Request For Quote: "Not illegal for individual players"

[gaming_mouse]

I've just spent the last half hour searching for links in the stickies that clarify, in specific language, that the UIGA targets only financial institutions, and does not make it illegal for individual players to place wagers in internet casinos or poker sites.

The best I have come up with is this quote from Prof. Rose's article (section 5365):

But it is limited to Internet gambling businesses, not mere players.

It would be nice, however, to have a similar -- even more straightforward -- quote from a source like the NY Times or CNN.

Any references would be appreciated.

thanks,
gm

[Sniper]

If you read the bill, you would see for yourself...

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
If you read the bill, you would see for yourself...

[/ QUOTE ]

I need a quote in very simple language that can be understood by anyone. The problem with the bill itself is that it's full of legal jargon that is indecipherable to most people. I am not trying to convince myself here -- I need something I can show some friends.

[Sniper]

g_m, your PM box is full.. you might want to clear some out... and please change your avatar, there have been some complaints about the use of the frist-nazi avatar... Thx.

[pandemonium]

[ QUOTE ]
First the bill does not make poker playing illegal on the Internet at a Federal Level...

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.pokerplayersalliance.org/alerts/Analysis_of_Internet_Gambling_Prohibition_Act.pdf


[ QUOTE ]

"The new law will be difficult to enforce. It only applies to "unlawful" gaming, but does not expand the reach of the main federal anti-gaming statute, the Wire Act. So, there are still going to be arguments that Internet poker, for example, is not unlawful."

"The new crime on transferring money only applies to gambling businesses," he continued. "Payment processors are not covered, unless prosecutors want to use theories of aiding and abetting. Treasury will make new regulations to require money transferors to identify and block funds from gambling sites. Banks will thus not be required to read paper checks."

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2006/10/nelson-rose-views-legislation.htm


[ QUOTE ]

Mere participation in online betting or wagering is not banned or criminalized by the Act.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/internet-gambling-ban.htm

[ QUOTE ]

The New Bill Does Not Make Online Poker Illegal

The new bill attempts to make it more difficult to get money into a site by forbidding US financial Institutions from funding the type of online gambling that the law has previously made illegal. The new bill does not make online gaming illegal where it was not illegal before. Let me say that again. The new bill does not make online gaming illegal. The bill merely speaks to the mechanism by which an online account is funded. I am going to spend some time in this article explaining the accuracy of my reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_news/article/3272

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
g_m, your PM box is full.. you might want to clear some out... and please change your avatar, there have been some complaints about the use of the frist-nazi avatar... Thx.

[/ QUOTE ]

PM box no longer full.

[gaming_mouse]

pandemomium

thanks for the links.

excellent first post /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[permafrost]

[ QUOTE ]
I've just spent the last half hour searching for links in the stickies that clarify, in specific language, that the UIGA targets only financial institutions, and does not make it illegal for individual players to place wagers in internet casinos or poker sites.

The best I have come up with is this quote from Prof. Rose's article (section 5365):

But it is limited to Internet gambling businesses, not mere players.

It would be nice, however, to have a similar -- even more straightforward -- quote from a source like the NY Times or CNN.

Any references would be appreciated.

thanks,
gm

[/ QUOTE ]


You do understand that something illegal has to happen before the new bill applies, right? If all was/is legal, the law has no effect.

The bill only adds enforcement and applies because of unlawful player/site actions.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]


You do understand that something illegal has to happen before the new bill applies, right? If all was/is legal, the law has no effect.

The bill only adds enforcement and applies because of unlawful player/site actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I do. My understanding was that the only the sites or payment processors would be doing anything illegal.

[ubercuber]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0#Post7721444 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7721444&an=0&page=0#Post 7721444)

Colemans says, for all practical purposes, what you are wanting... I think.

[permafrost]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


You do understand that something illegal has to happen before the new bill applies, right? If all was/is legal, the law has no effect.

The bill only adds enforcement and applies because of unlawful player/site actions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I do. My understanding was that the only the sites or payment processors would be doing anything illegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Look at the new law's name - Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. If the Feds can't find Unlawful Internet Gambling, this new law can't apply, nothing to enforce. If they do find instances of Unlawful Internet Gambling, and they will, they can apply new penalties and prohibitions to the illegal sites and recruit banks to block illegal payments (and likely more).

When Unlawful Internet Gambling is found, the new law does not change a player's legal status; the player's status was likely "unlawful" by State law already. The site's legal status goes from being "unlawful" by State law (and likely Federal) to a definite Federal offender.

A "payment processor" or bank is fine unless they get in the internet gambling business.

So when someone says
[ QUOTE ]
First the bill does not make poker playing illegal on the Internet at a Federal Level...


[/ QUOTE ] they are not admitting playing internet poker is illegal by longstanding State laws. Spin, half-truth, insincere, self-serving.

[gaming_mouse]

Permafrost,

My understanding was that the legality of online poker before this act was a legal gray area. I have definitely never heard anyone say that it was unquestionably illegal. It sounds like that is what you are saying. I am certainly no expert, but I think you are wrong on that point.