Possible new bill in Ontario, Canada?

[lefty123]

I cant find any mention of it on the net, but just now on Primetime sports on fan590, Bob MCcowan is talking about how the Premiere of Ontario might bring up a new bill next week that will make it illegal to show poker shows on TV that are sponsosred by a pay or free poker site. (along with illegal to have pokerroom ads in sports arenas, and even on clothing!)

Here in Canada we have CGTV (casino and games tv) channel that is basically 100% poker. lol

Anyone know anything else about this?

And I apologize if this is wrong forum, Im sort of a newbie.

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
I cant find any mention of it on the net, but just now on Primetime sports on fan590, Bob MCcowan is talking about how the Premiere of Ontario might bring up a new bill next week that will make it illegal to show poker shows on TV that are sponsosred by a pay or free poker site. (along with illegal to have pokerroom ads in sports arenas, and even on clothing!)

Here in Canada we have CGTV (casino and games tv) channel that is basically 100% poker. lol

Anyone know anything else about this?

And I apologize if this is wrong forum, Im sort of a newbie.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, I came here after I couldn't find anything on Google/News Canada about this as I just heard that rumor too. When I was back in Canada for thanksgiving I saw the CGTV for the first time and it was pretty neat. I liked the showing of online play and giving comments and what not.

Those rules remind me of rules that we debated in Canada in the mid 90s about banning cigarette advertising and sponsorship. I find it a real stretch to imagine that fee poker sites are like cigarettes.

[lefty123]

http://www.ontla.on.ca/documents/Bills/38_Parliament/session2/b060_e.htm

is the bill I believe. Cant see any mention of anything affecting playing online.

But might be the start of something... :/

[SumZero]

Man, that language is broad:

[ QUOTE ]
No person shall print, publish, distribute, broadcast or telecast an advertisement or representation that includes an Internet gaming business website address unless the person believes in good faith that the Internet gaming business has been licensed or otherwise granted permission to operate in Ontario or Canada by the appropriate authority and is operated in accordance with the applicable laws of Ontario and Canada.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder how that effects a Canadian website or Canaidan produced website (like a personal blog) that uses a banner ad system that sometimes serves gambling ads. Would that count as publishing or broadcasting the advertisment or representation?

[celiboy]

Seriously...WTF ever happened to personal freedom?? Is North America the new China?

[MikeRice]

[ QUOTE ]
I cant find any mention of it on the net, but just now on Primetime sports on fan590, Bob MCcowan is talking about how the Premiere of Ontario might bring up a new bill next week that will make it illegal to show poker shows on TV that are sponsosred by a pay or free poker site. (along with illegal to have pokerroom ads in sports arenas, and even on clothing!)

Here in Canada we have CGTV (casino and games tv) channel that is basically 100% poker. lol

Anyone know anything else about this?

And I apologize if this is wrong forum, Im sort of a newbie.

[/ QUOTE ]

So basically since TSN/SN/Score are located in TO that's all the poker on TV?

[Pog0]

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.ontla.on.ca/documents/Bills/38_Parliament/session2/b060_e.htm

is the bill I believe. Cant see any mention of anything affecting playing online.

But might be the start of something... :/

[/ QUOTE ]

They've stopped allowing cigarette companies from sponsoring sporting events and advertising several years ago but there are yet to be any talks of outlawing cigarettes.

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
otherwise granted permission to operate in Ontario or Canada by the appropriate authority

[/ QUOTE ]

Does the Kahnawake Gaming Commission count?

[Peter666]

Monkey see, monkey do.

[MiltonFriedman]

Thanks for the link.

I was about to pack my bags for the Great White North.

[MiltonFriedman]

Have you tried smoking in Toronto recently ? Cigarettes also cost about $11 a pack.

[Dadswell]

Bill 60 2006
An Act to amend the
Consumer Protection Act, 2002
to regulate the promotion
and advertising of Internet
gaming in Ontario

Note: This Act amends the Consumer Protection Act, 2002. For the legislative history of the Act, see Public Statutes - Detailed Legislative History on www.e-Laws.gov.on.ca. (http://www.e-Laws.gov.on.ca.)

Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Ontario, enacts as follows:

1. Section 1 of the Consumer Protection Act, 2002 is amended by adding the following definitions:

"Internet gaming business" means a business that offers to accept wagers or bets over the Internet on any game of chance or mixed skill and chance or on any contingency or event that is to take place inside or outside of Canada and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a business that offers to accept wagers or bets over the Internet relating to a casino game, card game, horse race, fight, match or sport; ("entreprise de jeux sur Internet")

"Internet gaming business website address" means a Uniform Resource Locator ("URL") or other standardized address name layout that allows an Internet user to locate an Internet gaming business on the World Wide Web, and includes any company or trade name that would constitute a valid URL of an Internet gaming business with the addition of one or more standard URL components, such as a server prefix, a domain suffix or extension or a country code; ("adresse du site Web d'une entreprise de jeux sur Internet")

2. The Act is amended by adding the following section:

Restrictions on advertising of certain Internet websites

17.1 No person shall print, publish, distribute, broadcast or telecast an advertisement or representation that includes an Internet gaming business website address unless the person believes in good faith that the Internet gaming business has been licensed or otherwise granted permission to operate in Ontario or Canada by the appropriate authority and is operated in accordance with the applicable laws of Ontario and Canada.

3. Subclause 116 (1) (b) (ii) of the Act is repealed and the following substituted:

(ii) in respect of Part III, Unfair Practices, subsection 17 (1) and section 17.1,

Commencement

4. This Act comes into force on the day it receives Royal Assent.

Short title

5. The short title of this Act is the Consumer Protection Amendment Act (Internet Gaming Advertising), 2006.

EXPLANATORY NOTE

The purpose of the Bill is to prohibit the advertising of website addresses of Internet gaming businesses unless the person doing the advertising believes in good faith that the Internet gaming business has been properly authorized to operate and is in fact being operated in accordance with Ontario and Canadian law.

[MiltonFriedman]

Advertising "an Internet gaming business website address " is all that is covered. Even if this passes, the ads would just change to say .... "Play at DutchBoydPoker" instead of "Play at DutchBoydPoker.com."

Also, it has not passed.

Finally, this is not the Criminal Code.

[blueodum]

Does the Kahnawake Gaming Commission count?

Oh yah, baby! Except is is based in Quebec, so Ontario law has no effect on it. It's the best safeguard for keeping online poker legal in Canada.

I heard analysis that this is a private members' bill. Unless it has the endorsement of the premier and his inner circle, it has no chance of passing.

[Peter666]

[ QUOTE ]
Does the Kahnawake Gaming Commission count?

Oh yah, baby! Except is is based in Quebec, so Ontario law has no effect on it. It's the best safeguard for keeping online poker legal in Canada.

I heard analysis that this is a private members' bill. Unless it has the endorsement of the premier and his inner circle, it has no chance of passing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anyone know who the private member is that brought this up, and their contact information?

[SumZero]

[ QUOTE ]
Advertising "an Internet gaming business website address " is all that is covered. Even if this passes, the ads would just change to say .... "Play at DutchBoydPoker" instead of "Play at DutchBoydPoker.com."

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you read:

[ QUOTE ]
includes any company or trade name that would constitute a valid URL of an Internet gaming business with the addition of one or more standard URL components, such as a server prefix, a domain suffix or extension or a country code;

[/ QUOTE ]

I.e., this covers any subset URL so leaving off an http:// or a www. or a .com doesn't fix it. However, having a DutchBoydPoker.net does fix it (since it is only additions that are covered) as long as the .net site doesn't allow online gaming INCLUDING FOR PLAY CHIPS.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, it has not passed.

Finally, this is not the Criminal Code.

[/ QUOTE ]

Indeed, this doesn't effect people's ability to play poker. Just to watch poker sponsored events.

[Instyle007]

Every Ontarioian (sp?) should contact the Premier via this link http://www.gov.on.ca/MGS/en/Contact/STEL01_045739.html to stop this idiotic law from getting put in place.

What's next?

[pyedog]

Does anyone know if this is actually true? I didn't know that online gambling was explicitly illegal in Canada.

"It is through such manoeuvring that the website operators continue to find ways to attract new customers, notwithstanding the fact that gambling on the Internet, or advertising of same, is strictly illegal in Canada."

from the Toronto Star today:
Province trying to close online gambling loophole (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1161079748185&call_pag eid=968256290204&col=968350116795)

[Pog0]

[ QUOTE ]
But this much is known: Revenues for the government-owned Ontario Lotteries and Gaming Corp. (operator of the province's casinos) were down $335 million over the past three years and is forecast to drop another $210 million this year.

Border-crossing problems, the high value of the Canadian dollar, and growing U.S. competition share the blame for this. But there is no doubt that Internet gambling is a factor in the steady decline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or maybe the population is just getting smarter?

[JOHNY CA$H]

If this is even remotely close to happening, Johnny is about to go apeshit.

[Razor]

Hon. Gerry Phillips, Minister of Government Services was on Prime Time Sports today and he said that the law is intended to put a stop to advertising of the real money sites and NOT the play money sites. If true, the bill would be much ado about nothing.

[TheZodiac]

Horseracing idiots are the ones lobbying for this, I will never ever goto Woodbine or any other Ontario race track again.

[Dadswell]

The laws in Canada are ancient dealing with this. It's already illegal to advertise for gaming in Canada. Being found gaming online is also illegal (so if police enter your house and find you sitting at your comp playing poker then you could get in trouble). However, it is not illegal to engage in gaming online. Also, it's illegal to play(not just to be found playing) any game of PURE chance online. However, BJ, poker, craps, etc. are okay.

[Bellagibro]

The damn Ontario government wants the whole gambling pie to themselves.

[ianlippert]

[ QUOTE ]
Being found gaming online is also illegal (so if police enter your house and find you sitting at your comp playing poker then you could get in trouble). However, it is not illegal to engage in gaming online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is gambling online illegal or not in Canada? Seems like you just contradicted yourself in this sentence. Someone at work told me it was, but I havent heard anything to think that it is.

[big e]

The important part of the act is --

unless the person believes in good faith that the Internet gaming business has been licensed or otherwise granted permission to operate in Ontario or Canada

--
This means they would have to rule against the license granted by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.


Also Durham and the GTA are having there local elections next month so this will be a good time to contact your local candidate and lobby for following the UK rules

[Dadswell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Being found gaming online is also illegal (so if police enter your house and find you sitting at your comp playing poker then you could get in trouble). However, it is not illegal to engage in gaming online.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is gambling online illegal or not in Canada? Seems like you just contradicted yourself in this sentence. Someone at work told me it was, but I havent heard anything to think that it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's illegal to play games of pure chance online. It's illegal to be found playing games of mixed skill/chance online. But it is ok to play games of mixed chance/skill as long as they don't actually see you doing it.

[Dadswell]

[ QUOTE ]
. . .
This means they would have to rule against the license granted by the Kahnawake Gaming Commission.


[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of lawyers feel that those licences are not even valid and what that reserve is doing is not leagal. They have never been challenged however so it's hard to say what would really happen.

[blueodum]

I know for a fact that home games are legal if there are no house fees or rake (in Ontario). Don't know if there actually is a fed law dealing with online gaming specifically.

[SWB]

[ QUOTE ]
Is gambling online illegal or not in Canada?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the gambling-related legislation in Canada is targeted at the house rather than the individual players (since that's mostly who makes the money and thus competes with government-sponsored gambling, of course). A player could in theory be charged with something like being found in a common gaming house, which is a summary offence (similar to a misdemeanor in the US).

Whether somebody would actually be charged with that... seems about as likely as somebody being charged with possession of a small amount of marijuana. Maybe if you really annoy the cop/crown/whatever, but mostly it's a charge that's only tacked on when you've got more serious problems.

[Mossberg]

So we're supposed to be paying our taxes on our winnings even though we're technically making illegal money? wtf?

[Dadswell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is gambling online illegal or not in Canada?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the gambling-related legislation in Canada is targeted at the house rather than the individual players (since that's mostly who makes the money and thus competes with government-sponsored gambling, of course). A player could in theory be charged with something like being found in a common gaming house, which is a summary offence (similar to a misdemeanor in the US).

Whether somebody would actually be charged with that... seems about as likely as somebody being charged with possession of a small amount of marijuana. Maybe if you really annoy the cop/crown/whatever, but mostly it's a charge that's only tacked on when you've got more serious problems.

[/ QUOTE ]


60 people were just charged with being found in a common gaming house in the rencent raids in Ottawa.

[DavidNB]

Even if you sell drugs, you are expected to pay taxes on your profit. If you don't they nab you for income tax evasion.

[ianlippert]

[ QUOTE ]
60 people were just charged with being found in a common gaming house in the rencent raids in Ottawa.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think underground clubs are illegal, but I'm not sure about online gambling. I mean isnt UB run out of canada?

[SWB]

[ QUOTE ]
60 people were just charged with being found in a common gaming house in the rencent raids in Ottawa.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I didn't phrase it clearly - I meant it was unlikely somebody playing online poker would be charged. Going to an unlicensed live club is riskier.

[atom_new]

Dadswell has it right.

Section 201(2)(a) of the criminal code states that you are committing a crime if you are:
"[...] found, without lawful excuse, in a common gaming house or common betting house"

Notice that for murder, the crime isn't "being found killing someone", it is simply killing someone else.(I'm simplifying it.)

That means that everyone can breath a bit easier.


Regardless, there will be changes happening throughout Canada on these issues, and we do need to promote change and to figure out what we want as players.
Comments to the government saying "We're a free country, so you can't outlaw gambling" just won't work, and won't be taken seriously.
If we want to make sure the government takes reasonable steps, we have to take an active role in the development of the legislation, and do more than just call up MPs and bitch about natural rights.

[PokeReader]

John Tuzyk, a Toronto-based lawyer with Blake Cassels & Graydon, said yesterday there is no court decision that addresses whether Internet gaming offered to Canadian residents from offshore sites would offend Criminal Code provisions. Nevertheless, "the weight of authority would suggest that, as the 'recipients' of the activity are in Canada, there is a risk that the courts may find that offering Internet gaming to Canadian residents constitutes a criminal offence committed in Canada," Mr. Tuzyk said.

Under the Criminal Code, most activities related to gambling are illegal -- although there are exceptions, most notably provinces' right to operate lottery games and casinos, and horse racing.

Net gambling cashed out
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/finan...09e&rfp=dta (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=f23d43ad-87ec-4fda-a52c-b88a6997e09e&rfp=dta)

A U.S. government crackdown earlier this month has left the online gambling industry in legal limbo. Canadian players must suddenly recalculate their odds
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news...01-89eab2508a2b (http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/technology/story.html?id=d3e65ded-d67f-464a-a901-89eab2508a2b)

The Kahnawake set-up's legality is not unchallenged. Under Canadian law, all forms of gambling are prohibited except specified activities such as horse-racing at approved sites and provincial lottery schemes. Provincial governments are also allowed to manage casinos, or can license charities to manage casinos -- and they can run such schemes "on or through a computer," says Lipton, the gaming lawyer. Governments in British Columbia and Atlantic Canada have recently introduced limited provincially sanctioned online games.

Kahnawake does not qualify for any of those exceptions, but the Mohawk argument is that gambling -- and, less convincingly, the regulation of gambling -- are among the ancient rites and traditions of their people, dating back hundreds of years before European contact. "They talk about a modified craps game, lacrosse, horseback racing, javelin throwing," says Lipton. From there to hosting Internet blackjack is clearly a leap. Federal and provincial attorneys-general have said that the situation is illegal. "But they haven't gone onto the land to stop it," Lipton says. "That may have something to do with the Oka crisis in 1990."

In March, Peterborough MPP Jeff Leal introduced a private member's bill in the Ontario Legislature to ban advertising for online gaming. "I'd read reports about college students in the United States racking up tremendous amounts of debt through online gaming," Leal says. "And here in Ontario we have bona fide gaming, whether it's horse-racing or slot machines, operated by the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation, and a number of people in that sector have seen dollars siphoned away to online gaming."

Despite the strict prohibition on unlicensed betting operations, there's no law against Canadians placing bets or playing games on offshore websites. But advertising to attract these customers faces several prohibitions under the Criminal Code of Canada: it is explicitly forbidden to advertise for games of chance and sports betting. Games of mixed skill and chance, on the other hand, are not addressed, says Lipton -- which is why ads for online poker sites are common.

[blueodum]

The poker sites that are advertised are almost all .net. As such they are free play sites and do not qualify as gambling. I don't see how a new law can possibly affect their legal status.

[fyodor]

Couple articles in today's Toronto Star:

Safe bet this is a dumb law (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1161294617393&call_pag eid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home)

Argos say ad ban would hurt (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1161294617871&call_pag eid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home)

We need more people in the media speaking up like this.

[zeitgeist]

Another nice op-ed in today's National Post. (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=1ab4c1a0-eaa8-4c23-9fd8-733830e4ebb0)

I particularly liked the line,

[ QUOTE ]
A government that suppresses Internet gambling while wallowing in Sport Select and scratch-card rakeoffs is scarcely any different, morally, from a mob putting the heat on a crosstown rival.

[/ QUOTE ]

[skp]

Sports Select: The odds that are paid are embarassingly bad. The government is basically stealing from unsophisticated bettors. You can also get tickets at any 7-11 store so you can bet that kids are betting and getting fleeced by these guys.

I forget the payout for a 3 game parlay but the posted amount is also misleading. These numbers could be wrong but for illustrative purposes, a 3 game parlay might be said to pay 5:1. So, you bet $2 and might think you win $10 if all 3 of your games come in. But when you go to cash in your winning ticket, you just get back $10 total. Your profit is only $8. So, they are really only offering you 4:1 on the 3 game parlay.

Now, I am not a sports bettor. Maybe this is standard even in Vegas.

[adios]

Amazing how when government gets into the gambling business they rape the customers the most.

[atom_new]

The reason they allow those games has nothing to do with the EV, it has to do with the risk of addiction.

[-Nemesis-]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously...WTF ever happened to personal freedom?? Is North America the new China?

[/ QUOTE ]

China is great, this is getting more like North Korea.