November surprise

[Grasshopp3r]

We are focusing on the wrong target in looking at the legislation on its face. What we need to do is to find out which congress members play online and then out them. It could also be staffers. Then, we can use that in the upcoming election. Hypocrisy is pretty effective for negative ads.

The very websites that were destroyed can sift through their records and correlate them to the congress IP addresses and known physical addresses. It is just a database task that can be completed easily.

[WLC4Ever]

And while we're at it, let's find out who's gay, and who ever smoked pot, and....man, get serious dude. There are plenty of legitimate things we can do to fight this...trying to "out" senators is a complete waste of time...if you really care, start writing letters, researching laws in your state, etc.

[TheBloke]

I think that could backfire hugely. It doesn't indicate that gambling should be legal, it just indicates that those people are hypocrites.

Kind of like outing a senator for taking drugs or abusing children - sure it screws them over, but it could never be used as an argument for legalising those things!

Plus no gambling site is going to release the names of their clientele, that would be a huge breach of privacy and a terrible, counter-productive precedent.

[WLC4Ever]

I'm really getting discouraged if this is the best we can muster...does anyone want to even try or are we content to call Frist a Nazi and move our money from site to site until there aren't any left?

[Grasshopp3r]

"Plus no gambling site is going to release the names of their clientele, that would be a huge breach of privacy and a terrible, counter-productive precedent."

Privacy? Please don't be naive.

Besides, who says that this has to be overtly traced back to the specific site? The site can leak screen names that can be correlated.

Once the target is identified, all that needs to be done is to ask the target if they ever played internet poker. They will deny it and bingo, there is your perjury charge. Just like the infamous "I did not have sex with that woman" quote from none other than Slick Willie himself.

[WLC4Ever]

[ QUOTE ]
Once the target is identified, all that needs to be done is to ask the target if they ever played internet poker. They will deny it and bingo, there is your perjury charge. Just like the infamous "I did not have sex with that woman" quote from none other than Slick Willie himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are serious, please never post on the legislation board again. Perjury charge...

[Grasshopp3r]

Every tactic needs to be employed.

If this is inappropriate for the legislation forum, the mods will delete it.

So far, you have simply dismissed this tactic out of hand, citing privacy concerns. Are you concerned with your privacy when you signed up at a poker site? Neteller? Linked it to your bank account?

This tactic requires the poker sites to violate the privacy of those congress members that have shafted us. Whose interests are you for? Us or them?

[WLC4Ever]

First of all, you can't commit perjury unless you're under oath, it doesn't count if some dude just walks up to you on the street. Second, the "us or them" atittude is useless at best, destructive at worst, third...aww hell, forget it

[Grasshopp3r]

[ QUOTE ]
And while we're at it, let's find out who's gay, and who ever smoked pot, and....man, get serious dude. There are plenty of legitimate things we can do to fight this...trying to "out" senators is a complete waste of time...if you really care, start writing letters, researching laws in your state, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, lets see if I can recall a few productive scandals that were preceded by "outing" of an elected official? Bill Clinton, the former New Jersey governor, Foley and the list goes on and on. Is perjury a felony? Yes. Is perjury the maximum damage that can be inflicted? No, the goal is to get them defeated in the election. Raw power, plain and simple. Fight fire with fire.

[WLC4Ever]

That's funny, I seem to Bill Clinton serving 8 years in office...

[Richas]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really getting discouraged if this is the best we can muster...does anyone want to even try or are we content to call Frist a Nazi and move our money from site to site until there aren't any left?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my idea then. I think that one of the side affects of this might be a growth of home games especially home games organised via the Internet. This is good not only because home games are fun (and potentially lucrative) but because they could help with local organisation once people know each other it is easier to organise. Lunch counter and bus protests have a tradition so why not the public charity poker event. The PPA could pick a good cause (I don't know maybe South African AIDS orphans after all even South Africa is free-er than the US) - 10% of the prize pool goes to them rather than as rake. We have public events all over the US in as public space as possible as demonstrations - and a huge online tournie in the evening too so all us foreigners can join in the fun.

Each city goes for local coverage, PPA and Pros the national. PPA collect the cash and write a big cheque in lieu of the taxes we could pay under regulation.

My suggestion for the date Friday 13th April to commemorate the bill signing last Friday 13th. Plenty of time to organise it and a chance to rerun the event on the real anniversary or rerun it on Friday 13th in July. Plenty of options for horror themed logos, caricatures of Frist et al for the posters. We can invite every elected official in the country to join in maybe a president or two - any and all the celebs we know love poker. Hats and buttons via FPP. Basically a huge PR push / protest /charity event.

[Richas]

I forgot the other reason for Friday 13th - It's skill not luck.

[Grasshopp3r]

I seem to recall him being impeached by the House and not convicted in the Senate. What damage did that do to him and his party? What if the scandal erupted in his first term? Would he be re-elected as an impeached president?

Lets get creative with our strategies. Partisan politics is a dirty game. The ends justifies the means, to quote another political maxim.

I would like to hear other analysis of this tactic. Also, would the poker sites who were most affected by this legislation be willing to leak names to the foreign press? They are not subject to US privacy laws.

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
Hypocrisy is pretty effective for negative ads.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol if only every hypocrite lost their election. Sorry this strategy is useless because pols and 95% of votes don't give a crap about this issue.

[Grasshopp3r]

How does it become an issue? Some enterprising Democrat makes it an issue. There are many subcommittees that have supoena powers. It obviously needs to be set up carefully, but the press is always hungry for scandals, especially if they can bash the right wing moralists.

[Ron Burgundy]

Here's what will happen if a poker site actually went along with your scheme:

1. Poker site finds a congressman who voted against the bill is playing on their site.

2. Poker site makes a public announcement that this congressman plays online poker, and is therefore a hypocrite and should either start supporting online gaming, or resign.

3. Congressman responds by calling a huge press conference. The press conference goes something like this: "Hello. I have an announcement to make. As you know, Pokersite.com has recently publicised my name in an attempt to change my views of online gambling and to expose me as a hypocrite. Well, the truth is... the t-t-truth is... (he starts getting choked up) I'm a g-g-gambling addict. I play poker for 6 hours a day. I can't stop. It has consumed my life. It's so easy to logon from my office or at home or anywhere and lose my paycheck (he pulls out his handkerchief to wipe the tears away and starts balling). I'm so ashamed and I need help. I voted for the UIGEA because I thought maybe then I wouldn't be able to play poker online, and I wouldn't ever have to admit my problem."

4. The press conference is the biggest news story of the week. It's the headline of every major newspaper. The only thing the news/talk shows talk about for several days after is "OMG this onling gambling is destroying lives, it must be stopped. If it can happen to a member of congress, it could hapeen to anyone! People all over America are clicking their mouse and losing their house!"

5. We're all [censored] because of your brilliant idea. Thx.

[ericicecream]

[ QUOTE ]
What we need to do is to find out which congress members play online and then out them. It could also be staffers.

[/ QUOTE ]

This in itself sounds hypocritical. You want to find someone on the staff who enjoys online poker like you and I do, and you want to out them so that they get fired from their job? Will this really make you somehow feel better?

Or, you prefer to "out" a congressman who plays online? How about you find a congressman who plays online and make sure he gets re-elected? Surely that will help more in the long run.

[Grasshopp3r]

That press conference would be political suicide. So you think that the public would then re-elect a gambling addict? It is all about them getting re-elected. That is what they fear.

[Ron Burgundy]

[ QUOTE ]
That press conference would be political suicide. So you think that the public would then re-elect a gambling addict? It is all about them getting re-elected. That is what they fear.

[/ QUOTE ]

And what if he's on his last term and wouldn't get re-elected, or isn't planning on running again?

[Grasshopp3r]

[/ QUOTE ]
How about you find a congressman who plays online and make sure he gets re-elected? Surely that will help more in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had not thought of that aspect. That is more like the carrot or the stick approach. It would be useful to identify where the potential levers may be among the congress. This idea could also be moot if there are not any of them that have played online.

[Richas]

[ QUOTE ]

I would like to hear other analysis of this tactic. Also, would the poker sites who were most affected by this legislation be willing to leak names to the foreign press? They are not subject to US privacy laws.

[/ QUOTE ]

because they are respectable sites with privacy policies and they want people to sign up to play with them without being afraid that their hobby is about to be public domain information. Besides which what is to stop your hypocrite claiming he signed up to be more informed about what he was legislating on.

Please try to remember we are the good guys. we are supposed to be better than this.

[craig]

[ QUOTE ]
Some enterprising Democrat makes it an issue

[/ QUOTE ]

There have been numerous opportunities to do this on things people 'care' about. Why would they pick poker for their battle? Is that going to be the deciding factor in an election? I am not trying to be negative, because I don't think people are powerless, but by attempting the same thing that has been attempted before, and expecting that things will be different, is pretty silly. On top of that, even if said enterprising democrat was elected, who's to say that he could convince congress or that they would even show up to vote.

[Grasshopp3r]

We need to be able to multiply our impact, because we do not have the numbers to have any impact. There are some close elections out there and this could be the issue that sways an election.

[Grasshopp3r]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Please try to remember we are the good guys. we are supposed to be better than this.

[/ QUOTE ]

We lost. We need to regain the initiative and fight to win.

Good or bad is a matter of your side of the issue. Is Frist or Kyl good or bad?

As far as privacy issues, there are no guarantees. Lets suppose that Party Poker does indeed go under. Would someone buy their database of player names? Would Party destroy that data? There have been other examples of dot com bankruptcies that have resulted in the sale of customer data. If it is an asset, it will be sold.

[omgwtf]

To be followed by the January surprise...

After seeing some of their peers villified and publicly crucified for playing poker online, Congress makes it a top priority to close the loopholes in the recent gambling legislation, specifically cracking down on online poker.

Oh, and keep calling that all in on the river while holding 22 when the board reads AAKKQ.

[roxtar]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really getting discouraged if this is the best we can muster...does anyone want to even try or are we content to call Frist a Nazi and move our money from site to site until there aren't any left?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure seems that way don't it?

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
How does it become an issue?

[/ QUOTE ]

Never going to happen, sorry.

[ QUOTE ]
Some enterprising Democrat makes it an issue. There are many subcommittees that have supoena powers. It obviously needs to be set up carefully, but the press is always hungry for scandals, especially if they can bash the right wing moralists.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that playing poker on the internet isn't having sex chats with underage boys.