Official Poker Site/Network Tracking thread

[Sniper]

There has been alot of speculation on how the legislation will impact the number of players on each site/network... Time to start reviewing the facts...

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/7880/sites1013fd3.jpg


Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.

As discussed in the Party Lockdown (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7648811) thread, it may take a while for any player shift to show up in the stats.

[MiJ305]

it looks good for online poker , only a small dip (mostly from party)...its not looking good for party tho ...

[The_Scout]

There's a slight problem with your comparison, in that you're comparing a Friday to other weekdays. Weekends (Friday-Sunday) have lower peaks than weekdays.

Here's what I posted in another thread.

[ QUOTE ]

Total peak players for the last 5 Fridays:

Date -- Players

9/8 -- 60254
9/15 -- 59293
9/22 -- 59514
9/29 -- 60250 (Fristy Friday, the bill is passed)
10/6 -- 54594
10/13 -- 52313

We're only down about 13% from pre-ban levels, but there's a lot more realignment to come.


[/ QUOTE ]

[BluffTHIS!]

Scout,

Regarding those Friday figures, yesterday included 10 hours or so from midnight to 10a of US players playing on party didn't it? So next Friday's figure would seem to be the best barometer yet of the numbers for both party and overall wouldn't it? Also since party has taken the step of only allowing 6 tables per player now to curtail all the canadians and euros who played more, there should be a further drop in table & player figures it would seem come next Friday.

Also I would like to ask you whether your policy is to only include a new site in your tracking by their request or not. I was wondering if some smaller sites just didn't want it known how small they were and purposefully avoid trying to have comparisons made?

BTW, great site you've got and keep up the good work.

[Sniper]

Thanks scout... I'm aware that there is a day of week bias, which is why I plan to update this thread for a while, and why I put in the Sept max 24h peaks for comparison/baseline.

However, at the moment, the impact (both positive and negative) on individual poker sites is clearly not as great, as many predicted... we will see how this plays out in the days/weeks ahead...

As you said... "there's alot more realignment to come"...

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding those Friday figures, yesterday included 10 hours or so from midnight to 10a of US players playing on party didn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bluff,

Scout's days are based on a west coast day... so technically 3a-10a ET were included... however, the Party 24h peak was hit at 2:03pm PT... so it is solid.

[Artsemis]

Yeah yesterday is a bad example. Use today's data with past Saturdays for something more accurate -- then again in about a week to see where most of the fishies have settled in at.

[Someone]

a daily updated graph with a moving 7-day average might be the the easiest...

[Redd]

Sniper, is the September 24h Peak a specific day in Sept, or the highest volume in any contiguous 24 hours in the entire month?

[Xhad]

I would give it at least a few weeks before trying to gauge the effect on sites that didn't close to the US, between cashouts/transfers, people getting accustomed to new software, and people who didn't know at first that other sites were staying open.

[Someone]

very true. but there's a big downswing for Party/Paradise and a well notable upswing for Full Tilt which are quite visible already.

[[censored]]

have we confirmed that Absolute has purchased and will be merging with UB?

If so that sets them up to be a major player in the post party world

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Sniper, is the September 24h Peak a specific day in Sept, or the highest volume in any contiguous 24 hours in the entire month?

[/ QUOTE ]

The Sept 24h peak, represents the max 24h peak at each individual poker site for the month of September... so, the Sept total is not a great (but still ok) baseline when compared to other totals, but it a great baseline for each of the individual sites, imo.

It is worth noting that aside from a day of the week bias, poker sites also have seasonal/monthly traffic patterns...

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding those Friday figures, yesterday included 10 hours or so from midnight to 10a of US players playing on party didn't it? So next Friday's figure would seem to be the best barometer yet of the numbers for both party and overall wouldn't it?

[/ QUOTE ]
As Sniper noted, the peak data from Friday is solid because Party was up and running well before peak Euro time.

A better barometer would be a 7-day average taken about 10-14 days from now, after people have had a chance to react and hopefully find new sites to play at. Compare that to a 7-day average from September and you'd have a good idea of the change in the overall size of the market.

[ QUOTE ]
Also I would like to ask you whether your policy is to only include a new site in your tracking by their request or not. I was wondering if some smaller sites just didn't want it known how small they were and purposefully avoid trying to have comparisons made?

[/ QUOTE ]
No site has ever objected to our coverage, at least not to us. Some have actually approached us asking to be added. We'll usually make a deal with the smaller sites to get them on the list.

[ QUOTE ]
BTW, great site you've got and keep up the good work.

[/ QUOTE ]
TYVM. There are many more things we'd like to do with the site, so it will continue to improve over time.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
a daily updated graph with a moving 7-day average might be the the easiest...

[/ QUOTE ]

If I can get a graph to show something better than a big block of lines stacked between 1K-3K, I'll post a graph once we have some more data...

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
have we confirmed that Absolute has purchased and will be merging with UB?

If so that sets them up to be a major player in the post party world

[/ QUOTE ]

As I understand it, there have been discussions, but no confirmation on a deal...

[celiboy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
have we confirmed that Absolute has purchased and will be merging with UB?

If so that sets them up to be a major player in the post party world

[/ QUOTE ]

As I understand it, there have been discussions, but no confirmation on a deal...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the first I've heard of this...any link?

[Ungoliant]

What happened to the reports that Party would lose roughly 80% of their player base when the U.S. got blocked? It seems to me that rumors of Party's imminent demise were greatly exaggerated. No doubt, Party's taken a huge hit and they'll never be #1 again unless they re-enter the U.S. market, but they've been sitting comfortably in 2nd place for the past 2 days and their peak numbers are still roughly half of what they were pre-ban.

It will certainly take time to see the upswing at Stars and FullTilt, but Party's numbers won't be dropping any further than they are now, unless non-U.S. players voluntarily start leaving. But with Party still sitting as the #2 poker site out there, I don't see a mass exodus happening. It's certainly not the doomsday scenario some were predicting, where they would lose 80% of their business instantly and the rest would bail out shortly thereafter due to poor game selection.

[Mr. Orange]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
have we confirmed that Absolute has purchased and will be merging with UB?

If so that sets them up to be a major player in the post party world

[/ QUOTE ]

As I understand it, there have been discussions, but no confirmation on a deal...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the first I've heard of this...any link?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7653363 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=inet&Number=7653363&Searc hpage=1&Main=7652984&Words=+Mr.+Orange&topic=&Sear ch=true#Post7653363)

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to the reports that Party would lose roughly 80% of their player base when the U.S. got blocked? It seems to me that rumors of Party's imminent demise were greatly exaggerated. No doubt, Party's taken a huge hit and they'll never be #1 again unless they re-enter the U.S. market, but they've been sitting comfortably in 2nd place for the past 2 days and their peak numbers are still roughly half of what they were pre-ban.

[/ QUOTE ]


They've gone from a peak of 16K earlier in the year to 6.5K now, which is a 60% loss. While that is distorted somewhat no doubt by the figures varying during the year for all sites with the seasons, nonetheless they seem to have lost around 1/2 their player base at least, even though that still leaves them in 2nd place.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7653363 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=inet&Number=7653363&Searc hpage=1&Main=7652984&Words=+Mr.+Orange&topic=&Sear ch=true#Post7653363)

[/ QUOTE ]
There is no real information concerning AP in this link. Excapsa was purchased by the parent of bet21.com, one of its own skins.

I call BS on the UB-AP merger until someone produces an actual source.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to the reports that Party would lose roughly 80% of their player base when the U.S. got blocked?

[/ QUOTE ]
80% was revenue, not poker players. Perhaps the biggest hit will be in other games.

[BluffTHIS!]

They may not have been able to promote their casino and other games businesses to europe like they did with poker, so they might indeed have been even more top-heavy with US customers there.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What happened to the reports that Party would lose roughly 80% of their player base when the U.S. got blocked?

[/ QUOTE ]
80% was revenue, not poker players. Perhaps the biggest hit will be in other games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stellar... the mass of US players were spending less than $20/night on MTT donkfests /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7653363 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=inet&Number=7653363&Searc hpage=1&Main=7652984&Words=+Mr.+Orange&topic=&Sear ch=true#Post7653363)

[/ QUOTE ]
There is no real information concerning AP in this link. Excapsa was purchased by the parent of bet21.com, one of its own skins.

I call BS on the UB-AP merger until someone produces an actual source.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct, a possible UB-AP merger is a seperate issue from that announcement.

[Self Made]

AP/UB talk was just an error, not even a rumor, as far as I can tell. No one's cited a source yet. BlastOff/Bet21 bought Exapsa's assets.

Re the small rooms, I believe Poker.com is the largest not covered by PokerSiteScout. It's just smaller than WPEX. Mansion is close too.

[kslghost]

Party's got a good European base that will keep that number around 5-6 thousand every day during European hours. During American hours, it hit up to 13k, so if you imagine that there are about 20k people cycling around max times, about 1/3 of their base is European (and Canadaian of course).

So yea, they immediately lost 66% of their base, even though the numbers dropped only by about 40%.

[StellarWind]

These number show the peak and not the average.

Suppose Jimmy's Poker Shack has 10 players during U.S. prime time and 5 players during European prime time. After Jimmy pulls out he still has 5 players during Euro prime but 0 players during U.S. prime time.

PokerSiteScout would tell you that Jimmy's peak has dropped by 50%. That's true, but it is equally true that Jimmy has actually lost 2/3 of his business.

PokerSiteScout 24-hour maximums are always going to overrate the size of Euro-centric sites compared to sites with successful worldwide diversification. It's the nature of the method. It's why networks like Tain that have no actual players rank so highly /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

PokerSiteScout would be much more useful if it published average traffic statistics and ranked accordingly. For example add up 24 hourly measurements taken during a day and divide by 24.

[Self Made]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerSiteScout would be much more useful if it published average traffic statistics and ranked accordingly. For example add up 24 hourly measurements taken during a day and divide by 24.

[/ QUOTE ]

It might be even more useful if you could see both peak US-time and peak Euro-time traffic.

[Botchman]

Judging by the number of posts I've seen the last couple of days saying "I can't play more", "Ohhh Nooo", "We are Done","Where do we go",it looks like the overall volume of traffic will be down quite a bit, Some people think to come to forums like this and ask what the deal is but I'd say for every one that does theres at least 10 that won't be playing any more because either they are scared and or think it is no longer possible for them to play.

[Sniper]

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4453/sites101406at8.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Also added 7 day avg, and a few more days
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerSiteScout would be much more useful if it published average traffic statistics and ranked accordingly. For example add up 24 hourly measurements taken during a day and divide by 24.


[/ QUOTE ]

Stellar, I agree with this... it would be great if Scout stored all the raw data and could calculate a daily average traffic based on all the data points collected (supposedly its polling data every 10 minutes).

Scout, is it possible for you to enhance the site with this info?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post7653363 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=inet&Number=7653363&Searc hpage=1&Main=7652984&Words=+Mr.+Orange&topic=&Sear ch=true#Post7653363)

[/ QUOTE ]
There is no real information concerning AP in this link. Excapsa was purchased by the parent of bet21.com, one of its own skins.

I call BS on the UB-AP merger until someone produces an actual source.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK.. clarification that Blast Off = AP (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=7673637)

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerSiteScout would be much more useful if it published average traffic statistics and ranked accordingly. For example add up 24 hourly measurements taken during a day and divide by 24.


[/ QUOTE ]

Stellar, I agree with this... it would be great if Scout stored all the raw data and could calculate a daily average traffic based on all the data points collected (supposedly its polling data every 10 minutes).

Scout, is it possible for you to enhance the site with this info?

[/ QUOTE ]
We're planning to add a column to the homepage for a 7-day moving average. Look for it in the not-too-distant future.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerSiteScout would be much more useful if it published average traffic statistics and ranked accordingly. For example add up 24 hourly measurements taken during a day and divide by 24.


[/ QUOTE ]

Stellar, I agree with this... it would be great if Scout stored all the raw data and could calculate a daily average traffic based on all the data points collected (supposedly its polling data every 10 minutes).

Scout, is it possible for you to enhance the site with this info?

[/ QUOTE ]
We're planning to add a column to the homepage for a 7-day moving average. Look for it in the not-too-distant future.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Scout, I think that will be a great addition... any thought to also adding a average of each days data points?

[Sciolist]

(This is only the top 15 sites, I'm not bothering tracking the others too carefully)

http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2006/46962-Total%20Market%2015th%20October.JPG

http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2006/46961-Market%20Share%20Oct%2015th.JPG

All of this is from PokerSiteScout

[Greg Miller]

[ QUOTE ]

PokerSiteScout 24-hour maximums are always going to overrate the size of Euro-centric sites compared to sites with successful worldwide diversification. It's the nature of the method. It's why networks like Tain that have no actual players rank so highly /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, when Tribeca announced they were taking over Tain, I started paying more attention to them and noticed they have a very stable player base throughout the day compared to sites ranked above them, like Crypto, Microgaming, etc. Add in the Tain players and the simple fact that they're the only real choice for U.S.-facing skins that want to switch networks (unless Excapsa starts taking U.S. skins again and treats them reasonably this time), and Tribeca could be the company that benefits the most from the UIGEA situation.

Another thing I noticed was that traffic dropped across the board over friday and saturday, but everyone except OnGame increased their peak on sunday. OnGame continues to plummet and Paradise will again since they're still peaking during U.S. hours right now.

[Sniper]

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/1500/sites101506qu7.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[Sniper]

Sciolist... any chance we can get you to reveal some rough generic info on the change in tournament traffic at Stars?

Thanks for posting the graphs...

[BluffTHIS!]

Sniper,

In a few days or weeks from now, after the pre-ban party numbers fall out of a 1 or 2 week moving average, the real results will be known. The moving average in your spreadsheet for party understates how many player that they have lost.

[Sniper]

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/531/sites101606oc2.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
Sciolist... any chance we can get you to reveal some rough generic info on the change in tournament traffic at Stars?

Thanks for posting the graphs...

[/ QUOTE ]
Afraid I can't post anything that's not in the public domain already. It's possible that you can get this data from pokerdb or sharkscope or somewhere though...

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sciolist... any chance we can get you to reveal some rough generic info on the change in tournament traffic at Stars?

Thanks for posting the graphs...

[/ QUOTE ]
Afraid I can't post anything that's not in the public domain already. It's possible that you can get this data from pokerdb or sharkscope or somewhere though...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I figured, but it never hurts to ask /images/graemlins/wink.gif

edit... oops (thx)

[2461Badugi]

[ QUOTE ]

btw, From pokerdb website...
PokerDB.com
PokerDB is closed.
Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want thepokerdb.com

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Sniper,

In a few days or weeks from now, after the pre-ban party numbers fall out of a 1 or 2 week moving average, the real results will be known. The moving average in your spreadsheet for party understates how many player that they have lost.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the nature of the 7day average... it will self correct by the end of the week /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sciolist... any chance we can get you to reveal some rough generic info on the change in tournament traffic at Stars?
Thanks for posting the graphs...

[/ QUOTE ]
Afraid I can't post anything that's not in the public domain already. It's possible that you can get this data from pokerdb or sharkscope or somewhere though...

[/ QUOTE ]
Let me know if you want me to run some custom reports from thepokerdb on MTT traffic. I'll do my best to accomodate.

[Utah]

Is this data suggesting that Party Poker is still doing well and is not in dire straits? The 6K range still puts in comfortably in second place.

[The_Scout]

Here are some average player counts since Sept. 1. I picked the 4 most interesting sites (IMO) so as not to clutter up the graph.

http://www.pokersitescout.com/images/PostBanComparison1.gif

[MannyIsGod]

It seems Full Tilt has the most conistent growth this month.

[kidpokeher]

Why is Full Tilt the apparent beneficiary? Rakeback and bonus comes to mind but UB offers the same thing yet their subscriber base seems relatively unchanged. Same with the other sites.

[MannyIsGod]

I think Full Tilt has done the best job marketing so far. But its early. Also, Full Tilt has an interface that is more attractive to the avg player, IMO. Through in the the pros, and its pretty easy to see why they're doing better than the other mid sized sites.

[Ron Burgundy]

It's all about marketing. How many giant UB logos do you see on the top pros on TV? Hellmuth is the only one I can think of.

UB doesn't even have commercials. FT has a commercial on almost every break of almost every poker show.

[kidpokeher]

Interesting. I figured FT had the edge in advertising but I haven't paid a lot of attention to poker shows. Have any "we're still open to the US..." ads started running?

All that said, why isn't Stars growing? Seems to me they had more ads than FT.

[5thStreetHog]

[ QUOTE ]
All that said, why isn't Stars growing? Seems to me they had more ads than FT.

[/ QUOTE ]Disagree,FT has been by far the most aggressive in marketing their site,more commercials, more connection with well known players ,not to mention a weekly poker show that served as a great advertisement for their site(learn from the pro`s)and televised FT tourny`s to cap it off.

[Sniper]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7178/sites101706of3.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[mttsemipro]

Yeah, i used to play just on PP and i found the FT software to be the easiest to adjust to because they are extremely similar to pp. For instance, the raise amounts on FT includes the amount ur calling like on pp, but UB is different. So moost people who were just on pp and now tried both sites will go to FT.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me know if you want me to run some custom reports from thepokerdb on MTT traffic. I'll do my best to accomodate.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be great if you could post 2 graphs... one of total MTT seats (in your records) in use each day for each site you cover for Sept-Oct; and one for Total Prize Pools each day for each site you cover for Sept-Oct.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this data suggesting that Party Poker is still doing well and is not in dire straits? The 6K range still puts in comfortably in second place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Utah, yes, Party will continue to do fine... its non-US player base was larger than the other sites total players (with the possible exception of stars), prior to the legislation.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Here are some average player counts since Sept. 1. I picked the 4 most interesting sites (IMO) so as not to clutter up the graph.

http://www.pokersitescout.com/images/PostBanComparison1.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Thx Scout..

One of the interesting things this graphs brings to light, is that players started to stop playing at Party, immediately following the passing of the legislation and their statement that they were pulling out. Of course that trend jumped when they actually locked out players after the Preident signed the bill.

While on the other hand, as others have noted, Full Tilt is clearly benefitting from the bill, and started picking up players from the point the legislation passed.

Stars did not start to pick up players until it released its statement and the President signed the bill. By delaying putting out a statement until the last minute, Stars may have as a result ceded the early switchers to FT.

[Sniper]

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6430/sites101806ym3.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Let me know if you want me to run some custom reports from thepokerdb on MTT traffic. I'll do my best to accomodate.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be great if you could post 2 graphs... one of total MTT seats (in your records) in use each day for each site you cover for Sept-Oct; and one for Total Prize Pools each day for each site you cover for Sept-Oct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really sure of the best way to graph this... I'll post the numbers and let someone else use Excel to turn it into a graph.

Prizepools (note UB data not there for the 17th):

FTP Stars* Party UB
17-Oct-06 365,758 971,753 227,808
16-Oct-06 399,169 984,742 234,415 206,003
15-Oct-06 1,028,914 2,285,687 157,167 421,193
14-Oct-06 461,303 1,032,440 265,437 231,098
13-Oct-06 334,224 904,498 314,192 205,941
12-Oct-06 330,161 808,134 1,091,156 179,759
11-Oct-06 327,913 958,013 1,035,157 198,514
10-Oct-06 328,910 874,524 1,104,168 174,347
9-Oct-06 333,063 915,773 1,143,666 219,692
8-Oct-06 604,412 2,057,683 2,194,851 403,042
7-Oct-06 362,747 962,780 1,325,816 222,558
6-Oct-06 266,855 829,359 1,138,877 195,245
5-Oct-06 316,896 835,645 1,074,439 180,895
4-Oct-06 303,524 919,471 1,033,512 197,474
3-Oct-06 335,550 873,085 1,137,396 172,431
2-Oct-06 327,632 873,052 1,156,144 195,093
1-Oct-06 607,284 7,636,513 2,323,430 395,302
30-Sep-06 390,288 2,625,361 1,519,103 211,193
29-Sep-06 290,938 1,344,387 1,275,404 185,675
28-Sep-06 315,140 1,101,831 1,180,452 169,761
27-Sep-06 312,496 1,481,622 967,928 188,162
26-Sep-06 285,931 1,289,069 1,099,558 163,627
25-Sep-06 220,856 1,071,305 1,135,882 182,369
24-Sep-06 629,231 3,593,096 2,326,986 403,684
23-Sep-06 402,697 1,843,679 1,475,333 213,732
22-Sep-06 300,700 1,237,537 1,258,244 193,603
21-Sep-06 309,562 2,108,178 1,158,776 179,185
20-Sep-06 300,252 1,427,118 1,145,043 191,330
19-Sep-06 332,055 1,292,424 1,220,685 170,869
18-Sep-06 340,515 1,611,690 1,182,220 195,202
17-Sep-06 918,251 3,167,326 2,326,215 392,381
16-Sep-06 403,548 1,146,205 1,453,576 472,107
15-Sep-06 307,140 797,784 1,292,699 199,435
14-Sep-06 324,082 747,701 1,178,085 203,821
13-Sep-06 312,925 851,819 1,112,860 201,516
12-Sep-06 335,082 745,619 1,119,539 196,498
11-Sep-06 336,182 839,281 1,187,364 209,289
10-Sep-06 625,994 2,062,518 2,319,473 409,191
9-Sep-06 405,918 864,912 1,492,315 269,421
8-Sep-06 284,114 804,461 1,296,865 202,699
7-Sep-06 295,294 691,458 858,126 206,305
6-Sep-06 305,250 878,358 975,014 207,104
5-Sep-06 351,246 804,822 1,218,984 197,182
4-Sep-06 446,657 919,921 1,481,296 256,976
3-Sep-06 626,853 2,105,687 2,403,948 420,230
2-Sep-06 410,124 913,163 1,550,716 280,838
1-Sep-06 314,047 797,022 1,327,419 28,060
31-Aug-06 317,850 777,773 1,227,995 210,590
30-Aug-06 322,700 907,062 1,241,301 241,591
29-Aug-06 358,751 820,140 1,301,530 447,702
28-Aug-06 376,478 846,101 1,251,725 284,541
27-Aug-06 710,199 2,210,465 2,592,555 204,347
26-Aug-06 425,810 901,309 1,657,002 208,568
25-Aug-06 301,216 782,909 1,314,444 206,275
24-Aug-06 341,932 763,534 1,229,354 202,144
23-Aug-06 319,244 874,371 1,157,480 138,065
22-Aug-06 349,478 814,424 1,265,749 434,678
21-Aug-06 364,415 833,439 1,226,918 323,536

*Doesn't include satellite prizepools

[N 82 50 24]

was about to post entrants, but i just noticed my title was changed ... wtf? mods don't even PM you when they do that? [censored] this, lol

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
was about to post entrants, but i just noticed my title was changed ... wtf? mods don't even PM you when they do that? [censored] this, lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll try to find out who made the change...

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
was about to post entrants, but i just noticed my title was changed ... wtf? mods don't even PM you when they do that? [censored] this, lol

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll try to find out who made the change...

[/ QUOTE ]
"operator" doesn't even make sense ... it only worked in the context of my old title

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this data suggesting that Party Poker is still doing well and is not in dire straits? The 6K range still puts in comfortably in second place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Utah, yes, Party will continue to do fine... its non-US player base was larger than the other sites total players (with the possible exception of stars), prior to the legislation.

[/ QUOTE ]

PartyGaming released 3rd Qtr financial statements today, which included detailed information on their non-US business... see this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7737287)

[metsandfinsfan]

people that had unmentionable on Party probably already had an account on Stars. They may not have had an acct on tilt so they signed up for rakeback on tilt so tilt is showing the biggest increase at the moment

[Sniper]

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/4686/mtt101606th5.jpg

[Cooder]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll post the numbers and let someone else use Excel to turn it into a graph.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see Sniper beat me to it. I'll post mine anyway. Note: On 1 Oct, Stars had a $7 million day that pushed the other data to the bottom of the chart, so I changed that day to $3 million. I've included a link to my spreadsheet if someone wants to play with it.

http://mysite.verizon.net/resq0cg8/prize.jpg


Click here for the Prize Pool Excel Spreadsheet (http://mysite.verizon.net/resq0cg8/prizes.xls)

[Sniper]

Cooder, thanks for posting the 2nd graph, which is the daily one...

[Sniper]

oops.. label on my last graph should read as starting from Aug 21, not Sept...

[Sniper]

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/9106/sites101906ng5.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[N 82 50 24]

Nice graphs guys. I especially like Sniper's 7-day average technique. Also, thanks for helping me out with the title-changing issue, I received a PM with the reason and I understand why it was changed.

Anyway, here are the total entrant daily numbers:

FTP Stars* Party UB
18-Oct-06 16,755 48,574 14,285 10,620
17-Oct-06 13,877 53,008 14,967 10,550
16-Oct-06 15,023 51,627 14,240 10,744
15-Oct-06 20,400 58,949 11,285 14,440
14-Oct-06 17,446 49,497 16,815 11,902
13-Oct-06 14,165 49,854 16,019 11,215
12-Oct-06 12,301 47,709 57,789 10,287
11-Oct-06 14,201 47,655 58,308 10,547
10-Oct-06 13,229 49,643 58,672 9,668
9-Oct-06 12,328 50,278 62,122 10,913
8-Oct-06 14,918 55,490 72,488 13,527
7-Oct-06 13,285 47,424 67,261 11,881
6-Oct-06 11,937 49,165 62,977 10,773
5-Oct-06 12,832 50,719 59,812 10,058
4-Oct-06 13,313 48,372 61,464 10,192
3-Oct-06 13,443 51,691 64,399 9,771
2-Oct-06 12,939 51,291 65,794 10,387
1-Oct-06 16,761 54,899 80,086 13,462
30-Sep-06 15,888 50,668 76,128 11,823
29-Sep-06 13,464 52,034 69,626 10,717
28-Sep-06 14,119 50,793 65,499 9,864
27-Sep-06 14,129 49,350 56,205 10,091
26-Sep-06 11,189 51,192 60,323 8,846
25-Sep-06 9,667 49,680 62,472 10,063
24-Sep-06 18,326 55,026 76,739 14,010
23-Sep-06 16,427 51,418 72,666 12,080
22-Sep-06 13,962 51,598 66,584 11,278
21-Sep-06 13,127 50,809 62,289 10,103
20-Sep-06 13,855 48,642 63,359 10,422
19-Sep-06 13,867 51,813 64,254 9,752
18-Sep-06 13,074 48,871 63,295 10,189
17-Sep-06 17,716 53,323 76,433 13,362
16-Sep-06 15,841 46,507 70,564 11,986
15-Sep-06 13,773 47,431 68,434 10,659
14-Sep-06 13,573 47,325 64,006 9,842
13-Sep-06 14,309 45,132 63,719 10,410
12-Sep-06 13,666 46,392 59,563 9,833
11-Sep-06 12,863 45,583 63,189 10,379
10-Sep-06 17,709 52,676 76,318 13,935
9-Sep-06 16,186 43,229 73,269 12,532
8-Sep-06 12,696 44,972 68,479 11,030
7-Sep-06 12,213 41,159 47,869 10,033
6-Sep-06 13,019 43,622 52,795 10,524
5-Sep-06 14,093 46,539 65,489 9,657
4-Sep-06 17,975 52,658 78,699 12,977
3-Sep-06 18,184 54,224 82,264 14,292
2-Sep-06 16,312 45,185 75,451 12,331
30-Aug-06 13,978 45,289 69,372 2,371
29-Aug-06 13,547 46,376 66,176 10,835
28-Aug-06 14,815 44,811 69,958 11,246
27-Aug-06 14,624 47,565 70,435 15,872
26-Aug-06 14,247 46,953 68,004 12,959
25-Aug-06 19,763 51,882 87,131 11,563
24-Aug-06 16,661 44,046 77,888 11,044
23-Aug-06 13,902 45,098 70,952 11,012
22-Aug-06 14,312 46,919 67,942 10,355
21-Aug-06 14,555 44,088 69,145 7,838
20-Aug-06 14,458 46,830 66,042 15,550

* Doesn't include satellites

[N 82 50 24]

Also, I'd be happy to re-run this stuff in a month along with anything else you guys would like to see. I expect to see a lot more player movement soon.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice graphs guys. I especially like Sniper's 7-day average technique. Also, thanks for helping me out with the title-changing issue, I received a PM with the reason and I understand why it was changed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are doing all the hard work collecting the data...

Your welcome on the title-change issue... sometimes mods forget to send out PMs when they do stuff... send me a PM if you'd like it changed to something else.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I'd be happy to re-run this stuff in a month along with anything else you guys would like to see. I expect to see a lot more player movement soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be great!

[sammyG]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems Full Tilt has the most conistent growth this month.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW THATS QUITE THE OBSERVATION!!! DID YOU READ THAT GRAPH ALL BY YOURSELF

[Sniper]

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3237/mtt101806uq7.jpg

[[censored]]

All,

so it looks like we lost 6k players and have cut the loss to 2k in just a week? is that everyone else is getting from this?

with FTP and secondaly Stars being the big winners

[Sniper]

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5531/sites102006ri6.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[Sniper]

[censored], the more interesting question would seem to be, where did 50K daily MTT entrants go, and will they reappear?

[Sniper]

Hey Scout... just fyi, Party's CEO on their conference call mentioned your site /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Cooder]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, here are the total entrant daily numbers:

[/ QUOTE ]

A butt-load of players have disappeared....

http://mysite.verizon.net/resq0cg8/entrants.jpg

Link to the Excel spreadsheet (http://mysite.verizon.net/resq0cg8/entrants.xls)

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
A butt-load of players have disappeared....

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, I dropped the question into an MTT forum thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7749557)

[Cooder]

[ QUOTE ]
[censored], the more interesting question would seem to be, where did 50K daily MTT entrants go, and will they reappear?

[/ QUOTE ]

It'd be nice if they'd reappear in DC with torches and pitchforks. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Scout... just fyi, Party's CEO on their conference call mentioned your site /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Well now I know we've hit the big time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for the heads-up. Is the phone replay really the only way to get the audio on that call? I thought all big companies put out streaming audio and/or transcripts these days, but I couldn't find any of that stuff on their site.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey Scout... just fyi, Party's CEO on their conference call mentioned your site /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Well now I know we've hit the big time. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks for the heads-up. Is the phone replay really the only way to get the audio on that call? I thought all big companies put out streaming audio and/or transcripts these days, but I couldn't find any of that stuff on their site.

[/ QUOTE ]

The replay is worth a listen, it was only about 45 minutes...

Some type of audio interview may appear on Cantos.com, but its not up yet for the 3rd Qtr info.

[Sniper]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6016/sites102106wk6.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

[[censored]]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/3314/sites101406at8pp1.jpg


http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/8827/sites102106wk6hv4.jpg

pokerstars + 1434
party -3941
<u>FTP + 1728</u>
<font color="red">-779 </font>

[kidpokeher]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I see this rather insignificant overall drop as a huge positive. I was fully expecting total numbers to drop by half or more.

We won't really know the impact until the regs get written and the banks start blocking transactions but it does seem like the majority of Americans are thumbing their nose at the government.

Thanks again to pokersitescout for the info.

[whangarei]

Interesting data. PokerSiteScout, Sniper, et. al. thanks for posting this stuff.

[ QUOTE ]

pokerstars + 1434
party -3941
<u>FTP + 1728</u>
<font color="red">-779 </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

What point you are trying to make with these numbers? The obvious "first-glance" conclusion is the online poker community lost 779 players from Party's US closure. But this is of course not accurate since this data represents seats and not individual players (right?), some Party refugees may play at other sites, etc.

Also, it seems from this two-week snapshot that Party lost about 40% of its seats so far. But I thought U.S. accounted for like 80% of its revenue. What is the explanation for this? Is it that US players play at higher stakes?

[Someone]

the numbers show peak times only. party's peakhours are now 5-6 hours earlier, and start to drop after their daily peak. previously, their numbers kept going up for 5-6 more hours.

it's not just the 40% decline, but also completely missing out on the busiest time of the day, which can't be shown in the numbers that are available.

[cap108]

Keep in mind that Party introduced micro limits at the same time they booted US players. If you subtract the new .02/.04 and .05/.10 NL and .05/.10, .10/.20, and .15/.30 limit players, I wonder what kind of numbers you get for them.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
the numbers show peak times only. party's peakhours are now 5-6 hours earlier, and start to drop after their daily peak. previously, their numbers kept going up for 5-6 more hours.

it's not just the 40% decline, but also completely missing out on the busiest time of the day, which can't be shown in the numbers that are available.

[/ QUOTE ]
"Daily data represents the 24 hour peak"

24 hour peak is still the peak, it isn't like it's a capture at a certain moment in time at all sites

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind that Party introduced micro limits at the same time they booted US players. If you subtract the new .02/.04 and .05/.10 NL and .05/.10, .10/.20, and .15/.30 limit players, I wonder what kind of numbers you get for them.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol @ party

[Drac]

[ QUOTE ]

pokerstars + 1434
party -3941
<u>FTP + 1728</u>
<font color="red">-779 </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Bodog picked up 357 players. I point that out not to nitpick with your numbers but because it's a pretty decent percentage increase on their business and as a regular there I've noticed the difference in traffic.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting data. PokerSiteScout, Sniper, et. al. thanks for posting this stuff.

[ QUOTE ]

pokerstars + 1434
party -3941
<u>FTP + 1728</u>
<font color="red">-779 </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

What point you are trying to make with these numbers? The obvious "first-glance" conclusion is the online poker community lost 779 players from Party's US closure. But this is of course not accurate since this data represents seats and not individual players (right?), some Party refugees may play at other sites, etc.

Also, it seems from this two-week snapshot that Party lost about 40% of its seats so far. But I thought U.S. accounted for like 80% of its revenue. What is the explanation for this? Is it that US players play at higher stakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

I simply wanted to see what the change was amongst the top 3 sites

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, it seems from this two-week snapshot that Party lost about 40% of its seats so far. But I thought U.S. accounted for like 80% of its revenue. What is the explanation for this? Is it that US players play at higher stakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

ok... let take a closer look at what we know...

First, In the 3rd Qtr, Party's revenue from poker was 2.7mil/day, including 0.8mil/day from non-US... so from a revenue perspective, Party on the poker side lost 1.9mil/day or roughly 70%. (as a side note, on the Casino side, 3rd QTr Rev was 0.9mil/day, with only 0.1mil/day non-US, or a roughly 89% loss)

Second, lets remember that peak seats is not players... that the pokersitescout data is only ring games...and also that Peak hides some things.

Let's look at an extreme example... Just for the purpose of understanding...
Let's just say that on some random day in Sept, at 2pm ET Party had 6K non-US seats and 0 US seats; and at 7pm ET Party had 15K US seats and 0 non-US. So peak would show as 15K.
Fast forward to now... Party still has 6K non-US seats at 2pm ET, but there are no US seats... so peak now is 6K... but those 15K US seats are gone.

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
Fast forward to now... Party still has 6K non-US seats at 2pm ET, but there are no US seats... so peak now is 6K... but those 15K US seats are gone.

[/ QUOTE ]

This just highlights what was already surmised, i.e. that party lost at least 60% of their player base. And in fact with the relevant observation above that they simultaneously introduced micro-stakes, that 60% figure is likely an understatement when based on their previous base.

The important question for us is of course how many of those lost US players who are of the casual/recreational variety are lost for good, and that's hard to know.

[Gregg777]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is Full Tilt the apparent beneficiary?

[/ QUOTE ]

FT is the "fishiest" (or most appealing to fish), in terms of TV coverage, being able to watch the pros on the site, etc.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
The important question for us is of course how many of those lost US players who are of the casual/recreational variety are lost for good, and that's hard to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff, while its hard to know at the moment, whether those players are lost for good... it is not hard to see that the majority of those players did not immediately switch to another site.

If 15K US seats swictched sites already, you would see much higher peaks at other sites.

This is even more pronounced when looking at the MTT entrants graph...

I expect we will continue to see movement as the days/weeks roll on... but it is clear that the majority of players did not make an immediate shift.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The important question for us is of course how many of those lost US players who are of the casual/recreational variety are lost for good, and that's hard to know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff, while its hard to know at the moment, whether those players are lost for good... it is not hard to see that the majority of those players did not immediately switch to another site.

If 15K US seats swictched sites already, you would see much higher peaks at other sites.

This is even more pronounced when looking at the MTT entrants graph...

I expect we will continue to see movement as the days/weeks roll on... but it is clear that the majority of players did not make an immediate shift.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this true? It seems from the "Overall" chart in another thread Recent site numbers (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=7770196&amp;an=0&amp;page=1#Post 7770196) that the number of overall players has decreased only slightly.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this true? It seems from the "Overall" chart in another thread Recent site numbers that the number of overall players has decreased only slightly.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you scroll up a few posts, you will understand what is hiding behind the numbers being posted. Which doesn't mean that looking at peak numbers isn't useful... obviously, I think it is; but you should understand what you are looking at.

fwiw, Scout's graph of avg traffic (http://www.pokersitescout.com/MoversGraph1.htm) is also helpful.

[Sniper]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/4806/sites102206jl4.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Including 7 day avg, and 8 days rolling
Sites sorted by 7 day avg

Starting with this chart added...
2wk Change, thanks for the idea [censored]... this will roll to 3 wk on friday, to keep the comparison to pre bill numbers.
Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak. Full Tilt, Bodog &amp; Absolute, at the moment.

[[censored]]

the trend from the 1 wk change to the 2 wk change looks good bu t we really need to see that continue into wk 3. if there is a similar increase in traffic for US friendly sites then I think absent of additional problems we'll be ok.

[SharkScope]

As requested here's the Sit &amp; Go Data:


PokerStars FullTilt Pacific Ongame Poker.com CryptoLogic
week players prize pools players prize pools players prize pools players prize pool players prize pool players prize pool
36 2046888 $30,345,925 648371 $9,962,280 612742 $7,537,899 895852 $11,427,345 43710 $285,446 326834 $6,788,268
37 2011188 $28,732,515 645574 $9,838,155 592299 $7,253,161 893739 $11,287,945 43962 $278,972 326498 $6,726,457
38 2126110 $31,350,019 647463 $9,701,420 582459 $7,168,830 877175 $11,099,640 43868 $272,992 325126 $6,752,054
39 2138359 $32,600,502 644426 $9,631,667 559551 $6,761,152 887466 $11,392,220 43286 $295,344 344768 $7,042,021
40 2094800 $31,635,747 650699 $10,329,057 576677 $7,040,485 922524 $11,884,020 45632 $294,546 348384 $7,218,544
41 2066108 $33,077,179 723852 $11,882,249 534751 $6,354,608 853449 $11,037,965 48590 $303,826 345832 $7,220,204
42 2243611 $43,460,238 842719 $14,074,842 373165 $4,335,880 802398 $9,907,075 64526 $403,674 339594 $6,813,913


Enjoy,

Steve
http://www.sharkscope.com

[Sniper]

Steve, much thanks for posting the SNG data.

[Sniper]

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4900/sng102406mn1.jpg

[BluffTHIS!]

Sniper &amp; Shark,

Although I have no interest in SNGs, I was wondering why party's numbers were left out? Does shark only cover the SNG fields for americans so stopped following party post-ban?

[Sniper]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/89/sng102406byd8.jpg

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Sniper &amp; Shark,

Although I have no interest in SNGs, I was wondering why party's numbers were left out? Does shark only cover the SNG fields for americans so stopped following party post-ban?

[/ QUOTE ]

As best as I can tell, sharkscope does not cover Party SNGs at the moment... his site states that coverage for Party is in beta test.

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
since this data represents seats and not individual players

[/ QUOTE ]
Party also reduced the number of tables you can play to 6. This probably accounts for a few percent of their losses over that period.

[Sniper]

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/817/sites102306ik4.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
2wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[MannyIsGod]

Sniper, thanks for continuing to post this. I always look forward to the updates.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Sniper, thanks for continuing to post this. I always look forward to the updates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your welcome... I'm glad that you and others I've received comments from have found it useful.

... and special thanks to the data collectors for making the sharing of this information possible.

[[censored]]

is it just me or do monday's numbers look much much worse

[Sniper]

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8741/sites102406ht9.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
2wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
is it just me or do monday's numbers look much much worse

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], I'm thinking that it makes sense that the days of the week that previously got the most traffic, would show the highest drop off, because of the nature of looking at peak traffic.

I'm also thinking its time for Stars to offer a reload bonus... maybe for Halloween.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
since this data represents seats and not individual players

[/ QUOTE ]
Party also reduced the number of tables you can play to 6. This probably accounts for a few percent of their losses over that period.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sciolist,

Do you think the number of non-US players sitting at 6+ tables previously is a significant amount?

[Sniper]

Ongame/pokerroom stops taking deposits from US players today... and stops US play on Mon 11/3... assuming traffic there follows the Paradise model, we should see traffic start to drop off on Ongame.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
is it just me or do monday's numbers look much much worse

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored], I'm thinking that it makes sense that the days of the week that previously got the most traffic, would show the highest drop off, because of the nature of looking at peak traffic.

I'm also thinking its time for Stars to offer a reload bonus... maybe for Halloween.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes that makes sense. once we get through this week, percentage change comparison would be good to look at.

im worried that the recreational losing player has left us and not returned. these players were probably the weakest of the bunch as they never learn from simple repitition. the LAGS and WT's on the other, while losing players do tend to make slight improvements over time decreasing the rate of their losing.

[Jerry D]

[ QUOTE ]
Ongame/pokerroom stops taking deposits from US players today... and stops US play on Mon 11/3... assuming traffic there follows the Paradise model, we should see traffic start to drop off on Ongame.

[/ QUOTE ]

They say on their website that US players can play until 11/6.

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
is it just me or do monday's numbers look much much worse

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't put too much stock in any one day's numbers. We had an internet connection failure during European peak time on Monday, so many Euro sites probably didn't reach their full peak numbers.

Longer-term trends and averages are more reliable.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ongame/pokerroom stops taking deposits from US players today... and stops US play on Mon 11/3... assuming traffic there follows the Paradise model, we should see traffic start to drop off on Ongame.

[/ QUOTE ]

They say on their website that US players can play until 11/6.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the correction Jerry, I took the dates from a press release.

[Sniper]

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/5100/sites102506qa0.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
2wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[N 82 50 24]

Updated data, with prizepools and entrants:

Date - UB $ - UB - Stars $ - Stars - Party $ - Party - FTP $ - FTP
25-Oct-06 197,809 10,754 1,027,811 50,583 196,992 12,220 405,680 16,658
24-Oct-06 180,517 10,599 964,757 53,229 215,461 12,597 448,305 17,825
23-Oct-06 172,524 10,714 963,179 51,097 206,652 12,615 427,597 15,960
22-Oct-06 437,119 15,487 2,408,067 60,098 477,092 15,798 838,554 21,667
21-Oct-06 253,043 13,384 1,033,854 50,426 245,797 15,087 482,196 18,017
20-Oct-06 230,041 12,382 926,714 51,413 244,024 14,275 349,925 14,092
19-Oct-06 176,164 10,509 834,162 48,475 211,877 12,919 399,310 16,139
18-Oct-06 196,682 10,620 1,006,622 48,574 199,872 14,285 394,060 16,755
17-Oct-06 185,229 10,550 971,753 53,008 227,808 14,967 365,758 13,877
16-Oct-06 206,003 10,744 984,742 51,627 234,415 14,240 399,169 15,023
15-Oct-06 421,193 14,440 2,314,887 58,949 157,167 11,285 1,028,914 20,400
14-Oct-06 231,098 11,902 1,032,440 49,497 265,437 16,815 461,303 17,446
13-Oct-06 205,941 11,215 904,498 49,854 314,192 16,019 334,224 14,165
12-Oct-06 179,759 10,287 808,134 47,709 1,091,156 57,789 330,161 12,301
11-Oct-06 198,514 10,547 958,013 47,655 1,035,157 58,308 327,913 14,201
10-Oct-06 174,347 9,668 874,524 49,643 1,104,168 58,672 328,910 13,229
9-Oct-06 219,692 10,913 915,773 50,278 1,143,666 62,122 333,063 12,328
8-Oct-06 403,042 13,527 2,057,683 55,490 2,194,851 72,488 604,412 14,918
7-Oct-06 222,558 11,881 962,780 47,424 1,325,816 67,261 362,747 13,285
6-Oct-06 195,245 10,773 829,359 49,165 1,138,877 62,977 266,855 11,937
5-Oct-06 180,895 10,058 835,645 50,719 1,074,439 59,812 316,896 12,832
4-Oct-06 197,474 10,192 919,471 48,372 1,033,512 61,464 303,524 13,313
3-Oct-06 172,431 9,771 873,085 51,691 1,137,396 64,399 335,550 13,443
2-Oct-06 195,093 10,387 873,052 51,291 1,156,144 65,794 327,632 12,939
1-Oct-06 395,302 13,462 7,636,513 54,899 2,323,430 80,086 607,284 16,761
30-Sep-06 211,193 11,823 2,625,361 50,668 1,519,103 76,128 390,288 15,888
29-Sep-06 185,675 10,717 1,344,387 52,034 1,275,404 69,626 290,938 13,464
28-Sep-06 169,761 9,864 1,101,831 50,793 1,180,452 65,499 315,140 14,119
27-Sep-06 188,162 10,091 1,481,622 49,350 967,928 56,205 312,496 14,129
26-Sep-06 163,627 8,846 1,289,069 51,192 1,099,558 60,323 285,931 11,189
25-Sep-06 182,369 10,063 1,071,305 49,680 1,135,882 62,472 220,856 9,667
24-Sep-06 403,684 14,010 3,593,096 55,026 2,326,986 76,739 629,231 18,326
23-Sep-06 213,732 12,080 1,843,679 51,418 1,475,333 72,666 402,697 16,427
22-Sep-06 193,603 11,278 1,237,077 51,587 1,258,244 66,584 300,700 13,962
21-Sep-06 179,185 10,103 2,108,178 50,809 1,158,776 62,289 309,562 13,127
20-Sep-06 191,330 10,422 1,427,118 48,642 1,145,043 63,359 300,252 13,855
19-Sep-06 170,869 9,752 1,292,424 51,813 1,220,685 64,254 332,055 13,867
18-Sep-06 195,202 10,189 1,611,690 48,871 1,182,220 63,295 340,515 13,074
17-Sep-06 392,381 13,362 3,167,326 53,323 2,326,215 76,433 918,251 17,716
16-Sep-06 472,107 11,986 1,146,205 46,507 1,453,576 70,564 403,548 15,841
15-Sep-06 199,435 10,659 797,784 47,431 1,292,699 68,434 307,140 13,773
14-Sep-06 203,821 9,842 747,701 47,325 1,178,085 64,006 324,082 13,573
13-Sep-06 201,516 10,410 851,819 45,132 1,112,860 63,719 312,925 14,309
12-Sep-06 196,498 9,833 745,619 46,392 1,119,539 59,563 335,082 13,666
11-Sep-06 209,289 10,379 839,281 45,583 1,187,364 63,189 336,182 12,863
10-Sep-06 409,191 13,935 2,062,518 52,676 2,319,473 76,318 625,994 17,709
9-Sep-06 269,421 12,532 864,912 43,229 1,492,315 73,269 405,918 16,186
8-Sep-06 202,699 11,030 804,461 44,972 1,296,865 68,479 284,114 12,696
7-Sep-06 206,305 10,033 691,458 41,159 858,126 47,869 295,294 12,213
6-Sep-06 207,104 10,524 878,358 43,622 975,014 52,795 305,250 13,019
5-Sep-06 197,182 9,657 804,822 46,539 1,218,984 65,489 351,246 14,093
4-Sep-06 256,976 12,977 919,921 52,658 1,481,296 78,699 446,657 17,975
3-Sep-06 420,230 14,292 2,105,687 54,224 2,403,948 82,264 626,853 18,184
2-Sep-06 280,838 12,331 913,163 45,185 1,550,716 75,451 410,124 16,312

[Sniper]

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8569/mtt102506air3.jpg

[Sniper]

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/3396/mtt102506bpt6.jpg

[graydot]

thanks for putting in the effort to keep us updated

awesome work.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
thanks for putting in the effort to keep us updated

awesome work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks to N 82 50 24, Sharkscope, and Scout, for continuing to provide the updated info...

fwiw, I posted a quick analysis of the Stars MTT Prizepool spike attributable to the WCOOP, in the MTT thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=7749557) .

[Sniper]

http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/3478/sites102606tt2.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
2wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[kidpokeher]

Thanks again Sniper.

Funny side note. I called up an old couple as part of my unscientific poll to figure out what sites resonate with the casual poker player. They don't play online (don't even have a computer) but they like watching the poker shows on TV. I asked her what site comes to mind when she thinks of online poker.

"Hmmm... what's it called... Stars Poker, I think."

"PokerStars?"

"Yeah, the site where you play poker with the stars."

[N 82 50 24]

Well, bad news from an online tracking perspective. Party has basically eliminated the completed tournaments in the lobby, so we won't be able to track their further decline. I think they saw this thread and didn't want their results published anymore. I'm thinking up various revenge strategies now.

The good news is that we should still be able to see how well Stars, Party and FTP do over the next few months.

[Sniper]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3892/sites102706wx9.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
3wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/2177/sites102806ee3.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
3wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

Note, Tribeca 7 Day avg just popped over the Sept peak...

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, bad news from an online tracking perspective. Party has basically eliminated the completed tournaments in the lobby, so we won't be able to track their further decline. I think they saw this thread and didn't want their results published anymore. I'm thinking up various revenge strategies now.

The good news is that we should still be able to see how well Stars, Party and FTP do over the next few months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, they really are trying to hide their data...

Suggestion: Pull the data from tournaments while they are running... you won't be able to capture all the individual winnners stats, but you will capture the overall info /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[dikshit]

I notice PartyPoker is down quite a bit over the last two days. Is this to do with the 'hiding' of data'? What's the point if it makes you look like you're slipping

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, bad news from an online tracking perspective. Party has basically eliminated the completed tournaments in the lobby, so we won't be able to track their further decline. I think they saw this thread and didn't want their results published anymore. I'm thinking up various revenge strategies now.

The good news is that we should still be able to see how well Stars, Party and FTP do over the next few months.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, they really are trying to hide their data...

Suggestion: Pull the data from tournaments while they are running... you won't be able to capture all the individual winnners stats, but you will capture the overall info /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, we're considering re-writing the software to open lobbies as they finish up and get the results that way. Not sure if it's worth it though, no one cares about Party anymore.

[daveymck]

[ QUOTE ]
Note, Tribeca 7 Day avg just popped over the Sept peak...

[/ QUOTE ]

VC have a reload bonus on got emailed about it earlier in the week might account for some of it.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, bad news from an online tracking perspective. Party has basically eliminated the completed tournaments in the lobby, so we won't be able to track their further decline. I think they saw this thread and didn't want their results published anymore. I'm thinking up various revenge strategies now.

The good news is that we should still be able to see how well Stars, Party and FTP do over the next few months.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, they really are trying to hide their data...

Suggestion: Pull the data from tournaments while they are running... you won't be able to capture all the individual winnners stats, but you will capture the overall info /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, we're considering re-writing the software to open lobbies as they finish up and get the results that way. Not sure if it's worth it though, no one cares about Party anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]
Weird, the completed lobbies are back. No idea what happened over the weekend.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Weird, the completed lobbies are back. No idea what happened over the weekend.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's possible they just had a server problem. (Maybe related to the time change)

fwiw, I found this tournament interesting...

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/7056/party1969fm0.jpg

[Sniper]

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/4918/sites102906hn3.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
3wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

Note, Everest 7 day Avg just peeked over the Sept peak...

[villafan]

Interesting to see the Crypto numbers today. It was the first day without the Betfair players, and their numbers had a significant drop.

Last three mondays Crypto had 2622, 2772 and 2896 players. Today the peak was 2188 players. Thats a drop of 16.5% compared with last monday.

[BluffTHIS!]

From a competitive standpoint versus party, the best bet for stars, FT, Bodog or UB might be to buy one of the small publicly traded sites that has left the US market, in order to both hurt party more in the only market they have left and with FT/Bodog/UB grow versus stars. And paradise/Bwin should sell itself before there's nothing left to sell.

[N 82 50 24]

Just based off a few casual observations it looks like FTP and Stars are seeing continued slow growth. It seems like some Party traffic is filtering over.

I will post the number again at the end of the week so we can see if it's noticable visibly.

[Sniper]

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5891/sites103006vh9.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
3wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/8027/sites103106xk9.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
3wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 days. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting to see the Crypto numbers today. It was the first day without the Betfair players, and their numbers had a significant drop.

Last three mondays Crypto had 2622, 2772 and 2896 players. Today the peak was 2188 players. Thats a drop of 16.5% compared with last monday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, the crypto hit from losing the Betfair players can definately be seen.

[Sniper]

Worth noting, holidays have a tendency toward lower traffic. The low numbers from yesterday may be attributable to Halloween.

[ADS]

This is a great thread. And thank you Scout. Your site is on my favorites list now.

I do have a comment though, not sure if anyone touched on this before. As you all can see, the number of drop-offs for Party is not close to 80% of the number of PLAYERS. If the revenue drop off is really close to 80%, this would mean that the way that the analysis is performed above is somewhat flawed.

Let me preface by saying that I check Scout's site pretty often. I always see that Party's peak numbers are more than FT. But I never see the CURRENT Party numbers higher than FT. My theory is that while the number of players in peak hours for Party may be a relatively high, that peak (or even close to the peak) is short lived. This is either because of Foreign (non U.S) players not playing for as long per session on average, or a converging of certain European and maybe Far-East time zones that creates this peak.

A way to get a good analysis is to take a weighted average based on the number of players per hour for each calendar day and divide by 24 to come up with a more meaningful number. I contend that this number would at least switch FT to second and Party to third (and maybe lower?).

Scout, is it possible to do this from your database?

Sorry if this was touched on before.

Thanks Again

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I do have a comment though, not sure if anyone touched on this before. As you all can see, the number of drop-offs for Party is not close to 80% of the number of PLAYERS. If the revenue drop off is really close to 80%, this would mean that the way that the analysis is performed above is somewhat flawed.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you search back a bit in the thread you'll find this is explained.

[ QUOTE ]
Let me preface by saying that I check Scout's site pretty often. I always see that Party's peak numbers are more than FT. But I never see the CURRENT Party numbers higher than FT.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see Party current numbers higher than full tilt all the time. You are correct that the Party and full tilt peaks occur at different times of the day.

[ QUOTE ]
A way to get a good analysis is to take a weighted average based on the number of players per hour for each calendar day and divide by 24 to come up with a more meaningful number. I contend that this number would at least switch FT to second and Party to third (and maybe lower?).


[/ QUOTE ]

Scout just added a 7 Day Avg of the AVG (not peak) traffic. You can also see this graphed out at his effects link.

[ADS]

[/ QUOTE ]

Scout just added a 7 Day Avg of the AVG (not peak) traffic. You can also see this graphed out at his effects link.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks,

I am trying to find the above, with no luck...can you direct me?

[Sniper]

Direct link to Scout's Avg player graph (http://www.pokersitescout.com/Legislation.htm)

This 2nd graph (also from Scout) showing Party's traffic pattern on 2 specific days is also interesting...

http://www.pokersitescout.com/PartyDailyComparison3.gif

[Sniper]

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/7218/sites110106sv7.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
3wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
From a competitive standpoint versus party, the best bet for stars, FT, Bodog or UB might be to buy one of the small publicly traded sites that has left the US market, in order to both hurt party more in the only market they have left and with FT/Bodog/UB grow versus stars. And paradise/Bwin should sell itself before there's nothing left to sell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bluff, lets take a look at this... interestingly...

Of the 20 sites being tracked, 11 dropped (or are in the process of dropping) US players. So, 9 sites/networks still allow US players.

Of the top 7 sites, 5 allow US players... only Party &amp; Ongame remain at this point in the top, and Ongame still hasn't felt the full effect of its decision.

That leaves 4 sites/networks in the bottom 13, that still allow US players.... Tribeca, Tain, Absolute &amp; WPEX.

Now, the interesting part...

Tribeca and Tain are merging... this should move them into the top 5.

Absolute &amp; Ultimate are now somehow ownership related, and there has been some discussion that the player base will be merged... if this happens they will likely takeover the #4 spot.

That would leave WPEX as the sole site accepting US players at the bottom of the pile.

I think you are right that there should be some pressure on the non-US sites to combine, in order to compete, as the sites still taking US players will have a user base advantage in competing for the non-US markets.

This is important, because even if the sites that currently accept US players should have to stop doing so in the future (or funding issues restrict the flow of US players)... they have a huge competitive advantage between now and then, in attracting non-US customers.

Bottom line, all sites should be focused on increasing their non-US business, whether thru consolidation or marketing.

Thoughts?

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line, all sites should be focused on increasing their non-US business, whether thru consolidation or marketing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would have thought that due to network effects (i.e, once a site hits a certain point, it'll grow simply because it has good table selection - see old Party, and once it drops below a certain point it'll probably die completely due to lack of table selection, see Paradise), the sites that dropped US players should be bought by the big sites immediately. That way, you keep their player base before it goes low enough that their table selection kills them.

[Sniper]

OK, this graph represents the 7 day average of Peaks across the month of October... I've stretched out the bottom half of the graph to provide some seperation between the 14 sites bundled between 1K-3K...

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1075/sitesoctaba8.jpg
http://img334.imageshack.us/img334/6859/sitesoctbqy1.jpg

[BluffTHIS!]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line, all sites should be focused on increasing their non-US business, whether thru consolidation or marketing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would have thought that due to network effects (i.e, once a site hits a certain point, it'll grow simply because it has good table selection - see old Party, and once it drops below a certain point it'll probably die completely due to lack of table selection, see Paradise), the sites that dropped US players should be bought by the big sites immediately. That way, you keep their player base before it goes low enough that their table selection kills them.

[/ QUOTE ]


I agree with this and that was the point I was making earlier, i.e. the privately held sites that now allow US players have a big incentive to buyout publicly traded smaller ones that left and increase their global player base. Stars has already been marketing to euroland so they don't have as big an incentive to buy another site's player base. But FT is the one that really does. But of course that also means having a committment to multilingual marketing and customer support. stars for instance does have versions of its web pages in other languages, but FT to my knowledge doesn't.

The sports sites that offer poker however may not be able to go after other countries because although they might not fear flaunting US, they probably do want to be able to go to other countries besides Costa Rica and Antigua. Bodog for instance doesn't accept canadians because Calvin Ayre is canadian.

I am also wondering why the delay in merging the Tribeca/Tain networks, and same for UB/Absolute if they have plans to do so. All of those sites really need to do any mergers/acquisitions quickly to move up in the rankings and be able to attract even more players, and especially for Tain to avoid the player losing table selection downward spiral that Sciolist mentioned.

And for poor paradise, all they will have to sell soon is their software platform.

[Sniper]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5365/sites110206bh4.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
3wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Mizzles]

Why is FT gaining players almost 2x the rate of Stars? Is it simply the deposit bonus that's responsible? If so, I think Stars is making a huge mistake in not having an inticing bonus of their own at this critical juncture.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is FT gaining players almost 2x the rate of Stars? Is it simply the deposit bonus that's responsible? If so, I think Stars is making a huge mistake in not having an inticing bonus of their own at this critical juncture.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it likely has to do with rakeback affiliates shifting players... Stars does not have an advantage in this area.

I will however, agree with your comment (and those in other threads) on bonuses... that while Stars recent VIP bonus and new player bonuses are OK, they blew it by not having a $50 bronze bonus for those players who already have an account, but don't play there very much.

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why is FT gaining players almost 2x the rate of Stars? Is it simply the deposit bonus that's responsible? If so, I think Stars is making a huge mistake in not having an inticing bonus of their own at this critical juncture.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it likely has to do with rakeback affiliates shifting players... Stars does not have an advantage in this area.

I will however, agree with your comment (and those in other threads) on bonuses... that while Stars recent VIP bonus and new player bonuses are OK, they blew it by not having a $50 bronze bonus for those players who already have an account, but don't play there very much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Stars is great, but their bonus/VIP program is geared toward their grinders (which is fine, the grinders do generate the most rake), not the fish or recreational player. I would expect FT to get more than its fair share of the Party run-off.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bottom line, all sites should be focused on increasing their non-US business, whether thru consolidation or marketing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I would have thought that due to network effects (i.e, once a site hits a certain point, it'll grow simply because it has good table selection - see old Party, and once it drops below a certain point it'll probably die completely due to lack of table selection, see Paradise), the sites that dropped US players should be bought by the big sites immediately. That way, you keep their player base before it goes low enough that their table selection kills them.

[/ QUOTE ]

While I agree that network effect has some impact on growth; I do not believe that at least for the sites that we are looking at here, that there is a point where players will leave a site and it will die for lack of traffic.

Also, right at this moment we are seeing a market dynamic where many players are looking for new sites to play on. Any site simply relying on their current traffic to drive organic growth, is missing out on an opportunity to grab a pile of players. While size will drive some traffic, any and all additional steps to attract players right now, would be rewarded.

One of the other things that has to be considered when looking at potential buyout candidates, is there are some sites that no matter how low their traffic, would not be sold. For example WPEX, while its traffic is low, the poker room is a loss leader to their sportsbook... what incentive do they have to sell their poker business.

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
While I agree that network effect has some impact on growth; I do not believe that at least for the sites that we are looking at here, that there is a point where players will leave a site and it will die for lack of traffic.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is exactly what we're seeing with Paradise: I think they will die completely, or drop to sub Action-Poker levels with a hardcore of players. I guess we can see who is right from that kind of prediction: I predict it'll happen with firstly Paradise and then with Pacific. Of course, this would've been a smarter prediction a couple of weeks ago.

[Sciolist]

I think I used too much compression on a couple of these, but nevermind.
http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2006/48307-temp1.JPG
http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2006/48309-temp2.jpg
http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2006/48310-temp3.jpg
http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2006/48311-temp4.jpg

[The_Scout]

A few questions about your graphs, Sciolist.

Where does your data come from?

In the first graph, is the magenta (or pink or whatever) line supposed to be PartyPoker?

How is that first graph generated? Are you using same-day peaks?

In the second graph, is that peak players as well?

By the way, this graph of average (not peak) cash game players recently went up on my site:

http://www.pokersitescout.com/images/PostUIGEAComparison20061101.gif

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While I agree that network effect has some impact on growth; I do not believe that at least for the sites that we are looking at here, that there is a point where players will leave a site and it will die for lack of traffic.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is exactly what we're seeing with Paradise: I think they will die completely, or drop to sub Action-Poker levels with a hardcore of players. I guess we can see who is right from that kind of prediction: I predict it'll happen with firstly Paradise and then with Pacific. Of course, this would've been a smarter prediction a couple of weeks ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sciolist, what we are seeing with Paradise is what I'll call the Busto effect /images/graemlins/wink.gif

A majority of their traffic was US... what they did was cut off US players deposits when the bill was signed, but allow US players (except from 10 states) to continue to play with money they had on deposit until Nov 13th. So, we will not see their true non-US only traffic until after 11/13; meanwhile, over the course of the month, their US traffic is continuously fading out as players either run out of funds, or withdraw what they had left.

They also just gave out bonus funds to what I would expect to be all their non-US players (although their T&amp;C says it was random... yeah right). This promo runs from Nov 3rd to Dec 2nd.

[Sniper]

Scout, I like the comparison of 2 days of Party's traffic throughout a day.

It would be great if you could do 2 graphs.. 1 a single day look at a days traffic across just the top US sites, and a 2nd just a single day look at the top non-US sites..this would really help to understand the intraday traffic patterns at the sites and whether the primary difference in the patterns are US vs non-US or some other factor.

The Party graph would seem to indicate that the US sites should have a flatter/extended peak, while the non-US should have a pointier peak; would be nice to confirm that all the sites follow this same pattern.

Thanks in advance.

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
The Party graph would seem to indicate that the US sites should have a flatter/extended peak, while the non-US should have a pointier peak; would be nice to confirm that all the sites follow this same pattern.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, here's a graph I was thinking of posting anyway. It shows that PokerStars has a mixture of American and European players, although I'd guess Europeans are outnumbered maybe 2 or 3 to 1. Stars doesn't have the kind of cross-contintental balance that Party had before the Frist of October.

On the other hand, FTP and Bodog have very little European component to their curve. It's pretty much all North America. Even Party has a broader peak than they do, which is kind of mind-boggling.

http://www.pokersitescout.com/images/Daily%20Cycle%2020061030.gif

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
A few questions about your graphs, Sciolist.

Where does your data come from?

[/ QUOTE ]
Damnit, I forgot to plug your site again :]

These are just graphs created from the public data on your site. It's all peak times and peak users, so it's not desperately useful for looking at anything else.

[ QUOTE ]
In the first graph, is the magenta (or pink or whatever) line supposed to be PartyPoker?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah yes, managed to misname it in the legend.

The averages graphs are quite interesting, is the source data public domain, i.e, available on your site? It's worth noting that Party still have a lot of Canadians &amp; some South Americans, so you need to look at something like Everest to look at purely European data.

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
Damnit, I forgot to plug your site again :]

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, shame on you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
The averages graphs are quite interesting, is the source data public domain, i.e, available on your site?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, we keep some stuff back for paying customers.

[ QUOTE ]
Party still have a lot of Canadians &amp; some South Americans

[/ QUOTE ]
You would think so, but it certainly doesn't show on their graph. Nothing like the kind of shoulder you see on the Stars graph during Euro prime time. Maybe there aren't as many Canadians playing as we thought.

It also shows that Party has done a pretty effective job of locking out Americans.

[Sniper]

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3663/sites110306ui2.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
4wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[[censored]]

sniper

is the wk four change the amount of players lost initially from the drop of US players?

and the 1wk change the amount of increase from the previous wk?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
sniper

is the wk four change the amount of players lost initially from the drop of US players?

and the 1wk change the amount of increase from the previous wk?

[/ QUOTE ]

The last column (now 4wk change) represents the change for that day of the week compared to that day of the week during the week before the legislation was signed (10/13). So, on the last chart, F 11/3 compared to F 10/6.

the 1wk change is the same type of day of week comparison, but back only to the prior week. So on the last chart, F 11/3 compared to F 10/27.

I'm open to suggestions on other comparisons that might be interesting.

[[censored]]

no I think that makes the most sense, I just wanted to be sure I knew what I was seeing.

looks like things are trending up again

[Sniper]

Las Vegas From Home.com Entertainment Inc. ("the Company") (TSX VENTURE: LVH)(OTCBB: LVFHF)(BERLIN: LVH)(FWB: LVH) announces the sale of its Action Poker Network ("APN") business to Playsafe Holdings Ltd. ("Playsafe"), a wholly owned subsidiary of Playsafe Holding AS (Norway), a public company listed in Norway. The sale price is US$2,350,000 and the transaction is to be completed on or before November 17, 2006. Playsafe has deposited a break up fee of US$250,000, which upon Closing will be applied against the purchase price or, if the agreement is earlier terminated, refunded to Playsafe or paid to the Company in accordance with the provisions set out in the agreement. A finder's fee of US$75,000 is payable to an arm's length third party upon completion. The arm's length transaction is subject to regulatory approval.

Although the Company had already engaged GMP Securities LP several months ago to assist in exploring the sale of the Company's APN so that it can focus on its Asian Multiplayer Software Platform ("AMSP"), the Company expedited the sale of the Company's APN as a result of the recent enactment of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 in the United States (the "Act"). Wellington West Capital Markets Inc. shall be commissioned by the Company to provide a fairness opinion on the transaction.

The sale will include, among other things, all of the Action Poker brands, the operating infrastructure in Action Poker Gaming Inc., APG Costa Rica S.A. and Action Commerce Limited and an undivided interest in the software used by the Company to run the APN. As a result of the sale, the Company will no longer have any online gaming interests in the North American market.

Future Business Initiatives - Asia

The Company plans to focus on continuing to develop its unique AMSP which has already been soft launched. Company President and CEO, Jake Kalpakian states, "We are all disheartened with the recent legislative developments in the U.S., but the reality is, we, as a Company, were already looking at other business opportunities in different marketplaces. In this regard, we have been building our unique AMSP for the past 12 months and as a result, are well positioned to license our software in the Asian region. Not only has the AMSP recently been soft launched in that marketplace, we have been receiving a tremendous amount of interest for this particular product from prospective licensees. We believe our unique Software should enable us to capitalize on niche or nascent market opportunities in that region. This direction of building specialized products to serve niche markets will be the Company's course of action for the future and we expect to be announcing several promising initiatives in this regard."

LVFH is an "E-Gaming" Software Developer and provider, and through its wholly owned Antiguan Subsidiary, Action Poker Gaming Inc., licenses its software to third parties.

On behalf of the Board of Las Vegas From Home.com Entertainment Inc.

Jacob H. Kalpakian, President

Statements made in this news release that relate to future plans, events or performances are forward-looking statements. Any statement in this release containing words such as "believes", "plans", "expects" or "intends" and other statements that are not historical facts are forward-looking, and these statements involve risks and uncertainties and are based on current expectations. Consequently, actual results could differ materially from the expectations expressed in these forward-looking statements. The Company disclaims any obligation or intention to update or revise any forward-looking statement, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise.

The TSX Venture Exchange has not reviewed and does not accept responsibility for the adequacy or accuracy of this release.

Contacts: Las Vegas From Home.com Entertainment Inc. Jacob H. Kalpakian President (604) 681-0204 (604) 681-9428 (FAX) Email: Info@lvfh.com Website: www.lvfh.com (http://www.lvfh.com)

SOURCE: Las Vegas From Home.com Entertainment Inc.

[Sniper]

PartyGaming in talks to buy Austria bwin unit
Saturday November 4, 11:20 am ET


LONDON (Reuters) - Online gaming firm PartyGaming (London:PRTY.L) is in talks to buy part of Austrian Internet betting company bwin.com (Vienna:BWIN.VI), a source close to the situation said on Saturday.

"It is a logical extension from PartyGaming buying Gamebookers in August," said the source, adding that PartyGaming was losing interest in buying smaller rival 888 Holdings Plc (London:888.L).

PartyGaming said last month that its sports betting operation Gamebookers had exceeded expectations since it was bought.

PartyGaming is also looking at other deals, including smaller online bingo and casino operators, the source said.

Meanwhile, the Financial Times reported that Ladbrokes (London:LAD.L) and 888 were in merger talks.

Ladbrokes declined to comment, while 888 reiterated its statement on Monday that it had held "various preliminary discussions with third parties."

A source close to 888 said: "The founding shareholders are not desperate to sell, because they believe in the long term business."

Many online gaming companies have been in tie-up talks as they search for potential synergies to improve margins after the United States effectively banned online gaming last month.

PartyGaming spokesman John Shepherd declined to comment on the potential acquisitions but added that the company had continued to reduce its cost base by cutting jobs.

"Out of the 1,750 staff in India, we had to let go of 800," he said.

"It was necessary to reduce the cost base as a result of illogical, ill-conceived and inconsistent prohibition legislation in the United States," he added.

PartyGaming offered other companies in Hyderabad, India the employees it was losing, said Shepherd.

As a result, 13 companies conducted job interviews, including HSBC Technology Services, technology firm Cisco, mobile phone maker Motorola, investment bank UBS and consultancy Deloitte.

"We're very pleased to have found alternative employment for a couple of hundred former employees," said Shepherd.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a side note, there were rumors circulating back in August that PartyGaming was accumulating shares of BWIN, so it may already have a stake in the company.

[Sniper]

Looks like we may get an update on the AP/UB situation on Monday...

Absolute and Ultimate to announce merger on Monday
The wave of consolidation and mergers and acquisitions in the egaming industry continues as eGaming Review can reveal that Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet are to announce their official merger on Monday.

Rumours of a buy out of Ultimate Bet by Absolute Poker had been swirling around the industry for the past few weeks.

The two sites continue to take US bets, and are looking to consolidate liquidity levels in the wake of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA). Both sites are already sizeable players in the online poker sector, and the combined entity is expected to create one of the top three or four largest poker sites in the world.

Details are sketchy at this point, and it is unclear how the new company will be structured and marketed to its largely US player base, though it is thought there will be a strong marketing push in the US poker market in the near future. It is also unclear how this merger will affect the staff of both companies.

Sources at Absolute Poker and Ultimate Bet were unavailable for comment.

[Sniper]

America’s MGM Mirage and Britain’s Ladbrokes, two of the world’s largest gambling groups, have started exploratory takeover talks with internet rivals decimated by recent US Congress legislation banning online gambling.

MGM, the world’s second-largest gambling group, is understood to have contacted a number of players in the sector, including poker market leader PartyGaming, to discuss a takeover.

Though talks are at an early stage, bankers involved with MGM stressed the US company’s interest was serious.Bankers stressed Las Vegas-based MGM wants to buy a market leader and is considering a move on any group created by a merger of PartyGaming and 888 Holdings, which are said to be in negotiations, along with Sportingbet.

Rumours forced 888 to reveal its hand by issuing a statement to the London Stock Exchange admitting it had been “very active” and was talking to “more than one party”.

The Business also understands that one party involved in these talks is Ladbrokes, which refused to comment except to say that it was watching the situation. It has a popular online casino and poker website but these are dwarfed by its sports betting arm. It has made no secret of its desire to expand into European and Asian markets.

A brand clearly designed for the Asian market, 888 has no real sports betting offering. It derived about half its revenues and profits from the United States before that business was closed down but has been developing other territories.

At interim results in September, its last financial announcement before the American bombshell, 888 reported net gaming revenues had grown 61% in the UK and 16% in continental Europe. “The truth is that everybody is talking to everybody else,” said one source involved in discussions. “These things are at an early stage – the US situation only developed a few weeks ago.”

The move by Ladbrokes is in direct contrast to the bookie’s two great rivals – Gala Coral and William Hill – who have said they will not be acquiring online rivals.

Gala Coral is looking at buying the Tote, the state-owned pool betting business, while William Hill chief executive David Harding has ruled out any approaches.

[Sniper]

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2407/sites110406ju4.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
4wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[[censored]]

sniper would it be possible to start doing a line chart based on weekly avg or total online players

so right now for example we would have 4 data points starting with the week before legislation.

[Sniper]

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/6285/sites110506hr1.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
4wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/8008/sites110606eb2.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
4wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[whereismyluck]

Im all in

[dragonystic]

That Absolute Poker data HAS to be wrong. There are more players on there than I've ever seen, and by a long shot. What's going on?

[sonofstev]

Stars average just beat last month's peak. Last month being the WCOOP. Nice.

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
That Absolute Poker data HAS to be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it was wrong. The problem has now been fixed.

[chaoti]

I wonder what the issue was with missing players on Stars. Does it go back before October so that all the previous numbers have been wrong, or it's just something recent?

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder what the issue was with missing players on Stars. Does it go back before October so that all the previous numbers have been wrong, or it's just something recent?

[/ QUOTE ]
It was a recent problem that occurred with their post-legislation growth, and it only impacted the player counts during some peak times. The number of tables just exceeded the parameters we had set for the count.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That Absolute Poker data HAS to be wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, it was wrong. The problem has now been fixed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scout, do we know what the data should have been, or do we just know that the data is wrong?

I noticed that you deleted a few days from the history on your site for Abs, so just looking for clarification. Thx

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
Scout, do we know what the data should have been

[/ QUOTE ]
No, what we have is basically a few days of no valid data from Absolute.

[Sniper]

http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/121/sites110706sm9.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
4wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[N 82 50 24]

Unfortunately our Party data kinda partially died a week or two ago and it has picked up, but it is not unreliable with regards to completeness after a certain date. Therefore, I'm just including UB/FTP/Stars here. I don't know that missing Party matters that much anyway, we all saw that it fell off by quite a bit.

Date - UB - FTP - Stars - UB - FTP - Stars
7-Nov-06 243505 518490 1019917.1 11217 20252 54919
6-Nov-06 275590 542917 1108776.6 11708 20296 53664
5-Nov-06 484665 988676 2469480.2 16096 25916 61795
4-Nov-06 292157 581662 1147685 14095 22210 53253
3-Nov-06 255728 442020 1027255.9 12896 18806 54753
2-Nov-06 190288 480672 993621.5 11394 18496 55082
1-Nov-06 211691 466047 1135926.8 11187 18177 52607
31-Oct-06 185775 425609 902942 10351 16715 49058
30-Oct-06 193351 433581 1023493.9 10983 16656 50583
29-Oct-06 468337 852409 2507316.8 16216 23244 52905
28-Oct-06 276324 526594 1133856.5 14312 20522 51326
27-Oct-06 244568 396162 1001803.5 12610 17006 53762
26-Oct-06 177991 442547 964654.6 10693 16813 53891
25-Oct-06 197809 405680 1027810.5 10754 16658 50583
24-Oct-06 180517 448305 964757.2 10599 17825 53229
23-Oct-06 172524 427597 963179.3 10714 15960 51097
22-Oct-06 437119 838554 2408067 15487 21667 60098
21-Oct-06 253043 482196 1033853.6 13384 18017 50426
20-Oct-06 230041 349925 926713.8 12382 14092 51413
19-Oct-06 176164 399310 834161.7 10509 16139 48475
18-Oct-06 196682 394060 1006622.1 10620 16755 48574
17-Oct-06 185229 365758 971753.1 10550 13877 53008
16-Oct-06 206003 399169 984742.4 10744 15023 51627
15-Oct-06 421193 1028914 2314887.2 14440 20400 58949
14-Oct-06 231098 461303 1032440.2 11902 17446 49497
13-Oct-06 205941 334224 904497.9 11215 14165 49854
12-Oct-06 179759 330161 808133.8 10287 12301 47709
11-Oct-06 198514 327913 958013.2 10547 14201 47655
10-Oct-06 174347 328910 874524 9668 13229 49643
9-Oct-06 219692 333063 915773.4 10913 12328 50278
8-Oct-06 403042 604412 2057683.3 13527 14918 55490
7-Oct-06 222558 362747 962780.1 11881 13285 47424
6-Oct-06 195245 266855 829358.7 10773 11937 49165
5-Oct-06 180895 316896 835645.3 10058 12832 50719
4-Oct-06 197474 303524 919470.5 10192 13313 48372
3-Oct-06 172431 335550 873084.8 9771 13443 51691
2-Oct-06 195093 327632 873052.4 10387 12939 51291
1-Oct-06 395302 607284 7636513.2 13462 16761 54899
30-Sep-06 211193 390288 2625361.1 11823 15888 50668
29-Sep-06 185675 290938 1344387.1 10717 13464 52034
28-Sep-06 169761 315140 1101831.4 9864 14119 50793
27-Sep-06 188162 312496 1481622.2 10091 14129 49350
26-Sep-06 163627 285931 1289069.3 8846 11189 51192
25-Sep-06 182369 220856 1071304.8 10063 9667 49680
24-Sep-06 403684 629231 3593096.1 14010 18326 55026
23-Sep-06 213732 402697 1843678.8 12080 16427 51418
22-Sep-06 193603 300700 1237077.3 11278 13962 51587
21-Sep-06 179185 309562 2108178.3 10103 13127 50809
20-Sep-06 191330 300252 1427117.5 10422 13855 48642
19-Sep-06 170869 332055 1292423.5 9752 13867 51813
18-Sep-06 195202 340515 1611689.9 10189 13074 48871
17-Sep-06 392381 918251 3167325.8 13362 17716 53323
16-Sep-06 472107 403548 1146204.7 11986 15841 46507
15-Sep-06 199435 307140 797784.2 10659 13773 47431
14-Sep-06 203821 324082 747700.5 9842 13573 47325
13-Sep-06 201516 312925 851818.8 10410 14309 45132
12-Sep-06 196498 335082 745619.1 9833 13666 46392
11-Sep-06 209289 336182 839281.1 10379 12863 45583
10-Sep-06 409191 625994 2062518.4 13935 17709 52676
9-Sep-06 269421 405918 864911.9 12532 16186 43229
8-Sep-06 202699 284114 804461.3 11030 12696 44972
7-Sep-06 206305 295294 691457.7 10033 12213 41159
6-Sep-06 207104 305250 878357.6 10524 13019 43622
5-Sep-06 197182 351246 804821.7 9657 14093 46539
4-Sep-06 256976 446657 919921.4 12977 17975 52658
3-Sep-06 420230 626853 2105687.3 14292 18184 54224
2-Sep-06 280838 410124 913162.7 12331 16312 45185

[Sniper]

http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/3306/sites110806gg2.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
4wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[N 82 50 24]

Sniper,

Can you make a new Excel graph of the MTT data? I'm curious to see what sort of progress FTP and Stars are showing.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Sniper,

Can you make a new Excel graph of the MTT data? I'm curious to see what sort of progress FTP and Stars are showing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I didn't have a chance to do it last night... I'll put them up shortly.

[Sniper]

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/1264/mtt110706boa9.jpg

[Sniper]

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/618/mtt110706agx5.jpg

[N 82 50 24]

Wow, it looks like we're really starting to see some of the results of the shifting players

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, it looks like we're really starting to see some of the results of the shifting players

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree... just a heads up, I also x-posted the update to the MTTC thread.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
sniper would it be possible to start doing a line chart based on weekly avg or total online players

so right now for example we would have 4 data points starting with the week before legislation.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] does this chart from Sciolist show what you are looking for?...

http://www.esreality.com/files/inlineimages/2006/48310-temp3.jpg

[Sniper]

Other news this week...

William Hill has announced the surprise departure of Tom Singer, chief operating officer, with immediate effect. Singer had been with the company for six years.

Leisure &amp; Gaming has appointed Henry Birch as its new chief executive and has also chosen Corporate Synergy as its new advisors and brokers. The company also announced the detail of the sale of its US-facing operations to former chief executive Alistair Assheton and further fleshed out its future plans, revolving around its online and offline Italian Betshop business.

Payments processor FireOne has said it will take a US$78m hit following its exit from the US. Releasing its third quarter results, the company added that it will continue to offer its services to non-US online gambling customers.

BetonSports has sold its Asian-facing Hooball sportsbook and casino back to its original founders for US$2.25m in cash. This follows the US Department of Justice’s (DoJ) temporary restraining order on its US-facing business imposed in July. The purchaser has agreed to return 3,859,089 shares that were issued at the time of the BetonSports acquisition, and to cancel the outstanding consideration of US$5m. Any future earnouts were also cancelled. Hooball was acquired in May 2006 for an initial consideration of US$22m, with US$10m paid in cash, and integrated into the BetonSports-owned Malaysia-based Easybets infrastructure. BetonSports said the price of the sale was due to its inability to pay outstanding amounts related to the business and the DoJ’s actions. It said its other Asian-facing operations continued to trade as normal. BetonSports added it was in continued negotiations with the DoJ with the aim of settling all charges against the company.

Empire Online chief executive Noam Lanir has acquired 30 million Empire shares at 41p per share. Lanir already owns 32.6% of the business. A company called Awn International sold 30 million Empire shares and still owns 10.3% of the business.

Tropical poker has signed ex-Playboy model Cindy Margolis as a brand representative.

[Sniper]

BetonSports to close US operations

BetonSports has agreed a Permanent Injunction with the District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri in relation to its US-facing business.
This replaces the temporary restraining order imposed on the firm by US authorities in July and means the company will close all its US operations and its Costa Rica and Antiguan offices.

BetonSports said it would hand back all outstanding funds to its US customers but said this would depend on “collections of monies and other debtors”. The company said it had agreed to the new injunction on the basis of legal advice in the US and the UK and saw it as a major step to settle all outstanding criminal action against BetonSports.

In a statement released yesterday, the District Court for the Eastern District of Missouri said “its findings supporting the Permanent Injunction were based upon the record of the firm’s and its associates’ criminal conduct. A record that BetonSports did not challenge”. BetonSports meanwhile said that while it had agreed to the injunction, it was “important to note that this has been done without the company admitting to or contesting any of the allegations contained within the complaint”. BetonSports added it was in continued negotiations with the DoJ with the aim of settling all charges against the company.

On Thursday, BetonSports sold its Asian-facing Hooball sportsbook and casino back to its original founders for US$2.25m (£1.2m) in cash. The purchaser agreed to return 3,859,089 shares that were issued at the time of the BetonSports acquisition, and to cancel the outstanding consideration of US$5m. Any future earnouts were also cancelled.

Hooball was acquired in May 2006 for an initial consideration of US$22m, with US$10m paid in cash, and integrated into the BetonSports-owned Malaysia-based Easybets infrastructure. BetonSports said the price of the sale was due to its inability to pay outstanding amounts related to the business and the DoJ’s actions. It said its other Asian-facing operations continued to trade as normal.

[Sniper]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6053/sites110906vz8.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
4wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation passed
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

Well that's interesting... seems we've closed the Thursday pre-bill gap.

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
Well that's interesting... seems we've closed the Thursday pre-bill gap.

[/ QUOTE ]
That is an encouraging sign, but the average player counts tell a different story. We're still down 13% from the high point in September.

Date -- Average Players
8/24/2006 -- 35783
8/31/2006 -- 35776
9/7/2006 -- 37661
9/14/2006 -- 36884
9/21/2006 -- 36198
9/28/2006 -- 36745
10/5/2006 -- 34709
10/12/2006 -- 33522
10/19/2006 -- 32159
10/26/2006 -- 33144
11/2/2006 -- 33025
11/9/2006 -- 32781

The market is now more segmented between Europe and North America, so the daily peaks are narrower and the average-to-peak ratio is lower than it used to be.

[Sniper]

TRIBECA NEWS ALERT
Tribeca Tables has withdrawn from the US market, it said in a statement this evening.
The decision comes after Tribeca held lengthy discussions with its attorneys about the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. The company will now focus on non-US markets.

Erik Ahlberg, newly-appointed president of Tribeca Tables, said: “We are now initiating this policy and will work closely with our customers to ensure as little harm as possible to their overall business.”

European managing director Steve Cook added that the company and its board had “taken a considerable amount of time to weigh up all the options and sought a great deal of legal and market advice. Sadly we have no alternative. We have concluded that it is the best way forward for the company.”

Tribeca’s two largest US-facing licencees are Doyle’s Room and Golden Palace. According to internet press reports Golden Palace has also decided to refuse taking casino bets from the US.

Tribeca said it would also not be taking bets from Israel and Hong Kong players and will make further announcements about its network in due course.

[BluffTHIS!]

Sniper,

You got a link? Probably should be posted in its own thread. Do you know if they are a public or private company?


edit: just saw you posted it in the zoo.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Sniper,

You got a link? Probably should be posted in its own thread. Do you know if they are a public or private company?


edit: just saw you posted it in the zoo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just for you Bluff... Link to seperate Legislation thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8003432)

[Sniper]

Lee Jones post re: Stars new MTT schedule starting Monday (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8004668)

[Sniper]

Here's the official Tribeca announcement from their site (http://www.tribecatables.com/tribeca_us_market_withdrawal.html) ...

London, November 10th - Following a long period of consultation with it's gaming attorneys, Tribeca Tables Europe, Limited, the online poker solutions company, has announced that the company has decided to withdraw it's poker room from certain territories; specifically the US, Israel, and Hong Kong markets.

In light of the recent introduction in the US regarding the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006" and in line with most other responsible networks and poker operators, the company will focus on more non US territories and new markets. Tribeca will endeavour to assist it's US facing clients in particular with the transition as much as possible. Players do not need to worry as the transition will take several months to implement.

Erik Ahlberg, new President of Tribeca Tables said, "We are now initiating this policy and will work closely with our customers to ensure as little harm as possible to their overall business".

Steve Cook, European managing director added, "The board have taken a considerable amount of time to weigh up all of the options and sought a great deal of legal and market advice. We had agonized over the decision for several weeks, but sadly we have no alternative. We have concluded that it is the best way forward for the company".

Tribeca's portfolio of brands still includes many European facing brands such as Sporting Index, Paddy Power, Blue Sq, Victor Chandler, and with the recent merger with Tain, the addition of Expekt.com and its other skins.

The company also intends to make a further announcement regarding its poker network in due course.

[Sniper]

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8093/sites111006ta2.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
5wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/1637/sites111106uh5.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
5wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
Lee Jones post re: Stars new MTT schedule starting Monday (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8004668)

[/ QUOTE ]
It'll be interesting to see if this changes what happens with the total prizepool &amp; number of MTT entries. I haven't really analysed this as closely as I will need to, but it looks like both should be higher to me.

[Sniper]

Playtech acquires Tribeca (http://www.playtech.com/html/main.php?page=41&amp;id=110)

Looks like they will migrate all non-US Tribeca &amp; Tain sites to the playtech platform over the next 6 months... this could move them into the #4 slot.

Scout, can you post a graph of the intraday traffic on ipoker, tain, and Tribeca? Thx

[Sniper]

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/8386/sites111206wb3.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
5wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

Looks like FCP got into a little trouble with Ongame today, and hints of a new Network (excerpted from a post (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=80295) by FCP's poker mgr on the FCP forum)...

As some of you have already experienced, FCP’s poker software is currently unavailable for real money play. Full Contact Poker is working on a technical issue related to its compliance with Ongame’s block of US players. We plan to have our poker software back up and available to Non-US players by Tuesday or Wednesday.

On a separate note, Full Contact Poker’s transition from the Ongame Network to its new poker software provider has been delayed with a new launch plan.

It has taken a few of the other large poker sites longer than expected to separate from their previous networks, causing this new poker network to delay its official launch until December. However, FCP has been granted the opportunity to transition ALL of its players (along with a few other poker sites) onto a Beta version of this new poker network software within a week or two. During this Beta period, the number of players on the network will be a lot smaller than you will find in December, which means fewer ring games and smaller tournaments, but we encourage you to use this time to play on the new network and to let us know what playing features and functions you would like to see added or modified.

Until FCP transitions all of its players to the new network for this Beta opportunity, Non-US players will still be able to play through the Ongame network.

We wish we could tell you more specifics about the new network, like the name and the other sites joining FCP, but we must wait until the official announcement is made public by the network itself.

[Sniper]

UB software upgrade Tuesday morning...

We're upgrading your experience - November 13, 2006

Our software will be unavailable for play between 5am ET and 9am ET on Tuesday, November 14th, 2006. But don’t worry. We’ll be back.

We’re performing a scheduled software upgrade to add some exciting new features and games that will make your poker experience even more fantasmagorical. The new games include Razz, Horse, Hose, Half No Limit Holde’em/Half Omaha, and Bounty Tournaments.

Tournaments will be unavailable for play beginning at 1am ET. We’ll be back online at 9am ET on Tuesday, November 14th, 2006 and all tournaments will resume at 10am ET.

When you log back in on Tuesday morning, look for the new games, tournaments and other fancy upgrades.

[dragonystic]

that 5 wk change is lookin pretty good. only down 1600. could be a lot worse. ^_^

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like FCP got into a little trouble with Ongame today, and hints of a new Network (excerpted from a post (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=80295) by FCP's poker mgr on the FCP forum)...

As some of you have already experienced, FCP’s poker software is currently unavailable for real money play. Full Contact Poker is working on a technical issue related to its compliance with Ongame’s block of US players. We plan to have our poker software back up and available to Non-US players by Tuesday or Wednesday.

On a separate note, Full Contact Poker’s transition from the Ongame Network to its new poker software provider has been delayed with a new launch plan.

It has taken a few of the other large poker sites longer than expected to separate from their previous networks, causing this new poker network to delay its official launch until December. However, FCP has been granted the opportunity to transition ALL of its players (along with a few other poker sites) onto a Beta version of this new poker network software within a week or two. During this Beta period, the number of players on the network will be a lot smaller than you will find in December, which means fewer ring games and smaller tournaments, but we encourage you to use this time to play on the new network and to let us know what playing features and functions you would like to see added or modified.

Until FCP transitions all of its players to the new network for this Beta opportunity, Non-US players will still be able to play through the Ongame network.

We wish we could tell you more specifics about the new network, like the name and the other sites joining FCP, but we must wait until the official announcement is made public by the network itself.


[/ QUOTE ]

I find it encouraging that a new network (apparently) is forming. I like seeing proactive attempts to grab the US market, rather than some sort of NASCAR-like game of attrition.

[N 82 50 24]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Lee Jones post re: Stars new MTT schedule starting Monday (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8004668)

[/ QUOTE ]
It'll be interesting to see if this changes what happens with the total prizepool &amp; number of MTT entries. I haven't really analysed this as closely as I will need to, but it looks like both should be higher to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
Based on some early numbers it looks like this will be the case.

I expect to see some big numbers out of FTP due to the FTOPS also, but obviously something like that isn't really permanent.

[villafan]

What happened to the Ongame network? I see the player number has fallen to 1725 the 13.th of November. Is there a mistake or have the Futurebet sites already exited and had a huge impact on the player base?

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to the Ongame network? I see the player number has fallen to 1725 the 13.th of November.

[/ QUOTE ]
What happened is that we got locked out along with the rest of the U.S. We can't see the real money games to count them.

We're hoping to have a solution to this problem soon.

[Sniper]

Scout are you having the same problem with Ladbrokes?

[Sniper]

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/7158/sites111306mk5.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
5wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

We know we have an issue with the Ongame data... I'm open to suggestions on how to display it during this time, so it doesn't impact the total tracking?

My thought is to just display last weeks data for the day in the current column for the problematic sites, until we have good data again... thoughts?

[villafan]

It looks like Paradise is history. Yesterday they had 564 players at peak, and I would guess they have even less players today.

I wonder how their mother company Sportingbet will handle this financially.

* They recently had to pay 33,3 million dollars in cash to the former Paradise owners (lol, success fee pre US ban).

* They will incur costs (writedowns) at £210 million due to the US legislation, but Paradise will still be valued at 63 million pounds in the Sportingbet books.

* They have just lost their chairman and director.


I think Sportinbet/Paradise is out of business in a few months. There are no pieces to pick up.

[Sniper]

It will be interesting to see if the UB update HH issue (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8042881) impacts traffic there.

[Sniper]

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/6374/sites111406vw7.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
5wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Grey = Data not available, last weeks data used
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

Worth noting... 7 day avg for Full Tilt passed 7 day avg for Party.

[Sniper]

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9969/sites111506jh3.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
5wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Grey = Data not available, last weeks data used
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

If Party's number is accurate, that would be the lowest recorded peak count at Party...

[The_Scout]

[ QUOTE ]
If Party's number is accurate, that would be the lowest recorded peak count at Party...

[/ QUOTE ]
It may be a glitch. We were having problems with the Party client freezing up yesterday, but I think it's under control now.

On a positive note, Ongame is now back up and running.

Ladbrokes is a separate issue. A change to their software is forcing us to completely rethink our data gathering process, but I'm hopeful we'll manage it ... eventually.

[Sniper]

Thx Scout, I was beginning to think that the recent Party update put 2400 seats worth of bots out of commission while they were modified to deal with the new presentation issues introduced in the update.

[mackem]

It had me thinking if all the European's logged off Party for International Football night for a minute there with England etc playing Wednesday night.

[Sciolist]

[ QUOTE ]
My thought is to just display last weeks data for the day in the current column for the problematic sites, until we have good data again... thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]
I just use the last seven day average before I lost data where I have gaps in my records.

[Sniper]

Scout... any projections on how long you will be down for maintenance?

[The_Scout]

We're back up now, and we're getting data from Ladbrokes again.

[Sniper]

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/7730/sites111606zy7.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
5wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Grey = Data not available, last weeks data used
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[Sniper]

Well looking at Thursday data again... this week we are net positive compared to the Thursday before the bill was signed.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
Well looking at Thursday data again... this week we are net positive compared to the Thursday before the bill was signed.

[/ QUOTE ]

That didn't take long /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Grim Rapper]

[ QUOTE ]
Well looking at Thursday data again... this week we are net positive compared to the Thursday before the bill was signed.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sites with the biggest percentage growth of American players aren't even listed.

PSS is flawed data to go by. Incomplete information is worse than wrong information.

You buckeyes think tracking incomplete data means anything? Ha~ So where have the American players that seemed to drop off the face of the world gone? At the sites PSS won't include in their base of sites.

Sick to think so many people give them so much cred when they don't deserve it.

Until they at least list the top 10 US friendly sites, I suggest nobody use their data for anything meaningful when it comes to tracking player numbers.

[Sniper]

Grim, You never answered the question in the Zoo thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8069784) , about which network you are talking about?

BTW, I strongly disagree with you... Incomplete information is far more useful than No information!

[5thStreetHog]

[ QUOTE ]
Grim, You never answered the question in the Zoo thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8069784) , about which network you are talking about?

BTW, I strongly disagree with you... Incomplete information is far more useful than No information!

[/ QUOTE ]He wont answer the question,because he has no relative arguement.He just likes being a distraction.

[Sniper]

Possible 1st word on what the "new" network will be called... Digital Gaming Network (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8086237)

Anyone else hearing anything?

[Eponymous]

[ QUOTE ]
Grim, You never answered the question in the Zoo thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Number=8069784) , about which network you are talking about?

BTW, I strongly disagree with you... Incomplete information is far more useful than No information!

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly...we wouldn't be poker players if we didn't understand the value of incomplete information. Leaders in business and other pursuits know this as well. One rule of thumb is you make decsions when you have 80% information because you'll be paralyzed and passed by if you wait for 100%.

[Grim Rapper]

[ QUOTE ]
One rule of thumb is you make decsions when you have 80% information because you'll be paralyzed and passed by if you wait for 100%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could just take the 20% of information that is available and use it to your advantage over those who make incorrect assumptions based on incomplete information.

All I'm asking is for PSS to list the top ten U.S. friendly sites/networks. Especially the ones that are bigger than what they have now. What reason is there for not doing so?

If they aren't willing to do so for whatever reasons, then quit using their numbers to make incorrect assumptions based on their incomplete numbers.

2+2+X doesn't equal 4, and that's exactly what you state as truth right now.

[Sniper]

Grim... if you would like to provide information on sites that aren't listed, then please do so... attacking Scout for not collecting information from all sites, is a little silly.

His information (coupled with that from thePokerdb and Sharkscope), as well as additional info in this thread provided by others, is the best available information for evaluating the impact of the legislation.

I know for a fact, that not only are the sites monitoring this information, as well as industry analysts, but Party's CEO even mentioned Scout's site in their last investor conference call.

The data collectors, should be applauded for their efforts, not attacked as you seem to want to do...

[Sniper]

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6533/sites111706wt4.jpg

Raw data sourced from PokerSiteScout (http://www.pokersitescout.com) , with permission.

Daily data represents the 24 hour peak Active Real Money Ring Game seats, at each site/network.
Sept Peak represents the max peak at each site across the entire month of September.
1wk Change: Day of Week difference from last week (ie Sat vs Sat last week) for last listed day
6wk Change: Day of week difference compared to the week before the legislation was signed (10/13)
Color Coding: Green(+) and Red(-) represents increase or decrease from previous day
Grey = Data not available, last weeks data used
7 day avg: Avg of last 7 day's peaks. Sites sorted by 7 day avg. Blue = 7 Day Avg &gt; Sept Peak.

[JimNashe]

Absolute seems to crawling steadily up the chart.