Party Monster Cash equivalent?

[JediMindTrix]

Based on total for final of 14.4 million (approx what it is right now), the fair cash equivalent should be

$100 for weekly entry

$350 for monthy entry

$1800 for finals entry

Any word on if, when and what will actually be reimbursed?

[Sniper]

Based on CS responses to this question, that have been posted, Party is saying at the moment that they will not discuss the formula they will use...

[Nicok7]

this cash equivalent would be based on 8000 runners for the grand final, wich there wasn't, it should be much higher otherwise Party would pocker most of the price pool!

[Vern]

[ QUOTE ]
We have scheduled maintenance between 10:00 and 13:00 ET. We apologize for any inconvenience caused.

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[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
Based on total for final of 14.4 million (approx what it is right now), the fair cash equivalent should be

$100 for weekly entry

$350 for monthy entry

$1800 for finals entry

Any word on if, when and what will actually be reimbursed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you get these LOW numbers?

There are 1000 final tickets out *1800 = 1.8 million
Maybe 10k Monthlies * 350 = 3.5 million
And if there are 30k Weeklies* 100 = 3 million

Thats 6.1 million short.

Also add $125 for monthlies and $12.5 for weeklies as the prizepool divided by 8000.

Please do not give Party any more stupid ideas of shortchanging us!

ToT

[Reef]

still can't believe I missed getting into the final event and am now gonna be screwed as a result.

[w_alloy]

[ QUOTE ]
still can't believe I missed getting into the final event and am now gonna be screwed as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've payed over 3k in monster rake (havent checked in a while could be 4 or 5) and I havent gotten anything. Not even one freeroll entrance.

[DuderinoAB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Based on total for final of 14.4 million (approx what it is right now), the fair cash equivalent should be

$100 for weekly entry

$350 for monthy entry

$1800 for finals entry

Any word on if, when and what will actually be reimbursed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you get these LOW numbers?

There are 1000 final tickets out *1800 = 1.8 million
Maybe 10k Monthlies * 350 = 3.5 million
And if there are 30k Weeklies* 100 = 3 million

Thats 6.1 million short.

Also add $125 for monthlies and $12.5 for weeklies as the prizepool divided by 8000.

Please do not give Party any more stupid ideas of shortchanging us!

ToT

[/ QUOTE ]

Also keep in mind that the weeklies and monthlies are not taken out of the main pool. That SHOULD be exclusively rewarded to the final entrants minus any equity that is given to weeklies and monthlies for potential final entries. The 100k and 1 mill amounts should not be deducted from the final total.

[Klompy]

Anyone know when they'll be telling us what we're going to get paid?

[DuderinoAB]

probably in about 6 years...

[ImOnWheels]

i qualed for the Final and I think everyone is dreaming if Party is paying any U.S. player for the fair value of the final. They come off as so shady it's redic. Stars here I come!!

[fyodor]

I imagine Party will pay everyone including US players fairly. Although their idea of fair will likely include pulling out the original $6m in seed money as they will not be getting the tv exposure they expected from all the live final tables around the world. That still leaves $8m to be divied up.

I can see them waiting a week or two before paying so as to formulate the best plan possible to give the American players a chance to wager their payout at some kind of a Party site.

[solucky]

Monster cost me 60 $ and still got 600$ + a final and a monthly tick...so lets see.

[DuderinoAB]

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine Party will pay everyone including US players fairly. Although their idea of fair will likely include pulling out the original $6m in seed money as they will not be getting the tv exposure they expected from all the live final tables around the world. That still leaves $8m to be divied up.

I can see them waiting a week or two before paying so as to formulate the best plan possible to give the American players a chance to wager their payout at some kind of a Party site.

[/ QUOTE ]

The seed was 5 mill...but yeah I can see that. Whether that is fair or not is debatable. Tough to tell really.

[fishy75]

well since 1000 qualified for the final already they should split 7.2 million, and the rest of us with monthly and weekly entries should split the rest with the monthly getting 10 times more than a weekly.

[joe c]

Cash values for each freeroll (not taking into account any future value):

Grand final: ( $14,405,786 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $1,800.72 per player

Monthly: ( $1,000,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $125.00 per player

Weekly: ( $100,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $12.50 per player

Probability of advancing from one tournament to another:

Weekly to Monthly = ( 2,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 4

Monthly to Grand Final = ( 1,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 8


Future values for each freeroll:

Value of a Monthly freeroll to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * $125 = $31.25

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * ( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $ 56.27

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Monthly freeroll

( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $225.09


Total value for each unused freeroll:

Weekly: $12.50 + $31.25 + $56.27 = $100.02

Monthly: $125+$$225.09 = $350.09

Grand Final: = $1,800.72

edit, whoever estimated that was extremely close

[SteveM]

[ QUOTE ]
Based on total for final of 14.4 million (approx what it is right now), the fair cash equivalent should be

$100 for weekly entry

$350 for monthy entry

$1800 for finals entry

Any word on if, when and what will actually be reimbursed?

[/ QUOTE ]

It has happened. I just converted my unused freerolls to cash for the values above. I'm happily surprised!

[ThomB]

[ QUOTE ]
Cash values for each freeroll (not taking into account any future value):

Grand final: ( $14,405,786 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $1,800.72 per player

Monthly: ( $1,000,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $125.00 per player

Weekly: ( $100,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $12.50 per player

Probability of advancing from one tournament to another:

Weekly to Monthly = ( 2,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 4

Monthly to Grand Final = ( 1,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 8


Future values for each freeroll:

Value of a Monthly freeroll to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * $125 = $31.25

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * ( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $ 56.27

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Monthly freeroll

( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $225.09


Total value for each unused freeroll:

Weekly: $12.50 + $31.25 + $56.27 = $100.02

Monthly: $125+$$225.09 = $350.09

Grand Final: = $1,800.72

edit, whoever estimated that was extremely close

[/ QUOTE ]


There are only 1000 people registered for the Grand Final, so by your calculation Party will keep most of the prize pool as 7000 people will not be paid out!

[PBJaxx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Based on total for final of 14.4 million (approx what it is right now), the fair cash equivalent should be

$100 for weekly entry

$350 for monthy entry

$1800 for finals entry

Any word on if, when and what will actually be reimbursed?

[/ QUOTE ]

It has happened. I just converted my unused freerolls to cash for the values above. I'm happily surprised!

[/ QUOTE ]

I just did the same. At a glance, I think party did a fair job. 1 monthly entry = $350.09.

Not too shabby. Now I wish I could have acutally played in the Sept monthly (prior commitment). I am sure the final is worth some pretty big bucks ($350 * 8?).

-Jaxx

[SteveM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cash values for each freeroll (not taking into account any future value):

Grand final: ( $14,405,786 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $1,800.72 per player

Monthly: ( $1,000,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $125.00 per player

Weekly: ( $100,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $12.50 per player

Probability of advancing from one tournament to another:

Weekly to Monthly = ( 2,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 4

Monthly to Grand Final = ( 1,000 players advancing / 8,000 players advancing ) = 1 out of 8


Future values for each freeroll:

Value of a Monthly freeroll to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * $125 = $31.25

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * ( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $ 56.27

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Monthly freeroll

( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $225.09


Total value for each unused freeroll:

Weekly: $12.50 + $31.25 + $56.27 = $100.02

Monthly: $125+$$225.09 = $350.09

Grand Final: = $1,800.72

edit, whoever estimated that was extremely close

[/ QUOTE ]


There are only 1000 people registered for the Grand Final, so by your calculation Party will keep most of the prize pool as 7000 people will not be paid out!

[/ QUOTE ]

This money "missing" from the Grand Final payout is distributed among the people who hold unused weekly and monthly freeroll tickets. Seems fair, IMO. Flame away.

[PBJaxx]

They announced it:

Total value for each unused freeroll:

Weekly: $12.50 + $31.25 + $56.27 = $100.02

Monthly: $125+$$225.09 = $350.09

Grand Final: = $1,800.72

It appears that they left the $5 million in seed money there. I am pleasantly surprised at that. Go get your money.

-Jaxx

[solucky]

Could be a little bit more, but 2800 $ is a nice day for a 25 PL player..exspecially paid 60$ for the ticks.

[messi17]

How can you be satisfied with these amounts, Party is stealing our money. They should have paid out the monsterfinal minus seed ~ 9.5mill plus the 125usd for each player holding a monthly freeroll and 12.5usd for each player holding a weekly freeroll. That would amount to ~11.5mill usd. They only paid out 8mill usd. So they are stealing 3.5mill. You don't care?

[NewGuy]

For those of you happy with the Party conversion of Monster seats to $s, I respectfully disagree.

Unless I miscalculated, they held a LARGE portion of the $s back, since they calculated it based on 8,000 Grand Final seats. Since there were only 1,000 won so far, and only 10,000 monthly seats + some unknown # of weekly seats this was grossly unfair.

What they paid
1,000 Grand Final x $1,800 = $1.8 Million
10,000 Monthly x $350 = $3.5 M
~10,000 Weekly x $100 = $1.0 M

Total =$6.3 M paid (out of $14.5M pool)




Here is a draft of the email I am planning on sending to vip@partypoker.com / info@partypoker.com / whatever emails anyone suggests, as well as following up with phone call(s) to VIP. If anyone thinks I'm off, please correct me.



To: Whoever is in charge of distributing the PartyPoker Monster prize Pool
Subject: Actual “fair value” calculation methodology for Monster seats

Executive Summary:
A large group of players in the 2+2 community agrees that the approximate “fair” expected value of Monster seat payouts are as follows below.

Grand Finale (May 2007) seats value = ~$5,000
Monthly seats value = ~$750
Weekly seats value = ~$200

Please note that these estimates are based on final prize pool of $14.5 Million and 10,000 weekly Monster seats left outstanding. To the extent there are fewer weekly seats, these values would increase correspondingly.


Detailed Calculation methodology:

Let W$ = Weekly seat $ value
M$= Monthly seat $ value
GF$ = Grand Final seat $ value

- 8,000 Monthly seats -> 1,000 Grand Final seats + $1 Million , therefore M$ = (GF$ x 1,000 + $1,000,000) / 8000 = 1/8 GF$ + $125
- 8,000 Weekly seats -> 2,000 Monthly seats + $100k, therefore W$ = (M$ x 2,000 + $100,000) / 8000 = 1/4 M$ + $12.50.
- Substitute 1/8 GF $ + $125 for M$ into above and you get W$ = 1/4 (1/8 GF + $125) + $12.50 = 1/32 GF$ + $43.75

So to sum up values that we know:
W$ = 1/32 GF$ + $137.50
M$ = 1/8 GF$ + $125
Total Prize Pool = ~$14.5 Million
# of Grand Final seats outstanding / to be paid = 1,000
# of Monthly seats to be paid = 10,000 (9 weekly qualifiers x 2,000 – 8,000 for 1 monthly run)
Weekly Seats outstanding / to be paid = ?

Formula for total prize pool distributed should be:
Total = Grand Final seats * GF$ + Monthly seats * M$ + Weekly Seats * W$

$14,500,000 = 1,000 * GF $ + 10,000 * (1/8 GF $ + $125) + WeeklySeats * (1/32 GF $ + $43.75)

Solving for GF $, we get:
$14,500,000 = GF$ * (1,000 + 1,250 + 1/32 WeeklySeats) + $1,250,000 + WeeklySeats * $43.75

$13,250,000 - WeeklySeats * $43.75 = GF $ * (2,250 + 1/32 * WeeklySeats)

GF $ = ($13,250,000 - WeeklySeats * $43.75) / (2,250 + 1/32 * WeeklySeats)


Final calculation
Plugging in a value of WeeklySeats = 10,000

Grand Final seat value = ($13,250,000 - $875,000) / (2,250 + 10,000 / 32) = $5,000
Monthly seat value = $750
Weekly seat value = 200

If weekly seats outstanding are only 4,000, then we get
Grand Final seat value = ($13,250,000 - $875,000) / (2,250 + 4,000 / 32) = $5,505
Monthly seat value = $813
Weekly seat value = $216

If weekly seats outstanding are 20,000, then we get
Grand Final seat value = ($13,250,000 - $875,000) / (2,250 + 20,000 / 32) = $4,304
Monthly seat value = $663
Weekly seat value = $173

[Cards201]

Have they stated when the payout will be done?

Also, Have they said anything about the Bad Beat Jackpot that was up to almost $500k when stopped?

Thanks,
Cards

/First Post

[Noose]

Soooo... I've paid about $5k's to the Monster and now I'm getting $350 of it back.

I've never been any math whiz, but even I can understand that something doesn't really add up here.

[Klompy]

[ QUOTE ]
Have they stated when the payout will be done?


[/ QUOTE ]

You can do it anytime, in your party account you have to click on something to convert your entry into money

[LozColbert]

Are they planning on paying out the unused weekly entries? That'd be hot, because that's free money to me!

[crzylgs]

[ QUOTE ]
How can you be satisfied with these amounts, Party is stealing our money. They should have paid out the monsterfinal minus seed ~ 9.5mill plus the 125usd for each player holding a monthly freeroll and 12.5usd for each player holding a weekly freeroll. That would amount to ~11.5mill usd. They only paid out 8mill usd. So they are stealing 3.5mill. You don't care?

[/ QUOTE ]
Frankly, I'm happy that I'm getting anything out of them. I went out of my way to qualify for as many monthlies as possible, and I'm glad I'm not being punished for that now.

[PBJaxx]

[ QUOTE ]
How can you be satisfied with these amounts, Party is stealing our money. They should have paid out the monsterfinal minus seed ~ 9.5mill plus the 125usd for each player holding a monthly freeroll and 12.5usd for each player holding a weekly freeroll. That would amount to ~11.5mill usd. They only paid out 8mill usd. So they are stealing 3.5mill. You don't care?

[/ QUOTE ]

I replied in another thread started by New Guy. I did not take into account that there were only 1000 players qualified for the final. I have since ran through the numbers independently, and I am not satisfied. I doubt party will do anything about it, but we should all send emails to see what we can get done.

-Jaxx

[fyodor]

Go to "my account"
-> Events & Promotions
-> PartyPoker Monster

Shows what tickets you have and gives you option to convert to cash

Frankly I think we were ripped off. I think my Final entry was worth at least double the $1800 I received. On the other hand they paid off a lot quicker than I thought they would.

[Cards201]

/EDIT got it... Thanks.

I see nothing anywhere to convert my 2 weekly and 1 monthlys to cash. Has anyone done this yet and can point me where to go (click)?

thanks again,
Cards

[Joe Taylor]

Start Client software. Click on "My Account". Under "Promotions & Events", click on Monster (the only option there). Screen will come up with information about conversion.

[stockguy22]

thanks guys for the posting.
Just got my $350.09 for the Monthly Million Qualifier,

You guys are too good. You have to go to the link on your account for monster qualifier to claim the money.

Here is the link:
https://secure.partyaccount.com/monster/ppoker_monster.htm


Hope that helps,

Good luck
stockguy22

[dgillyerek]

what are these entries in transaction history?

13-Oct-06 11:02 ET Compensatory Freeroll Issued $00.00 78737883 Success
13-Oct-06 11:02 ET Compensatory Freeroll Issued $00.00 78737884 Success

[Right5]

Wow $650, Nice (even though I paid thousands in rake, was expecitn a lot less from Party)

[Wools]

[ QUOTE ]
what are these entries in transaction history?

13-Oct-06 11:02 ET Compensatory Freeroll Issued $00.00 78737883 Success
13-Oct-06 11:02 ET Compensatory Freeroll Issued $00.00 78737884 Success

[/ QUOTE ]

Comp'd weekly freeroll entries, for whatever reason.

I had one also and cashed it out for $100 in addition to the $350 for my one monthly.

[NewGuy]

If anyone agrees Party underpaid and wants to email Party, feel free to use whatever you like from the email I just sent


Hello,

Please address this large underpayment for Party Monster Seats.

A large group of players in the 2+2 community agrees that the amount of money paid out as compensation for the Party Monster freerolls was grossly unfair.

The approximate fair / expected value of Monster seat payouts are as follows below.

Executive Summary:

Grand Finale (May 2007) seats value = ~$5,000 (vs $1,800 paid)
Monthly seats value = ~$750 (vs. $350 paid)
Weekly seats value = ~$200 (vs. $100 paid)

Please note that these estimates are based on final prize pool of $14.5 Million and 10,000 weekly Monster seats left outstanding. To the extent there are fewer weekly seats, these values would increase correspondingly.



Payouts (actual vs "Fair"):

What was actually paid by Party:
1,000 Grand Final x $1,800 = $1.8 Million
10,000 Monthly x $350 = $3.5 M
~10,000 Weekly x $100 = $1.0 M

Total Actual Paid = $6.3 Million
Fair Total Payment = $14.5 Million Monster Prize pool

Where did the other $8.2 Million promised to players go?


Detailed Calculation methodology:

Let W$ = Weekly seat $ value
M$= Monthly seat $ value
GF$ = Grand Final seat $ value

- 8,000 Monthly seats -> 1,000 Grand Final seats + $1 Million , therefore M$ = (GF$ x 1,000 + $1,000,000) / 8000 = 1/8 GF$ + $125
- 8,000 Weekly seats -> 2,000 Monthly seats + $100k, therefore W$ = (M$ x 2,000 + $100,000) / 8000 = 1/4 M$ + $12.50.
- Substitute 1/8 GF $ + $125 for M$ into above and you get W$ = 1/4 (1/8 GF + $125) + $12.50 = 1/32 GF$ + $43.75

So to sum up values that we know:
W$ = 1/32 GF$ + $137.50
M$ = 1/8 GF$ + $125
Total Prize Pool = ~$14.5 Million
# of Grand Final seats outstanding / to be paid = 1,000
# of Monthly seats to be paid = 10,000 (9 weekly qualifiers x 2,000 – 8,000 for 1 monthly run)
Weekly Seats outstanding / to be paid = ?

Formula for total prize pool distributed should be:
Total = Grand Final seats * GF$ + Monthly seats * M$ + Weekly Seats * W$

$14,500,000 = 1,000 * GF $ + 10,000 * (1/8 GF $ + $125) + WeeklySeats * (1/32 GF $ + $43.75)

Solving for GF $, we get:
$14,500,000 = GF$ * (1,000 + 1,250 + 1/32 WeeklySeats) + $1,250,000 + WeeklySeats * $43.75

$13,250,000 - WeeklySeats * $43.75 = GF $ * (2,250 + 1/32 * WeeklySeats)

GF $ = ($13,250,000 - WeeklySeats * $43.75) / (2,250 + 1/32 * WeeklySeats)


Final calculation
Plugging in a value of WeeklySeats = 10,000

Grand Final seat value = ($13,250,000 - $875,000) / (2,250 + 10,000 / 32) = $5,000
Monthly seat value = $750
Weekly seat value = 200

If weekly seats outstanding are only 4,000, then we get
Grand Final seat value = ($13,250,000 - $875,000) / (2,250 + 4,000 / 32) = $5,505
Monthly seat value = $813
Weekly seat value = $216

If weekly seats outstanding are 20,000, then we get
Grand Final seat value = ($13,250,000 - $875,000) / (2,250 + 20,000 / 32) = $4,304
Monthly seat value = $663
Weekly seat value = $173

[solucky]

Party canceled the whole promotion. From my understanding they add around 8 million so far..weeklys....monthlys and 5 Mill for the final. I guess in there calculation they want sell the TV-rights....thats history. So if they remove any added money we have ONLY 6,xx millions.....so i think the payout is not great but OK.

[utility]

[ QUOTE ]
Party canceled the whole promotion. From my understanding they add around 8 million so far..weeklys....monthlys and 5 Mill for the final. I guess in there calculation they want sell the TV-rights....thats history. So if they remove any added money we have ONLY 6,xx millions.....so i think the payout is not great but OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

i guess you have a point here.

but then they should state it like that, though.
but the calcualation that they put on their site are referring to the full 14M. and these are incorrect.

after all i think its ok, that they take back the money they invested on their own. but they should be honest about it.
on the other hand it is party....so what did we expect /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Mr_Blonde]

I can't see an option to convert to cash, did I just not qualify for anything? I paid a [censored] in monster rake ;\

[fishy75]

What messes everything up is

Grand final: ( $14,405,786 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $1,800.72 per player

this should be $40,405,785 / 2,000 players = $7000

[messi17]

@ solucky
They shouldal least payout the amount we paid in extra rake. That amount is 9.4mill.

[Wools]

Eh, could be better, could be worse. I sent an email to vip@ and bonus@, saying that the I appreciate the gesture and the calculations do make some sense, etc...but that I still felt shortchanged. I dont think this will make a difference, but if 15mins to write a coherent, thought out email might net me a couple hundred bucks, it's worth it.

[KaBoom]

Unreal. Thanks Stockguy for link. I just converted $500 worth of weekly freerolls that I had no intention of ever playing. Funny thing is I should have only had 2 freerolls that I got from playing on badbeat tables when jackpot hit. Wonder what the other 3 were but I'm not asking /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[braminc]

you guys expect too much from our 'friends' at party. im extremely surprised they even paid this much this fast. i got 2100 today for 7 weeklys and 4 monthlys unused. if id known it would be that easy, i wouldve been playing 6$ Monster Weekly Qualifier SNGs the last couple weeks exclusively.

I think the trick is that all the cash game players who paid all that rake arent getting any of it back, and all the SNG players who tried to qualify for as many weekly, monthly tourneys got extra value because of the increased Monster prize pool generated mainly from the cashgame rake.
does that make any sense?

[KaBoom]

Who cares. The party is over.

[SoloAJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Who cares.

[/ QUOTE ]

The people that are owed three times what they receieved?

[emptyshell]

[ QUOTE ]
Who cares. The party is over.

[/ QUOTE ]

[CUonCRUISE]

payout is ridiculous.
1000x1800=1.8m
10000x350=3.5m
@10000x100=1m
total=6.3m paid
grand finale pool over 14m, with the outstanding tickets they would need 2 weeklys 200k ad 2 monthlys run 2m. They should pay out over 16m. At least over 9m for what the players contributed to the final.

[Wools]

[ QUOTE ]
i got 2100 today for 7 weeklys and 4 monthlys unused. if id known it would be that easy, i wouldve been playing 6$ Monster Weekly Qualifier SNGs the last couple weeks exclusively.

I think the trick is that all the cash game players who paid all that rake arent getting any of it back, and all the SNG players who tried to qualify for as many weekly, monthly tourneys got extra value because of the increased Monster prize pool generated mainly from the cashgame rake.
does that make any sense?

[/ QUOTE ]

It makes sense because it's exactly what is happening; that's also the main argument I used when asking for more than they offered me.

[CaptainHighliner]

Using a different calculation than party and assuming there are 6000 outstanding monthly qualifiers (2000 from each of the three weeks since the last one) and 51000 outstanding weekies (the winners of which wold be enough to fill up 1.6 monthlies) I get a 9M prizepool (14M - 5M seed). Below are calculations I used:

Assumptions
t (total prize pool, 14M - 5M seed) = 9,000,000.00
f (total final tickets outstanding) = 1,000.00
m (total monthly tickets outstanding) = 6,000.00
w (total weekly tickets outstanding) = 51,000.00
x (value of final ticket) = 1,800.00


Ticket - Free Roll - Calculation - Per Ticket EV - - Net EV
Final - Final - x - 1,800.00 - *f - 1,800,000.00 -
Monthly - Final - x/8 - 225.00 - *m - 1,350,000.00 -
Weekly - Final - x/8/4 - 56.25 - *w - 2,868,750.00 -
Monthly - Monthly - 1,000,000/8,000 - 125.00 - *m -750,000.00 -
Weekly - Monthly - 1,000,000/8,000/4 - 31.25 - *w -1,593,750.00 -
Weekly - Weekly - 100,000/8 - 12.50 - *w - 637,500.00 -
TOTAL - 9,000,000.00 -

The big assumption would be the 51000 weekies, not sure if this umber would be at all accurate but I think it may be close. Of the few people I know that play the qualifiers they each have quite a few weeklies stock piled.

What do you think?

[Sniper]

SO let me get this straight... people are complaining that party cheated on their distribution of the prize dollars... without even knowing how much was actually paid out? LOL

[fyodor]

[ QUOTE ]
SO let me get this straight... people are complaining that party cheated on their distribution of the prize dollars... without even knowing how much was actually paid out? LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL all you like. No one needs to know the actual numbers to know they were cheated. You just need to look at their formula:

[ QUOTE ]
Grand final: ( $14,405,786 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $1,800.72 per player

Monthly: ( $1,000,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $125.00 per player

Weekly: ( $100,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $12.50 per player


[/ QUOTE ]

Looking at the way they arrived at $1800 for a seat in the final is enough proof. They divide up the shares by assuming 8000 finalists even though there were only 1000 so far and not enough monthly qualifiers so far to fill the other 7000 seats.

It is simple enough to see from that where money was held back. How much was held back you can only know if you know exactly how many weekly and monthly tickets were still out there. But there was definitely some.

[braminc]

LOL all you like. No one needs to know the actual numbers to know they were cheated. You just need to look at their formula:

[ QUOTE ]
Grand final: ( $14,405,786 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $1,800.72 per player

Monthly: ( $1,000,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $125.00 per player

Weekly: ( $100,000 Prize Pool / 8,000 players ) = $12.50 per player


[/ QUOTE ]

Looking at the way they arrived at $1800 for a seat in the final is enough proof. They divide up the shares by assuming 8000 finalists even though there were only 1000 so far and not enough monthly qualifiers so far to fill the other 7000 seats.

It is simple enough to see from that where money was held back. How much was held back you can only know if you know exactly how many weekly and monthly tickets were still out there. But there was definitely some.

[/ QUOTE ]

those calculations above are wrong. they awarded ~100 for each weekly and 350 for each monthly.

the additional 88 dollars per weekly and $225 per monthly i believe makes up for the 7000 * 1800 dollars of cash that they appear to be keeping.

this extra money is obviously viewed as equity for each player having equal chance of making it to the next monster level.

[fyodor]

I'm aware of their entire formula. I just didn't bother to paste the whole thing. For the $14.4m the relevant parts are:


[ QUOTE ]
Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Weekly freeroll

( 1 out of 4 ) * ( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $ 56.27

Value of a Grand Final entry to a player with a Monthly freeroll

( 1 out of 8 ) * $1,800.72 = $225.09


Grand Final: = $1,800.72


[/ QUOTE ]

We know 1000 people got the $1800.
Do you really believe all the $225's and $56's added up to the other 7000 x $1800?

If that were the case then if they had waited one more day before cancelling there wouldn't have been enough money to pay any new qualifiers. Remember it the prize fund gets bigger everyone's share should get bigger.

Someone with better math skills than myself should be able to demonstrate this in very simple terms.

The formula used by Party only works if they had already reached the maximum amount of qualifiers for each step.

[legalplayer]

It seems to me we can't tell if the payout is correct until we know the total number of weekly and monthly qualifiers that were existing and unused at the time the tournament was cancelled. Of course we do know the Grand Final numbers - it was 1000.

So, I sent a cordial email to empire poker at info@empirepoker.com requesting this data. Here is a copy of the letter:

[ QUOTE ]
Hello,

I am a player who won an entry into the Empire Poker / Party Poker Monster Grand Final online tournament. I have just digested the breakdown of how you calculated the $1,800.72 cash value of my entry (you posted your calculations at https://secure.partyaccount.com/monster/ppoker_monster.htm).



It appears that you are in error when you divide the Grand Final $14,405,786 Prize Pool by 8,000 players to arrive at the $1,800.72 per player value, since there are in fact only 1000 players who had qualified for it at the time you cancelled the tournaments.



I believe the fair and accurate way to value this is to assume that all of the pending weekly and monthly qualifiers would have ultimately resulted in one more group of 1000 making it to the Grand Final. So, at most half of the $14,405,786 Prize Pool should be allocated to them and the other half should go to the existing 1000 Grand Final qualifiers. Thus, $7,200,000 should be distributed fairly to the weekly and monthly qualifiers who existed at the time the tournament was cancelled. The remaining $7,200,000 should be divided equally amongst the 1000 players who had qualified for the Grand Final at the time you cancelled the tournaments. Thus, my entry should be worth $7,200.



There is much confusion over this on the two plus two forums: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rt=all&vc=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7648956&page=0&fpart=all &vc=1)



I think it would help me understand this much better and perhaps even explain it to others on the forum if I had some additional information about the correct numbers of the various qualifiers from you so I can calculate what this all means. I know there were 1000 players who had qualified for the Grand Final at the time you cancelled the tournaments. Please tell me the total number of weekly qualifiers who existed at the time the tournament was cancelled and the total number of monthly qualifiers who existed at the time the tournament was cancelled. I assume this is not confidential since you had it all displayed in the game lobby up until you cancelled the tournaments. If the numbers you provide show that you are paying out the entire $14,405,786 Prize Pool, then it would be hard for anyone to dispute your formula. Conversely, if less than the $14,405,786 Prize Pool is being paid out, then there must be an error. Perhaps you could post this on the two plus two forum and clear up the present controversy.



I am sure you want to treat everyone fairly and maintain the pristine reputation you possess in the online gaming community. I assume if there has been an error, it was an honest one and I do not mean to question your integrity. I also recognize that my assumptions may be wrong or there may be factors I am not aware of at this time. If that is the case, please explain where I am mistaken.



Thank you and I look forward to your response.

[/ QUOTE ]Here is the reply I just got:

[ QUOTE ]
Unfortunately, the structure of the EmpirePoker.com Monster made it untenable to continue with the tournament once the act became law, and it was discontinued. We have converted pending Monster Freerolls into equivalent cash amounts. If you had any unused Monster Freerolls, you can log in to your My Account to convert them into cash and see how the amounts were calculated.

We came up with what we thought was a fair and equitable distribution for each unused freeroll. Thus the determined values of the monster freerolls will not be changed.

Thank you for choosing us as your online gaming site!

Sonia
Poker Customer Care

[/ QUOTE ]I see no valid reason not to make this data public. Indeed, the refusal is suspicious.

I urge everyone to make a similar demand to Empire and Party. Maybe they will give it if enough pressure and outrage is expressed. Let's get to the bottom of this and determine for sure if the payout is correct. Since Party is a public company I presume this data will ultimately be available in their financial statements so I don't think they can hide it forever, but I'd like to get it now.

I would welcome any ideas for a reply to her or advice on what I (we) should do next about this issue. One thing is for sure, if we don't do anything, no one else is going to do it for us.

[CUonCRUISE]

we do know there are 10000 monthlies and 1000 finals, how many weeklies can their be? Clearly they are paying out less then the 14+ million in the final pool. Ridiculous.

[HavanaBanana]

I am also in a process of rectifying this SCAM!
See the thread in internet forum.

Party has been informed that they can not steal 5-10 million from their customers without Poker Magazines, Online watchdogs, Gibraltarian authorities and the stock holders being informed.

ToT

[HavanaBanana]

Here are the fair payouts with an explanation,Party has defrauded the players for millions of dollars.

I think the original poster in THIS thread is a Party employee.


Fair Payouts here! (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7695404&page=0&vc=1&PHPS ESSID=#Post7695404)

ToT

Edited for spelling

[JediMindTrix]

LOL, Yah, right! I just had an accurate read on how they would define "cash equivalent" - you mean you didn't see it coming that way?

It assumes all tournies have max players, all players have equal chance of advancing/cashing: two assumptions obviously flawed, but how do you quantify that fairly and accurately?

There are many other ways to see this as unfair. If one deferred using weekly or monthly freerolls and was a better than avg player, then that is unfair, etc etc etc.

Having earned my 8 weekly and 5 monthly entries by playing $11 SNG, I still made a tidy profit.

Those who sat all day on the Monster 3/6 Limit until another 3/6 player hit the badbeat jackpot no doubt feel that they didn't get their money's worth for their weekly entry.

Yes, there would be ways, if they desired, to distribute any left over Monster rake in an equitable way, but they didn't and probably won't.

Learn to take your bad beats like a man.

[HavanaBanana]

Every 15c Monster rake paid towards the Monster entry was a ticket to win a seat, the same with each SnG Monster entry, if you didn't win on your ticket you have no gripe.


If they do not pay out the money the players paid in, it is fraud, nothing less.

I suggest you move to China, they like your kind there.

ToT

[DuderinoAB]

[ QUOTE ]
Every 15c Monster rake paid towards the Monster entry was a ticket to win a seat, the same with each SnG Monster entry, if you didn't win on your ticket you have no gripe.


If they do not pay out the money the players paid in, it is fraud, nothing less.

I suggest you move to China, they like your kind there.

ToT

[/ QUOTE ]

If China legalizes online gambling this may be a viable option...

[kap0504]

To Everyone That Has Qualified:

I have just signed up for this board, in order to voice my issue on the Party Poker Monster Grand Final Cash Equivalent Payout.

Here is what I know: We should disregard the payments made to the monthly qualifiers and to the weekly qualifiers, because they had nothing to do with the Grand Final Prize Pool. Each of their tournaments already had a set prize pool provided by PartyPoker, so that's where the money they're getting is from.

As far as those that have qualified for the FINAL, and have received $1800.72... here is what i think.

The prize pool was at $14.4 million when the tournament ended. If you subtract the $5 million seed PartyPoker started the Final with, that means the players of PartyPoker contirbuted $9.4 million to the tournament prizepool. Unfortunately, the 1,000 people that had qualified for the tournament each received only $1800.72, which totals only $1.8 million dollars.

My question to PartyPoker is: "Where has the other $7.6 million gone, if it is not being distributed to the players?" The majority of us had sat at cash games, with enromous rakes (because they were the majority of the tables that were offered by PP), and we gave up a lot of money on rake in order to make this jackpot bigger, and in order to qualify for the tournament. I believe it's unfair that they are taking $7.6 from us, right in front of our faces, and no one is complaining about it. We should have each gotten $9,400 instead of the measely $1,800 we've gotten.

I've emailed VIP@partypoker.com and made them aware of this, and expect the rest of you to do the same. If they do not have evidence and proof as to where that additional $7.6 million has gone, I will be enraged and will consider a legal pursuit.

Please let me know what you all think.
kap0504

[NewGuy]

A lot of people agree with you.

There's a (very long) thread going over in the Internet Gambling forum, feel free to add you take there.

monster thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7652457&an=0&page=0#Post 7652457)