Microgaming/Prima pulling out of Indiana?

[OrianasDaad]

Earlier this week, I got denied at a couple of online casinos due to being an Indiana resident.

I got e-mails from Trident, Fortune Lounge and Royal Vegas today, all indicating that I couldn't play due to being an Indiana resident.

Here's my e-mail from Trident.

[ QUOTE ]
The United States Congress has recently passed an Act affecting payments
for internet gambling that is expected to be signed into law sometime on
Friday, 13 October 2006.

And so, it is with much regret that we are to cease accepting wagers
and/or bets from players who are resident in Indiana in the United
States of America.

David, pending further consideration of this Act, your account and
the gaming software will no longer be accessible as of Friday, October 13,
2006 at 11.30 am CST.

--------------------------------------------------------
CAN I STILL PLAY?
--------------------------------------------------------

You are still able to play out any balances in your gaming account/s prior
to it being suspended. Any winnings during this time can be withdrawn and
enjoyed.

--------------------------------------------------------
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THIS DATE?
--------------------------------------------------------

Should you still have a cash balance in your gaming account after the
deadline, we will ensure that you are refunded via:

- Your preferred payment method* or the last method used to
deposit.
- Should this not be possible, please contact our Customer Services Team
to have your balance/s paid directly to your bank account.

* Please note that check is no longer available as a withdrawal option, so
if this is your preferred withdrawal mechanism, please select a different
option from within the software before the cut off date or call our
Customer Service Centre to make alternative arrangements.

As the full effect and implications of the Act will not Become clear for
some time, please be assured that we will keep you updated as the
situation progresses.

David, thank you very much for your patronage at
Trident Entertainment Group.

Should you experience any problems or need further assistance please get
in touch with our Customer Services Team at support@tridentegroup.com or
call them directly on 866-931-0880

The Management and Staff
Trident Entertainment Group
http://www.tridentegroup.com
Toll free USA/Canada: 866-931-0880

You can write to us at:
Trident Entertainment Group
P.O. Box 2072
Kahnawake, Quebec J0L 1B0
Canada

[/ QUOTE ]

Other sites say things that are slightly different, but I'd expect more of the same from a variety of Microgaming/Prima skins soon. I don't know if some of the larger skins, like TGC or RiverBelle will stick around.

I think I have accounts at just about all the bigger Prima skins (mabye 15 or so), so I'll try to keep track of what sites send me this sort of stuff.

[smashoneout]

Seems similar to the Paradise Poker thing posted elsewhere! Instead of a massive pullout like PartyGaming, a bunch of the smaller sites seem to be going state by state. Unfortunately, I live in Indiana. Fortunately, the sites I enjoy seem to have no intention of pulling out of Indiana - for now.

[tautomer]

Why Indiana? Do they have laws that make this necessary?

[krazyace5]

Michigan too.

[DuderinoAB]

Indiana has some very vague laws on the subject. The state attorney general made a statement based on essentially nothing in 1999 saying he believed it was illegal for hoosiers to play. There's never been any case law to back this, and I don't see anyone in Indiana being prosecuted for anything anytime soon.

[smashoneout]

It's also interesting that poker bar leagues that have cash prizes are legal or illegal on a county by county basis in Indiana.

[BadMoonRising]

I got a similar email from the Belle Rock gaming group that runs Riverbelle poker that they are no longer accepting players from Illinois.

[jrz1972]

I live in South Dakota. I've gotten emails from PokerTime and RiverBelle saying that I can no longer play there because of my state of residence. I'm hoping that Battlefield sticks around, but I'm not terribly optimistic.

Edit: I literally just now got another "We're terribly sorry but . . . " letter from 7 Sultans. I'm watching the Prima sites go off-line one by one.

[HavanaBanana]

[ QUOTE ]
Dear XXX,

It is with regret that we have to inform you that in light of recent legislative changes in the United States; Belle Rock Entertainment has notified us that from tomorrow, Friday, October 13th, at 11:30 am EST no further transactions from either new or existing players residing in the States listed below, will be accepted.

As a result you will no longer be able to generate revenue from Belle Rock Entertainment's casinos or poker rooms in these States:

Michigan
Illinois
Louisiana
Oregon
Washington
Wisconsin
Indiana
Nevada
South Dakota
New Jersey
New York
We would like to remind you that there are exciting opportunities in other markets and we look forward to exploring these with you. If you have any queries or would like to find out more, please contact me.

The message below has been sent out to the affected players:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Player,

The United States Congress has recently passed an Act affecting payments for internet gambling that is expected to be signed into law sometime on Friday, October 13th, 2006.

And so, it is with much regret that we are to cease accepting wagers and/or bets from players who are resident in relevant State in the United States of America.

Pending further consideration of this Act, your account and the gaming software will no longer be accessible as of Friday, October 13th, 2006.

Can I still play?
You are still able to play out any balances in your gaming account/s prior to it being suspended. Any winnings during this time can be withdrawn and enjoyed.

What happens after this date?
Should you still have a cash balance in your gaming account after the deadline, we will ensure that you are refunded via:
- Your preferred payment method* or the last method used to deposit

* Please note that check is no longer available as a withdrawal option, so if this is your preferred withdrawal mechanism, please select a different option from within the software before the cut off date or call our Customer Service Centre to make alternative arrangements.

As the full effect and implications of the Act will not become clear for some time, please be assured that we will keep you updated as the situation progresses.

Thank you very much for your patronage at Belle Rock Entertainment.

Should you experience any problems or need further assistance please get in touch with our Customer Services Team at support@bellerockentertainment.com or call them directly at 1 877 777 1999. They're on stand-by to assist.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Warm Regards

Cobus Ebersohn
Affiliate Relationship Manager
Cobus@Referback.com
ReferBack
Committed to Your Returns


[/ QUOTE ]


This is what they have sent out to their affiliates, I am not one btw.

ToT

[DuderinoAB]

I live about 15 minutes from Ohio...I might just move to that Godforsaken state...ugh.

[gila]

[ QUOTE ]
I live about 15 minutes from Ohio...I might just move to that Godforsaken state...ugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Need a house mate?

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
Indiana has some very vague laws on the subject. The state attorney general made a statement based on essentially nothing in 1999 saying he believed it was illegal for hoosiers to play. There's never been any case law to back this, and I don't see anyone in Indiana being prosecuted for anything anytime soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

i remember that....we have no statues for online gaming at all as I have spoken with the att. general's office. The only statues we have in Indiana are for Horses, boats, lottery, and bingo.

Indy

[DuderinoAB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I live about 15 minutes from Ohio...I might just move to that Godforsaken state...ugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Need a house mate?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol...yeah but I've got a lease that runs for another 6 months...I'm in Huntington right now...where you at?

[Coy_Roy]

Dream Poker just sent me a similar e-mail.

Thankfully DC is an allowed jurisdiction so I'm in the clear.

[permafrost]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Indiana has some very vague laws on the subject. The state attorney general made a statement based on essentially nothing in 1999 saying he believed it was illegal for hoosiers to play. There's never been any case law to back this, and I don't see anyone in Indiana being prosecuted for anything anytime soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

i remember that....we have no statues for online gaming at all as I have spoken with the att. general's office. The only statues we have in Indiana are for Horses, boats, lottery, and bingo.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Any gambling in Indiana that is not authorized = misdemeanor or worse (http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar45/ch5.html)

[Indiana]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Indiana has some very vague laws on the subject. The state attorney general made a statement based on essentially nothing in 1999 saying he believed it was illegal for hoosiers to play. There's never been any case law to back this, and I don't see anyone in Indiana being prosecuted for anything anytime soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

i remember that....we have no statues for online gaming at all as I have spoken with the att. general's office. The only statues we have in Indiana are for Horses, boats, lottery, and bingo.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Any gambling in Indiana that is not authorized = misdemeanor or worse (http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar45/ch5.html)

[/ QUOTE ]

guess i'm a criminal then...lol...come get me

Indy

[mpslg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Indiana has some very vague laws on the subject. The state attorney general made a statement based on essentially nothing in 1999 saying he believed it was illegal for hoosiers to play. There's never been any case law to back this, and I don't see anyone in Indiana being prosecuted for anything anytime soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

i remember that....we have no statues for online gaming at all as I have spoken with the att. general's office. The only statues we have in Indiana are for Horses, boats, lottery, and bingo.

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

Any gambling in Indiana that is not authorized = misdemeanor or worse (http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar45/ch5.html)

[/ QUOTE ]

guess i'm a criminal then...lol...come get me

Indy

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm an attorney in Indiana and we do have a specific law making internet gambling illegal. It was passed a couple of years ago.

[Sniper]

Just for clarification... Has Prima made an official statement that this is coming from them, or is this individual skins making their own decisions?

[Coy_Roy]

[ QUOTE ]
Just for clarification... Has Prima made an official statement that this is coming from them, or is this individual skins making their own decisions?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm in at least 4 different Prima sites and so far Dream is the only one I've recieved an -mail from........of course I'm also not in one of the banned states, so I don't know.

[IndyFish]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm an attorney in Indiana and we do have a specific law making internet gambling illegal. It was passed a couple of years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

If poker were to get a carve-out similar to the horsies, what are the chances Indiana or any other state would embrace poker and repeal the state laws?

Is this the law you're referring to?

IC 35-45-5-1
Definitions
35-45-5-1 Sec. 1. As used in this chapter:
"Gain" means the direct realization of winnings.
"Gambling" means risking money or other property for gain, contingent in whole or in part upon lot, chance, or the operation of a gambling device; but it does not include participating in:
(1) bona fide contests of skill, speed, strength, or endurance in which awards are made only to entrants or the owners of entries; or...

And if so, what are your thoughts on the bold sections?

[Little_Luck]

As if living in Michigan isnt bad enough...

[shockdaworld]

[ QUOTE ]
As if living in Michigan isnt bad enough...

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

I couldn't find any official word from Prima. The only skin with any announcement I've seen is BetHoldem saying they are in (it's in the sticky).

[DuderinoAB]

So, according to the law, I could theoretically drive accross the Ohio border, sit in an internet cafe and play for a few hours a day, and not be doing anything illegal even though I am a resident of Indiana? Wouldn't this just be the same as me going to a casino accross a state line? Anyone with greater understanding of legal language care to comment?

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
So, according to the law, I could theoretically drive accross the Ohio border, sit in an internet cafe and play for a few hours a day, and not be doing anything illegal even though I am a resident of Indiana? Wouldn't this just be the same as me going to a casino accross a state line? Anyone with greater understanding of legal language care to comment?

[/ QUOTE ]
Gambling laws depend on where you are. Where you live is irrelevant.

[DuderinoAB]

sweet...that's easy nuff to get around as I live on the border...I'll just go to a friend's house...ty for the info

[daveymck]

32Red banning US folks as well, see end of this report on Sporting Bet

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6046674.stm

[jrz1972]

[ QUOTE ]
Just for clarification... Has Prima made an official statement that this is coming from them, or is this individual skins making their own decisions?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's coming from individual skins, but I would but surprised if this wasn't a network-level decision. I've been banned from 100% of the Prima sites I had accounts for (RiverBelle, PokerTime, Royal Vegas, 7 Sultans, and Battlefield). All of those sites happened to implement the exact same state-specific policy, and they all used one of two form letters. I would think this is Prima and not just the skins.

[OrianasDaad]

[ QUOTE ]
Just for clarification... Has Prima made an official statement that this is coming from them, or is this individual skins making their own decisions?

[/ QUOTE ]

From Wild Jack:

[ QUOTE ]
We regret to inform you that due to recent changes in
US legislation, Microgaming, the software provider for
the Jackpot Factory Casino group, has decided to stop
taking bets from players residing in the following states:
Illinois, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey,
New York, Oregon, South Dakota, Washington, and Wisconsin

[/ QUOTE ]

[Vern]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, according to the law, I could theoretically drive accross the Ohio border, sit in an internet cafe and play for a few hours a day, and not be doing anything illegal even though I am a resident of Indiana? Wouldn't this just be the same as me going to a casino accross a state line? Anyone with greater understanding of legal language care to comment?

[/ QUOTE ]
Gambling laws depend on where you are. Where you live is irrelevant.

[/ QUOTE ]
True, but the gambling sites will likely be lazy and just rely on where you live instead of trying to determine your location through IP filters.

[permafrost]

[ QUOTE ]
So, according to the law, I could theoretically drive accross the Ohio border, sit in an internet cafe and play for a few hours a day, and not be doing anything illegal even though I am a resident of Indiana? Wouldn't this just be the same as me going to a casino accross a state line? Anyone with greater understanding of legal language care to comment?

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing poker at an "internet cafe" in Ohio is a minor misdemenor, public gaming. Making substantial income would be worse according to the statutes.

The "casino across the state line" is presumably legal, the online poker provider (and your playing there) are likely not.

[mpslg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm an attorney in Indiana and we do have a specific law making internet gambling illegal. It was passed a couple of years ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

If poker were to get a carve-out similar to the horsies, what are the chances Indiana or any other state would embrace poker and repeal the state laws?

Is this the law you're referring to?

IC 35-45-5-1
Definitions
35-45-5-1 Sec. 1. As used in this chapter:
"Gain" means the direct realization of winnings.
"Gambling" means risking money or other property for gain, contingent in whole or in part upon lot, chance, or the operation of a gambling device; but it does not include participating in:
(1) bona fide contests of skill, speed, strength, or endurance in which awards are made only to entrants or the owners of entries; or...

And if so, what are your thoughts on the bold sections?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually referring to I.C. 35-45-5-2:

Unlawful gambling
35-45-5-2 Sec. 2. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally engages in gambling commits unlawful gambling.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (c), unlawful gambling is a Class B misdemeanor.
(c) An operator who knowingly or intentionally uses the Internet to engage in unlawful gambling:
(1) in Indiana; or
(2) with a person located in Indiana;
commits a Class D felony.

The statute only makes it a felony for an "operator" (person who owns, maintains, or operates an Internet site that is used for interactive gambling) to use the internet for unlawful gambling. It is a Class B Misdemeanor for anyone to engage in gambling, unless one of the exceptions applies. Since there is no specific exception allowing a person in Indiana to gamble on the internet, it is unlawful for a person in Indiana to gamble on the internet.

I would agree that there is an argument that poker should not be considered "gambling" because it is a bona fide contest of skill. To my knowledge, there is no caselaw in Indiana dealing with this issue. My personal opinion is that the courts would consider poker gambling.