Paradise Blocks A Few States Today [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

SlewDog

10-12-2006, 03:37 PM

Starting today (10/12) Paradise Poker has blocked players that are in states that already have laws concerning online poker. Those states are:
Utah
Hawaii
Michigan
Indiana
Oregon
Nevada
Washington
Illinois
Louisiana
South Dakota

Paradise is letting affected players cash out.

Here is the announcement:

http://www.paradisepoker.com/news/us_legislation.html

permafrost

10-12-2006, 03:50 PM

And they blocked all US players from depositing and transferring.

Victor

10-12-2006, 03:51 PM

paradise was my first fling. tears to my eyes.

okietalker

10-12-2006, 03:55 PM

Oh well I hated the site anyways

hotbacon

10-12-2006, 03:57 PM

Don't care, stars is in.

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-12-2006, 03:59 PM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=22#Post7493312 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493312&an=0&page=22#Pos t7493312)

"Party Poker will operate as much as possible in business-as-usual, "buyer beware" mode, perhaps taking some smaller steps like preventing US players from playing their casino games or closing off certain funding routes like IGMPay.

PokerStars will be the most proactive site in pursuing legal strategies against the legislation, and will offer deposit and cashout options to US players in accordance with the opinion of their lawyers.

888.com will stop accepting US players and will do so relatively soon.

Full Tilt will develop some funky new payment mechanism which might or might not be legal.

Paradise Poker will differentiate based on the state of residence of the US player.

Ultimate Bet will go bankrupt or become an acqusition target for a larger site.

Bodog will do something incredibly brash and stupid, get the pants sued off of them, and ruin it for everyone else. "

The_Scout

10-12-2006, 03:59 PM

As I read it, there are three major parts to this announcement:

-- No new deposits or transfers from Americans.

-- Players from the listed states are kicked off immediately.

-- All remaining Americans will no longer be able to play as of Nov. 13.

So in other words, Paradise is pulling out.

Sniper

10-12-2006, 04:01 PM

Also, US players not from the listed states, with funds already on deposit, will have only another month to play there (but not in the casino or sportsbook)...

"Although we will no longer be able to accept additional deposits, players will continue to be able to play at our real money tables with the funds they already have on deposit at Paradise until November 13th 2006."

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-12-2006, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
As I read it, there are three major parts to this announcement:

-- No new deposits or transfers from Americans.

-- Players from the listed states are kicked off immediately.

-- All remaining Americans will no longer be able to play as of Nov. 13.

So in other words, Paradise is pulling out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read their whole announcement and you are right. Paradise is out.

permafrost

10-12-2006, 04:03 PM

I just deposited as a test and it worked; wouldn't let me play though. Probably starts tomorrow for deposit block.

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-12-2006, 04:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As I read it, there are three major parts to this announcement:

-- No new deposits or transfers from Americans.

-- Players from the listed states are kicked off immediately.

-- All remaining Americans will no longer be able to play as of Nov. 13.

So in other words, Paradise is pulling out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read their whole announcement and you are right. Paradise is out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Caveat: there were lots of reports that Paradise was looking to sell its US-facing businesses. What I think the November 12 thing means is that they're still looking to do that, but want to try and preserve what they can of their US customer base. However, they're playing it safe in states like LA, WA and IL that have relatively stronger internet gambling laws.

247boss

10-12-2006, 04:21 PM

OUCH

Wahoo73

10-12-2006, 04:45 PM

So far, post-flop but before the turn and river cards, I'd say NH.

permafrost

10-12-2006, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also, US players not from the listed states, with funds already on deposit, will have only another month to play there (but not in the casino or sportsbook)...

"Although we will no longer be able to accept additional deposits, players will continue to be able to play at our real money tables with the funds they already have on deposit at Paradise until November 13th 2006."

[/ QUOTE ]

They block 10 States now. What Nov. 13th legal changes cause blockage of the rest of the States, as opposed to now?

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-12-2006, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, US players not from the listed states, with funds already on deposit, will have only another month to play there (but not in the casino or sportsbook)...

"Although we will no longer be able to accept additional deposits, players will continue to be able to play at our real money tables with the funds they already have on deposit at Paradise until November 13th 2006."

[/ QUOTE ]

They block 10 States now. What Nov. 13th legal changes cause blockage of the rest of the States, as opposed to now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sportingbet was the company that had an executive arrested by state authorities in Louisiana. Thus, they're playing it safe w/r/t any other states that might claim the jurisidiction to do the same thing.

Why allow US players from other states to continue to play until mid-November? That's a better question, but their lawyers probably advised them that the clearest risks are in (1) accepting deposits from US customers; (2) accepting action from US customers in states with more specific internet gambling laws. They are no longer doing these things. However, they're willing to accept a limited about of risk for a limited amount of time, in order to keep the property more attractive to potential acquirers.

AndyH69

10-12-2006, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As I read it, there are three major parts to this announcement:

-- No new deposits or transfers from Americans.

-- Players from the listed states are kicked off immediately.

-- All remaining Americans will no longer be able to play as of Nov. 13.

So in other words, Paradise is pulling out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read their whole announcement and you are right. Paradise is out.

[/ QUOTE ]

But presumably they are filtering Americans by the address details they have entered into their profile. So what's to stop people from changing their details to non-US?

blueodum

10-12-2006, 05:08 PM

But presumably they are filtering Americans by the address details they have entered into their profile. So what's to stop people from changing their details to non-US?

They will probably require proof of address change to be sent to them.

permafrost

10-12-2006, 05:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, US players not from the listed states, with funds already on deposit, will have only another month to play there (but not in the casino or sportsbook)...

"Although we will no longer be able to accept additional deposits, players will continue to be able to play at our real money tables with the funds they already have on deposit at Paradise until November 13th 2006."

[/ QUOTE ]

They block 10 States now. What Nov. 13th legal changes cause blockage of the rest of the States, as opposed to now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sportingbet was the company that had an executive arrested by state authorities in Louisiana. Thus, they're playing it safe w/r/t any other states that might claim the jurisidiction to do the same thing.

Why allow US players from other states to continue to play until mid-November? That's a better question, but their lawyers probably advised them that the clearest risks are in (1) accepting deposits from US customers; (2) accepting action from US customers in states with more specific internet gambling laws. They are no longer doing these things. However, they're willing to accept a limited about of risk for a limited amount of time, in order to keep the property more attractive to potential acquirers.

[/ QUOTE ]

No legality adds more risk on Nov. 13th, AFAIK, so they could extend the date later, correct?

oreopimp

10-12-2006, 05:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=22#Post7493312 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493312&an=0&page=22#Pos t7493312)

"Party Poker will operate as much as possible in business-as-usual, "buyer beware" mode, perhaps taking some smaller steps like preventing US players from playing their casino games or closing off certain funding routes like IGMPay.

PokerStars will be the most proactive site in pursuing legal strategies against the legislation, and will offer deposit and cashout options to US players in accordance with the opinion of their lawyers.

888.com will stop accepting US players and will do so relatively soon.

Full Tilt will develop some funky new payment mechanism which might or might not be legal.

Paradise Poker will differentiate based on the state of residence of the US player.

Ultimate Bet will go bankrupt or become an acqusition target for a larger site.

Bodog will do something incredibly brash and stupid, get the pants sued off of them, and ruin it for everyone else. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Nate,

how the [censored]? seriously.

did you write another logarithm?

btw whats the over/under on the bodog thing.

haakee

10-12-2006, 05:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But presumably they are filtering Americans by the address details they have entered into their profile. So what's to stop people from changing their details to non-US?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's probably based on IP address and mailing address.

Los Feliz Slim

10-12-2006, 05:39 PM

This one makes me really sad. Softest site IMO. That really blows. For the next 30 days, please tell all the fish on Paradise to move to other sites so I can continue to play profitably.

PartyGirlUK

10-12-2006, 05:42 PM

Nate,

what is the deal with IL. Will a non-resident who is just vacationing in Chicago be able to play on Paradise?

Dean

FatalError

10-12-2006, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=22#Post7493312 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493312&an=0&page=22#Pos t7493312)

"Party Poker will operate as much as possible in business-as-usual, "buyer beware" mode, perhaps taking some smaller steps like preventing US players from playing their casino games or closing off certain funding routes like IGMPay.

PokerStars will be the most proactive site in pursuing legal strategies against the legislation, and will offer deposit and cashout options to US players in accordance with the opinion of their lawyers.

888.com will stop accepting US players and will do so relatively soon.

Full Tilt will develop some funky new payment mechanism which might or might not be legal.

Paradise Poker will differentiate based on the state of residence of the US player.

Ultimate Bet will go bankrupt or become an acqusition target for a larger site.

Bodog will do something incredibly brash and stupid, get the pants sued off of them, and ruin it for everyone else. "

[/ QUOTE ]

Has anyone started dreaming about how fantastical the bodog stunt will be?

IndyFish

10-12-2006, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Starting today (10/12) Paradise Poker has blocked players that are in states that already have laws concerning online poker. Those states are:
Utah
Hawaii
Michigan
Indiana
Oregon
Nevada
Washington
Illinois
Louisiana
South Dakota

Paradise is letting affected players cash out.

Here is the announcement:

http://www.paradisepoker.com/news/us_legislation.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhat related question: Do these states all differentiate between types of online gambling, or is ALL online gambling illegal in these 10 states? Just curious as to whether the fantasy football (f/f) will be affected by this law in these states. I know f/f got an exemption in the SAFE Ports bill, but if an individual state says "No online gambling...period" who wins? I'm hoping the f/f gets banned too, since that would cause all kinds of hell to break out here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-12-2006, 06:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Nate,

what is the deal with IL. Will a non-resident who is just vacationing in Chicago be able to play on Paradise?

Dean

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know, but I'd guess not.

GMan42

10-12-2006, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This one makes me really sad. Softest site IMO. That really blows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, tell me about it. The crappy software, and lack of good PT support, really seemed to drive the TAGs away. So long, 40%+ VPIP tables with multiple cold-callers every time I raise. I'll miss ya.

kidpokeher

10-12-2006, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
paradise was my first fling. tears to my eyes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Harkey

10-12-2006, 06:52 PM

I believe the listed states are the ones who don't allow "games of skill" to be played online, or something to that effect.

RemyXO

10-12-2006, 07:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Oh well I hated the site anyways

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto. Nice of them to give the warning a month in advance. I'll clear my leftover $100 bonus and get the heck out.

I don't like their interface, especially during SNGs - why the [censored] do I have to read the dealer log to find out what the current level is, what the blinds are, which amount has been raised and which reraised? Plus, the hands history via email is BS.

I won't miss Paradise. But Paradise will miss us. To heck with them.

John_Manley

10-12-2006, 07:05 PM

What is so special about Nov. 13th?

PsYcHo-ScHnAuZeR

10-12-2006, 09:12 PM

Clarification requested.

Is there any contradiction between the information in this thread and the other two threads (about the sale of Paradise non-poker business)?

Is it possible that the November 13 date was a mistake (typo) intended to be October 13th?

One reason they may allow one month of poker play is to get their hands on a chunk of our money before we withdraw (by collecting rake - many fish may go busto rather than withdraw)

Can someone explain how the various pieces of information all fit together in a logical manner?

A_C_Slater

10-12-2006, 09:31 PM

My dad just called me up in a panic about how he can't even log onto Paradise poker to even withdraw funds, let alone play there. He said he sat at a table to play and a message informed him that he was no longer allowed to play. Then he logged out and went back on and now can't even get access to the site. This is in Michigan.

celiboy

10-12-2006, 09:39 PM

I think this is a very bad sign folks....If you recall, 60 minutes had a piece on internet gaming and they actually interviewed someone from Paradise Poker and they basically said they did not care what the laws in the U.S. were. With this 360 degree change, they are obviously stating that they now do care and will abide by U.S. law which means that they don't think it will be possible to avoid prosecution by the U.S. authorities if they continue to take U.S. clients.

BTR_Rounder

10-12-2006, 09:51 PM

Oh this bites, I know which Attorney General I will not be voting for next time.

And to top it off the local casino closed it's B&M game. I guess I'll have to trek to New Orleans to play Harrahs if I want to get in a game.

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-12-2006, 09:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a very bad sign folks....If you recall, 60 minutes had a piece on internet gaming and they actually interviewed someone from Paradise Poker and they basically said they did not care what the laws in the U.S. were. With this 360 degree change, they are obviously stating that they now do care and will abide by U.S. law which means that they don't think it will be possible to avoid prosecution by the U.S. authorities if they continue to take U.S. clients.

[/ QUOTE ]

All that you're really seeing is companies behaving rationally. Both the risks and rewards are substantial here, but the companies involved are by and large making sound judgmenets based on their corporate form, their geography, the percentage of business that they do in the US, and related factors. Corporate philosophy -- Sportingbet tending to be more maverick, or PokerStars tending to be more cautious -- goes out the window when the stkaes are this high.

Backspin20

10-12-2006, 10:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=22#Post7493312 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493312&an=0&page=22#Pos t7493312)

LOL Well I know your right about BoDOG! HAHAH

"Party Poker will operate as much as possible in business-as-usual, "buyer beware" mode, perhaps taking some smaller steps like preventing US players from playing their casino games or closing off certain funding routes like IGMPay.

PokerStars will be the most proactive site in pursuing legal strategies against the legislation, and will offer deposit and cashout options to US players in accordance with the opinion of their lawyers.

888.com will stop accepting US players and will do so relatively soon.

Full Tilt will develop some funky new payment mechanism which might or might not be legal.

Paradise Poker will differentiate based on the state of residence of the US player.

Ultimate Bet will go bankrupt or become an acqusition target for a larger site.

Bodog will do something incredibly brash and stupid, get the pants sued off of them, and ruin it for everyone else. "

[/ QUOTE ]

jrmarenda

10-12-2006, 11:31 PM

I play at Paradise through my sportsbook.com account. I am unable to even log on. My address on file is in Idaho, but I live in Oregon so i have an Oregon IP address.

I called sportsbook.com, and they said that I would be able to play poker tomorrow. However the guy on the phone told me that they have been allowing people to gamble for seven years, that they are not a US company and this law does not affect them....Obviously, the information train has passed him by.

Vern

10-12-2006, 11:41 PM

pikachu

10-13-2006, 12:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Starting today (10/12) Paradise Poker has blocked players that are in states that already have laws concerning online poker. Those states are:
Utah
Hawaii
Michigan
Indiana
Oregon
Nevada
Washington
Illinois
Louisiana
South Dakota

Paradise is letting affected players cash out.

Here is the announcement:

http://www.paradisepoker.com/news/us_legislation.html

[/ QUOTE ]

Somewhat related question: Do these states all differentiate between types of online gambling, or is ALL online gambling illegal in these 10 states? Just curious as to whether the fantasy football (f/f) will be affected by this law in these states. I know f/f got an exemption in the SAFE Ports bill, but if an individual state says "No online gambling...period" who wins? I'm hoping the f/f gets banned too, since that would cause all kinds of hell to break out here. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I have read that Michigan, Indiana, Oregon, Nevada, Washington, Illinois, Louisiana, and South Dakota have laws that specifically prohibit internet gambling. I don't have copies of their laws, but given poker sites' reactions, I assume it is true.

It is my understanding that Utah and Hawaii prohibit all forms of gambling and are the only two states in which no forms of gambling at all are allowed (no lotto, Indian casinos, etc.).

Disclaimer: I am a pokemon, use the information in this post at your own risk.

pikachu

10-13-2006, 12:13 AM

From Bloomberg article:

"Oct. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Sportingbet Plc, the owner of Paradise Poker, sold its operations in the U.S., where lawmakers are preparing to ban Internet gambling.

Jazette Enterprises Ltd. bought the company's U.S. sports betting and casino operations for $1, London-based Sportingbet said in an e-mailed statement today. The sale relieves Sportingbet of $13.2 million in liabilities."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=a0rq6aOSqXgs

Anyone ever heard of Jazette Enterprises?

I note too that it is only the sports betting and casino operations, so I'm assuming Paradise was not part of the deal.

mmbt0ne

10-13-2006, 12:25 AM

Shank

10-13-2006, 03:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]

After much deliberation, our Legal Team has advised that in order to comply with the new legislation Paradise Poker will be required to stop accepting deposits from all US players. In addition we will no longer be able to offer US players the ability to transfer funds to each other using the ‘Send Money To Player’ function or to transfer funds to Sportsbook.com.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the same legal team that previously told them sports betting online was okay despite the Wire Act? Wow.