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Synergistic Explosions
10-11-2006, 07:10 PM
After reading this about how the NFL paid 700k to the former legal counsel of Frist to get the bill passed as is, makes me saddened. Sounds shady now that Frist made it his crusade to get this bill attached to whatever he could at the last second. Especially now that he is being investigated for insider trading.

[ QUOTE ]
National Football League Involved in Anti-Gambling Bill
Published: Wednesday, October 11, 2006
Author: Dan Katz

The New York Post reported yesterday that the National Football League had a hand in getting the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act attached to the Safe Port Act, which passed through Congress late on the night of September 29.

The NFL hired a high-powered lobbyist to get the anti-online gambling legislation through, while, of course, still keeping fantasy football legal. NFL.com hosts one of the most popular fantasy football leagues, and that, combined with royalties from other fantasy sites, brings the NFL a lot of money each year. All told, according to an industry association, $200 million are spent on online fantasy football every year. The NFL holds fantasy football in such high regard that a link for its fantasy section is highlighted in red (the rest of the menu items are blue) directly underneath the NFL logo on the league's website.

The lobbyist hired was lawyer Marty Gold of the firm Covington and Burling. They billed the NFL $700,000 during 2005 for a variety of lobbying efforts, including the internet gambling issue.

But here's the kicker (no pun intended). Gold used to be legal counsel to Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, the man who made it his crusade to sneak the anti-online gambling legislation into anything he could. He was finally able to worm it into the Safe Port Act at the eleventh hour. Sound shady to anyone?

In September, the NFL tried to get the gambling measures added to defense legislation. Gold claims it was not he who tried that, but rather new NFL Chairman Roger Goodell, along with former NFL head Paul Tagliabue. The two wrote to Sen. John Warner (R-Va.), who is the Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman, urging him to add the gambling wording to the defense bill, but were rebuked by Warner.

Warner, in turn, told Frist that it should not be added to the defense bill. After all, it is almost insulting to add something like that to a bill that is designed to help U.S. troops.

In the end, Frist was able to get House Homeland Security Chairman Rep. Pete King (R-N.Y.) to tack it on to the Safe Port Act without a vote and without allowing debate in the Senate.

George Bush may sign the bill into law as early as this Friday.

What is mind boggling here is how hypocritical the NFL is in this. The league makes millions of dollars directly from fantasy football, which is much more of a gambling endeavor than poker. Sure, some people just play for pride, but others spend tens, hundreds, and even thousands of dollars to play in leagues, hoping to win a big prize pool. While we can't control the cards in poker, we can control how we play, and with some practice and skill, even control how our opponents play. There is luck in poker, of course, but there is a lot of skill involved, as well. As fun as fantasy football is, there really is no skill involved. You pick players who you think are going to be good (yes, there is strategy when it comes to when to pick whom, but it's still all a guessing game) and then hope they play well.

Fantasy football participants have no control over injuries (the reigning league MVP broke his foot a couple weeks ago - think that sent fantasy owners into a tizzy?), they have no control over how the teams play, they have no control over the weather. The list goes on. This isn't gambling? Come on.

On top of that, football is the most popular game for sports bettors. Millions of dollars are wagered every week on both college and professional football. You don't think the NFL's popularity is helped by gamblers hanging on every snap? If sports betting did not exist, football would still be popular, but I guarantee it would not garner the interest it does now.

So, it remains unclear what the exact motivations of the NFL were in lobbying to get anti-online gambling legislation passed. But whatever they are, they probably involved hypocrisy, short-sightedness, greed, and misplaced priorities.

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malo
10-11-2006, 07:28 PM
Starting to think (maybe it's just hope) that UEGIA may just blow up in Frist's face.

The possibility (strong likelihood?) of shady dealings, WTO already grumbling about it, lots of irate gamblers (some of whom may be heading to the polls next month for the first time in years), banking industry displeased about an unfunded mandate. And so on......

Could become quite the soap opera.

tipperdog
10-11-2006, 07:33 PM
You are all seriously nuts.

Long story short: The NFL hired a well-connected high-paid lobbyist to protect its interests. The lobbyist did his job well. What's so outrageous? It's hardly news that the NFL (and all professional sports league) have a love/hate relationship with gambling.

Incidntally, the NFL's lobbying strategy is a good model for what the poker sites SHOULD have done, rather than leaving its fate to the misguided PPA.

Harkey
10-11-2006, 07:37 PM
All Mr. Bush has to do is veto the bill with the note that he'll sign it once the UEGIA is stripped from it. Of course, that won't happen.

Hock_
10-11-2006, 07:38 PM
I hate Frist and this legislation as much as anyone else, but this might be blown out of proportion. Covington is the NFL's primary outside legal counsel, so who knows what the real story is.

malo
10-11-2006, 07:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You are all seriously nuts.

Long story short: The NFL hired a well-connected high-paid lobbyist to protect its interests. The lobbyist did his job well. What's so outrageous? It's hardly news that the NFL (and all professional sports league) have a love/hate relationship with gambling.

Incidntally, the NFL's lobbying strategy is a good model for what the poker sites SHOULD have done, rather than leaving its fate to the misguided PPA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope---just don't like Frist's hypocrisy. Yammering on about how gambling is bad for families (etc,etc) but being in bed with some forms of gambling and giving them carveouts.

Just doesn't sit well with me.

BluffTHIS!
10-11-2006, 07:41 PM
Synergistic,

You should provide a link for stories like that. My guess it is off one of those sports betting affiliate sites though. However I certainly agree with its sentiments.

soah
10-11-2006, 07:41 PM
URLs please.

Synergistic Explosions
10-11-2006, 07:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Synergistic,

You should provide a link for stories like that. My guess it is off one of those sports betting affiliate sites though. However I certainly agree with its sentiments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, sorry guys, I got so irrate after reading it I forgot.

http://www.pokersourceonline.com/news.asp?poker=456

soah
10-11-2006, 07:54 PM
What about the insider trading stuff?

Synergistic Explosions
10-11-2006, 08:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What about the insider trading stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9450770/

The investigation into the insider trading you just have to love. I think Bill Frist will not be our next president. He seems to carry baggage.

Unabridged
10-11-2006, 08:16 PM
700k, thats it?
party should have dropped $10 million directly into Frist's pocket

faustusmedea
10-11-2006, 08:25 PM
The underlying message that seems to be missed here (and of course we don't know the real story) is you can buy a high powered lobbying firm for only $700k. The PPA has 120k members at 20 a pop meaning they had over 2M for their efforts. Seems like Full Tilt might have dropped the ball here being the founders; Tiltware are an american company and could have found 700k in their couches to engage a major firm.

faustusmedea
10-11-2006, 08:27 PM
Yeah, actually there is only law against foreign corps contributing to campaigns, not against lobbying so Party or Stars could have spent the dough too. This is gonna go down as one of the biggest slip-ups of all time. If you get down to it, the sites really did NOTHING.

Berge20
10-11-2006, 09:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
You are all seriously nuts.

Long story short: The NFL hired a well-connected high-paid lobbyist to protect its interests. The lobbyist did his job well. What's so outrageous? It's hardly news that the NFL (and all professional sports league) have a love/hate relationship with gambling.

Incidntally, the NFL's lobbying strategy is a good model for what the poker sites SHOULD have done, rather than leaving its fate to the misguided PPA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly

ChrisAJ
10-11-2006, 09:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are all seriously nuts.

Long story short: The NFL hired a well-connected high-paid lobbyist to protect its interests. The lobbyist did his job well. What's so outrageous? It's hardly news that the NFL (and all professional sports league) have a love/hate relationship with gambling.

Incidntally, the NFL's lobbying strategy is a good model for what the poker sites SHOULD have done, rather than leaving its fate to the misguided PPA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly

[/ QUOTE ]

Marty Gold pretty much wrote the book on Senate legislative procedure, or at least the book most people read these days. Sharp guy, making the NFL reasonably smart to hire C&B. And yeah, he's also very close to Frist.

spidey74
10-11-2006, 10:00 PM
Why the heck is the NFL trying to stick there nose in what we do with our time??? I really don't get it. Without gambling, interest in football games would go down dramatically! Placing bets on the games is what gets viewers to watch games they otherwise would have no interest in.

We need to contact (e-mail, phone, etc.) the NFL and figure out what is going on in their heads. They better have a good explanation for all this. Either way, we really should teach them not to mess with poker players. I would have no problem boycotting the NFL completely if I verified they played a role in trying to ban online gambling!

Spidey74

TruePoker CEO
10-11-2006, 10:24 PM
"Incidntally, the NFL's lobbying strategy is a good model for what the poker sites SHOULD have done, rather than leaving its fate to the misguided PPA."

I agree with Berge.

I am not advocating hiring an Abramoff, who turned out to actually be a real live fraud-commiting crook. However, anyone who thinks the neophyte, bumbling PPA or the ever vain CardPlayer or "cut and run" Party is fit to rely upon in this dogfight needs to find a new dog.

I would think that PStars has weighed in on this only after careful examination of the next 6 months or so.

There is your timeline and there is your best dog for the fight.

bball904
10-11-2006, 10:31 PM
I don't think I can trust the information is this article given how completely wrong it is in certain regards. For example:

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The league makes millions of dollars directly from fantasy football, which is much more of a gambling endeavor than poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly consider poker to be a game of skill, but anyone that thinks fantasy sports is gambling is ignorant. To take that further and adamantly degrade the skill involved in fantasy sports clearly renders this article as highly biased garbage.

paland
10-11-2006, 11:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I can trust the information is this article given how completely wrong it is in certain regards. For example:

[ QUOTE ]
The league makes millions of dollars directly from fantasy football, which is much more of a gambling endeavor than poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly consider poker to be a game of skill, but anyone that thinks fantasy sports is gambling is ignorant. To take that further and adamantly degrade the skill involved in fantasy sports clearly renders this article as highly biased garbage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you. Many fantasy footballl players play poker and many of them are pissed. But fantasy sports has the same or less luck factor than poker. It takes skill to win a contest that has 5000 entries, or to even finish in the money. Luck alone will not do it.

Berge20
10-11-2006, 11:59 PM
This is a big part of it too

I realize that many people don't believe good lobbyists don't deserve anything (I think the profession as a whole has to be catching up with lawyers as a most despised one) close to what they earn. While that may be the case and while you can also hire a competent person for far less (even if it is in the 6-figure range), having the former council for the majority leader in your corner is about as damn good as it gets.

That man can probably pick up the phone and talk to half the town, including Frist himself. Good snag on the NFLs part, especially since they are doing far more than just this gambling stuff.

faustusmedea
10-12-2006, 12:19 AM
Exactly, the PPA probably did a decent job of making the rounds, but when you can hire one of the big guns from K Street, what you are buying is access.

IMHO, what the PPA should have done was take all the funds they received and sought out Stars, FT, Sporting Bet and any of the others and asked for matching funds. After that, they could have been the go between with a lobbying firm with muscle. I never understood why the PPA wasn't actively courting the other sites; or if they were, why the sites did not ante up?

DeliciousBass
10-12-2006, 12:22 AM
The NFL is so lucky.

I have been pleading with my boss to allow the employees of our company to start flinging poo at our customers. I originally suggested dog dukes but since not everyone here has a dog, I said that maybe we could use our own dung if we brought it from home our maybe if we had a big lunch. My boss kept saying things like, "Our customers are the reason we're in business", all around douchey stuff like that.

Anyway, I'm just really jealous that the NFL has implemented my "fling poo at the customers" strategy. We'll see who's right now Bossman!

ericicecream
10-12-2006, 12:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What about the insider trading stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9450770/

The investigation into the insider trading you just have to love. I think Bill Frist will not be our next president. He seems to carry baggage.

[/ QUOTE ]

This article is over a year old. I assume no charges were brought?

ubercuber
10-12-2006, 01:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I have been pleading with my boss to allow the employees of our company to start flinging poo at our customers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hilarious! Too bad I already bought Sunday ticket or I'd boycott the NFL. Yeah right. This was probably pretty smart on their part to get this locked in without sweeping fantasy football in... most of us would have taken a bill that killed casino's and sportsbooks, and carved out poker. I guess they knew a law was coming eventually.

Synergistic Explosions
10-12-2006, 01:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What about the insider trading stuff?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9450770/

The investigation into the insider trading you just have to love. I think Bill Frist will not be our next president. He seems to carry baggage.

[/ QUOTE ]

This article is over a year old. I assume no charges were brought?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are many articles and commentaries posted about this. It's very interesting. Do a google.

As far as him being charged I doubt that will ever happen for obvious reasons.

dlk9s
10-13-2006, 01:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I can trust the information is this article given how completely wrong it is in certain regards. For example:

[ QUOTE ]
The league makes millions of dollars directly from fantasy football, which is much more of a gambling endeavor than poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I certainly consider poker to be a game of skill, but anyone that thinks fantasy sports is gambling is ignorant. To take that further and adamantly degrade the skill involved in fantasy sports clearly renders this article as highly biased garbage.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wrote the article.

I've played fantasy/rotisserie football and baseball for 15 years.

I play poker.

I never said there was no skill in fantasy sports. There is just less than there is in poker.

Megenoita
10-13-2006, 02:34 AM
I don't understand why the NFL wanted this. What exactly are they gaining?