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View Full Version : Neteller up. New Terms of Service


oreopimp
10-02-2006, 06:28 AM
Sign into your account and hit with this baby. Maybe unimportant to some, but might be intresting to others and could start up some discussion.



NETELLER TERMS OF USE

You acknowledge and agree that by checking the “Agree” box on our Website when opening your Account, you agree to abide by the following terms and conditions (“Terms of Use”) concerning your use of the NETELLER Service. If there is any part of the Terms of Use you do not understand or wish to clarify, please contact our Contact Centre at (toll free) 1-888-258-5859 (North America), 00-800-7767-6343 (United Kingdom, France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Denmark, Italy, Norway, Sweden and Finland) or 001-403-233-9466 (all other countries).

These Terms of Use are effective as of September 25, 2006.

1. Definitions

1.1 In these Terms of Use, the following words have the meaning set out beside them:

“Account” means your online stored value account which holds electronic money;

“Fees” means any and all fees and charges levied by NETELLER for your use of the NETELLER Service;

“Member” means any person who meets all eligibility requirements set out in these Terms of Use;

“Merchant” means any commercial or business entity that is validly registered with NETELLER and enabled to receive and send payments to Members;

“NETELLER Service” means the electronic money issuer and transfer service and identity verification service provided by NETELLER;

“NETELLER”, “we”, “our” means NETELLER Operations Limited;

“NETELLER ATM Card” means the automated teller machine card issued by NETELLER for which certain Members may be eligible, as more particularly described in Section 10 hereof;

“NETELLER Exchange Rate” means the exchange rate used by NETELLER on all currency exchange transactions as published on our Website;

“transfer” means, as the context permits, (a) the debiting of an amount of electronic money from your Account and the concurrent crediting of such amount to a Merchant account or other Member account, as designated by you; or (b) the crediting of an amount of electronic money to your Account and the concurrent debiting of a Merchant account or other Member account, in each case less any applicable Fees.

“Website” means the NETELLER.com website, or such other website through which NETELLER may offer the NETELLER Service from time to time.

2. General

2.1 It is a condition of membership that you agree to these Terms of Use, which form a legally binding contract once you become a Member. We may find it necessary to change the Terms of Use from time to time and will notify you of any changes by posting notice of the changes on our Website with a link to the amended Terms of Use. You may review the current Terms of Use prior to initiating any transaction at any time by clicking on the “Terms of Use” page. The Terms of Use will show the most recent revision date. No revision will affect any transaction that is outstanding as of the date of such revision. Use by you of the NETELLER Service indicates your agreement to these Terms of Use. We encourage you to print a copy of the Terms of Use for your future reference.

2.2 The Non-Serviced Countries list, and the NETELLER Complaints Procedure, each as amended from time to time, are incorporated into and form part of these Terms of Use:

3. NETELLER Service

3.1 You acknowledge that (i) NETELLER is not a bank; (ii) Accounts are not insured by any government agency; (iii) NETELLER does not act as a trustee, fiduciary or escrow holder in respect of balances in your Account; and (iv) NETELLER does not pay you interest on any balances in your Account.

3.2 Although you are not required to keep a balance in your Account, if you do have a balance in your Account, funds representing that balance are segregated and pooled with funds representing the balances of other Members in an account held by NETELLER in trust. Any interest earned on the pooled account will be the property of NETELLER.

4. Eligibility

4.1 In order to use the NETELLER Service, you must (i) be at least 18 years of age and of the age of majority, whichever is older, in your country of residence; (ii) open an Account in accordance with the instructions set out in the registration page of our Website; (iii) not be in default of any Terms of Use or otherwise have access limited to your Account, nor have had any previous Account with us terminated by us; and (iv) not be a resident of any country to which NETELLER does not provide the NETELLER Service from time to time as set out in the Non-Serviced Country list referred to in section 2.2 hereof. You may not open more than one Account and we may terminate any or all of the Accounts of a Member who has, or whom we reasonably suspect has, multiple Accounts.

5. Membership

5.1 To become a Member, you must open an Account by completing all requested information. A Member must maintain an active address, phone number and email address to become and remain a Member. You will not provide any false, inaccurate, incomplete or misleading information. You will not provide any name, bank account or credit card that you are not legally authorized to use. You may not permit any other person to use your Account. You will promptly update your Account details on the Website if your name, address, email address, phone number, credit card or bank account information changes. You will not be able to use the NETELLER Service until you have passed our identity and security validation and verification checks.

6. Account Activity

6.1 By opening an Account, you will be able to, subject to payment of any applicable Fees and compliance with these Terms of Use: (i) purchase electronic money to be credited to your Account so that you may make transfers to, and receive transfers from, Merchants or other Members; and (ii) redeem electronic money from your Account.

6.2 Adding to your Account: In order to purchase electronic money to be credited to your Account, you may choose from one or more payment options available to you depending on your country of residence. You must also complete the information requested, including passing all identity and security validation and verification checks. You authorize us to obtain or receive funds on your behalf from your chosen payment source, plus applicable Fees, and then issue electronic money to your Account.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, certain purchase options entitle you to have us fund electronic money to your Account by debiting an account at your financial institution. In the event we are advised of insufficient funds in such account, we may re-present such uncleared payment at your financial institution up to two more times. In addition we may debit the applicable insufficient funds charge and such uncleared payment from your Account, obtain it from your designated financial institution or otherwise collect it from you.

6.3 Transfers: You may make transfers by completing the information on the “Transferring Funds” page of our Website. In some cases you may be able to make transfers from the website of a Merchant. You authorize us to debit from your Account any applicable Fees at the time of any transfer. When making transfers, you may not designate an amount in excess of the balance in your Account at the time the request is made plus the applicable Fees. If you attempt to do so, your transfer request will be denied.

The amount of any transfer received will be credited to your Account balance, less any applicable Fees. If a transfer credited to your Account is reversed by the sender prior to you transferring or redeeming any part of it, the amount of the transfer will be returned to the sender and no Fees will be owing by you.

6.4 Redemption: You may redeem at par all or a portion of the balance of electronic money in your Account (excluding amounts that have not cleared your financial institution) by selecting one of the redemption methods available to you in your country of residence set out in the “Withdrawing Funds” page of our Website. You will be able to redeem any uncleared amounts once they clear. We will process the redemption request immediately provided all identity and security validation and verification checks are successfully completed, which we will conduct as soon as reasonably practicable. Depending on the method of redemption you choose, a Fee may be applicable which will be deducted from the balance in your Account prior to redemption. You may not redeem funds less than the applicable Fee. We will take reasonable steps to ensure that redeemed funds are received by you within five (5) business days of the redemption request. However, we shall not be liable for delays in the redemption of funds where those delays are caused by any third party involved in the redemption.

6.5 You acknowledge that certain of our electronic money purchase, transfer and redemption options require different types of identity and security validation and verification checks, including use of third party validation and verification systems, and you agree to submit to such identity and security validation and verification checks if you choose such options. You also acknowledge that certain of our electronic money purchase, transfer and redemption options impose certain minimum and maximum limits and these are indicated when you view the various options on the applicable webpage on our Website. We reserve the right to impose limits on the purchase, transfer and redemption amounts and frequency you may use such options, and to change such limits from time to time without notice.

7. Fees

You are responsible for the payment of all applicable Fees. Fees are indicated on the applicable web page or prior to your completing a transaction. Fees include our NSF reprocessing charges if there are insufficient funds from your payment source. If you are unclear as to any applicable Fee, please contact our Contact Centre prior to completing any transaction. All Fees are due immediately and are subject to change at any time. You are responsible for, and we may deduct from your Account, all costs incurred by us to recover Fees and other amounts that you owe us, including, without limitation, collection fees and legal fees on a solicitor and client basis.

8. Chargeback

8.1 If you purchase electronic money using your credit card or though your bank account and then authorize a payment to a Merchant or other Member of the funds issued to your Account in exchange, you will not charge back, cancel or de-authorize the credit card or bank account charge. Without limiting our rights or remedies, if you do charge back, cancel or de-authorize your credit card or bank account charge in such circumstances, you are responsible for refunding the payment. We may, at our discretion, recover the amount by reducing your Account balance, re-charging your credit card or bank account for the amount or otherwise collecting such amount from you.

9. Currency

9.1 When you register your Account, you have the option of choosing from a list of currencies for holding any Account balance. You may only change the currency once by contacting us at currencychange@neteller.com or call our Contact Centre. Your request for a currency change may take up two weeks to process and the exchange rate applied will be the NETELLER Exchange Rate at the time the processing takes place.

10. NETELLER ATM Cards

10.1 Depending on your country of residence, you may be eligible for a NETELLER ATM card which may be used from certain automated teller machines and point of sale machines throughout the world. To be eligible for a NETELLER ATM card, you must pass the identity and security validation and verification checks applicable to your country of residence. The NETELLER ATM card is not a credit card. You must transfer funds from your Account to the NETELLER ATM card before you are able to use your NETELLER ATM card at ATMs. You can transfer funds to your NETELLER ATM card in the “Withdrawal Options” section of our Website. We will not allow instant transfers to your NETELLER ATM card from certain sources, such as by the InstaCash method or by your credit card.

10.2 If your NETELLER ATM card is lost or stolen, you must notify us immediately at netellercard@neteller.com or call our Contact Centre. It is your responsibility to keep your PIN number confidential, and if we determine that your failure to keep your PIN number confidential resulted in funds being stolen from your NETELLER ATM card, we are under no obligation to refund your Account with the amount stolen. Absent such failure, and provided you notify us immediately if your NETELLER ATM card is lost or stolen, we will refund your Account with the amount lost or stolen from your NETELLER ATM card.

10.3 If you want to cancel your NETELLER ATM card or if you have any questions about your NETELLER ATM card transactions, please contact us at netellercard@neteller.com or call our Contact Centre.

10.4 Fees associated with the NETELLER ATM card are set out in the NETELLER ATM card webpage on the Website. Dormant card charges are imposed by the NETELLER ATM card processor and are passed through by NETELLER. NETELLER ATM cards are subject to minimum and maximum transfer levels which can be viewed at the “Withdrawal Options” section of our Website.

11. Reward or Promotional Programs

11.1 From time to time, we may offer reward programs or other promotional programs, such as the NETpoints Reward Program. We reserve the right to cancel or amend the terms of any such reward or promotional program at our discretion.

12. Other Member Obligations

12.1 You are prohibited from engaging in any of the following:
(i) using the NETELLER Service to obtain a cash advance from your credit card ( or assisting others in such activity); (ii) using the NETELLER Service for any purpose contrary to laws, statutes or regulations applicable to you, including without limitation, those concerning money laundering, fraud, criminal activity, financial services or consumer protection; (iii) sending unsolicited email or similar methods of mass messaging (spam); (iv) harassing or engaging in obscene, rude or abusive behaviour against us or any of our representatives; and (v) tampering, hacking, modifying, damaging, interfering with or otherwise corrupting the security or functionality of the NETELLER Service, or attempting to do any of the foregoing.

12.2 It is your responsibility to keep your Account identification, secure identification, password, security questions and answers and other information specific to your Account confidential and in a safe and secure place. This includes ensuring the ongoing security of your log-in details on your personal computer device for accessing the Internet. Should another person gain access to your Account by passing all identification and security validation and verification checks, we are entitled to treat any transaction conducted by that person as valid and are not responsible under any circumstances for any loss or damage you may incur as a result.

12.3 You are fully responsible for any goods or services bought by you that are settled through your use of the NETELLER Service. Any dispute with a Merchant regarding any product or service bought by you through the NETELLER Service is between you and the Merchant and you agree that NETELLER shall not be a party to such dispute.

12.4 You are fully responsible for the instructions you give NETELLER and as a result we may not be able to detect errors in your payment instructions. NETELLER does not provide any warranties, representations, conditions or guarantees with respect to such goods and services.

12.5 You acknowledge and agree that except for Merchant error as confirmed by us, illegal activity involving your Account, or any breach by you of our Terms of Use, all electronic money purchases, transfers or withdrawals into or out of your Account are final and not reversible.

12.6 You acknowledge that your intended recipient of a transfer is not required to accept the transfer. If an intended recipient declines a transfer, your Account will be re-credited with the amount of the transfer and no Fees will be charged.

13. Privacy

13.1 Your acceptance of our Privacy Policy at the time of your enrollment as a Member forms part of these Terms of Use and we would ask you to review the Privacy Policy prior to agreeing to these Terms of Use. Any person who enters the correct account and security information relating to the Account and who otherwise passes our identity and security validation and verification checks will be able to access your Account. Therefore, in order to safeguard the privacy of your Account and personal information, you should not divulge your password or other security information to anyone else. You are solely responsible for safeguarding your password and other security information. You may not use anyone else’s password or security information to gain access to another Account.

13.2 You acknowledge and accept that: (i) when speaking to customer service agents at NETELLER, your call is monitored and/or recorded for quality assurance, training and security protection purposes; and (ii) for fraud and security purposes your records are kept by NETELLER even after your Account is terminated.

14. Limiting Access or Terminating your Account

14.1 At our discretion, we may suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to send or redeem, transfer or withdraw electronic money from your Account, limiting your payment sources) or terminate your Account, at any time and for any reason, including but not limited to the following:

(a) breach of any of these Terms of Use;
(b) if we have reasonable grounds to believe that your Account has been used in connection with unauthorized or unusual credit card or bank account use, including without limitation, notice of same by your bank or credit card issuer;
(c) abuse by you of the reversal or charge back process provided by your bank or credit card company;
(d) receipt in your Account of potentially fraudulent funds;
(e) refusal to cooperate in an investigation or to provide adequate confirmation of identity or other identity or security information when requested;
(f) initiation of transactions that may be considered to be cash advances or assisting in cash advances;
(g) we believe your Account has been used or allegedly used in or to facilitate fraudulent or illegal activity;
(h) return of a payment for insufficient funds in the bank account;
(i) we believe that your Account, whether active or dormant, or your conduct, poses a security, credit, fraud or business risk to us; and
(j) to comply with money laundering or terrorist financing investigations conducted by government authorities, agencies or commissions.
14.2 If we terminate your Account, we will notify you either by phone or email according to the most recent phone number or email address that you have provided us with in order to send you any unrestricted or undisputed funds in your Account (being funds not involved or otherwise connected with the circumstance giving rise to the termination).

14.3 If you do not access your Account for a period of two (2) years, it will be terminated. After termination, we will notify you at the last address you provided to try to send you any unrestricted or undisputed funds in redemption of the funds in your Account. If that information is not correct and we are unable to complete the payment to you, the electronic money credited to your Account will be forfeited to NETELLER as of 12 months following the date your Account is terminated.

15. Warranties, Liabilities and Disclaimers

15. NETELLER reserves the right to validate and verify any of the information you provide with third parties at any time.

15.2 Without limiting section 6, NETELLER shall make reasonable efforts to ensure that requests for debits and credits involving bank accounts and cheque issuances are processed in a timely manner. However, a number of factors, several of which are outside of our control, will contribute to when the processing will be completed. We make no representations or warranties regarding the amount of time needed to complete processing, such as delays in the banking system or your local mail service. We make no representations or warranties as to continuous, uninterrupted or secure access to the NETELLER Service, which may be affected by factors outside our control, or may be subject to periodic testing, repair, upgrade or maintenance.

15.3 We assume that prior to opening your Account, you have determined that opening and maintaining your Account does not violate any law or regulations in your country of residence and jurisdiction. You warrant that you are not violating any laws or regulations by your use of the NETELLER Service and you agree to indemnify NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents and subcontractors, from and against any and all liability that might arise from your use of the NETELLER Service in violation of any law or regulation.

15.4 WE MAKE NO EXPRESS WARRANTIES, GUARANTEES OR CONDITIONS TO YOU WITH RESPECT OT THE NETELLER SERVICE EXCEPT AS SET OUT IN THESE TERMS OF USE, AND ALL IMPLIED AND STATUTORY WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY WARRANTY OR CONDITION OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE,OR OF MERCHANTABLE QUALITY, OR OF COMPLIANCE WITH ANY DESCRIPTION, ARE HEREBY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED.

15.5 Neither NETELLER nor any of its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents or subcontractors shall be responsible for any claim, loss or damage suffered or incurred by you or any third party unless it has been caused as a direct result of our negligence or willful misconduct; provided that under no circumstances shall NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents or subcontractors be liable for any claim, loss or damage caused or alleged to be caused by any of the following:

(a) errors made by you or any Merchant or other Member in sending or receiving transfers or withdrawals, such as making a transfer to an unintended person or transferring an incorrect amount;
(b) use of your Account by another person who passes all identity and security validation and verification checks;
(c) failure by you to use up to date virus scanning software and firewall protection on the computer or other device you use to access the Internet;
(d) any fraud or misrepresentation made by a Merchant or Member, even if the Merchant or Member passes all identity and security validation and verification checks;
(e) errors or omissions in our Website content;
(f) misuse or inability to use our Website, whether due to reasons within our control or not;
(g) delays, losses, errors or omissions caused by the failure, interruption, infiltration or corruption of any hardware, software or other telecommunications or data transmission system;
(h) interception or seizure compelled by law; and
(i) circumstances beyond our reasonable control.
15.6 IN NO EVENT SHALL NETELLER OR ITS AFFILIATES, SUBSIDIARIES, AGENTS OR SUBCONTRACTORS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE, EXEMPLARY OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, WHETHER BASED ON NEGLIGENCE, WILFUL MISCONDUCT, TORT, CONTRACT (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION FUNDAMENTAL BREACH OR BREACH OF A FUNDAMENTAL TERM) OR ANY OTHER THEORY OF LAW, OR FOR ANY DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF INCOME, FAILURE TO REALIZE EXPECTED REVENUES OR SAVINGS, LOSS OF PROFITS OR ANY ECONOMIC OR PECUNIARY LOSS.

15.7 We disclaim any and all liability for any goods or services bought or sold by you that are settled through your use of the NETELLER Service.

15.8 You agree to indemnify NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents and subcontractors from and against any and all claims brought by third parties against NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents or subcontractors relating to your use of the NETELLER Service in respect of all claims, losses, damages, expenses and liabilities whatsoever suffered or incurred by NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents or subcontractors as a result of your breach of these Terms of Use.

15.9 NETELLER retains all right, title, and interest in and to all trademarks, trade names, logos, website designs, text, content and graphics, and any use, reproduction, modification, distribution by you is prohibited.

16. Complaints Procedure

16.1 We refer you to the NETELLER complaints procedure referred to in section 2.2 hereof for any complaint or dispute you may have concerning your Account.

16.2 You agree to waive any right you may have to commence or participate in any class action suit or proceeding against NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents and subcontractors arising out of or relating to any dispute, claim or error and you also agree to opt out of any class proceedings against us.

16.3 We encourage you to inspect your Account history online and to print a copy of all transaction data for future reference. If your Account history shows transactions that you did not make or authorize, notify us at once.

17. General

17.1 NETELLER may engage the services of one or more affiliates, subsidiaries, agents or subcontractors in order to fulfill its obligations.

17.2 These Terms of Use shall be governed by the laws of the Isle of Man. All disputes arising out of or relating to these Terms of Use shall be resolved by the Courts of the Isle of Man, except where Isle of Man legislation requires a specific dispute to be resolved by the courts of another jurisdiction.

17.3 We may send communications and notices to you at the email address or postal address you provided to us during the registration process (or as updated subsequently by you). Any and all communications and notices by either party under these Terms of Use by email shall be deemed given on the day the email is sent, unless the sending party receives an electronic indication that the email was not delivered; and if by mail, shall be deemed given ten (10) business days after the date of mailing.

17.4 These Terms of Use are subject to amendment, modification or deletion if required by, or found to be in conflict with, applicable law or regulation, without affecting the validity or enforceability of the remaining terms and conditions. These Terms of Use constitute the entire agreement between the parties with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersede and replace any and all prior agreements. In the event of inconsistency between this version of the Terms of Use and the version online at http://www.neteller.com, the online version will prevail.

17.5 Our failure to exercise or enforce any right under these Terms of Use shall not be deemed to be a waiver of any such right or operate to bar the exercise or enforcement thereof at any time or times thereafter.

17.6 The rights and remedies available to NETELLER in these Terms of Use are cumulative and are in addition to any other right or remedy available to NETELLER at law or in equity.

17.7 You may not transfer, assign, subcontract or delegate your rights, duties or obligations under these Terms of Use. We reserve the right to assign all or any part of our rights, duties and obligations under this Agreement, including the assignment of contractual position, novation, or any other form of substitution of NETELLER by another party, which assignment you hereby irrevocably and unconditionally consent to.

Ron Burgundy
10-02-2006, 06:29 AM
oh goddammit too many words

coolrobp
10-02-2006, 06:30 AM
I did not get this when I logged in.

hedxcold
10-02-2006, 06:31 AM
you can defer it the first time and make a decision the next.

Iq75
10-02-2006, 06:32 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I did not get this when I logged in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here. I'm european; Is it possible that they chanced it only to US customers?

schwah
10-02-2006, 06:33 AM
i clicked defer, someone wanna figure out what they changed?

my guess is they added some sort of clause that holds the client responsible for making sure transactions are legal in their jurisdiction, but thats a guess and im way too lazy to read that many words

toss
10-02-2006, 06:34 AM
I'm US and I got it.

wheelz
10-02-2006, 06:35 AM
i'm canadian and i got it. stars still won't accept my deposit request though. i figured i might end up regretting cashing everything out of there.

MasterLJ
10-02-2006, 06:35 AM
I don't know what the previous TOS said, but...

[ QUOTE ]
12.1 You are prohibited from engaging in any of the following:
(i) using the NETELLER Service to obtain a cash advance from your credit card ( or assisting others in such activity); (ii) using the NETELLER Service for any purpose contrary to laws, statutes or regulations applicable to you, including without limitation, those concerning money laundering, fraud, criminal activity, financial services or consumer protection; (iii) sending unsolicited email or similar methods of mass messaging (spam); (iv) harassing or engaging in obscene, rude or abusive behaviour against us or any of our representatives; and (v) tampering, hacking, modifying, damaging, interfering with or otherwise corrupting the security or functionality of the NETELLER Service, or attempting to do any of the foregoing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like they may be trying to throw the ball back in the consumer's court and trying to indemnify themselves. But then again, they say "statutes or regulations applicable to you," which is not the new bill, since it is a regulation on financial institutions and not individual players.

XxPenguinxX
10-02-2006, 06:36 AM
Note that the list of "Non-Serviced Countries" does not include the US.

Artdogg
10-02-2006, 06:39 AM
did any of you who cashed out while neteller was down recieve your money yet? I did (3-4 hours ago) and havent gotten it

oreopimp
10-02-2006, 06:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know what the previous TOS said, but...

[ QUOTE ]
12.1 You are prohibited from engaging in any of the following:
(i) using the NETELLER Service to obtain a cash advance from your credit card ( or assisting others in such activity); (ii) using the NETELLER Service for any purpose contrary to laws, statutes or regulations applicable to you, including without limitation, those concerning money laundering, fraud, criminal activity, financial services or consumer protection; (iii) sending unsolicited email or similar methods of mass messaging (spam); (iv) harassing or engaging in obscene, rude or abusive behaviour against us or any of our representatives; and (v) tampering, hacking, modifying, damaging, interfering with or otherwise corrupting the security or functionality of the NETELLER Service, or attempting to do any of the foregoing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like they may be trying to throw the ball back in the consumer's court and trying to indemnify themselves. But then again, they say "statutes or regulations applicable to you," which is not the new bill, since it is a regulation on financial institutions and not individual players.

[/ QUOTE ]

some sort of stance like UB is taking would be nice, where its up to the consumer to deem what the legality is of using their service.

00Snitch
10-02-2006, 06:41 AM
oh [censored] me thats alot of reading. im from aus and i got it...

duvvard
10-02-2006, 06:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
did any of you who cashed out while neteller was down recieve your money yet? I did (3-4 hours ago) and havent gotten it

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, I requested a cashout from stars like 3 hours ago, money is not in stars or neteller.

SirArthur
10-02-2006, 06:48 AM
15.3 15.3 We assume that prior to opening your Account, you have determined that opening and maintaining your Account does not violate any law or regulations in your country of residence and jurisdiction. You warrant that you are not violating any laws or regulations by your use of the NETELLER Service and you agree to indemnify NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents and subcontractors, from and against any and all liability that might arise from your use of the NETELLER Service in violation of any law or regulation.

Didn't read all of the new TOS, but found this to be of particular interest.

MasterLJ
10-02-2006, 06:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]




15.3 15.3 We assume that prior to opening your Account, you have determined that opening and maintaining your Account does not violate any law or regulations in your country of residence and jurisdiction. You warrant that you are not violating any laws or regulations by your use of the NETELLER Service and you agree to indemnify NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents and subcontractors, from and against any and all liability that might arise from your use of the NETELLER Service in violation of any law or regulation.

Didn't read all of the new TOS, but found this to be of particular interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... that was exactly what I thought 12.1 was trying to say.

It's funny that Neteller is trying to idemnify themselves from the customer. They can be indemnified from any suit from a Neteller user, but it would NOT indemnify them from action from the Federal government.

TheMetetron
10-02-2006, 06:54 AM
Didn't get it (EU user).

00Snitch
10-02-2006, 06:54 AM
yer, i very lightly skimmed it and accpeted. us aussies are fine /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Lawman
10-02-2006, 06:55 AM
If neteller is doing something the US government deems illegal, these T&C's won't get them off the hook UNLESS the customer lies about residency.

MasterLJ
10-02-2006, 06:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If neteller is doing something the US government deems illegal, these T&C's won't get them off the hook UNLESS the customer lies about residency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you're right. I'm just friggin' tired. I edited my post, it should have read that the clause does NOT indemnify Neteller from Federal laws.

weredoingit
10-02-2006, 07:12 AM
Can anyone figure out what the consequences of accepting the new terms of service are?

Iq75
10-02-2006, 07:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did any of you who cashed out while neteller was down recieve your money yet? I did (3-4 hours ago) and havent gotten it

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, I requested a cashout from stars like 3 hours ago, money is not in stars or neteller.

[/ QUOTE ]

I requested a cashout from Victor Chandler friday noon at my time, money is not in VC or neteller.

Can anybody remember how long it usually takes?

whangarei
10-02-2006, 07:16 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did any of you who cashed out while neteller was down recieve your money yet? I did (3-4 hours ago) and havent gotten it

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, I requested a cashout from stars like 3 hours ago, money is not in stars or neteller.

[/ QUOTE ]

When Neteller is down cashouts do not get processed. Stars will send an email to you to this effect and you will need to redo your cashout.

five4suited
10-02-2006, 07:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]




15.3 15.3 We assume that prior to opening your Account, you have determined that opening and maintaining your Account does not violate any law or regulations in your country of residence and jurisdiction. You warrant that you are not violating any laws or regulations by your use of the NETELLER Service and you agree to indemnify NETELLER, its affiliates, subsidiaries, agents and subcontractors, from and against any and all liability that might arise from your use of the NETELLER Service in violation of any law or regulation.

Didn't read all of the new TOS, but found this to be of particular interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... that was exactly what I thought 12.1 was trying to say.

It's funny that Neteller is trying to idemnify themselves from the customer. They can be indemnified from any suit from a Neteller user, but it would NOT indemnify them from action from the Federal government.

[/ QUOTE ]


no, not funny at all. /images/graemlins/frown.gif they are indemnifying themselves from their customers because they may have to/elect to give the feds their US transaction records pertaining to the poker sites.

Dave G.
10-02-2006, 07:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did any of you who cashed out while neteller was down recieve your money yet? I did (3-4 hours ago) and havent gotten it

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, I requested a cashout from stars like 3 hours ago, money is not in stars or neteller.

[/ QUOTE ]
I requested cash out from Party about 4 hours ago. All of the money arrived in my Neteller account about 20 minutes ago. So, looks like everything is working as far as poker site -> neteller goes.

WalkAmongUs
10-02-2006, 08:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Can anyone figure out what the consequences of accepting the new terms of service are?

[/ QUOTE ]

curious123
10-02-2006, 09:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
14.1 At our discretion, we may suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to send or redeem, transfer or withdraw electronic money from your Account, limiting your payment sources) or terminate your Account, at any time and for any reason, including but not limited to the following:

[/ QUOTE ]

Was this always in there?

GutPunch
10-02-2006, 09:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
14.1 At our discretion, we may suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to send or redeem, transfer or withdraw electronic money from your Account, limiting your payment sources) or terminate your Account, at any time and for any reason, including but not limited to the following:

[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
3.1 You acknowledge that (i) NETELLER is not a bank; (ii) Accounts are not insured by any government agency; (iii) NETELLER does not act as a trustee, fiduciary or escrow holder in respect of balances in your Account; and (iv) NETELLER does not pay you interest on any balances in your Account.

[/ QUOTE ]


Do these statements mean that they can "steal" any money that you have in your account?

mother_brain
10-02-2006, 09:29 AM
Its gonna be a long week.

uTz
10-02-2006, 09:33 AM
No Probs with Neteller here. Cashouts and deposits works for me (Germany).

curious123
10-02-2006, 09:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
No Probs with Neteller here. Cashouts and deposits works for me (Germany).

[/ QUOTE ]

But did you have to agree to the new T&Cs?

Dunkman
10-02-2006, 09:34 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
14.1 At our discretion, we may suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to send or redeem, transfer or withdraw electronic money from your Account, limiting your payment sources) or terminate your Account, at any time and for any reason, including but not limited to the following:

[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
3.1 You acknowledge that (i) NETELLER is not a bank; (ii) Accounts are not insured by any government agency; (iii) NETELLER does not act as a trustee, fiduciary or escrow holder in respect of balances in your Account; and (iv) NETELLER does not pay you interest on any balances in your Account.

[/ QUOTE ]


Do these statements mean that they can "steal" any money that you have in your account?

[/ QUOTE ]

These look like pretty standard TOS statements to me, the one about making sure it's legal in your area is the only one that looks odd.

breaktwister
10-02-2006, 09:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If neteller is doing something the US government deems illegal, these T&C's won't get them off the hook UNLESS the customer lies about residency.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you're right. I'm just friggin' tired. I edited my post, it should have read that the clause does NOT indemnify Neteller from Federal laws.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh- Neteller dont actually give a stuff about any Federal laws. Why should they? They are not an US company and any US laws do not directly apply to them.

curious123
10-02-2006, 09:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ahhh- Neteller dont actually give a stuff about any Federal laws. Why should they? They are not an US company and any US laws do not directly apply to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your opinion, but they didn't seem to find it so clear according to the statement they released to investors.

breaktwister
10-02-2006, 09:48 AM
Dunkman - you will find this disclaimer on all gaming websites products or I would guess any relate industry. It is simply to cover their back in the event that Federal charges are pressed (or indeed legal procedings brought in some other country) and the individual says "Hey, I was allowed to use the service - I thought if was illegal I wouldnt be allowed to use it."

As others have posted here, Neteller is an international company and is regulated by UK law. It simply puts the onus on the comsumer to check their own legal position before using the service. Why should a UK company regulate itself according to US law? It shouldn't.

Saying this - if you are a US citizen using Neteller is not illegal. Using Neteller to fund gaming sites is also not illegal under the new legislation. I know that many State statutes make online gambling "illegal" for years but no action has been taken against punters by US authorities.

Whether or not their attitude will change now remains to be seen.

alvaroaze
10-02-2006, 09:49 AM
Brazil here, just signed up and had to accept or decline the new TOS

yoursmine
10-02-2006, 10:22 AM
Couple of things
The list of non serviced countries was from 1/05
The statement points out they are not a bank

kidpokeher
10-02-2006, 10:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
14. Limiting Access or Terminating your Account

14.1 At our discretion, we may suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to send or redeem, transfer or withdraw electronic money from your Account, limiting your payment sources) or terminate your Account, at any time and for any reason, including but not limited to the following:

(a) breach of any of these Terms of Use;
(b) if we have reasonable grounds to believe that your Account has been used in connection with unauthorized or unusual credit card or bank account use, including without limitation, notice of same by your bank or credit card issuer;
(c) abuse by you of the reversal or charge back process provided by your bank or credit card company;
(d) receipt in your Account of potentially fraudulent funds;
(e) refusal to cooperate in an investigation or to provide adequate confirmation of identity or other identity or security information when requested;
(f) initiation of transactions that may be considered to be cash advances or assisting in cash advances;
(g) we believe your Account has been used or allegedly used in or to facilitate fraudulent or illegal activity;
(h) return of a payment for insufficient funds in the bank account;
(i) we believe that your Account, whether active or dormant, or your conduct, poses a security, credit, fraud or business risk to us; and
(j) to comply with money laundering or terrorist financing investigations conducted by government authorities, agencies or commissions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hit defer.

Copernicus
10-02-2006, 11:24 AM
This looks like good news to me. Whether they are asking to reaffirm old TOS or these are new, they arent blocking.

Use InstaCash to fund, get a check payout. The money passes thru neteller for an instant, but unless they decide to attempt ongoing fraud (as opposed to a one time "take the money and run" which would make them more money) they arent going to interecept transfers.

Bogglor
10-02-2006, 11:43 AM
So nobody knows if that language about how they can abscond with your funds at any point is a new addition or part of the old TOS?

MikeyPatriot
10-02-2006, 12:53 PM
Is there a consensus about the new TOS yet?

donger
10-02-2006, 01:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This looks like good news to me. Whether they are asking to reaffirm old TOS or these are new, they arent blocking.

Use InstaCash to fund, get a check payout. The money passes thru neteller for an instant, but unless they decide to attempt ongoing fraud (as opposed to a one time "take the money and run" which would make them more money) they arent going to interecept transfers.

[/ QUOTE ]

As if this is their final position. This bill hasn't even been signed into law yet.

weredoingit
10-02-2006, 02:06 PM
I still haven't heard a response as to whether those of us who have funds in neteller ought to accept the new terms, or whether we are giving up important rights by doing so. Can anyone comment on this?

Pnigro
10-02-2006, 02:45 PM
I have a question! I'm from Costa Rica and use Neteller for cashing out, but it is not linked to any bank, I use the Neteller Debit Card.

Am I still going to be able to cash out through Neteller?

SoBeDude
10-02-2006, 03:04 PM
Just talked to neteller VIP services.

he was actually quite informed on all of this.

He explained that the new wording was drafted before all this and is not based on the new law.

He said that the new wording is to allow them to freeze the funds/accounts of suspected illegal actions like money-launderers and such.

He also reminded me that neteller is a publicly traded company on the London Stock Exchange and all funds are kept in Trust accounts.

He also sent me this link:
http://content.neteller.com/content/en/member_businessupdate.htm

We're not going to have any problem with neteller.

-Scott

Phil123
10-02-2006, 06:46 PM
I just signed in to Neteller and nothing came up about new terms and conditions. I'm in the UK.

kslghost
10-02-2006, 07:03 PM
If a company is publically trade, it is HIGHLY unlikely they will steal your money because then they would be commiting SERIOUS crimes. Crimes FAR MORE serious than anything involved in this new anti-gambling law.

AlienBoy
10-02-2006, 07:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If neteller is doing something the US government deems illegal, these T&C's won't get them off the hook UNLESS the customer lies about residency.

[/ QUOTE ]


It does not matter what the US gov thinks - Neteteller is not a US company and is "beyond reach" of the seig heil arm of the nazis in Washington.


AB

TruePoker CEO
10-02-2006, 07:20 PM
Thanks for the update.

AceCR9
10-02-2006, 07:23 PM
cliff notes of new TOS agreement please

KingGeorgeC
10-02-2006, 07:38 PM
Hmmmm. I just really have one question. Can I use my Neteller debit card after the bill is signed?

If worse comes to worse, I can drive down to Mexico and use a ATM down there to cash out.

keikiwai
10-02-2006, 07:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm. I just really have one question. Can I use my Neteller debit card after the bill is signed?

If worse comes to worse, I can drive down to Mexico and use a ATM down there to cash out.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] you... i live in Hawaii

DCWildcat
10-02-2006, 08:39 PM
I withdrew all my money from party earlier; Party says the transfer was a success, but when I tried to log into neteller, it said my account had been closed.

Wtf? I haven't used neteller in a long while so it might have been prior to the fiasco of the last few days, but considering that I never received an email about it, this is kind of shady.

SwordFish
10-02-2006, 08:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I withdrew all my money from party earlier; Party says the transfer was a success, but when I tried to log into neteller, it said my account had been closed.

Wtf? I haven't used neteller in a long while so it might have been prior to the fiasco of the last few days, but considering that I never received an email about it, this is kind of shady.

[/ QUOTE ]


Call Neteller security, this was not unusual even before all of this started. There are many reasons why they lock an account and one simple phone call usually clears it up


SF

Xhad
10-02-2006, 08:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
14.1 At our discretion, we may suspend or limit access to your Account (including without limitation, placing a hold on funds in your Account, limiting your ability to send or redeem, transfer or withdraw electronic money from your Account, limiting your payment sources) or terminate your Account, at any time and for any reason, including but not limited to the following:

[/ QUOTE ]


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
3.1 You acknowledge that (i) NETELLER is not a bank; (ii) Accounts are not insured by any government agency; (iii) NETELLER does not act as a trustee, fiduciary or escrow holder in respect of balances in your Account; and (iv) NETELLER does not pay you interest on any balances in your Account.

[/ QUOTE ]


Do these statements mean that they can "steal" any money that you have in your account?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason for these statements is that banks have a limited window on how long they can hold funds for any reason. For example if you deposit a $4000 cashier's check from Nigeria, the bank is often obligated to release the funds before the cashier's check actually clears, which is how some of the more heinous scams work.

kdotsky
10-02-2006, 08:59 PM
The privacy policy was updated too. Why has nobody gone over this as well?

mistaken
10-03-2006, 12:05 AM
yes and so can any poker site... however nobody is going to steal your money because the word will get out and everybody will stop using their site. These companies aren't going to shaft themsevles even if they're willing to shaft individual people

mikever
10-03-2006, 12:12 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[censored] you... i live in Hawaii

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] you ... i don't.

fullhouse
10-03-2006, 12:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I just signed in to Neteller and nothing came up about new terms and conditions. I'm in Germany.

[/ QUOTE ]

gdsdiscgolfer
10-03-2006, 12:21 AM
How's Neteller->bank and Neteller->Neteller debit card working?

Nate tha\\\' Great
10-03-2006, 12:29 AM
Guys,

Terms of Service agreements are routinely written along the lines of "You're our little bitch, and we can bend you over while eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwitch anytime we want to. By the way, your breath stinks." I also think I've heard (not 100% certain about this) that a ToS agreement is not necessarily binding on the end-user when it comes into conflict with other priniples of common law.

Either way, this is nothing to get worked up about.

Halstad
10-03-2006, 12:39 AM
Cashed out of Party this morning with no problems, money was in Neteller in a few hours. I don't get any ToS when I log into Neteller (US). Any other Americans not get the new ToS?

TurtleninjaHendy
10-03-2006, 12:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Just talked to neteller VIP services.

he was actually quite informed on all of this.

He explained that the new wording was drafted before all this and is not based on the new law.

He said that the new wording is to allow them to freeze the funds/accounts of suspected illegal actions like money-launderers and such.

He also reminded me that neteller is a publicly traded company on the London Stock Exchange and all funds are kept in Trust accounts.

He also sent me this link:
http://content.neteller.com/content/en/member_businessupdate.htm

We're not going to have any problem with neteller.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... To be honest, this whole thing sketches me the [censored] out. I felt some heat coming, and thankfully have cashed out all my funds from neteller, party, paradise, etc. I'm not accepting the new terms and conditions... I'm not even going to log into neteller anymore period and will just send emails to have the accounts closed. I was never really a big fan of live poker and loved bonuswhoring at lower limits (.50/1 and 1/2), but I guess I'm headed to the boats for my next game because I don't want to risk any problems. With Party's recent announcement of their course of action if (when) Bush signs this horrid bill (closing US accts) and now this from Neteller, I'm terribly suspicious. If Neteller did just happen to come up with these new Terms & Conditions around the time of other recent news, then they definitely made a poor PR move. I personally doubt the VIP's words and think there are other factors involved that he chose not to mention. Plus, I've been involved with extensive bonuswhoring since before I signed up on this forum and am afraid that my Neteller transaction history could be considered somewhat fraudulant from a personal perspective. Though I have been reading the posts for a long time and not really taken the time to respond to many posts, this whole issue is a red flag for me and I, regretfully, must step away from Online gambling for a long, long time.

My intention is not to spook, but rather warn those out there who have been engaged in activity that could be considered fraudulant or such (you know who you are...) to be very careful as time goes on.

On a side note, I suspect these major poker companies that are considering to close (Party) or already have closed(Pacific, Eurobet)US customer accounts are not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts or their respect for the US government - every business move is made with an incentive, and I'm afraid these companies' reasons for their actions are simply being kept unclear to US citizens.

The optimistic message from the PPA concerning how different online poker is from other forms of gambling did not sway me too much... I hope all ends well, but this has gone far enough for me and ends officially today.

Good luck to everyone.

dibbs
10-03-2006, 02:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Just talked to neteller VIP services.

he was actually quite informed on all of this.

He explained that the new wording was drafted before all this and is not based on the new law.

He said that the new wording is to allow them to freeze the funds/accounts of suspected illegal actions like money-launderers and such.

He also reminded me that neteller is a publicly traded company on the London Stock Exchange and all funds are kept in Trust accounts.

He also sent me this link:
http://content.neteller.com/content/en/member_businessupdate.htm

We're not going to have any problem with neteller.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]


I do find it interesting/a bit troubling though that posters here from Europe have not had this thing pop up(I think one Australian said it popped up), making me question if he was telling the truth about it not being based on the new law.

I trust Neteller personally, but am still cautious about this thing for some reason.

SNOWBALL
10-03-2006, 02:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Use InstaCash to fund, get a check payout.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats the interest on instacash? 8%?
Are there any sites that will pay this for you?

fearme
10-03-2006, 02:47 AM
im from the u.s. but didnt get the tos as well

TurtleninjaHendy
10-03-2006, 03:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just talked to neteller VIP services.

he was actually quite informed on all of this.

He explained that the new wording was drafted before all this and is not based on the new law.

He said that the new wording is to allow them to freeze the funds/accounts of suspected illegal actions like money-launderers and such.

He also reminded me that neteller is a publicly traded company on the London Stock Exchange and all funds are kept in Trust accounts.

He also sent me this link:
http://content.neteller.com/content/en/member_businessupdate.htm

We're not going to have any problem with neteller.

-Scott

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... To be honest, this whole thing sketches me the [censored] out. I felt some heat coming, and thankfully have cashed out all my funds from neteller, party, paradise, etc. I'm not accepting the new terms and conditions... I'm not even going to log into neteller anymore period and will just send emails to have the accounts closed. I was never really a big fan of live poker and loved bonuswhoring at lower limits (.50/1 and 1/2), but I guess I'm headed to the boats for my next game because I don't want to risk any problems. With Party's recent announcement of their course of action if (when) Bush signs this horrid bill (closing US accts) and now this from Neteller, I'm terribly suspicious. If Neteller did just happen to come up with these new Terms & Conditions around the time of other recent news, then they definitely made a poor PR move. I personally doubt the VIP's words and think there are other factors involved that he chose not to mention. Plus, I've been involved with extensive bonuswhoring since before I signed up on this forum and am afraid that my Neteller transaction history could be considered somewhat fraudulant from a personal perspective. Though I have been reading the posts for a long time and not really taken the time to respond to many posts, this whole issue is a red flag for me and I, regretfully, must step away from Online gambling for a long, long time.

My intention is not to spook, but rather warn those out there who have been engaged in activity that could be considered fraudulant or such (you know who you are...) to be very careful as time goes on.

On a side note, I suspect these major poker companies that are considering to close (Party) or already have closed(Pacific, Eurobet)US customer accounts are not doing it out of the kindness of their hearts or their respect for the US government - every business move is made with an incentive, and I'm afraid these companies' reasons for their actions are simply being kept unclear to US citizens.

The optimistic message from the PPA concerning how different online poker is from other forms of gambling did not sway me too much... I hope all ends well, but this has gone far enough for me and ends officially today.

Good luck to everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

And by lower limit, I meant microlimit (don't nit-pick, I was thinkin' about the lower limits I'm now forced to play.... Freudian slip...)

scrilla
10-03-2006, 03:45 AM
Um...obviously youve never used paypal.

They steal from users all the time.

Check paypalsucks.com for info. They are owned by eBay so publicily traded obv.

Scrilla

dankhank
10-03-2006, 04:24 AM
neteller opens about 15% higher on the london exchange this morning

http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/...p;dist=dropmenu (http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/quotes.asp?symb=uk:NLR&vc=&siteid=mktw&dist=dropme nu)

keikiwai
10-03-2006, 05:19 AM
would banks cash checks from online poker site, if you choose to go around neteller and get a check saying $X from XXX POKER??? ( in the long run )

chicagoY
10-03-2006, 06:02 AM
Got the email and link too.

chicagoY
10-03-2006, 06:03 AM
I think the guys that bailed out on the stock will be sad--at least in Neteller's case.

tolbiny
10-03-2006, 06:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm. I just really have one question. Can I use my Neteller debit card after the bill is signed?

If worse comes to worse, I can drive down to Mexico and use a ATM down there to cash out.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] you... i live in Hawaii

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] you ... i live in Cleveland.

ChipWrecked
10-03-2006, 08:39 AM
[ QUOTE ]
would banks cash checks from online poker site, if you choose to go around neteller and get a check saying $X from XXX POKER??? ( in the long run )

[/ QUOTE ]

When I used to bonuswhore blackjack I took check payouts. The checks said nothing regarding what site, they were from third party funding operations. I never had any trouble except for the fees deducted for cashing international checks.

-- and the nosy teller, "You come in here with a lot of these checks..."

"I enter a lot of contests." /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Quanah Parker
10-03-2006, 08:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hmmmm. I just really have one question. Can I use my Neteller debit card after the bill is signed?

If worse comes to worse, I can drive down to Mexico and use a ATM down there to cash out.

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] you... i live in Hawaii

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] you ... i live in Cleveland.

[/ QUOTE ]

classic

dingying
10-03-2006, 05:34 PM
So as many of you, I have money in Neteller, and I want to EFT them to my bank. Now the question is whether to accept the new TOS:

-if i decline, will I be able to withdraw?
-if no, then I have to accept. any risk of my money (being involved in illeagal tranfers) before i withdraw them? I would say no, since they are not illeagal yet (Bush hasn't sign the bill yet).

what do you think?

RainDog
10-03-2006, 05:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]


It does not matter what the US gov thinks - Neteteller is not a US company and is "beyond reach" of the seig heil arm of the nazis in Washington.


AB

[/ QUOTE ]

"beyond reach" is idealistic. I don't think there's much reason to panic as of yet, but the U.S. certainly has plenty of tools through which it can influence offshore entities.

For example, It has become much harder (though not impossible) to establish an offshore account which is hidden from the eyes of the IRS. It's even more difficult to hide the money if a real crime is committed (tax evasion...pfft). This is due to the implementation of "Know Your Customer" rules by many offshore banking institutions when pressured by the U.S.

And we're not talking about Switzerland, Latvia, St. Nevis/Kitts, whatever here. Neteller is in Canada which is much closer physically and ideologically to Uncle Sam's interests.

03 Z4
10-03-2006, 09:33 PM
I was able to defer couple days ago but only choice now is Accept or Decline. Has anyone hit Decline and still be able to do transactions or only choice now is Accept if wanting to access acount?

What's the concensus on Neteller future? Stay open to US residents?

All my poker sites I played on (Sunpoker, Interpoker, Pokerplex, UKbetting, Totalbet, Will Hill) are now closed to US.

THX.

dingying
10-03-2006, 09:47 PM
same question here. I am wondering how safe will my money be at Neteller, once the bill is signed.

So, anyone have hit Decline?
anyone have hit Accept?

fusting4321
10-03-2006, 09:49 PM
If ur worried, pull it. Get it in a bank

BillytheKidd
10-03-2006, 09:52 PM
wow, thats crazy all your sites shut down already!!!

If you decline the TOS, they will close your account and cash you out. Its not a trap to keep your money.

dingying
10-03-2006, 09:57 PM
so if I accept, the chance that they trap my money (using the excuse that i accepted the TOS where they stated that they have the right to do so, since i involved in illeagal transactions) is pretty low, right?

x2ski
10-03-2006, 10:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
so if I accept, the chance that they trap my money (using the excuse that i accepted the TOS where they stated that they have the right to do so, since i involved in illeagal transactions) is pretty low, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hit Accept yesterday and an EFT hit my bank account today, as well as a withdrawal from Absolute into my Neteller account.

WTF else are we supposed to do? C'mon people, chill out.

03 Z4
10-03-2006, 10:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If ur worried, pull it. Get it in a bank

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer to "bank" thru Neteller (if there's no problem) as I can withdraw $ via ATM and not have to cash checks (no paper trail).

Khaos4k
10-03-2006, 10:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Use InstaCash to fund, get a check payout.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whats the interest on instacash? 8%?
Are there any sites that will pay this for you?

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker Stars will. Just deposit through their software and select Neteller -> InstaCash.

Ace upmy Slv
10-03-2006, 10:29 PM
The only means I currently have to move money around online, especially from PartyPoker to the site I will go with (not sure yet) when Party shuts down is Neteller. Even worse, is that I am a Maryland resident, which Neteller won't accept deposits from. I have made deposits into the account in years, only transfers from Party to Neteller to my bank account, and have had no problems with it. I currently transferred all my money to my bank account from Party and transfered just 10K to my Neteller.

Should I really be concerned with my 10K in Neteller at the moment? With the possible difficulty of getting money back online, I want to keep some online to continue playing poker. Any suggestions as to what I should do?

XxGeneralxX
10-03-2006, 10:30 PM
I currently Have money in route from Pstars to Neteller. It seems to be taking a long time (going on 3 days now). Im not too scared though because I think its because sooooo many people are prolly cashin out right now. My question is should I do an EFT after I get my money on Neteller or should I just get a check???

What r u guys doin?

XxGeneralxX
10-03-2006, 10:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The only means I currently have to move money around online, especially from PartyPoker to the site I will go with (not sure yet) when Party shuts down is Neteller. Even worse, is that I am a Maryland resident, which Neteller won't accept deposits from. I have made deposits into the account in years, only transfers from Party to Neteller to my bank account, and have had no problems with it. I currently transferred all my money to my bank account from Party and transfered just 10K to my Neteller.

Should I really be concerned with my 10K in Neteller at the moment? With the possible difficulty of getting money back online, I want to keep some online to continue playing poker. Any suggestions as to what I should do?

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If I were you I would take like 75% of that 10k, that way if you get screwed it wont be as drastic of a hit, and you still could have money to move around and play online poker like the good old days

dingying
10-03-2006, 10:38 PM
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I currently Have money in route from Pstars to Neteller. It seems to be taking a long time (going on 3 days now). Im not too scared though because I think its because sooooo many people are prolly cashin out right now. My question is should I do an EFT after I get my money on Neteller or should I just get a check???

What r u guys doin?

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what's the good of a check over an EFT?

Ace upmy Slv
10-03-2006, 10:41 PM
Yeah, but that barely gets me started playing again. I normally play 10/20 NL with a 2K buyin, so that would pretty much be my whole stack! 75% is basically what I did. I transfered 30K to my bank account and 10K to Neteller.

Any suggestions on where to keep my money online for a while that is safe until this thing shakes out? One that will also be easy to transfer back to a poker site in the future as well.

XxGeneralxX
10-03-2006, 10:43 PM
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what's the good of a check over an EFT?

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Im not that experienced on neteller. ive only made one EFT for a small sum of money and got most of my cashouts with checks str8 from stars in the past.

it was prolly a stupid question.... but thnx for answering it for me. ill do a eft right when the $ comes in

dingying
10-03-2006, 11:08 PM
what's the max amount you can EFT from Neteller every time? Just tried to EFT 7k, was told exceed maximun limit.

morgant
10-03-2006, 11:12 PM
5k

dingying
10-03-2006, 11:14 PM
daily?

dingying
10-03-2006, 11:20 PM
i recall now that someone was suggesting in another thread of dividing them into withdraws <3k. Any reason to do so?

morgant
10-03-2006, 11:24 PM
5k per eft. you can do 20 of them in a day

any reason i could think of would be a tactic aimed at deception. i dont know the ins/outs of that, i have a full time cpa to keep me out of that crap and inline with the irs

10-03-2006, 11:36 PM
First of all, I am a small time rec player that have been fortunate enough to have internet poker supplement my income.

When I opened my account at Neteller 3 years ago, I used a newly opened bank account (not my main one for obvious reasons with only $200 balance and transferred 100 to Pokerroom. I built up my bankroll and then used the profit to expand at Stars and Party.

Everytime I get my br at the sites to, say 1K, I transfer most of it to Neteller and leave just enough for my game. I cashout by transferring from Neteller to their debit card, which cost 2 bucks per transaction. I then cash out at bank ATMs that honor Star, etc for $1.85 per transaction. I consider the extra expense as cost of doing business. I NEVER used EFT to my bank account for obvious reasons. I only leave enough money at Neteller to fund my games almost on a daily basis.

With all this confusion, I now only have $200 at Neteller and about the same at Party and will leave it at that till the dust settles. If something happens to that 400 bucks I would consider it as part of doing business and won't lose sleep over it.

I checked Agree on the TOA, made a test withdrawal from Party to Neteller then to Neteller card then to ATM with no problem. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

dingying
10-04-2006, 12:06 AM
I understand better now, the obvious reason. I think it's too late to apply for a NEteller ATM card.

dingying
10-04-2006, 12:09 AM
guys, i very much want to keep in line with IRS. just a question: how do you plan to report poker income after it becomes illegal?

okietalker
10-04-2006, 12:16 AM
Just show it as "gambling winnings" on your tax form. I have always claimed my wininngs and have never been questioned as to whether or I was actually playing in a casino or home game or on the internet. It's just easier to claim it and go on than to worry about an audit 5 years down the road.

Claunchy
10-04-2006, 12:20 AM
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guys, i very much want to keep in line with IRS. just a question: how do you plan to report poker income after it becomes illegal?

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The same way I reported it when it was legal.

Two things:
1) Gambling online itself has not been criminalized. There are absolutely no criminal penalties for playing online poker.

2) Even if there were, you can't be prosecuted based on filing income taxes for income earned illegally. It's unconstitutional and stuff.

dingying
10-04-2006, 12:44 AM
thanks. that's very clear.