Arguing 'inability to make a living' to courts?????? [Archive]

View Full Version : Arguing 'inability to make a living' to courts??????

snowbank

10-02-2006, 04:37 AM

Could pros sue for inability to make a living?(note: I don't know a lot of law, but have heard they make exceptions in cases where people will not be able to make a living because of rules/laws)

jimmytrick

10-02-2006, 04:39 AM

I think Blackbeard tried this and got hung.

<shakes head>

roxtar

10-02-2006, 04:39 AM

I'm guessing that even the most open minded judge would just tell you to go get a job or play in a casino.

geormiet

10-02-2006, 04:40 AM

I don't know, but I would like to.

Our House

10-02-2006, 04:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that even the most open minded judge would just tell you to go get a job or play in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]
Serious question...

I was in the hospital two weeks ago because my back went out. I can't sit for more that 10 minutes at a time, so casinos and jobs are out. I've been playing from bed. This probably won't heal for months.

What would a judge tell me?

Ron Burgundy

10-02-2006, 04:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that even the most open minded judge would just tell you to go get a job or play in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]
Serious question...

I was in the hospital two weeks ago because my back went out. I can't sit for more that 10 minutes at a time, so casinos and jobs are out. I've been playing from bed. This probably won't heal for months.

What would a judge tell me?

[/ QUOTE ]

That you can start collecting disability checks?

Spechel EDD

10-02-2006, 04:44 AM

This will directly affect me. I use poker as a second form of income since I cant legally work in the US but yet I am a legal resident of the States. In the past I have paid taxes on winnings and everything else completely by the book. This will directly put a dent in my pockets. If anything I should be eligable to allow to argue that I would be unable to make a lving to courts.

CraigNY

10-02-2006, 04:46 AM

It's not a valid legal argument to claim that you can't make a living because the activity you want to make a living at is illegal. Otherwise, prostitution would have to be legal everywhere.

geormiet

10-02-2006, 04:47 AM

I keep meticulous records. I am a net loser at BM over 400 hours, and I make a living from online poker.

geormiet

10-02-2006, 04:48 AM

Spechel EDD

10-02-2006, 04:48 AM

Ron Burgundy

10-02-2006, 04:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It's not a valid legal argument to claim that you can't make a living because the activity you want to make a living at is illegal. Otherwise, prostitution would have to be legal everywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the difference here is that playing is not illegal (but it is in some states, so you should check on that first), it's just the financial transactions that are illegal, which would be preventing you from making a living doing a legal activity.

CraigNY

10-02-2006, 04:51 AM

That's going to be one of the biggest questions to be settled through litigation. But remember that federal law trumps state law, so just because California says it is a game of skill, doesn't mean the feds will accept that argument.

snowbank

10-02-2006, 05:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that even the most open minded judge would just tell you to go get a job or play in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think the same judge would wonder why this bill got passed.

Jooka

10-02-2006, 05:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This will directly affect me. I use poker as a second form of income since I cant legally work in the US but yet I am a legal resident of the States

[/ QUOTE ]

how does that work? serious question.

CraigNY

10-02-2006, 05:14 AM

CraigNY

10-02-2006, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that even the most open minded judge would just tell you to go get a job or play in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think the same judge would wonder why this bill got passed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. But unless the judge agrees with a litigant that there is a Constitutional reason to overturn the legislation, there's nothing he can do other than to interpret the law as written.

Spechel EDD

10-02-2006, 05:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This will directly affect me. I use poker as a second form of income since I cant legally work in the US but yet I am a legal resident of the States

[/ QUOTE ]

how does that work? serious question.

[/ QUOTE ]

My family moved here along with me back in April of 92 when I was 6 1/2 and after all these years my immigration paperwork and case is STILL not finished. My current case is eligable till November 18th, my birthday, and if it isnt completed it will be voided and I will be facing possible deportation or will have to resort to starting a new case.

So yes, the party that I have identified the most with since being here, now is going to destroy my future even more through this Bill.

CraigNY

10-02-2006, 05:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This will directly affect me. I use poker as a second form of income since I cant legally work in the US but yet I am a legal resident of the States

[/ QUOTE ]

how does that work? serious question.

[/ QUOTE ]

My family moved here along with me back in April of 92 when I was 6 1/2 and after all these years my immigration paperwork and case is STILL not finished. My current case is eligable till November 18th, my birthday, and if it isnt completed it will be voided and I will be facing possible deportation or will have to resort to starting a new case.

So yes, the party that I have identified the most with since being here, now is going to destroy my future even more through this Bill.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's an option, Vancouver is quite nice. Online gaming is quite legal there, and income from poker winnings is not taxable.

roxtar

10-02-2006, 05:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that even the most open minded judge would just tell you to go get a job or play in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think the same judge would wonder why this bill got passed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. But unless the judge agrees with a litigant that there is a Constitutional reason to overturn the legislation, there's nothing he can do other than to interpret the law as written.

[/ QUOTE ]

What really need to happen IMO is some sort of constitutional challenge to the ability of turds like Frist to attach things like this that don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed to other bills that are locks to pass.

CraigNY

10-02-2006, 05:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing that even the most open minded judge would just tell you to go get a job or play in a casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think the same judge would wonder why this bill got passed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. But unless the judge agrees with a litigant that there is a Constitutional reason to overturn the legislation, there's nothing he can do other than to interpret the law as written.

[/ QUOTE ]

What really need to happen IMO is some sort of constitutional challenge to the ability of turds like Frist to attach things like this that don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed to other bills that are locks to pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100%. Any attachment to a bill should be legally required to be germane to the subject matter of the bill. It's absurd that this happens. It is also used as a way to be able to say a political opponent "voted against" something come campaign time: a silly hypothetical example: if there's a bill to fund education, a senator may attach an unrelated rider which would make prostitution legal. When his political opponent votes the amended legislation down, ads then run saying "so and so voted AGAINST funding education". Happens all the time (without the prostitution part, but you get my drift).

Spechel EDD

10-02-2006, 05:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This will directly affect me. I use poker as a second form of income since I cant legally work in the US but yet I am a legal resident of the States

[/ QUOTE ]

how does that work? serious question.

[/ QUOTE ]

My family moved here along with me back in April of 92 when I was 6 1/2 and after all these years my immigration paperwork and case is STILL not finished. My current case is eligable till November 18th, my birthday, and if it isnt completed it will be voided and I will be facing possible deportation or will have to resort to starting a new case.

So yes, the party that I have identified the most with since being here, now is going to destroy my future even more through this Bill.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's an option, Vancouver is quite nice. Online gaming is quite legal there, and income from poker winnings is not taxable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly it wasnt even about making tons of money for me. It was about me realizing that I can and would consistently beat players at the stakes I was at and achieve a reward in the process. It was a secondary income and even a hobby I enjoyed. I love America because I still remember how awful Communist Russia was and how I never want to live in a place like that. I dont want to move to any other country and I dont want to leave it just to be able to be able to play poker elsewhere. It's a hobby where I earn a moderate income from and it will stay that way. My real goal, the goal I had before starting on poker, was to join the Marine Corp. I've always wanted to join the Marine Corp and I will plan on doing so once my eligablity for it comes through. I dont plan on joining because of any money because I know I surely will be able to make more from poker than from time I will be an enlisted grunt.

Hell I wont even care about paying taxes on my poker winnings but what I am pissed about was that I was using the majority of it to help my family with bills and supporting them financially. I can no longer even do this and I'm absolutely disgusted with how the political party that I have identified most with has morphed itself into such facsist entity, while being the minority, has such a grasp over the rest of the party.

iggymcfly

10-02-2006, 06:40 AM

Well, to be fair, it's not completely over yet. Bodog shows no signs of acquiescing to US law, and you may well be able to get some money there and play. WPEX is taking a similar line.

BlackAndRed

10-02-2006, 06:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Could pros sue for inability to make a living?(note: I don't know a lot of law, but have heard they make exceptions in cases where people will not be able to make a living because of rules/laws)

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a non-lawyer, with a major interest in law.

My answer is no. It's the same as if a drug dealer were to offer that argument.

To the point about California, it's almost sure to be irrelevant. Congress has (been given by the Court) the right to regulate pretty much any commercial activity, and have their rules override whatever states say. Witness the medical marijuana cases which went to the Supreme Court.

snowbank

10-03-2006, 12:24 AM

Anything in past court cases that relate to prohibition?

bernie

10-03-2006, 12:41 AM

snowbank

10-05-2006, 02:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think Blackbeard tried this and got hung.

<shakes head>

[/ QUOTE ]

who?

BenA

10-05-2006, 02:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think Blackbeard tried this and got hung.

<shakes head>

[/ QUOTE ]

who?

[/ QUOTE ]

Blackbeard the Pirate. The absurdity being a Pirate claiming 'inability to work' based on 'recent legislature.'

BenA

10-05-2006, 03:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What really need to happen IMO is some sort of constitutional challenge to the ability of turds like Frist to attach things like this that don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting passed to other bills that are locks to pass.

[/ QUOTE ]

For this, we need the Supreme Court. Somewhere along the line, there needs to be some serious litigation, or a serious arrest. Otherwise, the supreme court can't do nuttin' until a case is presented to it. But I agree. I personally feel this procedure violates Constitutional Process. A lot of crap has passed this way (and some good things too... the end doesn't justify the means). Its about time that laws affecting millions of American's were actually debated and VOTED upon by our elected representatives. The way this law passed was a lot more like a back alley drug transaction that what we'd expect from the people we pay taxes to.

blueodum

10-05-2006, 04:55 AM

As I gather, in most US states, there is NO CLEAR LAW against playing online poker. So play to your heart's content (unless you live in one of those states that has a clear law against it).

tangled

10-05-2006, 11:15 AM

Refering back to the original post that began this thread ("could pros sue for inability to make a living" ?): First of all, I wonder if this was intended to be a joke post. Do you really think that a court would uphold this idea, or even that any lawyer would take the case?

But lets say for the sake of argument that everything went your way in the courts --that you got an exemption from this law because of your ability to make good money at it. So what then? From who do you make money from? Obviously you make money from people who lose money. They wouldnt be eligible for the same exemption, so what good have you achieved?