Okay, so what sites have the best prospect of being around in 2 weeks [Archive]

EgoSlasher

10-02-2006, 03:21 AM

from another post:I got this e-mail from BetHoldem:

We acknowledge your most recent inquiry and provide herewith the information requested.

We are Legal and Licensed by the Antigua and Barbuda Government, you will have to check with your local gaming authorities to verify the legalities for your jurisdiction. We have no intention of banning any U.S. customer from playing on our sites.

We take this opportunity to thank you for using our service and kindly invite you to contact us should you require any further assistance.

Yours sincerely
Tashena
Poker Support
BetCorp PLC.

oreopimp

10-02-2006, 03:23 AM

ANother question:

Are they tracking US customers by IP or street addresses? (if addresses, my father lives in Germany and has a street address availible for me to use.)

metsandfinsfan

10-02-2006, 03:23 AM

i like absolute. Have not heard anything from them yet. Hope they have some balls

Leader

10-02-2006, 03:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ANother question:

Are they tracking US customers by IP or street addresses? (if addresses, my father lives in Germany and has a street address availible for me to use.)

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be able to get around both with effort.

BenKT68

10-02-2006, 04:39 AM

Not sure if gambling911 is still considered a solid source but: http://www.gambling911.com/Online-Poker-Paradise-Poker-100206.html

This is probably more stalling/indecision by sportingbet rather than a stand, imo.

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-02-2006, 04:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not sure if gambling911 is still considered a solid source but: http://www.gambling911.com/Online-Poker-Paradise-Poker-100206.html

This is probably more stalling/indecision by sportingbet rather than a stand, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can read their public statement here (http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/1/Home.stm).

There is a lot of coded langauge in there that IMO suggests that they'll stick around, in particualr the stuff about international law/WTO.

Basically, the sites that continue to offer games to US players will offer one of three excuses for doing so:

1. "Well maybe we violate US law, but US law violates international law, so [censored] 'em". (WSEX, Paradise)

2. "Poker is a game of skill and therefore not covered by this law" (UB).

3. "Hey mon it's sunny down here in Aruba! You want to deposit some money here, mon? Hope it's okay with your goverment! ROFLCOPTER. Hooray Beer!" (Absolute, Bodog)

kevin017

10-02-2006, 04:47 AM

http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...;&type=qcna (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&symbol=PRTY.L&storyI D=63109+02-Oct-2006+RTRS;&type=qcna)

LONDON, Oct 2 (Reuters) - Online gaming group Sportingbet Plc (SBT.L: Quote, Profile, Research) said on Monday it would scrap a planned merger and might stop doing business with U.S. customers after legislation was passed there aimed at preventing gambling over the Internet.

"Should Sportingbet's non-U.S. international banking partners determine that the act applied to them, then Sportingbet would no longer be able to take deposits from U.S. residents and this would have a material impact on the company's trading performance," it said in a statement.

beachbum

10-02-2006, 04:48 AM

What about FTP?

BenKT68

10-02-2006, 04:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]

You can read their public statement here (http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/1/Home.stm).

There is a lot of coded langauge in there that IMO suggests that they'll stick around, in particualr the stuff about international law/WTO.

Basically, the sites that continue to offer games to US players will offer one of three excuses for doing so:

1. "Well maybe we violate US law, but US law violates international law, so [censored] 'em". (WSEX, Paradise)

2. "Poker is a game of skill and therefore not covered by this law" (UB).

3. "Hey mon it's sunny down here in Aruba! You want to deposit some money here, mon? Hope it's okay with your goverment! ROFLCOPTER. Hooray Beer!" (Absolute, Bodog)

[/ QUOTE ]

Calming as always, Nate. How long in your opinion do reasons 1-3 work? As I understand it from the extradition thread, the non-U.K. companies will go on as usual. However, I just can't imagine that lasting long at all. (Although I hope I'm wrong)

FastForward7

10-02-2006, 04:52 AM

WSEX is the only one I've seen willing to thumb their nose at this. Come on everyone, let's go trade our rolls back and forth /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-02-2006, 04:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What about FTP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Weren't you the guy in the other thread arguing that they'd probably stick around?

dibbs

10-02-2006, 04:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What about FTP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Beach, I know you may have made promises against doing so, but any info you have with your FTP connections (when/if you get the info) would be greatly appreciated of course.

oreopimp

10-02-2006, 04:57 AM

so is Stars expected to make a statment today or are we in the dark for a while?

beachbum

10-02-2006, 04:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Weren't you the guy in the other thread arguing that they'd probably stick around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I just wondered your prognostication on them. You were spot on with 888.

Ron Burgundy

10-02-2006, 05:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So far, theres only one site I've seen come out and give a commitment to not change anything towards US players, WPEX.

If there were 10,000 Americans there in the next few months it might not be so bad.

The price is certainly right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I sure hope they upgrade their servers.

beachbum

10-02-2006, 05:00 AM

Well, several years ago because of my position of being privy to some of their private corporate info I signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement with them. Not sure if it still applies, but it makes it a bit more complicated than you suggest.

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-02-2006, 05:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You can read their public statement here (http://www.sportingbetplc.com/pages/1/Home.stm).

There is a lot of coded langauge in there that IMO suggests that they'll stick around, in particualr the stuff about international law/WTO.

Basically, the sites that continue to offer games to US players will offer one of three excuses for doing so:

1. "Well maybe we violate US law, but US law violates international law, so [censored] 'em". (WSEX, Paradise)

2. "Poker is a game of skill and therefore not covered by this law" (UB).

3. "Hey mon it's sunny down here in Aruba! You want to deposit some money here, mon? Hope it's okay with your goverment! ROFLCOPTER. Hooray Beer!" (Absolute, Bodog)

[/ QUOTE ]

Calming as always, Nate. How long in your opinion do reasons 1-3 work? As I understand it from the extradition thread, the non-U.K. companies will go on as usual. However, I just can't imagine that lasting long at all. (Although I hope I'm wrong)

[/ QUOTE ]

The new legislation basically makes it illegal under US law to accept action from US bettors. Nobody except WSEX is going to be willing to say "we know it's illegal, but we're providing the service anyway", but these are the various forms of plausible deniability that the sites that continue to provide action to US bettors are likely to take.

In practice, a great deal still depends IMO on how effective the regulations are at shutting off funding once they go into effect in ~270 days, and to some extent how aggressive the DoJ is in enforcing this new legislation.

New001

10-02-2006, 05:08 AM

I imagine this is in another thread somewhere, but what is giving WSEX so much confidence in their position?

Chrysiptera

10-02-2006, 05:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
What about FTP?

[/ QUOTE ]
No news is good news? My fingers are crossed...

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-02-2006, 05:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Weren't you the guy in the other thread arguing that they'd probably stick around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I just wondered your prognostication on them. You were spot on with 888.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your sentiment that the combination of their being privately held, poker only, and hungry for additional business makes them more likely than other places to stick around. FWIW, in order of most likely to least likely to retain US business, it looks about thusly:

WSEX
Prima
UB
Absolute
FullTilt
Pokerroom
Paradise
Stars
Crypto
Party
888

LesJ

10-02-2006, 05:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine this is in another thread somewhere, but what is giving WSEX so much confidence in their position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the answer is something like this. . .

They have been fighting these legal battles for several years and they really just don't give a [censored].

Les

Leader

10-02-2006, 05:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine this is in another thread somewhere, but what is giving WSEX so much confidence in their position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah it's around somewhere. They've made a statement that they're going to continue to accept US players. Also they've told the US government to go [censored] itself before re: sports betting.

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-02-2006, 05:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine this is in another thread somewhere, but what is giving WSEX so much confidence in their position?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, they're as close as it gets to being fugitives from the law as is, and freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose.

theBruiser500

10-02-2006, 05:14 AM

i have money on UB, should i keep it on because it will be impossible to deposit there in the future? or should i take it out because it will be impossible to take it out int he future? as of now i've hedged my bets and have a small but decent sized amount on there. i'm not asking for a definitive answer, but nate what is your feel/take on the situation?

New001

10-02-2006, 05:16 AM

Thanks guys. I /images/graemlins/heart.gif WSEX already.

Nate tha\\\' Great

10-02-2006, 05:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i have money on UB, should i keep it on because it will be impossible to deposit there in the future? or should i take it out because it will be impossible to take it out int he future? as of now i've hedged my bets and have a small but decent sized amount on there. i'm not asking for a definitive answer, but nate what is your feel/take on the situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not the person to be asking these questions, but FWIW I've hedged my bets too, leaving a decent-but-less-than-bankroll sized amount in my online accounts.

SwordFish

10-02-2006, 05:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
so is Stars expected to make a statment today or are we in the dark for a while?

[/ QUOTE ]

The final table of the WCOOP Main Event is still running.
I doubt we'll see a statement from them before the tournament is over.

SF

Leader

10-02-2006, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i have money on UB, should i keep it on because it will be impossible to deposit there in the future? or should i take it out because it will be impossible to take it out int he future? as of now i've hedged my bets and have a small but decent sized amount on there. i'm not asking for a definitive answer, but nate what is your feel/take on the situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not the person to be asking these questions, but FWIW I've hedged my bets too, leaving a decent-but-less-than-bankroll sized amount in my online accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've done this as well. Seems the logical thing.

OasisG

10-02-2006, 05:21 AM

so what is wpex or wsex?

Chrysiptera

10-02-2006, 05:25 AM

http://worldpx.com/

Their business is taking sports bets, but they started a poker room. I just created my account with them tonight; signed on and found an underwhelming 647 players online. 3 people playing at tables in my limit.. no-one playing 7stud at any limit, and 2 people playing Omaha(total)

That said, I'll be making a deposit on WSEX just as soon as I can get some money into neteller /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Chry

Synergistic Explosions

10-02-2006, 05:32 AM

I plan on playing only on WPEX for a while now. I appreciated what they had to say today. I feel my money is safe there.

I'm looking forward to seeing if I can live on 100% rakeback alone.

If the site grows with others who feel this way, who knows, maybe we'll attract the rest of the world and they'll join us also.

Things could be much worse.

wax42

10-02-2006, 05:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with your sentiment that the combination of their being privately held, poker only, and hungry for additional business makes them more likely than other places to stick around.

[/ QUOTE ]I would think that poker sites that currently have sportsbooks open to US customers would be more likely to continue to accept US customers in their poker room than poker-only sites, because the sportsbook-linked sites have already demonstrated a willingness to ignore US law, whereas the poker-only sites have not (my understanding of the Wire Act is that it forbids accepting sports bets but not poker).

RGL

10-02-2006, 05:36 AM

FYI,

WPEX is a very unique site. It has been running around 1500 - 1600 online during peak hours recently (noon - midnight). Given developments, I suspect that will change very shortly. Multi-tabling up to 4 tables allowed. Full rake-back paid for week on Mondays at 2:00 pm, with real time monitoring of rake accumulated thoughout week. All day Wednesdays and Friday - Saturday noon to noon pay a bonus if you get aces cracked which goes up as bonuses increase. At this point, limited and more aggressive but not necessarily strong player base populates the site. Limited SNG tournament action. Game histories delete other player names, so you can monitor your own play with PT but not the play of others. Server problems at times, but seems to be getting better.

See other posts in Legislative and Internet forums for more info.

oreopimp

10-02-2006, 06:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
dude stars is pulling out read other threads

[/ QUOTE ]

Lee just posted in another thread here that they have no made any desicions yet.

mrhat187

10-02-2006, 06:37 AM

WPEX/Antigua hates US government....will never close. Full tilt moved to Ireland.....Ireland hates US government....will never close. Enjoy.

aramfingal

10-02-2006, 06:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Weren't you the guy in the other thread arguing that they'd probably stick around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I just wondered your prognostication on them. You were spot on with 888.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your sentiment that the combination of their being privately held, poker only, and hungry for additional business makes them more likely than other places to stick around. FWIW, in order of most likely to least likely to retain US business, it looks about thusly:

WSEX
Prima
UB
Absolute
FullTilt
Pokerroom
Paradise
Stars
Crypto
Party
888

[/ QUOTE ]
for us in illinois and 6 other states, prima already kicked us all off last week. if they're your #2 it looks bad.

Mike Cuneo

10-02-2006, 06:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dude stars is pulling out read other threads

[/ QUOTE ]

Lee just posted in another thread here that they have no made any desicions yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes hopefully I'm wrong about this and Stars steps up! Someone take a [censored] stand!

redbeard

10-02-2006, 08:11 AM

very good question oreo are they tracking by isp or by address as most could take a trip to canada to get one.

Sand

10-02-2006, 10:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Weren't you the guy in the other thread arguing that they'd probably stick around?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I just wondered your prognostication on them. You were spot on with 888.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with your sentiment that the combination of their being privately held, poker only, and hungry for additional business makes them more likely than other places to stick around. FWIW, in order of most likely to least likely to retain US business, it looks about thusly:

WSEX
Prima
UB
Absolute
FullTilt
Pokerroom
Paradise
Stars
Crypto
Party
888

[/ QUOTE ]

TruePoker - for reason #4:

"TruePoker does NOT make or accept bets or wagers in which it has any stake in the outcome. So, our games and tournaments, and your deposits, are not covered by this UIGE Act of 2006."

GUMBY55

10-02-2006, 10:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone heard about Crypto ? (other than Interpoker denying bonuses)

SF

[/ QUOTE ]http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/WireFeedRedirect?cf=GlobeInvestor/config&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&date=20061002&arc hive=ccnm&slug=0349900001 web page (http://www.globeinvestor.com/servlet/WireFeedRedirect?cf=GlobeInvestor/config&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&date=20061002&arc hive=ccnm&slug=0349900001)

Perplexity

10-02-2006, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
3. "Hey mon it's sunny down here in Aruba! You want to deposit some money here, mon? Hope it's okay with your goverment! ROFLCOPTER. Hooray Beer!" (Absolute, Bodog)

[/ QUOTE ]

This actually made me laugh even though I'm pretty bummed today.

So thanks for that.

durkahdurkah

10-02-2006, 12:01 PM

We should probably add Bodog to the list of rooms that are not going to let this stop them from taking on US players.

Looks like this is where I'll be going back to if Stars decides to fold.

RobBizzle

10-02-2006, 12:10 PM

If stars decides to close off to US players we will have an opportunity to get our money out after the decision is made right?

mntbikr15

10-02-2006, 12:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If stars decides to close off to US players we will have an opportunity to get our money out after the decision is made right?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it will all be theirs

Art Vandalay

10-02-2006, 08:00 PM

In light of any new information that has come in this afternoon, what is the consensus on where is the best/safest place to play? WSEX? FTP? UB? What about True Poker? Their CEO has been very active on this forum all day.

dankhank

10-02-2006, 09:58 PM

http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...;&type=qcna (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&symbol=PRTY.L&storyI D=238040+02-Oct-2006+RTRS;&type=qcna)

not sure where to put this story but it seemed pretty good to me. predicts that sportingbet (paradise) will also close to u.s. customers. the real interesting stuff is on page two:

Experts said the system would not be fool-proof, but would bar the vast majority of bettors.

"I suspect some smart enterprising person out there will find a way to (get around) it. But for your average person who wants to get out there and bet on college football, you're not going to do it," said one lobbyist.

ASD99

10-02-2006, 10:00 PM

I heard absolute poker isn't going anywhere also

TruePoker CEO

10-02-2006, 10:11 PM

We will definitely be open and "around".

I was pleased to read that Professor Nelson Rose has backtracked a bit on whether the poker business model is covered. This morning he said poker was covered, now he says there are arguments the business is not covered.

TruePoker CEO

Utah

10-02-2006, 10:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/arti...;&type=qcna (http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&symbol=PRTY.L&storyI D=238040+02-Oct-2006+RTRS;&type=qcna)

not sure where to put this story but it seemed pretty good to me. predicts that sportingbet (paradise) will also close to u.s. customers. the real interesting stuff is on page two:

Experts said the system would not be fool-proof, but would bar the vast majority of bettors.

"I suspect some smart enterprising person out there will find a way to (get around) it. But for your average person who wants to get out there and bet on college football, you're not going to do it," said one lobbyist.

[/ QUOTE ]No way. It is an addicting drug and the people have tasted it. People will still flock to play. The government cant stop he gambling gene in people. Also, how many people were willing to set up and use confusing P2P software at the real risk of being sued?

Hell, back in the day there were huge growing numbers of people willing to play at mysterious sites with no guarantee they weren't being cheated. A few extra clicks to get to a legit site shouldnt cause too many problems for the casual gambler.

JOHNY CA$H

10-02-2006, 10:42 PM

It'd be a real shame is Stars goes.

JOHNY CA$H

10-02-2006, 10:45 PM

ALL OF IT.

And if you have a direct link to your bank account, they take that too.

Josh.

10-02-2006, 10:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
We will definitely be open and "around".

I was pleased to read that Professor Nelson Rose has backtracked a bit on whether the poker business model is covered. This morning he said poker was covered, now he says there are arguments the business is not covered.

[/ QUOTE ]

i know i, for one, will try out your site. you've been really the only one who fought this battle with us and i hope your site benefits from this, especially in the long term