View Full Version : Response from WSEX
mpslg
10-01-2006, 10:31 PM
Hi xxxx,
We have absolutely no plans whatsoever of dropping any players. In short, it will be business as usual. WSEX.com and all its sister companies are legal and licensed businesses regulated by the Gaming Commission of Antigua and Barbuda. We are wholly located in Antigua and do no business or run any part of our operation on US soil.
The World Trade Organization (WTO) has recognized the right of Antiguan companies to be in this business and has instructed the United States to stop trying to block US residents from playing at Antiguan operations.
Nothing in the bill criminalizes placing a bet or sending money to or receiving money from an offshore gambling business.
We strongly suggest that our players/bettors get set up with alternative payment systems (such as Neteller and First Pay).
Thanks for your enquiry xxxx. WSEX is here to stay.
Best regards,
Byron
WPX
CrazyIrishman
10-01-2006, 10:33 PM
Huzzah WSEX!
CardSharpCook
10-01-2006, 10:34 PM
this pleases me.
5thStreetHog
10-01-2006, 10:34 PM
Finally some balls
jfish
10-01-2006, 10:35 PM
wsex sounds like a solid company with its head in the right place. however, unless something drastic happens, its going to be impossible to play msnl or hsnl regularly over there.
mpslg
10-01-2006, 10:35 PM
I had a feeling WSEX would have some balls given their history and the WTO complaint.
MannyIsGod
10-01-2006, 10:36 PM
Right [censored] on. I may move some money there now simply out of princple.
Jeffage
10-01-2006, 10:37 PM
Me too. Greatly.
Jeff
Okay response and far better than the others. I think the responses from Party, Stars, Neteller, etc are insulting as I don't like being treated like as asset or revenue stream. I would like to see at least one of these jag off sites talk about protecting the players that have made their asses rich.
JuntMonkey
10-01-2006, 10:38 PM
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wsex sounds like a solid company with its head in the right place. however, unless something drastic happens, its going to be impossible to play msnl or hsnl regularly over there.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe they'll take this as an opening and nab all of Party and Paradise's customers. Viva la rivoluzione!
flair1239
10-01-2006, 10:38 PM
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Right [censored] on. I may move some money there now simply out of princple.
[/ QUOTE ]
Change the may to will. I am going to.
invisibleleadsoup
10-01-2006, 10:38 PM
can someone explain this?
none of the other sites are US companies,so what is so special about antigua?
what is the WTO complaint?
PickyTooth
10-01-2006, 10:39 PM
uhm will americans be able to deposit with neteller ?
JuntMonkey
10-01-2006, 10:39 PM
Huzzah! All 2+2'ers unite and start playing at WSEX! We will shift the money around to each other - but we will still break even because there is no rake!!!
CaseS87
10-01-2006, 10:41 PM
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Huzzah! All 2+2'ers unite and start playing at WSEX! We will shift the money around to me because 2p2ers are nits!!![/b]
[/ QUOTE ]
cking
10-01-2006, 10:41 PM
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Right [censored] on. I may move some money there now simply out of princple.
[/ QUOTE ]
mpslg
10-01-2006, 10:42 PM
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can someone explain this?
none of the other sites are US companies,so what is so special about antigua?
what is the WTO complaint?
[/ QUOTE ]
Antigua filed a complaint with the World Trade Organization (WTO) saying the U.S. is violating trade agreements by not allowing internet gambling. The WTO ruled in favor of Antigua, at least as it relates to horse racing. WTO gave the U.S. time to change its laws and the U.S. basically said [censored] you.
dibbs
10-01-2006, 10:47 PM
I find it interesting that a site that generates no rake apparently wants to say on board and assume possible risk while "sources" predict Party, who makes an absurd amount, may boot the US.
I sound like a broken record, but as Ive said to a million of these posts, just because a CS rep on a site tells you their site isnt going anywhere and everything is A-OK does not mean its true, they dont want to create a scare.
EDIT: I havent been corrected on this view but anyone who feels Im wrong obviously chime in.
Does anyone feel like explaining to me why publicly traded rooms are more likely to eject US players before non publicly traded ones? I dont get that.
Much obliged.
JPFisher55
10-01-2006, 10:49 PM
How does WSEX make money without charging a rake?
Jeffage
10-01-2006, 10:50 PM
They get traffic to their sportsbook/casino, etc.
Jeff
mpslg
10-01-2006, 10:50 PM
They make a ton of $$$$$ from their sports book. They hope you will spend some of your rakeback in the sports book.
Jeffage
10-01-2006, 10:51 PM
I certainly did today. /images/graemlins/confused.gif
Jeff
mpslg
10-01-2006, 10:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I certainly did today. /images/graemlins/confused.gif
Jeff
[/ QUOTE ]
Me too. I might actually come out a little bit ahead thanks to da Bears.
schroedy
10-01-2006, 10:55 PM
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Does anyone feel like explaining to me why publicly traded rooms are more likely to eject US players before non publicly traded ones? I dont get that.
[/ QUOTE ]
At the risk that the obvious explanation will not satisfy, the publicly traded rooms have to comply with their listing exchanges rules and regulations, most of which contain clauses about not being in violation of any material applicable laws, etc. Then certain pension fund investment guidelines may have similar restrictions. Then individual investors may be scared off by the threat of lawsuit. Then the CEOs who are not getting all of the rake but only a salary may decide that the risk of prison is not worth it. Then . . . .
FastForward7
10-01-2006, 10:55 PM
Nice, to see some stones finally. Just moved my roll there 2 days before the bill passed. I'm really starting to like these guys. Now if they could just get bit more traffic..
dibbs
10-01-2006, 10:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone feel like explaining to me why publicly traded rooms are more likely to eject US players before non publicly traded ones? I dont get that.
[/ QUOTE ]
At the risk that the obvious explanation will not satisfy, the publicly traded rooms have to comply with their listing exchanges rules and regulations, most of which contain clauses about not being in violation of any material applicable laws, etc. Then certain pension fund investment guidelines may have similar restrictions. Then individual investors may be scared off by the threat of lawsuit. Then the CEOs who are not getting all of the rake but only a salary may decide that the risk of prison is not worth it. Then . . . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks a bunch schroedy.
Megenoita
10-01-2006, 10:59 PM
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Huzzah! All 2+2'ers unite and start playing at WSEX! We will shift the money around to me because 2p2ers are nits!!![/b]
[/ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
No, the point is that if there is a site where Americans can place bets, that site can get the party fish. WSEX is a great candidate b/c of the no rake policy. This would be great.
XxGeneralxX
10-01-2006, 11:06 PM
picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
cking
10-01-2006, 11:10 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
[/ QUOTE ]
you only get a slight one?
rwesty
10-01-2006, 11:11 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a MASSIVE erection.....
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Paging WSEX GM: You have balls the size of church bells. NH Sir. Not so sure your general counsel would say the same, though.
JuntMonkey
10-01-2006, 11:17 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
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hahahaha
Jeffage
10-01-2006, 11:18 PM
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balls the size of church bells
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Nice visual.
Jeff
whangarei
10-01-2006, 11:19 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
[/ QUOTE ]
slight?
Anders
10-01-2006, 11:19 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a MASSIVE erection.....
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Thanks for the raise, Senator Frist! This would make me so happy /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Of course the chances are very low, but because the potential payoff is so high, I think that this bill is now +EV!
GAMBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
schroedy
10-01-2006, 11:19 PM
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Paging WSEX GM: You have balls the size of church bells. NH Sir. Not so sure your general counsel would say the same, though.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think the GC is on board. He had to be invovled in filing the WTO suit. These are the guys that basically forced the current administration to admit -- hey, just kidding, the WTO exists only to tell others what they must do to trade with US. We, well we do whatever the [censored] we want to here in Crawford, y'all.
[ QUOTE ]
Paging WSEX GM: You have balls the size of church bells. NH Sir. Not so sure your general counsel would say the same, though.
[/ QUOTE ]I hate general council type people. Their whole joy in life is being cautious /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Bilgefisher
10-01-2006, 11:22 PM
If you do move your money thier way, you ought to send em a letter and tell them why. A little pat on the back goes a long way sometimes.
I've been playing at WPEX since they put in no rake and have made a very good return. The two days of Aces Never Lose each week have been an extraordinary promotion. Not boosting, just sharing experience. I have also continued playing at other sites for the selection of players and tables that have been lacking at WPEX. But I have shifted more of my play their way over time.
In my opinion, the management team have shown historically and continue to show the kind of stand-up-for-the-game attitude that has been so lacking in other industry leaders. They were among the earliest pioneers of internet betting and were one of the first targets of U.S. govenment action. (See the excellent Card Player Magazine article). They are committed to the industry and to the freedom of U.S. players to participate in it and have put themselves repeatedly on the line to insure these outcomes, including putting pressure on bigger sites to modify their rakes and promotional policies.
I, for one, say thank you for a real quality player in our shared undertakings.
mpslg
10-01-2006, 11:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I've been playing at WPEX since they put in no rake and have made a very good return. The two days of Aces Never Lose each week have been an extraordinary promotion. Not boosting, just sharing experience. I have also continued playing at other sites for the selection of players and tables that have been lacking at WPEX. But I have shifted more of my play their way over time.
In my opinion, the management team have shown historically and continue to show the kind of stand-up-for-the-game attitude that has been so lacking in other industry leaders. They were among the earliest pioneers of internet betting and were one of the first targets of U.S. govenment action. (See the excellent Card Player Magazine article). They are committed to the industry and to the freedom of U.S. players to participate in it and have put themselves repeatedly on the line to insure these outcomes, including putting pressure on bigger sites to modify their rakes and promotional policies.
I, for one, say thank you for a real quality player in our shared undertakings.
[/ QUOTE ]
I couldn't agree more.
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
[/ QUOTE ]
SPROING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Megenoita
10-01-2006, 11:49 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
[/ QUOTE ]
SPROING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The most I get a month from Party is 25%...imagine 100%. I think we should all help advertise so the fish flock there (if this all goes down where Party, etc. shut down).
Sephus
10-01-2006, 11:51 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
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SPROING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
The most I get a month from Party is 25%...imagine 100%. I think we should all help advertise so the fish flock there (if this all goes down where Party, etc. shut down).
[/ QUOTE ]
if it does, online pros should get together and pay them to advertise on american TV.
Peter666
10-01-2006, 11:55 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
[/ QUOTE ]
SPROING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
The most I get a month from Party is 25%...imagine 100%. I think we should all help advertise so the fish flock there (if this all goes down where Party, etc. shut down).
[/ QUOTE ]
That indeed would be a silver lining in the cloud. Destroying the monopoly that is Party Poker may be better for the long term. It's up to the innovative and daring small companies to find ways to circumvent this legal mess and profit.
Here is a link the the Card Player Magazine article about WPEX, it's management, the WTO case and their battle to have U.S. players continue to participate in the industry. They have been pioneers, innovators and advocates throughout their history, so no surprise that they are laying it on the line now.
http://www.cardplayer.com/magazine/article/15446
Jussurreal
10-02-2006, 12:30 PM
I just can't understand for the life of me why they would advise Americans to get set up with Neteller when the act is going stop payments to and from Neteller?
bobbyi
10-02-2006, 12:40 PM
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I just can't understand for the life of me why they would advise Americans to get set up with Neteller when the act is going stop payments to and from Neteller?
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you think they should advise people to get money online?
Jussurreal
10-02-2006, 01:08 PM
I don't know. My point was.....they made it sound like neteller was the solution to the problem when in fact it is the target of the legislation.
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I just can't understand for the life of me why they would advise Americans to get set up with Neteller when the act is going stop payments to and from Neteller?
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How do you think they should advise people to get money online?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cash/carrier pigeons? PWNED!!!!!!!!
DING-DONG YO
10-02-2006, 01:14 PM
WSEX GM, can you confirm that the email the OP received from WSEX CS accurately reflects WSEX's position on this legislation?
I would like to hear it from the horse's mouth.
cbloom
10-02-2006, 01:19 PM
Maybe we can just mail them an envelope full of cash.
JOHNY CA$H
10-02-2006, 01:19 PM
Something drastic DID happen. This could cause an influx of U.S players.
breaktwister
10-02-2006, 01:19 PM
The new act does nothing to stop payments to and from Neteller. Where do you people get this information?
This is discussed on numerous other threads on this forum.
DOMIT
10-02-2006, 01:23 PM
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picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
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slight?
[/ QUOTE ]
You guys seriously need to get out more /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Jussurreal
10-02-2006, 01:23 PM
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I just can't understand for the life of me why they would advise Americans to get set up with Neteller when the act is going stop payments to and from Neteller?
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you think they should advise people to get money online?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cash/carrier pigeons? PWNED!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. My comment makes total sense. WHY WOULD WSEX TELL PEOPLE TO SWITCH TO NETELLER WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS ABOUT TO SIGN LEGISLATION MAKING NETELLER TRANSACTIONS ILLEGAL (to your local bank)?!?!?!? ZZZZIIIIIINNNNGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!
recondite7
10-02-2006, 01:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
picture WPEX with the traffic of party/stars with no rake. doesnt it give you a slight erection.....
[/ QUOTE ]
http://files.myopera.com/jobothan/albums/15970/Beavis.gif
boing-oingoingoingoing
Anders
10-02-2006, 01:32 PM
I just spoke to a WPEX cs rep who:
1) Confirmed that WPEX intends to stay open to US customers for the forseeable future.
2) Said that WPEX will be doing "a lot more advertising" in an attempt to pick up market share, and
3)said that the outlook is good for the WTO case.
Nate tha\\\' Great
10-02-2006, 01:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
2) Said that WPEX will be doing "a lot more advertising" in an attempt to pick up market share, and
[/ QUOTE ]
This is actually one of the better things we've heard (if true).
Victor
10-02-2006, 01:37 PM
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I just can't understand for the life of me why they would advise Americans to get set up with Neteller when the act is going stop payments to and from Neteller?
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you think they should advise people to get money online?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cash/carrier pigeons? PWNED!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. My comment makes total sense. WHY WOULD WSEX TELL PEOPLE TO SWITCH TO NETELLER WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS ABOUT TO SIGN LEGISLATION MAKING NETELLER TRANSACTIONS ILLEGAL (to your local bank)?!?!?!? ZZZZIIIIIINNNNGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
can someone with a clue confirm this? from my reading and understanding, i didnt think that neteller transactions would be blocked?
Losing all
10-02-2006, 01:40 PM
I wonder what their rake will look like if they ever do take off. That said, I think this will be my new home.
Nate tha\\\' Great
10-02-2006, 01:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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I just can't understand for the life of me why they would advise Americans to get set up with Neteller when the act is going stop payments to and from Neteller?
[/ QUOTE ]
How do you think they should advise people to get money online?
[/ QUOTE ]
Cash/carrier pigeons? PWNED!!!!!!!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Not really. My comment makes total sense. WHY WOULD WSEX TELL PEOPLE TO SWITCH TO NETELLER WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS ABOUT TO SIGN LEGISLATION MAKING NETELLER TRANSACTIONS ILLEGAL (to your local bank)?!?!?!? ZZZZIIIIIINNNNGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!
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can someone with a clue confirm this? from my reading and understanding, i didnt think that neteller transactions would be blocked?
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It is not clear whether the regulations apply to Neteller or not and this will not be clear for another ~270 days. The legal opinion we've seen on this matter is actually somewhat optimistic so far, but OTOH that might not matter if Neteller or the US banks decide to enforce this voluntarily.
The sites that have closed so far are reacting to the provision that criminalizes the behavior of accepting a wager from a US citizen, which goes into effect immedaitely upon Preisdent Bush's signing of the law.
Suigin406
10-02-2006, 01:57 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
balls the size of church bells
[/ QUOTE ]
Nice visual.
Jeff
[/ QUOTE ]
odd visual...
Jussurreal
10-02-2006, 02:26 PM
Nate wrote..."The sites that have closed so far are reacting to the provision that criminalizes the behavior of accepting a wager from a US citizen, which goes into effect immedaitely upon Preisdent Bush's signing of the law."
Nate,
From what I have been reading the legislation does not criminalize actual betting, just the transfer of money. Can you clarify where you got that information?
iRockhoes1
10-02-2006, 02:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That indeed would be a silver lining in the cloud. Destroying the monopoly that is Party Poker may be better for the long term. It's up to the innovative and daring small companies to find ways to circumvent this legal mess and profit.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is would be awful for this in the long run. Anytime you take an industry with multiple players in it that is basically self-regulating itself and remove all but 1 or 2 companies, the chance of a monopoly is much greater. Party did not have a monopoly, as Full Tilt, Stars, and others were keeping them in check.Without anyone to provide a check and balance system with the one company that is able to provide a service in an unregulated market, the market would move toward a monopoly no matter how benevolent the owners of the company were. It would be like if anti-trust laws were never enforced in the US...microsoft would own us all (which it probably still does but you see my point).
chicagoY
10-02-2006, 07:14 PM
Hurrah WSEX!
Hurrah Antigua!
jonderry
10-02-2006, 07:22 PM
You guys are naive if you think wpex is going to remain rake-free. I would conjecture that their business model is as follows. Once the poker site takes off a bit, they will start giving their 100% rakeback in the form of vouchers for sports betting, which is really more like 90% rakeback. Later, I suspect they may even decrease it significantly from 100%. It is ridiculous to suggest they would forgo billions of dollars in rake revenue if it were available to them. To me, the fact that they are making their site rake-free by doing weekly rakeback payments instead of truly zero rake per hand means they are already conditioning their players to having rake temporarily taken from the pot so it will seem less drastic later when you don't get cash back, but sports betting vouchers instead. With this new legislation, I predict this change in rakeback will happen within a year or so.
DuderinoAB
10-02-2006, 07:24 PM
No one will play there if they start keeping rake. Then they will not draw people to their sportsbook which is the whole point of the rakefree thing.
PurpleLight
10-02-2006, 07:28 PM
Dear WSEX GM
I'd just like to request that in the event that you gain a large portion of the US poker population that you please, for the love of all things, make your software FAST (Think UB Fast) and your tables resizable. Support for functions like the betpot script would also be really sweet.
Why would anyone play on a site as ugly and bulky as WPEX without some sort of massive incentive?
Ron Burgundy
10-02-2006, 07:38 PM
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Why would anyone play on a site as ugly and bulky as WPEX without some sort of massive incentive?
[/ QUOTE ]
Ever heard of Pacific?
vabogee
10-02-2006, 07:42 PM
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Why would anyone play on a site as ugly and bulky as WPEX without some sort of massive incentive?
[/ QUOTE ]
what better incentive is there than zero rake? -3% rake? i guess if a site agreed to add money to every pot, that would be better.
CallYNotRaise06
10-02-2006, 07:48 PM
this changed my day from really depressing to slightly not as depressing. yessss
keikiwai
10-02-2006, 07:49 PM
so, full tilt or wsex?
one of the reasons i like ftp, is that you can actually play msnl there..... but i'll be keeping my eye on the traffic at wsex
This is the email I got. Looks like we have a good company. They charge no rake AND they actually care about our rights and our lifestyles. If they and Neteller stick this one out, they've certainly won one loyal customer.
(Notice that a couple key phrases are the same in this email and the one to OP. That's a GOOD sign. It means they have formulated a company policy that, even in a possible embryonic stage, is consistent.)
Hi Ben,
WSEX has always and will continue to fight for the player's right to spend their gambling dollars as they see fit, not just on US state sanctioned lotteries or other outlets where the US government gets a piece of the action.
Yes, Ben. It will most certainly be "business as usual". Nothing in the bill criminalizes placing a bet or sending money to or receiving money from an offshore gambling business.
We strongly suggest that all of our players set up accounts with alternate payment systems - such as Neteller and Fire Pay - and use them exclusively from now on. Thanks Ben.
Best regards,
(name deleted)
WPX
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone play on a site as ugly and bulky as WPEX without some sort of massive incentive?
[/ QUOTE ]
what better incentive is there than zero rake? -3% rake? i guess if a site agreed to add money to every pot, that would be better.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you play tight agressive, you actually DO get this deal. At a ring game, let's say 100$ total is taken from the whole table in an hour. You get exactly 10$, because they divide ALL the rake by 10. (MGR=mean generated rake). In other words, if you are not one of those psycho laggys or maniacs, their excessive action when you have already folding PF makes you money, since you probably didn't personally pay 10$ because your VPIP and WTS % will be lower. I don't think the fish know this at all. But we do. WPX rocks.
xJames2112
10-03-2006, 02:10 AM
I am strongly considering making this my home. We'll see what happends
pokerfoos
10-03-2006, 11:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why would anyone play on a site as ugly and bulky as WPEX without some sort of massive incentive?
[/ QUOTE ]
Do what I did:
Take the sound and image files from Paradise Poker, and copy them to the appropriate directory under WorldPX. Rename the files so that the paradise files are now used. I have copied the cards, the table background, the name-plate ovals, and all of the sounds. Makes for a much better experience.
mpslg
10-03-2006, 12:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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Why would anyone play on a site as ugly and bulky as WPEX without some sort of massive incentive?
[/ QUOTE ]
what better incentive is there than zero rake? -3% rake? i guess if a site agreed to add money to every pot, that would be better.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you play tight agressive, you actually DO get this deal. At a ring game, let's say 100$ total is taken from the whole table in an hour. You get exactly 10$, because they divide ALL the rake by 10. (MGR=mean generated rake). In other words, if you are not one of those psycho laggys or maniacs, their excessive action when you have already folding PF makes you money, since you probably didn't personally pay 10$ because your VPIP and WTS % will be lower. I don't think the fish know this at all. But we do. WPX rocks.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree 100%. The rakeback I receive each week from WPEX is always more than the rake listed in Pokertracker. I play tight aggressive and I am a winning player before rakeback.
S0meGuy
10-03-2006, 12:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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balls the size of church bells
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Nice visual.
Jeff
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odd visual...
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I call it disturbing...
not cool man, not cool. Please don't post something like this again, here, inline. -P
KaiShin
10-03-2006, 01:14 PM
Aaaaaaand thread over.
RacersEdge
10-04-2006, 01:51 PM
Cool to see these guys making a stand. It's funny because I had na account with them long before I ever started playing poker. Probably started an account there in like 1998 for sports betting. I have never played poker there thinking the crowd would be too hardcore. I didn't know it was rake-free though.
The guys who strated it were stock traders from CA (I think) who were always doing office pools on sports betting and decided to just start a company in Antigua. They were on 60 Minutes a few years ago, and they were afraid to go back to the US fearing the possibility of imprisonment. I wonder if the WTO case changed that for them.
I'll have to look into playing poker with them now.\\
whitepotatoe
10-04-2006, 03:28 PM
I am going to have to check this out. Withdrawal from Party has to go somewhere. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
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