Performify
10-01-2006, 10:15 PM
If you have suggestions for changes or additions to this thread, please post here (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7501305)
First: read the other stickied posts, especially the Official Statements from various poker sites (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7509074) as well as the latest Update thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7491570). Read the "Legislation Forum Welcome" for guidelines and rules for posting in this forum.
Second: a lot of this is difficult due to the high level of uncertainty swirling around the new law's implementation. A lot depends on 1) Regulation specifics 2) Reaction from banks and poker sites 3) Litigation.
So questions like "what will happen to this poker site?" or "is my money safe?" are really just speculation at this point.
This is an attempt to try to elminate some of the constant rehashing of the same speculative questions and answers over and over again. Additionally we're trying to provide a resource for people to see all the "important" information in one place.
Big thanks to BluffTHIS! who put together a great deal of the following information.
<font color="blue">Section One: Most Frequently Rehashed Questions</font>
Note that repeated threads asking questions clearly answered here will be locked and/or deleted
Should I pull my money out of {site}? Is my money safe? Etc...
<ul type="square"> Any answer is purely speculative at this point. Most people agree that there's almost zero chance any of the reputable sites, especially those publicly traded (Party) will attempt to run off with anyone's money. Confiscating money from the American public certainly isn't what this legislation is about
[/list]
OMG the sky is falling, waaah waaah? {random ranting, screaming, crying}
<ul type="square"> Post in the Official Rant, Scream, Cry, etc. Thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7509349&an=0&page=0#Post 7509349).
[/list]
When is the bill expected to be signed?
<ul type="square"> According to Jay Bailey at the National Right for Online Gaming, the Safe Ports Act (H.R. 4954), which contains the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, is expected to be signed into law by President Bush on Friday, October 13th.
See this thread for discussion: Safe Port Act Signing October 13th (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7551652)
[/list]
Check out this article!
<ul type="square"> Please make sure your article wasn't already posted. See this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7534232)
[/list]
What's up with these new Neteller terms of service?
<ul type="square"> See this thread: Neteller up. New Terms of Service (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7506759)
[/list]
What about affiliates?
<ul type="square"> Party poker released the following statement: Party's announcement RE: Affiliates (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7523324)
Cliff notes: "(Party) no longer recognize US customers as Real Money Players for our gambling services. This means that with immediate effect, there will be no Per Sign Up Plan revenues accrued for new players from the United States. ...There are no new restrictions that prevent Affiliates based in the US from promoting PartyGaming brands to non-US players. "
[/list]
<font color="red">NEW:</font> Where is the official statement from 2+2?
<ul type="square"> See the Where's Our Statement (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7548675) thread from Mason Malmuth
[/list]
<font color="red">NEW:</font> Did David Sklansky post anything on the topic?
<ul type="square"> Yes, see the following threads:
Shouldn't We Be Focusing On The Poker Carve Out? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7554782)
My Opinion About The Signifigance of Party's Decision (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7554173)
How Many Senators Would Have Voted Otherwise? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7552828)
[/list]
<font color="red">NEW:</font> What's next and how can we make a difference?
<ul type="square"> There's no easy answer, but check out this excellent thread with the same title (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7543394) from your most excellent moderator Berge20.
[/list]
<font color="blue">Section Two: About the Legislation</font>
What's the latest from the PPA?
<ul type="square"> PPA President responds (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7506896&Search page=1&Main=7493720&Words=+PPA+President&topic=&Se arch=true#Post7506896) in the thread Poker Carve-out in the Lame Duck session (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7506896)
[/list]
What are the best threads with information on the legislation?
<ul type="square"> The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 Analyzed (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7508486) a breakdown by a famous law professor
Nate's thread with link to text of bill (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7481406&page=0 &fpart=1)
Our insider Mr. K analyzes the bill by answering questions on it (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7483436&an=0&page=0#Post 7483436)
JC's breakdown of the bill (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486722&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Thread with link to Wynton's previous analysis (pre-bill) of potential legislation (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486307&an=0&page=1#Post 7486307)
Hock's quick summary (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7482022&page=2 &fpart=1)
Should I panic and cashout now? (Hock says no) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486696&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]
What about IP blocking?
<ul type="square"> Hock's analysis (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486798&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]
What's the deal with the Antigua WTO case?
<ul type="square"> About the WTO case (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7503990).
[/list]
<font color="blue">Section Three: Speculation about workarounds and exceptions</font>
What are the best threads about potential workarounds?
<ul type="square"> Is Western Union A Loophole? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7488881&an=0&page=1#Post 7488881)
Nate's Useless Predictions Thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493312&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Wynton's historical oddity of the state exemption thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7489540&an=0&page=0#Post 7489540)
Bluff's "Throw a 'Hail Mary'" Thread regarding working for a poker exception to the new law (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493720&an=0&page=0#Post 7493720)
[/list]
Hey! I found a loophole! (really isn't and has to do with rights of states or with why poker really is covered)
<ul type="square"> Austiger's thread with Mr. K's response (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486349&an=0&page=1#Post 7486349)
Can states operate/license online poker rooms (yes with restrictions) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7485364&an=0&page=1#Post 7485364)
kslghost's thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7485805&an=0&page=1#Post 7485805)
[/list]
Speculation about potential workarounds for us to keep depositing and playing
<ul type="square"> Bluff's phone card thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7484084&an=0&page=2#Post 7484084)
Bluff's workarounds/loopholes for poker sites (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7485602&page=1 &fpart=1)
Horse racing loophole? (not) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486902&an=0&page=0#Post 7486902)
Fantasy sports loophole? (not - zoo thread) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7483930&an=0&page=0#Post 7483930)
samo's thread about foreign banks (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486330&Main=7482688#Pos t7486330)
samo's is it really this simple to get around it thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7487443&an=0&page=0#Post 7487443)
[/list]
How will pheripheral businesses be affected?
<ul type="square">
Software providers like PAHUD (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486793&an=0&page=1#Post 7486793)
Affiliates (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486337&an=0&page=1#Post 7486337)
[/list]
Legalizing poker in the future
<ul type="square">
Bluff's PPA thread and advice for them to start a state by state campaign (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7485691&an=0&page=1#Post 7485691)
Drew's lessons learned thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486550&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Italy legalized it after banning it - why can't we? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486912&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]
Miscellaneous
<ul type="square"> WTO issue (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7484864&an=0&page=0#Post 7484864)
Does this affect canadian/foreign players? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7484235&an=0&page=2#Post 7484235)
Does the bill affect foreign citizens #2 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486480&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Japanese pachinko style? (humorous) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7482620&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]
First: read the other stickied posts, especially the Official Statements from various poker sites (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7509074) as well as the latest Update thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7491570). Read the "Legislation Forum Welcome" for guidelines and rules for posting in this forum.
Second: a lot of this is difficult due to the high level of uncertainty swirling around the new law's implementation. A lot depends on 1) Regulation specifics 2) Reaction from banks and poker sites 3) Litigation.
So questions like "what will happen to this poker site?" or "is my money safe?" are really just speculation at this point.
This is an attempt to try to elminate some of the constant rehashing of the same speculative questions and answers over and over again. Additionally we're trying to provide a resource for people to see all the "important" information in one place.
Big thanks to BluffTHIS! who put together a great deal of the following information.
<font color="blue">Section One: Most Frequently Rehashed Questions</font>
Note that repeated threads asking questions clearly answered here will be locked and/or deleted
Should I pull my money out of {site}? Is my money safe? Etc...
<ul type="square"> Any answer is purely speculative at this point. Most people agree that there's almost zero chance any of the reputable sites, especially those publicly traded (Party) will attempt to run off with anyone's money. Confiscating money from the American public certainly isn't what this legislation is about
[/list]
OMG the sky is falling, waaah waaah? {random ranting, screaming, crying}
<ul type="square"> Post in the Official Rant, Scream, Cry, etc. Thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7509349&an=0&page=0#Post 7509349).
[/list]
When is the bill expected to be signed?
<ul type="square"> According to Jay Bailey at the National Right for Online Gaming, the Safe Ports Act (H.R. 4954), which contains the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, is expected to be signed into law by President Bush on Friday, October 13th.
See this thread for discussion: Safe Port Act Signing October 13th (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7551652)
[/list]
Check out this article!
<ul type="square"> Please make sure your article wasn't already posted. See this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7534232)
[/list]
What's up with these new Neteller terms of service?
<ul type="square"> See this thread: Neteller up. New Terms of Service (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7506759)
[/list]
What about affiliates?
<ul type="square"> Party poker released the following statement: Party's announcement RE: Affiliates (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7523324)
Cliff notes: "(Party) no longer recognize US customers as Real Money Players for our gambling services. This means that with immediate effect, there will be no Per Sign Up Plan revenues accrued for new players from the United States. ...There are no new restrictions that prevent Affiliates based in the US from promoting PartyGaming brands to non-US players. "
[/list]
<font color="red">NEW:</font> Where is the official statement from 2+2?
<ul type="square"> See the Where's Our Statement (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7548675) thread from Mason Malmuth
[/list]
<font color="red">NEW:</font> Did David Sklansky post anything on the topic?
<ul type="square"> Yes, see the following threads:
Shouldn't We Be Focusing On The Poker Carve Out? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7554782)
My Opinion About The Signifigance of Party's Decision (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7554173)
How Many Senators Would Have Voted Otherwise? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7552828)
[/list]
<font color="red">NEW:</font> What's next and how can we make a difference?
<ul type="square"> There's no easy answer, but check out this excellent thread with the same title (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7543394) from your most excellent moderator Berge20.
[/list]
<font color="blue">Section Two: About the Legislation</font>
What's the latest from the PPA?
<ul type="square"> PPA President responds (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7506896&Search page=1&Main=7493720&Words=+PPA+President&topic=&Se arch=true#Post7506896) in the thread Poker Carve-out in the Lame Duck session (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7506896)
[/list]
What are the best threads with information on the legislation?
<ul type="square"> The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 Analyzed (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7508486) a breakdown by a famous law professor
Nate's thread with link to text of bill (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7481406&page=0 &fpart=1)
Our insider Mr. K analyzes the bill by answering questions on it (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7483436&an=0&page=0#Post 7483436)
JC's breakdown of the bill (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486722&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Thread with link to Wynton's previous analysis (pre-bill) of potential legislation (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486307&an=0&page=1#Post 7486307)
Hock's quick summary (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7482022&page=2 &fpart=1)
Should I panic and cashout now? (Hock says no) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486696&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]
What about IP blocking?
<ul type="square"> Hock's analysis (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486798&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]
What's the deal with the Antigua WTO case?
<ul type="square"> About the WTO case (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7503990).
[/list]
<font color="blue">Section Three: Speculation about workarounds and exceptions</font>
What are the best threads about potential workarounds?
<ul type="square"> Is Western Union A Loophole? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7488881&an=0&page=1#Post 7488881)
Nate's Useless Predictions Thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493312&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Wynton's historical oddity of the state exemption thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7489540&an=0&page=0#Post 7489540)
Bluff's "Throw a 'Hail Mary'" Thread regarding working for a poker exception to the new law (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7493720&an=0&page=0#Post 7493720)
[/list]
Hey! I found a loophole! (really isn't and has to do with rights of states or with why poker really is covered)
<ul type="square"> Austiger's thread with Mr. K's response (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486349&an=0&page=1#Post 7486349)
Can states operate/license online poker rooms (yes with restrictions) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7485364&an=0&page=1#Post 7485364)
kslghost's thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7485805&an=0&page=1#Post 7485805)
[/list]
Speculation about potential workarounds for us to keep depositing and playing
<ul type="square"> Bluff's phone card thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7484084&an=0&page=2#Post 7484084)
Bluff's workarounds/loopholes for poker sites (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7485602&page=1 &fpart=1)
Horse racing loophole? (not) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486902&an=0&page=0#Post 7486902)
Fantasy sports loophole? (not - zoo thread) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7483930&an=0&page=0#Post 7483930)
samo's thread about foreign banks (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486330&Main=7482688#Pos t7486330)
samo's is it really this simple to get around it thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7487443&an=0&page=0#Post 7487443)
[/list]
How will pheripheral businesses be affected?
<ul type="square">
Software providers like PAHUD (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486793&an=0&page=1#Post 7486793)
Affiliates (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486337&an=0&page=1#Post 7486337)
[/list]
Legalizing poker in the future
<ul type="square">
Bluff's PPA thread and advice for them to start a state by state campaign (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7485691&an=0&page=1#Post 7485691)
Drew's lessons learned thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486550&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Italy legalized it after banning it - why can't we? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486912&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]
Miscellaneous
<ul type="square"> WTO issue (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7484864&an=0&page=0#Post 7484864)
Does this affect canadian/foreign players? (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7484235&an=0&page=2#Post 7484235)
Does the bill affect foreign citizens #2 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7486480&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
Japanese pachinko style? (humorous) (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7482620&an=0&page=0&gone w=1#UNREAD)
[/list]