View Full Version : Ultimate Bet, Absolute, Stars responses (from another thread)
AJFenix
10-01-2006, 05:17 PM
The UltimateBet, AbsolutePoker and PokerStars responses to Port Security Bill... No surprises but still interesting...
ULTIMATEBET
Dear , We understand your concern about the new United States gambling law. We first want to clarify that UltimateBet has offered its poker room since 2001, and is not located in the United States. UltimateBet is not going away as a result of this legislation.
Here at UltimateBet.com the management of player funds is held to the highest standard of a public company. 100% of player funds are deposited in a segregated account, at a top tier bank, the Royal Bank of Scotland in the United Kingdom.
You can be assured that your funds are completely safe and secure and that you are welcome to play with or withdraw your funds at anytime as usual. The new law does not change the legality of playing online games.
The law does not impact people who play games from their computers. Instead, the law focuses on the payment processing of unlawful Internet gaming. Our strong belief is that poker is a game of skill and therefore is not encompassed by this law. As set forth in the user agreement, we furnish a gaming environment, and participants are eligible to access this environment for their enjoyment where legal to do so.
We do not undertake to assess the legality of play in any particular case as our users may access us from around the world. We hope you continue to enjoy playing at Ultimatebet.comPlease let us know if you have any further questions.
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ABSOLUTE
Thank you for your email. Absolute Poker offers its services throughout the world and the laws governing gambling vary widely from nation to nation, and are always subject to change.
This is true even within the United States, where the laws governing gambling vary from state to state, and are subject to frequent change within each state, as well as on the federal front.
Absolute Poker has no practical way to determine what is legal in any particular location at any particular time, so it is the customer's responsibility to determine that the betting activity is in full compliance with the laws applicable in the location where the wager is placed or from where the player is located depending on applicable laws. Thanks for playing at Absolute Poker!
If there is anything else we can help you with, please let us know. We're here for you!
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STARS
Hello,
We appreciate and share your concerns about the bill which passed in the US Congress today regarding the funding of internet gaming, as an attachment to a Port Security bill. PokerStars' management and legal team are examining the bill at this time.
Until we understand the potential impact of the bill, we cannot comment on how it will impact our players or PokerStars. Please note that the bill includes a 270-day window for enforcement procedures to be established, so we do not expect to see any immediate changes in the ability to transfer funds to and from PokerStars. Also please remember that your money is safe on PokerStars.
All player funds are in a segregated account at the Royal Bank of Scotland. As always, we thank you for playing on PokerStars.
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Our strong belief is that poker is a game of skill and therefore is not encompassed by this law
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What about blackjack?
DrewOnTilt
10-01-2006, 06:03 PM
As much as I like seeing positive and optimistic news, this really doesn't mean anything. Of course the online cardrooms are going to tell everyone not to worry, and that nothing has changed. They don't want to create widespread panic and pandemonium a la the bonus whoring and sudden cashout run that killed off Integrity Casinos a few years ago.
dibbs
10-01-2006, 06:06 PM
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As much as I like seeing positive and optimistic news, this really doesn't mean anything. Of course the online cardrooms are going to tell everyone not to worry, and that nothing has changed. They don't want to create widespread panic and pandemonium a la the bonus whoring and sudden cashout run that killed off Integrity Casinos a few years ago.
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Exactly, even if they had near rock solid plans to totally shut down in like 60 days, I think theyd send this response out anyways at this point.
That being said, I doubt most sites are gonna go down without trying a few ways to get around the legislation, too much money at stake.
Honestly, this is very comforting to me. Maybe I am having illusions of grandur but
Here are the main points I got from Absolute and UB:
We don't care what the US says, we feel safe and are not scared of being extradited or prosecuted. Also keep in mind that the US law does not affect poker players, so have a good time.
From Stars:
"Please note that the bill includes a 270-day window for enforcement procedures to be established, so we do not expect to see any immediate changes in the ability to transfer funds to and from PokerStars. "
I doubt the would put this in if they didn't beleive it. I think they just would have omited this paragraph if effective Dday was coming in a week.
Any lawyers/people smarter than me want to comment?
The Absolute response is really a stupid one. Yeah, we don't care, we have no idea if they would put you in prison for playing at our site. What a stupid site, they don't deserve our rake. They should probably be paying some money to UltimateBet and copy their response.
I'm telling you one thing - with a response like that, there exist some players who quit online poker and wouldn't quit if they received the UltimateBet response. /images/graemlins/mad.gif
Lizard King
10-01-2006, 06:33 PM
Poker sites will be the last to comly with regulations. They stand to lose most of their profit while gaining nothing. I wouldn't worry about poker sites. Only banks will have something to lose by not complying. I think that we have somewhere between 90 and 270 days untill the banks start making our life difficult.
xxThe_Lebowskixx
10-01-2006, 06:43 PM
lizard,
really interesting observations.
shawny boy
10-01-2006, 10:40 PM
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9070-2384407,00.html
Gambling online faces collapse in US after Senate ban
By Dominic Walsh
AMERICA’s $6 billion (£3.2 billion) internet gambling industry is facing meltdown after the US Senate pushed through a Bill at the weekend outlawing the processing of bets by banks and credit companies.
The surprise move, which is expected to spark a massive share sell-off, will prompt London-listed 888 Holdings to announce this morning that it is halting its entire US-facing operation, accounting for half its business.
PartyGaming, the world’s biggest internet gambling company, said last night that it was “still evaluating the situation”, although industry sources believe it will also announce a cessation of its services to American punters.
However Sportingbet, which was celebrating on Friday after a New York court released its former chairman, who had been facing gambling charges, will tell investors that it is still digesting the implications of the Bill.
Despite the Bill’s prescriptive nature, it excludes local online betting on horseracing, fantasy leagues and lotteries. It also has no impact on the hundreds of casinos and gambling emporia that dot America, ranging from the neon palaces of Las Vegas and Atlantic City to the riverboat casinos that ply their trade on the Mississippi.
One senior internet gambling executive said last night: “This is the worst form of protectionism I have ever seen. This will drive internet gambling underground and consumer protection will go out of the window. The religious groups that lobbied for this may live to regret it.”
The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Bill needs only to be signed by President Bush to become law. Legal sources predict that he will do so in the next two weeks, possibly as early as Wednesday.
The passing of the Bill in the early hours of Saturday surprised the industry. Although it had successfully negotiated Congress, its passage through the Senate looked likely to be blocked through lack of parliamentary time.
However, Bill Frist, the Republican leader in the Senate, got the measure through by attaching it to an unrelated Bill that enhances port security.
“Gambling is a serious addiction that undermines the family, dashes dreams and frays the fabric of society,” Dr Frist said. “The bottom line is simple: internet gambling is illegal. Although we can’t monitor every online gambler or regulate offshore gambling, we can police the financial institutions that disregard our laws.”
The ban may drive some small companies out of business, although big operators such as 888 and PartyGaming will highlight the strong prospects of their non-US business.
However, 888 is expected to warn its shareholders in a Stock Exchange statement this morning that its withdrawal from America will force it to pare back its cost base, resulting in a significant hit against this year’s profits.
The last and second to last paragraphs of UB's response contradict one another. but I am not surprised to see that this is their response. Unfortunately, UB's head-in-the-sand approach ("we do not undertake to determine the legality...") sets it up for a real problem with the law that was passed, if DoJ gets aggressive about enforcement. I bet all the sites will be playing a HUGE game of chicken to see who can remain the most aggressive about U.S. customers without putting a giant target on themselves to be the test case for prosecution. I laughed at Nate's prediction that Bodog would do something bold and stupid (nice!), but that actually seems pretty plausible. Everyone in the industry may be looking for someone else to be the bad boy who tests the limits.
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As much as I like seeing positive and optimistic news, this really doesn't mean anything. Of course the online cardrooms are going to tell everyone not to worry, and that nothing has changed. They don't want to create widespread panic and pandemonium a la the bonus whoring and sudden cashout run that killed off Integrity Casinos a few years ago.
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Exactly, even if they had near rock solid plans to totally shut down in like 60 days, I think theyd send this response out anyways at this point.
That being said, I doubt most sites are gonna go down without trying a few ways to get around the legislation, too much money at stake.
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Agreed. I don't think the sites will tip their hands too much right away, except for maybe the publicly traded ones. They are facing the same uncertainty we are.
ACPlayer
10-01-2006, 11:18 PM
What is the liability to the company (eg Party Poker or Neteller) if they have no ops or assets in the States?
If I was a share holder, I would want them to keep accepting US customers until the regs are in place (at a minimum) and likely after unless there was a clear financial exposure.
I dont understand enough about financial transactions. Anyone shed some light please.
dibbs
10-01-2006, 11:20 PM
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What is the liability to the company (eg Party Poker or Neteller) if they have no ops or assets in the States?
If I was a share holder, I would want them to keep accepting US customers until the regs are in place (at a minimum) and likely after unless there was a clear financial exposure.
I dont understand enough about financial transactions. Anyone shed some light please.
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I think a pretty good response to your question:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...rue#Post7502373 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=law&Number=7502373&Se archpage=1&Main=7500771&Words=+Mr.K&topic=&Search= true#Post7502373)
mother_brain
10-02-2006, 01:37 AM
Good work AJ. I personally like these responses, at least they are something solid from the companies instead of a bunch of lifetilted posters speculating.
A response from Neteller would be great as well.
fanmail
10-02-2006, 01:39 AM
Neteller response from "My letter to neteller" (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7503198&an=0&page=0#Post 7503198)
Sniper
10-02-2006, 01:41 AM
Someone posted Neteller's response earlier... business as usual...
Bottom line, imo: Neteller has no issues from the bill until regs are determined AND the banks make any necessary technical changes to comply with the regs.
We should be seeing "official" statements to the market from the publically traded companies shortly.
AJFenix
10-02-2006, 01:42 AM
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Good work AJ. I personally like these responses, at least they are something solid from the companies instead of a bunch of lifetilted posters speculating.
A response from Neteller would be great as well.
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I can't take credit for it , some other poster posted it in a diff thread, I felt it deserved own thread. Neteller already issued response. All the privately trade sites seem to be sticking around. I've been told Party will issue a statement tomorrow, and I expect it to be bad. Hopefully that is wrong.
mother_brain
10-02-2006, 01:43 AM
Thanks guys
mother_brain
10-02-2006, 01:47 AM
Come to think of it how could transfers to/from Neteller be restricted when they could just as easily be for sports betting rather than poker.
i'm sure somebody has mentioned this before. But it would certainly be difficult to track.
crzylgs
10-02-2006, 02:24 AM
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Come to think of it how could transfers to/from Neteller be restricted when they could just as easily be for sports betting rather than poker.
i'm sure somebody has mentioned this before. But it would certainly be difficult to track.
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Ummmm.... sports betting online is now illegal as well.
KDawg
10-02-2006, 02:26 AM
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Come to think of it how could transfers to/from Neteller be restricted when they could just as easily be for sports betting rather than poker.
i'm sure somebody has mentioned this before. But it would certainly be difficult to track.
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Ummmm.... sports betting online is now illegal as well.
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it always was, didn't stop people from making bets online for a long time. Ladbrokes didn't accept american bets for as long as I can remember
crzylgs
10-02-2006, 02:58 AM
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Come to think of it how could transfers to/from Neteller be restricted when they could just as easily be for sports betting rather than poker.
i'm sure somebody has mentioned this before. But it would certainly be difficult to track.
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Ummmm.... sports betting online is now illegal as well.
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it always was, didn't stop people from making bets online for a long time. Ladbrokes didn't accept american bets for as long as I can remember
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My point is that sportsbetting was specifically included in the new act as well, so "Well, I was just betting on sports with that money..." is not going to work as an excuse.
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