Why don't David and Mason start a PPA?

[psuasskicker]

I was reading through the other Mat/Mason/David thread and frankly disappointed in Mason's responses. I completely understand the inability to support the PPA when it is so coy in its dealings. I wouldn't send money to the PPA despite its asking me for it several times because I couldn't figure out anything it was actually doing for me or my rights as a player.

But the attitude was taken by Mason that he won't take action because he isn't an expert on this and he'll leave that for others who are. Mason/David, if you're reading this, it's disappointing to hear this because of what you've done for the poker community so far...it feels like a let-down.

You've organized a terrific board here with thousands of players who before 2+2 had no connection to each other. This has become a community because of your work. Your actions have done more to unite this community than any others, quite possibly more than all others combined.

What's hard for me to understand is why you don't see this and challenge yourselves to take it to the next level. Poker players are sitting around waiting for some organization around this stuff. We desire representation, we crave our voices to be heard. But to date, no one has stepped up to the plate to adequately deliver.

You two have the ability to do it. You've shown that you know how to grab the players and organize them. It simply makes sense for you to be the ones to start an organization that can actually give the players adequate representation when you have such incredible access to so many key players and such potential for tremendous resources.

I'd ask if you've considered this, and if you chose not to why that is? Change doesn't come without challenges and a lot of work, but you've done both to overcome those challenges before, and change has to start somewhere.

- Chris

[BluffTHIS!]

Mason is too busy already with publishing and this site, and David is too lazy and fritters his time away making posts in SMP.

[JuntMonkey]

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Mason is too busy already with publishing and this site, and David is too lazy and fritters his time away making posts in SMP.

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lol moreobsessedwiththeBiblethanthefanaticshehatesamen ts

[Nibster]

I believe their lawyer told them this legislation would not get passed. Why should they worry about something that will never happen? Maybe next year if their lawyer tells them there's a chance something could happen they'll start supporting the PPA or as you mention organize their own group. Until that time, they need to publish as many books as possible to support the growing online poker industry!?!?

[psuasskicker]

There won't be a growing online poker industry if someone doesn't get organized. I don't have the clout to do it. They do. They can reach thousands of people and they have the contacts and the resources to get things moving in the right direction.

Mason's posts just read to me of someone throwing his hands up into the air and saying "I can't do anything about it!" Most people are like that. The difference is, most people actually can't. David and Mason have the means and the network to actually do something.

I think it's terrible we don't have adequate representation. But when I see a guy who has the ability to get a legit group together that can represent poker players badmouth the only organization trying to claim they rep the players, but then not actually start his own organization, I have to question it.

- Chris

[kickabuck]

As we all know, David and Mason have done an incredible amount for poker over the previous couple decades. Thanks to the enacted legislation, poker has now surely hit a crossroads. I think it can be said that David and Mason have a unique opportunity to mobilize the poker world given their clout, their publishing company, this forum, and their proximity(Vegas) to household name professionals.

The devil of course lies in the details. First and foremost, are they motivated to embark on a task in which there is presently no consensus as to what to do, or how to do it? Time is money, and any worthwhile endeavor on their part will at the very least take a whole lot of time. This is pretty damn near impossible if involved with the every day affairs of a business. One can surmise that it would eventually be time well spent as a successful coalescing of the poker world would help business down the road, but as of now it's a crapshoot, one which in their estimation may not be worth doing, at least until the realities of life after this law are better understood.

I, like you OP, would love to see Mason & co. be vigorously proactive, but despite their unique position in the poker world, the ugly truth is it's just an undertaking that is immense with highly uncertain returns at this moment.

[DuderinoAB]

It wouldn't have been months ago. It would have been risk free and easy to do. I don't know that they could have started their own PPA - they aren't political activists after all - but sending an email or PM to their members keeping them updated on events pertaining to the legislation and ways that they could take action would have been nice. It would not have taken very much time, it would have come at virtually no financial cost, and it would likely have succeeded in further mobilizing the poker community that 2p2 is such a part of. Inaction simply was not prudent. I can only take pleasure in the fact that the bottom line of 2p2 will probably suffer damage far worse than mine.

[evilgenius]

It would have seemed to have been a natural step. But likely would have made no difference. It was political suicide to oppose the ports bill. Joe six-pack would only hear about whomever opposed the bill as being weak on terror and homeland security. Ohh but i voted against it to support online gambling? Yea that would go over better...Our public are very ill informed sheep for the most part.

I didn't take the threat seriously because it seemed the people who knew what was going on didn't.
I do not blame anyone but the Republican party who is pandering to the religous right AGAIN and slipped this in at the last second. This finger pointing is useless. Have some respect for the 2+2 management. I apoligize for all the idiots who have to blame someone. We all were screwed by a politician with presidential aspirations. Blame him and his party (but im sure most repubicans will still vote for him and his party).

Suck it up people without 2+2 in the first place you probably wouldn't have made the money you did. This forum will continue to exist in a more limited fashion(less traffic i bet). Make use of it. Online poker will continue to exist in some form. Adapt. Play live more often.

I am a long time lurker who has never fully used this forum to improve my play beyond reading hands and adjusting slowly. I plan on being more active now.

[Nibster]

2+2 should have followed the advice that was in most of the books they published, be agressive! When you have the best hand or think you have the best hand put the pressure on the other opponent. When you're passive you get put into difficult positions, kind of like the one we are all in now.

[Sniper]

fwiw... 2+2 did take action... for one, it opened this forum! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[1p0kerboy]

It is not their responsibility to legalize online poker. The time and money it would take for that effort is tremendous.

Having said that, I am very surprised that they did absolutely nothing. There are inexpensive ways they could have helped but they chose to not take the issue seriously.

[MicroBob]

PPA was obviously the leader here even though I'm not sure of all the details of what they were trying to do.

David and Mason starting their own PPA, especially when they don't have the inclination or perhaps even the knowledge to do so, would have been silly.
Perhaps almost as silly as blaming them for the passage of this legislation.


If David and Mason are to start an organization then should Cordoza publishing have started their own as well??
Should Ed Miller start his own NPA-PPA organization?

And then Mike Caro too?


If there were 2 or 17 organizations or just 1 organization what good would it have accomplished.


David and Mason admit (wisely) that they really don't know the best way to go about this.
They even consulted a lawyer to see if there was anything else they should consider.


It is apparent to me that the PPA didn't seem to know a whole lot either.
They struck me (from what I saw) as being kind of disorganized and not having much of a plan beyond just telling everybody, "Hey. Lets all call our senators at once."


I just went to the pokerplayersalliance.org website.

There is NO UPDATE on this issue at all except that Frist is attaching it to a piece of legislation that is expected to pass tonight and that we all need to call our senators now.


David and Mason COULD have done the same thing if they wanted but probably realized that they wouldn't do a very good job of it.
they also perhaps had their doubts (correctly so) about the 'everybody call your senators over and over' strategy and didn't want to implement it.


My guess is that if there was an organization that showed a definite strategy and responsible approach to tackling the issue then they would have voiced their full support for it.

IIRC, Mason said that he asked the PPA what specifically they were doing and couldn't even get a response.

[Mr.K]

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fwiw... 2+2 did take action... for one, it opened this forum! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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These talking points have been used again and again, and each time they've been thoroughly discredited. Hosting the forum is good, but not an excuse not to do other easy, proactive things.

[AAAA]

i wonder if this is the same lawyer who told them they shouldn't set up affiliate accounts for two plus two, and should stick to paid advertising?

[Nibster]

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i wonder if this is the same lawyer who told them they shouldn't set up affiliate accounts for two plus two, and should stick to paid advertising?

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/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[psuasskicker]

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I do not blame anyone but the Republican party who is pandering to the religous right AGAIN and slipped this in at the last second. This finger pointing is useless. Have some respect for the 2+2 management.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a little ridiculous.
1) It's not the right. It's the right and left. There's no vocal opposition to this bill from the public, and both sides are pushing it through.
2) No one's blaming David or Mason. What I'm saying is that they have the resources and network to start an organization that can work. Not that they necessarily have to run it. But when you've got a successful business with access to thousands of people with a vested interest in the same thing, doesn't it make sense that they can at least try to get the ball rolling themselves and find people who are qualified for the job if/when they deem themselves not?

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My guess is that if there was an organization that showed a definite strategy and responsible approach to tackling the issue then they would have voiced their full support for it.

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I'm sure they would have as well. My question is, with their resources and contacts, why didn't they try to start it themselves? Start asking around the boards, "Who can do this? Who's interested? How can we raise funds? How can we get organized?" Start getting the ball rolling and start off by saying "We want to organize a group and want people who know how to do this helping us." Instead, they said nothing.

- Chris

[Sniper]

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fwiw... 2+2 did take action... for one, it opened this forum! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

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These talking points have been used again and again, and each time they've been thoroughly discredited. Hosting the forum is good, but not an excuse not to do other easy, proactive things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mr. K...

1. What "easy, proactive things" do you think 2+2 (a publishing company) should have done?

2. What would you like to see 2+2 do at this point?

If someone has already carefully detailed the answers to these questions, then please provide a link. Thx

[Lawman007]

Why don't David and Mason start a PPA?! LOL Hell, they couldn't even figure out whether to oppose the bill before it passed.