Sum up your thoughts

[MikeyPatriot]

I'm very interested in what peoples' mindset is in regards to this legislation. What do you think the effects are? What do you plan on doing? Will you be playing online poker 1 year from now? Etc. It would be nice if we all just posted our thoughts and didn't respond/criticize others, so as to not bog down the thread.

I'll go first.

I don't want to compare myself to victims of 9/11 or Katrina, but the best analogy I can make is that some sort of disaster has happened, I have an understanding of what is going on, but I have no clue what to do. I don't know if I should start withdrawing and play B & M for a living. Should I start thinking about getting a real job again? Move out of the country (online poker would not be the only reason)? Mr. K, Berge, and Nate all felt like comforting parents, teachers, etc., but when the port security [censored] hit the fan and I think it was Mr. K or Berge just posted [censored]...I definitely e-pooped my pants.

The politics behind all of this is, in one word, disgusting. The fact that lotteries and horse racing will continue to go about their business because of established lobbying groups and/or tax dollars is infuriating on many levels. Frist's Terminator-like determination to see this bill passed in whatever way possible (and tacked onto important security bills specifically) makes me cringe.

Pessimistically, I'm very very worried about a couple things. 1) My livelihood. 2) Pending cashouts from Carnaval Poker which is about 3/5ths my roll. Support told me a few days ago cashouts are delayed 2 weeks. I'm worried that either Carnaval won't be able to payout or that by the time I get my money, neteller may be [censored]. I understand that these two scenarios are probably very unlikely, but it's a f-ton of money up in the air for me right now.

Optimistically, I hope the EU or some sort of coalition of countries take the U.S. to WTO court over this. This would be a good issue that the Euros can really [censored] the U.S. with. I also hope that this legislation does as much to gambling/poker as legislation against illegal music downloading.

I'd like to say that I think we're all overreacting. My instinct tells me we are, if only by a bit. But I really can't predict where this is headed at all.

Hopefully I'll be able to tell my kids and grandkids about this whole issue and laugh it off.

[ZBTHorton]

I'll give it a shot.

'I want to be mad, but I'm way too sad'

[MrBlueNose]

My thoughts are that people should try and stop this mass hysteria. Yes, it sucks, but we don't know how bad it sucks yet, nor are we going to know until the regulations are made, which could be awhile. Instead of everyone freaking out, or trying to come up with ideas to circumvent rules that haven't even been made yet, there's really no point to it.

If anything, everyone should just make it their goal to play as much poker as possible while they still can, in case the worst-case scenario actually happens. And then, when the regulations have been made, THEN look at all their options.

[HSB]

The more I think about it the more I think there will be minimal impact.

The FED and DOJ are going to have to come up with the enforcement rules re the bank deposits. This is likely to mean blocking transfers to poker sites and could certainly include sites like Neteller that pretty much don't do anything but gaming. But all we would need is for a few sites to pop up that do a lot of non gaming business and thus don't get flagged as a gaming interest.

If PayPal weren't worried, and started doing business with gaming sites tomorrow, it would take all the teeth out of this legislation.

[Eric Stoner]

I don't play professionally as I just tried to be the best player I could and online poker afforded me that opportunity.

When I started, there were no cardrooms around me, but when one opened up, my goal was to grow a bankroll for me to play live.

I found that I played online much more often even though the live players made the games much better.

Now, I live in a state with three major casinos in driving distance (possibly four) with a five hour drive to Vegas. I will most likely play live more often and stop playing online entirely.

I do feel for those that dropped their short term plans to play professionally - I would be in despair too. I would be lying if I said that I didn't consider it myself at one point. However, when the legislation started to brew up I had a gut feeling it would come to this.

In the short run, I am watching and waiting to see what happens. The long run is very much up in the air, but when I play, I plan on visiting my casinos or arrange (or play) in home games.

FWIW

[jimpo]

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts are that people should try and stop this mass hysteria. Yes, it sucks, but we don't know how bad it sucks yet, nor are we going to know until the regulations are made, which could be awhile. Instead of everyone freaking out, or trying to come up with ideas to circumvent rules that haven't even been made yet, there's really no point to it.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's what you folks have been doing so far... Don't mean to be rude, but from an outsider's perspective, you have been sitting on your asses, keeping your fingers crossed, and saying "no reason to get all freaked out yet, there's absolutely no reason to believe online poker is going to get criminalized". In my opinion the American poker community failed to lobby their views and raise the public awareness on this issue.

[MrBlueNose]

[ QUOTE ]

But that's what you folks have been doing so far... Don't mean to be rude, but from an outsider's perspective, you have been sitting on your asses, keeping your fingers crossed, and saying "no reason to get all freaked out yet, there's absolutely no reason to believe online poker is going to get criminalized". In my opinion the American poker community failed to lobby their views and raise the public awareness on this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I think the American Poker Community, particularly 2+2, have did a very good job with raising awareness on the forums. If you're blaming anyone for not raising public awareness, it should be the poker rooms.

[ChexNFX]

I don't even know to describe how I feel. My world as I know it was just stripped. I'm extremely pissed about this legislation, but at the same time I'm having trouble fighting back my tears about it. To me, its the equivalent of going to school, becoming a doctor and then when i graduate and start working and making good money, they took away my license. I don't know what to think, and will stay posted. I think I will continue playing for now, it will probably be a 3-6 month process before it really dries up and the language becomes a lot clearer.

[BillJames]

My thoughts right now:

I'm very displeased, but I recognize that it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine this bill's impact on internet poker at this stage. When it comes to Congressional statutes, the devil is always in the details, and in this case the "details" are the regulations that must be promulgated within 270 days from the time the bill is signed. That will help clarify matters.

Second, I'm going to keep an eye on sites like pokersitescout over the coming weeks to get a sense of how this will affect the "fish factor". If regular, casual players start leaving in droves because of this legislation, we'll get a good indication in the site traffic numbers pretty soon.

My initial thought on this is that casual players won't even be aware of this legislation until/if Neteller and the other EFTs start prohibiting transactions. If this happens, that's when you'll see the big traffic drop-off.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

1. It sucked that this passed.

2. It's going to take some time to figure out just how much effect this bill has on online poker. Could be VERY bad, could be the proverbial blip on the radar, and of course there's a lot of in-between there.

3. I think it's important for all poker players to be prepared to be prepared regardless of how #2 turns out. For me, this means investing the money I've made to give myself a little bit more security down the road. Some of you are giving up in the five figures in income/year simply by being too lazy to invest your winnings. For others, it might mean going to graduate school. All you kids who graduated from college but have been playing poker ever since -- be smart and apply to some law schools/b-schools, etc for the Fall 2007 school year. You need to get on this stuff NOW.

[FortunaMaximus]

Confused and considering my options. I'm Canadian and have opportunities in the US upcoming in 2007 that definitely needs to be included on my agenda.

But however, I intend to derive a significant source of my income from poker. And while I'm comfortable with B and M play, it's so convenient to have the option to play on your couch. A video game that makes ya money...

You can go corproate and include your poker playing as a revenue stream here in Canada, and take advantage of corporate tax rates.

However, most of my family is Stateside, and my future opportunities are Stateside, and my s/o is American.

I'm not worried, though, but it's frustrating. I'll do what's necessary to make the transition, but the combination of more strigent regulation of Internet use and the uncertainity of where this legislation is going bothers me.

[Little_Luck]

I was ready to pack my bags last night. After having time to digest it today, I feel fine, our government cannot do anything right, you expect them to pull this off, I'm making money right now, just like I did yesterday.

The only difference for me is that I am going to be a little tighter with money due to the risk of future earnings. Cancelled my plans to order that 52 in plasma I had my eye on. May start eating more ramen.

[jtollison78]

[ QUOTE ]
To me, its the equivalent of going to school, becoming a doctor and then when i graduate and start working and making good money, they took away my license.

[/ QUOTE ]

I went to school against my better judgement for a CS degree and graduated 6 months after the '01 downturn. Then I went to graduate school and during my first year saw the stories about jobs being outsourced to India(stories which were on every second magazine cover at teh time...), so I quite and devoted my life to poker over the last two years...

I'm pretty much out of motivation at this point. I think I'm going to find the area with the best government giveaways and let them keep me up for a while. I mean, it only seems fair.

[Charmer]

Im shocked. I feel like Im about to cry. I lied in my bed for 2 hours today on the verge of tears.

Ive developed an intense hatred for the conservative mindset, our legislative system, and our government in general. I really do wish Frist would die. He ruined my, no our, livlihood by (unevenly) imposing his morals upon us. He had to attach it to a legitamate bill to get it passed; this circumvention of the democratic process is digusting.

Im a sophomore in college. I pay my own tuition, entirely from poker. I dont know what Im going to do. How the [censored] am I supposed to pay for college now? This could actually ruin the entire rest of my life.

[yoursmine]

I am to the point that I am seriously questioning my citizenship. The erosion of our freedoms over the last 5 yers or so is remarkable. Much of it was done to "protect" us but in reality its created a Big Brother syndrome within our government. The bill was just one more example.
Im also worried that now I have to find a new line of work. My online play was really starting to take off as I have been having really good success now...like I "get it." Now there may be nothing to get. If it all goes away I have no idea what I am going to do as this was my career and one that I love. To have it taken from me to satisfy some idiot in Washington make me want to vomit.
I honestly think we need a revolution

[wolson]

In the words of Gen McAuliffe: "NUTS"

[billyjex]

i am really worried about 11.5k i had in pokes poker. like i am trying to accept the fact i will probably never see it again

[ChexNFX]

In my opinion, there is no way we'll be held down. Look at it, the players and citizens will slowly hear of this, mainly will start to become active politically. We have all these companies, Poker companies, E-wallet companies, Vegas's money to be able to work with. I can't imagine they are just going to turn their backs on the U.S. market, that would be completely idiotic. There is going to be a huge fight about this, it's just starting to brew, obviously. We have a lot on our side, and people that didn't speak up before will be by the thousands now. We are going to have to fight a negative right-wing media on the issue though. It's going to be one hell of a battle back up, and I'm curious what the poker sites are going to do in the process regarding us playing.

[gilbert]

see: my reply in 270 days.

for now, I guess I will look forward (?) to playing live. I'm not going to panic because I have a big enough bankroll to not even have to play for a couple years. I will start to worry more then.

[Insp. Clue!So?]

A. Don't panic.

B. Cut any freedom-hating bastard you can find a new one come November.

C. Talk about things like personal freedom and liberty at the dinner table, the water cooler, etc. You're only a sheeple if you wanna be.

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
Confused and considering my options. I'm Canadian and have opportunities in the US upcoming in 2007 that definitely needs to be included on my agenda.

But however, I intend to derive a significant source of my income from poker. And while I'm comfortable with B and M play, it's so convenient to have the option to play on your couch. A video game that makes ya money...

You can go corproate and include your poker playing as a revenue stream here in Canada, and take advantage of corporate tax rates.

However, most of my family is Stateside, and my future opportunities are Stateside, and my s/o is American.

I'm not worried, though, but it's frustrating. I'll do what's necessary to make the transition, but the combination of more strigent regulation of Internet use and the uncertainity of where this legislation is going bothers me.

[/ QUOTE ]

youre in great shape. keep your canadian address (or change it to a friends before you leave) and bank accounts, when you move. it will be a long time before they get up to speed no blocking. Get a DirecTV satellite internet subscription at your Canada address and you wont be blocked.

[JPFisher55]

All you panickers are getting carried away. Neteller and Firepay are London Stock Exchange companies. They are not going to voluntarily go out of business by abandoning their customer base i.e. you and me.
Heck US banks do not want to even examine a check deposited into a bank. I recently had an unsigned check go all the way through the FRS system. I was told no one actually looks at the check. So how are banks going to know if the payee of a check is a poker website?
Also, even if US banks decide not to accept transfers designated from Neteller or Firepay, which will take 9-12 months, then Neteller and Firepay can change their designation on EFT's to a foreign bank which no US bank can refuse or tell the source. Also, Neteller and Firepay have some business other than Internet gaming. Blocking their transfers raises serious denial of the rights of their users for other purposes.
Finally, do you really believe that ISP's will successfully block these sites? What about all the porn sites? Remember these poker sites offer play money. What about the rights of the persons who desire to play for free?
This may affect some owners of these sites, some employees based in US, the media that receive advertising revenue from these sites and all the professionals receiving the big endorsement deals from these sites, but not the average online poker player.
Look for huge, expensive litigation from the affected groups.

[ed8383]

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, do you really believe that ISP's will successfully block these sites? What about all the porn sites?

[/ QUOTE ]
there are millions of porn sites. Poker sites there are probably about 15+ big sites (party,stars,ub etc etc) they shouldn't have a problem banning sites since there aren't that many.

[RNiner]

People have always found a way around unjust legislation. (Music downloading, prohibition, etc.) The real sucky thing though is being forced outside the legal world to continue doing something that you love, something that isn't immoral in any way.

Too, the potential for this bill to crush the average gamer's desires to play is frightening. We get our money from them, and if they decide en-masse to stop playing, there goes our salaries.

Finally, the method in which this bill got put through is just downright sickening. I've become so fed up and disillusioned with the American political process of the last 5 years. And this coming from a Political Science major, someone who once looked naively at the system as something I wanted to be a part of. How discouraging. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[erastank]

I honestly think we need a revolution

[/ QUOTE ]

I made all of my mistakes college wise bfeore the advent of online poker. So I worked construction and then discovered OP around 2002. Since then my life has been great and in the last 4 years have been making about 40k ayear from poker, but I also just love playing.

Now, because of certain conservative senators my life has taken a dramatic hit. Unlike most of you I have no degree and no job skills. This isn't because I gave up everything for OP. I gave up a [censored] laborer job for OP. Now it looks like I have to go back to some [censored] job.

This ban is infinging on my right to the pursuit of hapiness. The fact is the United States is causing undo misery not only on its citizens, but the world at large.

A revolution is needed indeed. But a revolution would never happen. I'll keep dreaming about it though.

[Gunslinger1988]

I am frustrated and saddened, but not suprised. I will continue to play. I will play online if possible. If it becomes too difficult to play online, I will return to home games or casinos.
I am also considering relocating to another country. I do not want to leave my home, friends, and family. Language barriers could be tough, but perhaps it would be a fun change of lifestyle.
In reading the bill, it seems to me that at least some states will eventually legalize online poker. I speculate that Frist will get some kind of payment/ownership when this happens.
Big picture, I am very sad at what has happened to our country, not just because of online gaming laws. In stripping our freedoms and pandering to fear to win elections, we have let the terrorists win. Over the next generation I see a global religious war between Islam and Christianity with unfathomable numbers of people dying. This could have been prevented if we had better leadership or more active informed citizens.

[Silent1]

Nate, any idea how this will hit Cryp, price wise?

[LearnedfromTV]

I am disappointed in the process and angry at the hypocrisy that drove it. That we were in this battle of technicalities and backroom deals to begin with, that we live in a country where *if* the bill ever saw the Senate floor on its own it would have been passed easily, for entirely political reasons, by legislators who are supposed to represent us but who are more concerned with soundbites that slant an issue beyond recognition than with actually understanding the things about which the legislate. That there is a large percentage of this country's population who believe they have the right to judge things and people they know nothing about, who chose to be judges rather than to become informed, and who act as though the first does not require the second. This is a general problem; our country is one of loud, extreme opinions rather than reasoned, balanced consideration. In that environment, the middle grounds that are reached are reached through dealmaking rather than dialogue. Our political process satisfies no one, everyone keeps yelling, and people continue to judge rather than respect each other. I was as disgusted by the partisan bickering and empty rhetoric that drove everything else I watched on cspan yesterday as by the handling of the online gambling issue, a symptom of the greater problem.

Where I go from here? I quit a job I disliked two months ago, intending to play online poker as my primary souce of income, because I enjoy it and it pays well. I do not regret this decision. I have money saved and other options, some of which I was already going to pursue alongside online poker. I will continue to play as long as I can and will do whatever I can in the coming months to fight against the removal of this option.

In the short term (next three months or so), I am most concerned about the possibility that the sites will decide to stop taking U.S. business. ISP blocks or banking regulations will take a lot of time, sites deciding they can't take this risk could happen sooner. I don't imagine they will go quietly or quickly, though, so I don't think they will act any earlier than they absolutely must (such as, when the regulation details are clarified). I think early statements next week may not tell us much about the long-term situation, but will at least indicate whether the sites will remain open to us in the near term.

[MacGuyV]

Man, it's harder to filter thru the crap at this forum than it is OOT so I think this "summary thread" is a good idea.

There seems to be 3-4 classes of thought though:
1) We're doooomed move to Canda now!
2) We have ~270 days to play and then we're doomed.
3) We'll still be able to play but the fish will go away.
4) It will be a footnote in our gambooling careers with some easily avoidable barriers.

From reading the thoughts of those whoo seem to be realists, #4 seems pretty unlikely, or at least is an opinion held by a slight minority. This disturbs me a lot. Originally I thought people were overeacting, but if #3 really is our absolute "best case scenerio", then that sucks ass.

[samsonite2100]

My thoughts:

First of all, a lot of you are around 20 years old. Take it from someone older than you that 1) things like this aren't usually as bad as they first seem, and 2) even if they are, you'll pick yourself up and move on.

I was in a band for a number of years that was on the verge of big success. I thought it would be the end of the world if we didn't make it. Well, we didn't make it, and it wasn't the end of the world. I've been playing semi-professionally for around a year now, and if I can't do that any more, it won't be the end of the world, either. I'll find something else to do.

I know this will be an unpopular view right now, but I have a hard time getting worked up for 18-year-olds that feel it's their inalienable right to make millions a year from online poker. And besides, it's not like playing poker is being banned. Worst case scenario, people who truly want to make poker their career will have to move to Las Vegas/AI/Tunica, etc., just like most people have to move for their jobs.

But to sum up: I think the doomsday predictions are hasty and way off the mark.

[The_Wreck]

I feel sorry for all the US players, not just pro's who could possibly see their incomes effected, but also people who play for pleasure. I can't believe in a modern democracy that this is being allowed to happen. However, I just can't see the big OP sites and ecash companies laying down and letting this happen, surely there has to be a response, millions of dollars are at stake for them. Even with the likelehood of OP spreading and booming in Asia, I think the OP companies realise the US market (including the WPT and WSOP) are needed for this to happen, maybe.

[As armas]

I am thoroughly disgusted about this more on a principal basis rather than a lifstyle basis. You know what trumps those fools in Washington? Capitalism and an individual's pursuit of happiness. All the financial and online institutions could say "Darn. Look at that. We cant make billions of dollars any more. Oh well." And the millions of americans who enjoy wagering online could say "Dammit. My government knows better than me what I should and shouldn't do. I guess I should not play online even though I really thought I liked to." YEAH RIGHT LOL. The banks and online sites will find EASY ways around it, send an army of lawyers at this issue, and the players will give Frist and company the middle finger and keep doing whatever they please. Wait never mind, weed is illegal and no one dares do that.
This was Washington at its worst, attaching this to a terrorism bill. Usually these tack ons are pet peeve projects (bridge in Alaska, etc). But now the gov says millions cant wager online and the law saying so wasnt even debated on its own footing? Please please let there be a HUGE public outcry over this. As for all you 2+2ers paying the bills (sort of my situation) online poker will continue pretty much unabated. You will still have your fish, they love it too. AND VOTE LIBERTARIAN!!!!!!!!!!

[jupiterpig]

My thoughts:

Until there is a universal consensus of what is considered legal and illegal, i am gonna let the high interest rates on my savings account "play" my poker for me (although not as much as i could make it is something) until something is set in stone. I still hope things get worked out but until then "im gonna bury the money in a jar in the back yard"

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you think the effects are?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the federal government will start prosecuting high profile on-line players, like the professional who interviewed with 60 minutes, or some of the televised pro's that obviously and conspicuously play on-line for high stakes cash from computers in the US. They'll confiscate a computer, go through the PT database, and try for a conviction under the Wire Act and/or this new Port Security Act. A couple of convictions will be all it takes to effectively end wide-scale on-line poker for US players.

[ QUOTE ]
What do you plan on doing?

[/ QUOTE ]

I cashed out, have a check from Netteller in the mail, closed my online accounts, and plan to play live once or twice a week.

[ QUOTE ]
Will you be playing online poker 1 year from now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Only if it becomes legal to fund and play. I think it might eventually.

[Ray Of Light]

As a UK online poker player, I am saddened by the fact that many recreational US gamblers may now be cut off from poker rooms, but what is all this talk about online poker being 'over'?!?

Funnily enough, there is a vast population outside the shores of America called 'The Rest Of The World'.

So far, the largest poker rooms have focused their advertising on the very lucrative US market, so it should come as no surprise that the bulk of their current revenue comes from US players.

However, with the introduction of this law, they will likely focus on advertising more aggressively to markets they have otherwise ignored, bringing in new fishy players (if you have ever been on the B2B network you will have already met many of us 'crazy Europeans').

In fact a few of the big poker rooms have already been making a huge consistant advertising push in the UK over the past year, (namely Party and Pacific poker).

What this means is that although the easy game selection we have right now may reduce in the near future, it is likely only to slow down for a short time before bouncing back, simply off the strength of the European market alone (the Asian market has only just been tapped, by a new poker room on the Games Grid network).

Lucky for me (yet sadly for those effected), really the only people truly effected HEAVILY by this law, are those who are governed under it (US citizens). The monetary knock-on effect will definantly be felt by online poker pros in the rest of the world, but not to as great an extent.

With the US market slowly being cut out of the online poker loop, online poker can never hope to be sustained as the big booming industry it is right now. However, online poker isn't dead... not by a long shot.

Your focus now should be on finding legal ways to fund your poker room accounts, that allow you to take advantage of these ongoing games.

[Keyser.]

Reading this thread has been cathartic for me. Thanks for starting it, OP.

[Maulik]

[ QUOTE ]
Reading this thread has been cathartic for me. Thanks for starting it, OP.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Life's a bitch, then you die." Nas

[Python49]

My feelings? Kinda feels like I was just told very negative life altering news. Instead of making lots of money with the freedom to travel and see the world while enjoying a game I love, I imagine being stuck in some office behind a cubicle working pay check to pay check.

I feel somewhat optimistc however mainly due to alot of the reasons mentioned above which I also tend to agree with. The fact that the industry is too huge to just roll over and die and the profitability to the person who will offer the services of online poker is too great, SOMEONE out there is going to do it. Basically the first person that can find a way for USA players to play again becomes filthy rich, so it seems very logical to me that they will do it.

I think the absolute worst case scenario would be that all the USA fish are gone but the poker sites go and acquire new masses of fish from other countries and the truly desired players will still be able to play online just fine. Hell, it might even make the games easier if even half the pros from the USA stop playing online and new fish start playing from china or europe. I am not really worried about being able to play, just am concerned about the short term profitability of the game.

[The_Wreck]

feel sorry for the US players, glad the UK and EU takes a different stance on online gambling, but with the asian markets opening up I'm sure the poker boom will continue if not after a little delay, when hopefully the US will have sorted everything out.

[Poppleton]

Everything at this point is speculation because we have no idea how the government is going to enforce this bill and how the poker establishment is going to react.

At this point I am optimistic. I am not sure to what extent the federal government is going to actively pursue enforcing this legislation. This bill serves the political interests of many right-wing politicians who want to show how they are "keeping our children safe". Whether they really want to spend the time and money to shut down this multibillion dollar gambling industry for US customers is an open question but I think unlikely. If Bill Frist can say to the average joe voter that he passed internet gambling legislation, even though it has no teeth, then he is probably satisfied.

Enforcing this legislation is simply nightmarish and likely to be expensive. It is a multibillion dollar industry that will ultimately try whatever it takes to keep US money flowing into it. The idea that these gambling sites are going to abandon the US market is ludicrous. I think the reason we have seen very little resistance from these poker sites is that they haven't seen any sign that the federal government is really ultimately going to crack down on them, rather than just make it a little trickier to deposit money into gambling sites.

Blocking access on the internet to these sites is technically difficult. It would be easy for internet gambling sites to develop ways for you to download and use poker software while still advertising on the internet. As long as there is play money poker, there will be ways to access real money poker.

Again, I don't have any hard evidence and the above is all speculation. Gambling has been around for a long time. It has been accessible via the internet for a long time. The average american is more worried about Iraq, gas prices, medicare rather than "gambling addicts". I guarantee you we will all be playing poker without worries in one year.

[The_Wreck]

I agree, there are far more important issues for the government and people to be concerned about these days than online gambling, I suspect it will prove very expensive and difficult to enforce with the banks.

[blueodum]

The biggest risk is the sites "voluntarily" banning US customers. I suspect the major sites will fight tooth and nail to avoid this result, but they may be forced to shut off US customers in the end.

[HumanACtor]

Im thankful this is happening NOW and not 3 or 4 years ago.

Right now there are billions of dollars at stake, not just for Party, Stars et al but for other giants like Harrahs and Neteller.

Im comforted knowing that any and all politicians' primary goal in life is to plunder and steal money from other people (without first doing this, they cannot exist), and that outweighs all other secondary goals, and so the opportunity to plunder part of this billions of dollars will hopefully outweigh whatever secondary goals politicians have.

[Poker_Hoar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

But that's what you folks have been doing so far... Don't mean to be rude, but from an outsider's perspective, you have been sitting on your asses, keeping your fingers crossed, and saying "no reason to get all freaked out yet, there's absolutely no reason to believe online poker is going to get criminalized". In my opinion the American poker community failed to lobby their views and raise the public awareness on this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I think the American Poker Community, particularly 2+2, have did a very good job with raising awareness on the forums. If you're blaming anyone for not raising public awareness, it should be the poker rooms.

[/ QUOTE ]

WHO DO YOU THINK CREATED THE PPA?

[Poker_Hoar]

[ QUOTE ]
I am to the point that I am seriously questioning my citizenship. The erosion of our freedoms over the last 5 yers or so is remarkable. Much of it was done to "protect" us but in reality its created a Big Brother syndrome within our government. The bill was just one more example.
Im also worried that now I have to find a new line of work. My online play was really starting to take off as I have been having really good success now...like I "get it." Now there may be nothing to get. If it all goes away I have no idea what I am going to do as this was my career and one that I love. To have it taken from me to satisfy some idiot in Washington make me want to vomit.
I honestly think we need a revolution

[/ QUOTE ]

AMEN

[malo]

I am cautiously optimistic.

Frist got what he wanted--a piece of legislation to wave at the religious right to say "Look, I got a law passed making online gambling illegal. Isn't that great?" He's probably happy with just that, but at any rate, he won't be in the Senate next session to try and influence the process of devising regulations.

The banking industry appears to have no interest in babysitting this because of the expense involved. They will push for a weak, watered-down regulatory package that won't cost them too much to enforce. There is a fair chance the regulations will be so weak they leave Neteller/Firepay untouched. If not, other money moving options will come into existence because there will be demand for them.

In a way, I am strangely......relieved. The legislation is done, so this no longer feels like a sword hanging over our heads. Will they do something in Lame Duck? What will happen next session? Etc,etc. Thankfully, this legislation did not amend the Wire Act, which is what we all feared the most.

Certainly will be curious as to how the sites respond over the coming week. I am still somewhat concerned about sites declining American business, but really don't expect it from the bigger ones.

I expect Stars to become a real player in fighting this. They are the only one of the big boys that is strictly a poker house.....no casino, sportsbetting, etc. They have articulate, respected representatives. FWIW, they are in good position to pursue the "poker is a game of skill and should be exempt" argument. Hard to say if they will, or even should, but we'll find out soon enough, I guess.

[OrianasDaad]

Summing up my thoughts:

My concerns over the passage of this legislation aren't too grim, right now.

I have always maintained a separate and distinct bankroll from my other funds with the idea that "once it's gone, it's gone". In other words, I only withdraw from my bankroll, I don't deposit into it. I believe that this bill will make the bankrolls of many people here much less liquid, and will require people to make much better decisions regarding their bankrolls.

Another concern has been the quality of games. I'm not particularly worried on this front either. The games I play in are all, on average, tighter than the norm. I've already learned to beat tight games (2-3 players to the flop), and I'm continuing to improve (and move up in stakes) while my bankroll continues to grow. There's a fallacy in this argument about the "fish". Realize that if all the current "fish" leave, then the least skillful of the "sharks" will become the new "fish". There will always be a disparity among player skills, and those that don't believe so are lying to themselves.

The senate bill did not update the wire act, so it looks like online gambling is just as illegal now as it was before. I personally don't have any problem breaking the law for personal gain, and individuals playing on their computers is pretty small-time.

The only issue that causes me some serious concern is the possible blockage of access to offshore servers by internet service providers. If something like this happened, it would pave the way for more restrictions on personal freedoms, and would be entirely out of my control as an individual.

There have been some good side effects of this lefislation, on a personal level. I have learned a great deal about the legislative process, and how government works. Unfortunately, this seems largely to be elected officials who seem to really like to hear themselves talk. Listening and watching C-Span for a couple of weeks has been enlightning, but incredibly boring.

On a related note, I learned a great deal about the election process, and how to make more informed decisions at the polls.

My plan for the future is pretty fluid right now. Like many poker decisions, "it all depends". I plan on still being a poker player a year from now, but if I have to drive a few times a week to a casino, then so be it. If I can play online, then I would prefer to do that, and is what I will continue to do until such time that it is no longer possible. I'll be keeping a close eye on the situation, and weighing the options as they become available to me.

[bigt2k4]

I really hope that girl likes me, where does bill frist live and where's my hand grenades?

[Guthrie]

My situation is probably quite different from most of the youngsters here who can simply finish their degree and go out and get a good job.

I'm old. I was basically shoved out of my former career in the movie business because I'm old. At the same time my mother's health declined, so I moved from Los Angeles, where poker was freely available, back to Texas, where even charity poker tournaments can get you arrested.

So for me online poker was like mannah from heaven. I'm no balla, but I've been eeking out more money from low stakes grinding than I could working any of the [censored] jobs I could get in this podunk town, all the while available 24/7 to look after my mother and get her to her doctor's appointments. As my game improved it started to look like I could actually do quite well at this.

So for me, yes, this sucks big time. The nearest cardroom is 400 miles away, so playing live is out of the question.

I've voted mainly Republican for decades, but that ends here. I'm actively campaigning against the American Taliban and voting for whatever other candidate has the best chance of knocking off one of the blue-nose scumbags regardless of his party or politics.

Forty years ago I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic. They gave me a top secret security clearance, a badge that was basically a walk-on-water card, and sent me out to neutralize commie spies. I've been a law-abiding citizen all my life.

No more. If the American Taliban wants to declare me a criminal, so be it. I'm now a criminal. [censored] 'em.

[jtr]

[ QUOTE ]
I've voted mainly Republican for decades, but that ends here. I'm actively campaigning against the American Taliban and voting for whatever other candidate has the best chance of knocking off one of the blue-nose scumbags regardless of his party or politics.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post Guthrie. It's a measure of the folly of the current Republican party that they've managed to alienate a guy like you.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

FWIW, I attended a wedding yesterday with a number of friends who are casual online poker players. One who is pretty good and makes some decent income from poker but prefers to play live, one who can be good when he wants to but usually just likes to drink and donk off chips, and one who plays just every now and then. None of them had any idea that the bill passed, or even that it was on the radar screen. I guess I find that comforting, in a way.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, I attended a wedding yesterday with a number of friends who are casual online poker players. One who is pretty good and makes some decent income from poker but prefers to play live, one who can be good when he wants to but usually just likes to drink and donk off chips, and one who plays just every now and then. None of them had any idea that the bill passed, or even that it was on the radar screen. I guess I find that comforting, in a way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was at the Borgata all day yesterday, and never heard it once mentioned. The story in the Washington Post was buried deep on like page 12, too.