Internet gaming ban and WSOP

[iamastud]

If a U.S> internet gaming ban does occur, as was voted in congress and sure to be signed by president, the effect on future WSOP will be tremendous with main event going back to 700-1,000 entrants as so fewer people would put up $10,000 out of pocket and alot less satalite oppotunity. Most players in the past years WSOP were from internet entry. And that could be a thing of the past. A shame.

Doesn't congress have anything better to do with their time?

[olivert]

You, like most myopic U.S. based poker players, don't know you what are talking about.

The poker craze has hit Germany and France in 2006.

The poker craze will hit Italy and Spain in 2007. Italy in particular did an about face and legalized online poker.

The poker craze will arrive at the world's largest and most lucrative gambling market in 2008.

The likes of Steve Lipscomb is laughing at you right now, as the 1st of 3 steps necessary ("choking off" the "air supply" of the likes of TiltWare and PartyGaming) for WPT Enterprises to achieve total global domination of the online poker industry has been taken care of by the U.S. Congress, just as he had anticipated.

Mr. Lipscomb's "friends" in Macau will soon implement Steps 2 and 3.

Harrah's Entertainment, of course, hasn't been sitting around. Look for Harrah's to launch a counteroffensive against Mr. Lipscomb soon.

[JustChip]

If there is a ban for party and stars how does it not affect WPT online?

how is it beneficial to Lipscomb?

[olivert]

[ QUOTE ]
If there is a ban for party and stars how does it not affect WPT online?

how is it beneficial to Lipscomb?

[/ QUOTE ]

Currently, the likes of TiltWare (Full Tilt Poker), PartGaming (PartyPoker), and MANSION are spending millions of dollars, allegedly earned from online gaming and/or related consulting activities in the U.S., to purchase television time at inflated prices, to air (in some cases cheaply-produced) TV poker shows, so that:

1. WPT Enterprises (WPTE) will NEVER be able to get any cash from any U.S. TV network for the Season 2 of the spin-off Professional Poker Tour (PPT) product (which is basically now resting in a coffin with the final nail about to be driven in, especially since the rival Professional Poker LEAGUE, or PPL, is funded and is ready to go.)

2. WPTE will eventually lose its biggest revenue stream, the $10 million in CASH WPTE gets annually from the Travel Channel for the U.S. TV rights to the WPT series. That TV contract is a year-to-year option that runs through 2009.

With the passage of the new law, the chance has gone up for the "air supply" of U.S.-based online gaming revenue for the likes TiltWare, PartyGaming, and MANSION to be "choked off" so that rival TV poker projects, which get on TV as "time buys", will eventually fade away

Furthermore, as WPTE repositions the company by "betting the farm" on the success of WPTE's WPTOnline.com online gaming business, in Asia with the Chinese-speaking markets in Asia in particular, WPTE will be using its connections in Asia, particularly Macau gaming king pin Stanley Ho and his children, to angle for exclusive online gaming licenses in the Asian markets, with China being the key market given that it has the largest population and it is currently the world's most lucrative gambling market.

(I can predict with at least 90% confidence that the WPT will hold its first tournament in CHINA at the MGM Grand Macau in 2008 or 2009.)

Having the new law passed to curtail online gaming in the U.S. is MUCH BETTER for WPTE as a business than if online gaming were fully legalized and taxed in the U.S.

--

Remember that the name of the game is TOTAL GLOBAL DOMINATION.

The common tactic used by all egomanical Bill Gates-wannabes in this game of TOTAL GLOBAL DOMINATION is "choking off the air supply" of opponents.

The likes of TiltWare, PartyGaming, and MANSION tried to "choke off" WPTE's "air supply" of U.S. TV rights fees.

WPTE has essentially struck back, with the help of the U.S. Congress, to try to "choke off" the "air supply" of U.S.-based online gaming revenue earned by the likes of TiltWare, PartyGaming, and MANSION.

[wisehandpoker]

Sorry Oliver, you have me a little confused. Are you suggestiong WPTE was behind Frist's push? Or are they just a fortunate benefactor in all this?

[olivert]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Oliver, you have me a little confused. Are you suggestiong WPTE was behind Frist's push? Or are they just a fortunate benefactor in all this?

[/ QUOTE ]

At this time, I have no way of proving whether WPTE supported Senator Frist or not.

All I know is that the passage of the new law has accomplished one of the 3 steps necessary for WPTE to displace the likes of TiltWare, PartyGaming, MANSION, etc. as the dominant player in the online poker industry by the year 2015, perhaps sooner.

Step 1: Curtailing online gaming in the U.S. in order to "choke off" the "air supply" of TiltWare, PartyGaming, MANSION, etc.

Step 2: Getting an exclusive online gaming license to operate in China

Step 3: Getting exclusive access to gamblers inside China to legally be able to play the WPT Championship and ONLY the WPT Championship (and not be allowed to play the WSOP Main Event or any non-WPT land-based televised poker event.)

It is now up to Harrah's Entertainment to launch a counteroffensive against WPTE.

I have maintained all along that the Communist Party of the People's Republic of China now holds THE KEY to determining which company will control the global online gaming industry, including the global online poker industry, by the year 2015.

[ed8383]

Let me be the first to say that in the next 3-4 years a Pro will once again win the WSOP!

I predicted it first /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TStoneMBD]

if wpt does have exclusive rights to be the poker site of china then i too agree that the wpt will probably monopolize the online poker world. however, that still doesnt mean that they will able to legally offer poker to american citizens. laws still need to be changed dramatically for that. also, i could forsee the united states government not wanting to grant the wpt access to the us poker industry as they are supporting the chinese economy. because the wpt will allow china to tax them largely on their poker revenue, it would be difficult for the united states to also tax them. therefore, i really dont agree with your ascertions. lastly, if online poker remains illegal, especially through the operation of the united states companies, the wpt would not be able to offer poker to us citizens whereas overseas poker sites may find loopholes to continue operation.

do you know what tax agreement the wpt has setup with china? because they are a company operated out of the united states, it would see evident that they will be required to pay tax to the us government on all acrued income. since they would also be taxed firstly by china, how will that arrangement work?

[pig4bill]

Let me guess: Oliver owns a lot of WPTE stock.

[olivert]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me guess: Oliver owns a lot of WPTE stock.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope.

I have never owned or shorting a single share of WPTE or a derivative product whose value depends on the value of WPTE.

Everything I write is monitored by the Security and Exchange Commission.

I would not be surprised if my phone is also being tapped by the DOJ.

Only a total idiot would do what former CBS Marketwatch Managing Editor Thom Calandra did and traded stocks of those companies he wrote about.

[TStoneMBD]

who are you and where do you get your information regarding wpte's future? are you part of their infrastructure?

[olivert]

[ QUOTE ]
who are you and where do you get your information regarding wpte's future? are you part of their infrastructure?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have never worked for WPTE and I have no desire to work for WPTE.

WPTE is a fairly easy company to analyze if you have any understanding of how the entertainment industry works. You can start by going to sec.gov and read all the filings.

[StrayBullet]

[ QUOTE ]
The poker craze will arrive at the world's largest and most lucrative gambling market in 2008.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everybody drink! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[NCAces]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Oliver, you have me a little confused. Are you suggestiong WPTE was behind Frist's push? Or are they just a fortunate benefactor in all this?

[/ QUOTE ]

At this time, I have no way of proving whether WPTE supported Senator Frist or not.

All I know is that the passage of the new law has accomplished one of the 3 steps necessary for WPTE to displace the likes of TiltWare, PartyGaming, MANSION, etc. as the dominant player in the online poker industry by the year 2015, perhaps sooner.

Step 1: Curtailing online gaming in the U.S. in order to "choke off" the "air supply" of TiltWare, PartyGaming, MANSION, etc.

Step 2: Getting an exclusive online gaming license to operate in China

Step 3: Getting exclusive access to gamblers inside China to legally be able to play the WPT Championship and ONLY the WPT Championship (and not be allowed to play the WSOP Main Event or any non-WPT land-based televised poker event.)

It is now up to Harrah's Entertainment to launch a counteroffensive against WPTE.

I have maintained all along that the Communist Party of the People's Republic of China now holds THE KEY to determining which company will control the global online gaming industry, including the global online poker industry, by the year 2015.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen you say this on a number of occassions and I am not flaming you. But, your logic does not seem to hold.

1. If steps 2 and 3 are acomplished, then step 1 is not necessary. If they can get exclusive control of China, then what do they care about other sites. Per your statements, they will dominate China which will let them dominate the world. If they are exclusive in China, why do they care what happens to others?

2. I am a businessman and I run numbers all day long on business opportunity. I can't see a single scenario that makes sense to eliminate your biggest current market, betting on the come that there will be another market as good if not better. This is especially true where the emerging market is controlled by a communist country (meaning risk and uncertainty, two parts of the equation you want very low). You've estimated the China market to take upt to 5 - 10 years to develop ... do you really think they are really prepared to lose the short-term US market, on the hope the long-term China market develops? If the term, "cut off your nose to spite your face" ever had meaning, it is here.

3. If your point is that China will lead them to world domination, why knock out the largest part of the "world?" That makes zero sense as it has been your position that they are in cahoots with the Hos who will lead them to the exclusivity in China. Under your scenario, they could be the only fish in the China lake, and a small fish in the World ocean (which would include the US), or they could be the only fish in the China lake, and a big fish in the World pond (which doesn't include the US). Seems like the former would be better and more profitable, especially because they do have some good branding.

Look forward to your reasoned response.

NCAces

[NCAces]

[ QUOTE ]
Remember that the name of the game is TOTAL GLOBAL DOMINATION.

The common tactic used by all egomanical Bill Gates-wannabes in this game of TOTAL GLOBAL DOMINATION is "choking off the air supply" of opponents.

The likes of TiltWare, PartyGaming, and MANSION tried to "choke off" WPTE's "air supply" of U.S. TV rights fees.

WPTE has essentially struck back, with the help of the U.S. Congress, to try to "choke off" the "air supply" of U.S.-based online gaming revenue earned by the likes of TiltWare, PartyGaming, and MANSION.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, I believe your logic is faulty and your Gates analogy is horrible. Bill Gates has never attempted to beat his competitors by trying to eliminate an entire in dustry in which they could be a big player. Gates uses his huge cash cow in OS and Office revenue to beat others into submission. When you compare the US online market to the rest of the market, this would like Gates being glad that office productivity software has been banned.

As much as I am tired of you bringing it up, your China play at least makes some sense ... who wouldn't want a monopoly on China poker. But the idea that the WPTE would want the largest possible market they could go into to go away makes no sense.

NCAces

[cognito20]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me be the first to say that in the next 3-4 years a Pro will once again win the WSOP!

I predicted it first /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's only been a year since a pro won it anyway. Hachem was a pro when he won the 2005 ME. He wasn't a pro who was known at all outside Australia, and probably not much there, but he was a pro.

[olivert]

Harrah's Entertainment would be incredibly stupid to keep the WSOP in Las Vegas or anywhere else in the U.S.

Now that Harrah's Entertainment will acquire London Clubs International, Harrah's will have operational control of casinos in the UK, Egypt, and South Africa.

Furthermore, Harrah's reportedly is interested in buying an 18% stake in Galaxy Entertainment, which operates casinos in the world's #1 gambling destination: MACAU S.A.R., China.

Because Harrah's makes money hand over fist from the WSOP Gaming Lifestyle Expo, and from the PartyGaming product placement deal, there is no way Harrah's will stand still and give up those two revenue streams without finding alternatives.

One would reasonably expect the WSOP Main Event to move to London in the near term, and eventually Macau as the number of Texas Hold'em players in East Asia (particularly China) ramp up.

I still predict that the 2007 WSOP Main Event will have more players compared to 2006 even if it were to take place in London or Macau instead of Las Vegas.

(Memo to those of you playing the O.T. drinking game: drink it up, as the push by the poker industry to open the China market will only accelerate with the new U.S. law in place.)

[Kieran]

I don't really think London has the right image for the WSOP, and can scarcely imagine it being moved from Vegas. Monte Carlo, maybe?

Of course, as a Londoner, it would be rather convenient for me!

[StrayBullet]

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, Harrah's reportedly is interested in buying an 18% stake in Galaxy Entertainment, which operates casinos in the world's #1 gambling destination: MACAU S.A.R., China.

One would reasonably expect the WSOP Main Event to move to London in the near term, and eventually Macau as the number of Texas Hold'em players in East Asia (particularly China) ramp up.

(Memo to those of you playing the O.T. drinking game: drink it up, as the push by the poker industry to open the China market will only accelerate with the new U.S. law in place.)



[/ QUOTE ]

EVERYBODY drink....THREE times! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
Everything I write is monitored by the Security and Exchange Commission.

I would not be surprised if my phone is also being tapped by the DOJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your massively inflated opinion of yourself amuses me.

[Shoe]

Ok, I think this thread got hijacked big time (although I do find the WPT posts interesting, but think the 3 steps are different... 1. Ban internet gambling to crush the overseas competition.... 2. Legalize and regulate for American companies.... 3. Profit.)

How many entrants do you guys think next year's WSOP will have? If Party/Stars, etc... do not allow U.S. players, can we expect much more than 1,000 entrants? What a shame....

Hopefully some type of outrage will come out of this that online poker is legalized and regulated within the U.S.

[olivert]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry Oliver, you have me a little confused. Are you suggestiong WPTE was behind Frist's push? Or are they just a fortunate benefactor in all this?

[/ QUOTE ]

At this time, I have no way of proving whether WPTE supported Senator Frist or not.

All I know is that the passage of the new law has accomplished one of the 3 steps necessary for WPTE to displace the likes of TiltWare, PartyGaming, MANSION, etc. as the dominant player in the online poker industry by the year 2015, perhaps sooner.

Step 1: Curtailing online gaming in the U.S. in order to "choke off" the "air supply" of TiltWare, PartyGaming, MANSION, etc.

Step 2: Getting an exclusive online gaming license to operate in China

Step 3: Getting exclusive access to gamblers inside China to legally be able to play the WPT Championship and ONLY the WPT Championship (and not be allowed to play the WSOP Main Event or any non-WPT land-based televised poker event.)

It is now up to Harrah's Entertainment to launch a counteroffensive against WPTE.

I have maintained all along that the Communist Party of the People's Republic of China now holds THE KEY to determining which company will control the global online gaming industry, including the global online poker industry, by the year 2015.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've seen you say this on a number of occassions and I am not flaming you. But, your logic does not seem to hold.

1. If steps 2 and 3 are acomplished, then step 1 is not necessary. If they can get exclusive control of China, then what do they care about other sites. Per your statements, they will dominate China which will let them dominate the world. If they are exclusive in China, why do they care what happens to others?

2. I am a businessman and I run numbers all day long on business opportunity. I can't see a single scenario that makes sense to eliminate your biggest current market, betting on the come that there will be another market as good if not better. This is especially true where the emerging market is controlled by a communist country (meaning risk and uncertainty, two parts of the equation you want very low). You've estimated the China market to take upt to 5 - 10 years to develop ... do you really think they are really prepared to lose the short-term US market, on the hope the long-term China market develops? If the term, "cut off your nose to spite your face" ever had meaning, it is here.

3. If your point is that China will lead them to world domination, why knock out the largest part of the "world?" That makes zero sense as it has been your position that they are in cahoots with the Hos who will lead them to the exclusivity in China. Under your scenario, they could be the only fish in the China lake, and a small fish in the World ocean (which would include the US), or they could be the only fish in the China lake, and a big fish in the World pond (which doesn't include the US). Seems like the former would be better and more profitable, especially because they do have some good branding.

Look forward to your reasoned response.


[/ QUOTE ]

Because getting an explicit license to operate online gaming in the Mainland China market will take quite a bit of time and a lot of lobbying money in order to take place, WPTE absolutely needs some entity such as the U.S. Congress to "choke off the air supply" of rivals such as PartyGaming (75% of revenue about to vanish), TiltWare, and MANSION.

Otherwise, WPTE's rivals will be able to build up their war chest much faster than WPTE and will be able to out-spend and out-lobby WPTE.

With the U.S. online gaming ban now all but reality, WPTE has accomplished the first step in its long-term objective of dominating the online gaming industry.

Again, the key market to open will be China. The U.S. market will be closed off for some time, as the number of "poker consumers" are too small (only 1.5 million regular TV viewers and less than 50,000 regular online players) to matter in the grand scheme of things.

(The "70 million U.S. poker players" statistic that the PPA and the WPTE's of the world is meaningless and anyone who uses it is subject to ridicule. I prefer Nielsen TV ratings of TV poker shows as a much more meaningful statistic.)