Let's learn a few lessons from this debacle

[DrewOnTilt]

I'll admit it - before this legislation mess kicked up, I was an apathetic voter. I strongly suspect that the same thing applies to most 2+2ers.

I didn't know the name of my Representative. I only knew the name of one of my Senators (Joe Biden) because he came and gave a speech at my place of work last year. I didn't vote in the 2000 Presidential election. The excuse that I gave was that I was residing abroad at the time and had trouble casting an absentee ballot, but the truth is that I just didn't want to spend the 15 bucks or so that it would have cost me to mail in my identification documents and request for a ballot.

I now know the names and a bit more about all of my Congressmen, because I have written and called all of them several times over the past few months. My Senators are Joseph Biden and Thomas Carper, both Democrats. My Representative is Michael Castle, a Republican.

The way in which this legislation was jammed down our throats is a farce, and I am highly irritated that such underhanded tactics are allowed in our halls of government. I plan to take a more active voice in our country's governance, though I am not sure exactly how I will do this. I strongly encourage others to do this as well.

Prior to last night, there were only a few dozen regular posters in this forum. Last night, there were some 1000 posters viewing and posting in this forum. To all of the newcomers, how many of you plan to take a more active voice in government now? Please don't panic about this now and then forget about it next week. Otherwise, the harsh lessons that we have learned as of late will be all for naught.

[BluffTHIS!]

politics forum - go find it

[Dazarath]

I've always lacked political efficacy. The fact that a bill passed which affects us in a negative manner won't change the fact that I don't feel we can really do much in the first place.

[Berge20]

I'll leave it here for now - I think it has significant relevance and is a thoughtful post.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
politics forum - go find it

[/ QUOTE ]

Come on, bluff. I would do that, except that all of the people who have suddenly found an interest in this matter are here, not in the politics forum. It's all related, anyway.

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
politics forum - go find it

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree BluffTHIS! Drew made a very important post, and one I hope lots of people read. There is definitely a lesson to be taken away from this whole situation, and anyone who doesn't take 5 minutes to think about that will have missed out on something I believe is very important. This isn't all about neteller and Bill Frist and Pokerstars. It is about democratic action (or lack thereof) and its consequences as well.

[yoursmine]

nh Drew.

Totally on point. Def should leave it here as it will have the most impact.

[BluffTHIS!]

Berge and Mr. K,

Sorry if you find this relevant. I have just been trying to discourage all these political rant type of threads. You are both right though that this came about mainly because most players even on this site don't know their own political process well, and the critical importance of being out in front of this kind of stuff well in advance.

But the thing I take away from this mainly is how shoddily members of congress can be treated by the leaders of both parties who ram piggbacks onto a conference report and then limit debate on same.

[DrewOnTilt]

Not trying to rant, Bluff. I just wanted to do what little I could to ensure that those who have suddenly shown interest in this matter don't lose interest just as quickly.

[ QUOTE ]
But the thing I take away from this mainly is how shoddily members of congress can be treated by the leaders of both parties who ram piggbacks onto a conference report and then limit debate on same.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more. It made me sick to see so many Senators and Reps speak out against certain addons to the port bill, only to say that they will have no choice but to accept those add-ons so as not to delay the passage of what is overall a seemingly necessary and useful bill.

That's it for me now. I'm off to play some live poker, assuming that live play didn't get banned last night too. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Eric Stoner]

It's time to understand that politics affects all of us - no matter what the issue may be. For internet gambling, it mattered more because of our choice to play poker online.

There are other issues that I would bring up, but I'll save that for the politics forum.

Organizing poker players can be difficult, but now I think we can learn that there is some benefit to playing collaboratively, away from the tables, once in a while.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Organizing poker players can be difficult, but now I think we can learn that there is some benefit to playing collaboratively, away from the tables, once in a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll drink to that.

[Archon_Wing]

Ugh... I read this forum every now and then to learn about taxes and such. I didn't think there was much to worry about. Yea, I heard about the House passing it but from I read, I would think the situation looked good. So I didn't do anything, I thought everyone would do everything for me. Maybe there were tons of poker players swamping the senator's lines and poker rooms lobbying and throwing out bribes. Well... didn't work out like that. And yea, it's come to bite me in the ass. I'm currently in a state of confusion and trying to sort things out by reading this forum right now.

I don't make a living from poker or anything, but I do play for fun at times, and am offended that my government thinks that me donking off a few dollars is a terrible crime.

I think I got a rude awakening. There's been a massive attack on freedom these past few years. It's selfish of me to say it, but I didn't really grasp the threat until I was affected. This fiasco is just one of attacks on our freedom. These fanatics aren't just going to stop here. A success only motivates them to find more ways of pushing their morality on us. When the majority is apathetic, the extremenists reign because they are so devoted to their cause and there's no one to stop them. What's going to happen if Mr. Frist wins the presidency?

So yea, I've known for a long time my country wasn't headed in the right direction, but I didn't do anything out of apathy and ignorance. I guess the lesson here is that those that don't work to protect their freedoms don't deserve them.

But it's not over yet. Even if we do this for selfish reasons, it's definitely for a good cause. At any rate, it's still better than doing nothing.

[smoore]

Whatever it takes to get you outraged, I guess.

For me, it was the complete disregard for future generations of humans, starting with the horrible financial situation my grandchildren will be left with and ending somewhere around the rejection of responsible and sustainable technologies. Poker did it for you, huh?

Cool man.

edit: used quickreply. not directed at re:

[Archon_Wing]

Aha. You could call poker the proverbial straw. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[WaimanaloSlim]

That laws are made this way is insane.

A bill dedicated to addressing port security passes the House of Representatives. Then it gets to the Senate, where a small group of them add a previously unsuccessful piece of legislation totally unrelated to port security to the end of it, a 200+ page document. Now it's headed to the office of the President, waiting to be signed into law.

Am I crazy, or does this all sound vaguely un-democratic to you too?

In all, a frustrating and depressing civics lesson/reminder.

[jason75]

[ QUOTE ]
That laws are made this way is insane.

A bill dedicated to addressing port security passes the House of Representatives. Then it gets to the Senate, where a small group of them add a previously unsuccessful piece of legislation totally unrelated to port security to the end of it, a 200+ page document. Now it's headed to the office of the President, waiting to be signed into law.

Am I crazy, or does this all sound vaguely un-democratic to you too?

In all, a frustrating and depressing civics lesson/reminder.

[/ QUOTE ]

This kind of thing is standard operating procedure. And for folks that think the Dems hands are somehow clean ("we voted for Port Security"), all I have to say is, what good is political power if you never use it.

As someone who has been politically involved since I was young, I often cringe at the ignorance and apathy people in my generation (I'm 30) display.

I'm trying not to be unduly harsh here . . . Perhaps the good of this is to serve as a wake up call to folks. Now that you're awake, it's your job to figure out how to stay awake by getting involved in what's going on in this world.

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the good of this is to serve as a wake up call to folks. Now that you're awake, it's your job to figure out how to stay awake by getting involved in what's going on in this world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. Hence, my original post. I haven't been able to stop thinking about this for days.

Really, I hope something good comes of all this panic and mayhem.

[The DaveR]

Iraq, Afghanistan, habeas corpus, nuclear proliferation, terrorism, NSA spying on US citizens, secret prisons abroad, genocide in Africa, taxes...all these things didn't motivate you to vote but poker did. Better late than never, I guess.

[Josh.]

yeah this whole process has really opened my eyes. i always wondered why people bothered caring about politics and felt like it's a waste of time. this is really the first time that i've directly felt the effect of government on my life.

[Grasshopp3r]

Vote.

There was less than 56% turnout in 2004. That means that your vote counts twice. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html

Here is some interesting comments on the US election process.

http://hnn.us/articles/1161.html

The non-single purpose legislation rule is a congressional rule, not a constitutional rule. There are several states that have single purpose rules to avoid this exact thing.

[TomBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll admit it - before this legislation mess kicked up, I was an apathetic voter.

[/ QUOTE ] Check.
Awareness and acceptance are prerequisite to effecting change.

I am proud that I have usually at least tried to keep the worst apparent scum out of political office though the use of my vote.

[Mr.K]

[ QUOTE ]
I have just been trying to discourage all these political rant type of threads.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you on that effort. Passage of the bill has caused traffic in this forum to explode, and the quality of the discussion has declined measurably as a result. More not = better, esp. so far as posters with no firsthand subject matter knowledge.