Am I out thinking myself? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

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TheMuppet

09-23-2006, 12:43 PM

After a long poker break, I'm back to playing some low stakes full ring.

I've put in a few solid sessions so far, and these two hands came up.

First hand:

(I butchered this one good)

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $53.45
UTG+1: $51.35
MP1: $34.50
MP2: $16.50
MP3: $45.75
Hero: $52.10
Button: $48.75
SB: $71.05
BB: $15.55

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

I limped pre flop, simply because there where so many limpers, and I would hate to play an inflated pot even with position.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($3, 6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets $2, MP2 calls, MP3 raises to $5, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

So I hit middle set, someone bets and is called and then raised, I'm not sure I like my hand very much any more, but I call.

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/club.gif ($23, 4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 is all-in $11, MP3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

A blank falls, shorty pushes. And I go ?!!? I guess he has QJ and wants the FD out, but I call thinking that MP1 proberly folds. But he does not.

River: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($56, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $56)
MP1 is all-in $18

Another blank, and MP1 open pushes. I am sure one of them has QJ and my hand is nothing but a bluff catcher, so I fold.

How bad is this?

Second hand:

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
7 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $29
UTG+1: $77.60
MP1: $27.95
Hero: $60.75
Button: $48.35
SB: $61.10
BB: $17.20

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Folded to me, and I make my standard raise.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($4.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.5, UTG calls.

I make a standard contiunation bet.

Turn: 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($11.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $5, UTG calls.

Ugly card, and I dont like my hand so much anymore. I bet $5 simply because he usually raises if this helped his hand in any way, and if I bet $10 I more or less comitteted to call if he pushes.

River: J/images/graemlins/club.gif ($21.75, 2 players)
UTG is all-in $18.5

He just called, and now he open pushes. I think that he might have flopped a set, he might have a hand like AJ, obviously he could have a str. But I figure I'm good here more than 33% so I call.

How bad did I butcher this one?

MrMxyztplk

09-23-2006, 12:47 PM

Hand 1 is just aweful. You should have raised on every single action.

Hand 2 is better, though I'd bet more on the turn. As played, I think I'd call river.

mattnxtc

09-23-2006, 12:47 PM

hand 1....get it all in on the turn. Its not even close

hand 2 you can fold the river...he rarely has anything but the straight

avfletch

09-23-2006, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB checks.

I limped pre flop, simply because there where so many limpers, and I would hate to play an inflated pot even with position.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to get over this ASAP. 4xBB + 1 per limper doesn't over inflate the pot and you definitely want to do it with a massive hand like TT when you have position.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: T/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($3, 6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets $2, MP2 calls, MP3 raises to $5, Hero calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

So I hit middle set, someone bets and is called and then raised, I'm not sure I like my hand very much any more, but I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have a big hand and a decent amount of pot equity even if he's already got a straight. Bet/raise just go nuts.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: 4/images/graemlins/club.gif ($23, 4 players)
MP1 checks, MP2 is all-in $11, MP3 folds, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

A blank falls, shorty pushes. And I go ?!!? I guess he has QJ and wants the FD out, but I call thinking that MP1 proberly folds. But he does not.

River: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($56, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $56)
MP1 is all-in $18

Another blank, and MP1 open pushes. I am sure one of them has QJ and my hand is nothing but a bluff catcher, so I fold.

How bad is this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I cried a little when I read this /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Second hand:

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
7 players

Stack sizes:
UTG: $29
UTG+1: $77.60
MP1: $27.95
Hero: $60.75
Button: $48.35
SB: $61.10
BB: $17.20

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is CO with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, UTG calls.

Folded to me, and I make my standard raise.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($4.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.5, UTG calls.

I make a standard contiunation bet.

Turn: 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($11.75, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $5, UTG calls.

Ugly card, and I dont like my hand so much anymore. I bet $5 simply because he usually raises if this helped his hand in any way, and if I bet $10 I more or less comitteted to call if he pushes.

River: J/images/graemlins/club.gif ($21.75, 2 players)
UTG is all-in $18.5

He just called, and now he open pushes. I think that he might have flopped a set, he might have a hand like AJ, obviously he could have a str. But I figure I'm good here more than 33% so I call.

How bad did I butcher this one?

[/ QUOTE ]

Another BB preflop then pot the flop. I'd be looking to get more value out of this turn and I want to avoid looking weak. If he's drawing to an ISD then you're paying him off here. You really want to avoid making < 1/2PSBs on the turn that look weak because you won't know why villain c/r's you.

I agree with calling on the end here. You're definitely good often enouhg.

Sir Winalot

09-23-2006, 12:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So I hit middle set, someone bets and is called and then raised, I'm not sure I like my hand very much any more, but I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Woot?! I think you're seeing monsters under the bed here. Raise flop and push turn. And as matt said, it's not even close.

xwillience

09-23-2006, 04:23 PM

Hand 1: raise preflop. You want to thin the field and get it 2-3 handed, not giving everyone a cheap flop.

Also, FR, this is a very strong line taken by the villains ahead of you. I would expect to see QJ a lot too. the turn call is fine. the river fold.... i think its okay.

Hand 2: check the turn through. call any medium sized bet on the river. ie, dont call a push or anything more than 2/3 the pot.

Shaddux

09-23-2006, 04:31 PM

Hand 1: Raise pf. You claim that you do not want to bloat the pot with a raise, but with this many limpers, you are basically playing for set value anyways. Also, 3bet flop. Immediately putting villain on KK or QJ is way too weak-tight.

Hand 2: I probably c/f turn. Not sure though. As played, I call river but don't like it.

TheMuppet

09-24-2006, 03:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Woot?! I think you're seeing monsters under the bed here. Raise flop and push turn. And as matt said, it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do /images/graemlins/smile.gif I've been on a monster cooler since the beginning of August (which is why I have played so little).

I know its just in my mind, but when you play 15K hands and get show nothing but the stone cold nuts all the time, well then you really start seeing monsters under the bed.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. Its nice to know that I'm definitly out thinking myself, and that I do see monsters under the bed.

On and btw. my hand was good in hand 1 (so I folded the winner), and in hand 2 he had air (basically he was hoping I couldnt call, and its a good move, this is a very tough call).

Dunkman

09-24-2006, 04:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I do /images/graemlins/smile.gif I've been on a monster cooler since the beginning of August (which is why I have played so little).

I know its just in my mind, but when you play 15K hands and get show nothing but the stone cold nuts all the time, well then you really start seeing monsters under the bed.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies. Its nice to know that I'm definitly out thinking myself, and that I do see monsters under the bed.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why I switched to 6max. Now, when I expect them to show me the nuts, I see like tpnk that was drawing dead against my set. 6max is the nuts...seriously.

TheMuppet

09-24-2006, 04:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That's why I switched to 6max. Now, when I expect them to show me the nuts, I see like tpnk that was drawing dead against my set. 6max is the nuts...seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just switched back, I've been playing nothing but 6M the last 6 months.

After playing 6M for so many hands, FR seems a lot easier. And playing 8-12 tables of FR is a lot easier than doing the same on 6M (but I'm also running hot as hell right now...16.5PTBB/100)

Poker Fool

09-24-2006, 05:29 AM

Hand 1:
You can debate the wisdom of the plays made before the river but the river fold is the biggest error imho.

Plenty of hands you are ahead of here, a few you are behind.
With a strong read you can fold but otherwise its call.

Play it for set value if you wish, but once you have hit your set remember what the idea was.

Hand 2:
I dont mind the flop bet here if that is your standard continuation bet.
You are way to readable if hands you hit are pot bets and continuation bets are under pot bets. Way to readable.

Turn:
Either bet the pot or not at all, a pot builder here and still giving odds to chase is the worst.

All I have here is a pair and that board is getting nasty. I probably check behind for pot control.