NL $25: BB special flops bottom two... Now what?

[crookdimwit]

I always feel lost with bottom two pair like this. Seems like the kind of marginal situation I don't have a great handle on how to play well...

So I'm relatively new to the table. Not a lot of reads on my opponents yet.

How's my flop bet?
How'd I do on the turn?
What's the next move on the river?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 ($14.25)
CO ($16.20)
Button ($10.05)
SB ($46.35)
Crookdimwit ($25.80)
UTG ($12.50)
UTG+1 ($13.95)
MP1 ($19.50)

Preflop: Crookdimwit is BB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB completes, Crookdimwit checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Crookdimwit bets $1</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $1, CO folds, SB folds.

Turn: ($3.25) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Crookdimwit bets $3</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to $9</font>, Crookdimwit calls $6.

River: ($21.25) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Crookdimwit ???</font>

[Dunkman]

Flop bet is fine, turn bet is fine...uhhg missed the draw...geez lemme think about this for a minute.

Wow, yeah this spot blows. Part of me wants to just shove the turn, but if he calls we most likely have 11 outs, and are best like never. I can't really put villian on a hand here. You are ahead of most K hands. Most likely hand that beats you imo is KT, or some K2 suited crap if he's really awful. TT and 44 obviously highly unlikely, KK is even more unlikely, and I don't see how ducks make it to the turn. I suppose it could be a flush draw, but I'm not really sure how that gets to the turn either. Honestly, I'd probably call out of sheer confusion on the turn. River, I have no idea, check then look into his soul and see if he has it.

[EMc]

I like your line on the flop, and the turn is not bad. I cant see that 2 really helping him, and we picked up a flush draw, so lets see the river.

On the river, I like a c/c

[jk3a]

Looks good, I'm a little torn between betting the river and checking it. It's probably very read dependent. Villian is probably not folding if he holds a King, but betting lets him off to easy if he was bluffing. The more I think about, checking probably gets the most value the times you're ahead. Villian only has 10 left, so you're not folding.

[wallywojo]

I read something recently regarding a situation like this where if you get raised like this on the turn, if you are going to call you should also be strongly considering calling the river bet as well. If you are in check/fold mode on the river, you realized you were behind and might as well just saved some money and folded your pride on the turn. I have been doing this lately and it saves me money and from going tilty when I never improve on the river.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
I read something recently regarding a situation like this where if you get raised like this on the turn, if you are going to call you should also be strongly considering calling the river bet as well. If you are in check/fold mode on the river, you realized you were behind and might as well just saved some money and folded your pride on the turn. I have been doing this lately and it saves me money and from going tilty when I never improve on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have 13outs, getting 15/6 plus you are ahead a fair bit

[xGREGORx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I read something recently regarding a situation like this where if you get raised like this on the turn, if you are going to call you should also be strongly considering calling the river bet as well. If you are in check/fold mode on the river, you realized you were behind and might as well just saved some money and folded your pride on the turn. I have been doing this lately and it saves me money and from going tilty when I never improve on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

you have 13outs, getting 15/6 plus you are ahead a fair bit

[/ QUOTE ]

KT is likely for villian. The T might be no good.

[nyc999]

You played the hand well. Bottom-2 pair should be played aggressively, especially in a multi-way pot. I'm inclined to fold the river (assuming a push) unless you think villain would be this aggressive with TP.

[Kaz The Original]

You have to fold the river to any REASONABLE (read near potish / 2/3rds pot bet) unless you have noticed excess aggression from villian before. Most $25 NL players have you beat here, although their are a fair share of ultra aggressive bluffers who have air here lots. This is why reads are so important. Anyway, the turn call is fine, although if you didn't have the spades it would, imo, be a pretty easy fold. I would push the river if you hit anything, and check and fold to a decent bet as is.

[kurto]

This is a tricky hand. Though our opponents often make horrendous inexplicable plays, I can't imagine what villain does this that OP is ahead of here unless the guy is doing a bad slowplay of aces.

It smells like a set or a better two pair. This looks like the typical slowplayed set. (this is giving the villain some credit as not being a complete idiot) I don't think the OP has any many outs as people are giving him. I'd say his flush outs are likely all good. All the other outs are suspect. If this is true, then off the top of my head it looks like he has the right implied odds to call the turn raise if he thinks he can stack the guy if he hits.

If I had no read on the player and I was in this hand, I call the turn reraise and I fold the river. If I had a read that the player was an abolute idiot and or a maniac, I might push here.