NL $50: Set of Deuces , exctraction ?

[wallywojo]

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
Hero: $47.70
CO: $71.91
Button: $24.65
SB: $49.58
BB: $43.49

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is UTG with http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-content/images/classic-cards/2s.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-content/images/classic-cards/2d.png
Hero calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB checks.

Flop: http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-content/images/classic-cards/9s.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-content/images/classic-cards/jh.png http://www.neildewhurst.com/wp-content/images/classic-cards/2h.png ($1.5, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $1.27</font>, BB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $5</font>, 2 folds.
Uncalled bets: $3.73 returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: $5.31

BB here is quite loose preflop, but seems to be decent postflop so far. No real reads on SB.

My preflop play: In the past I have been raising all PP if first in, but now I am trying something where &lt; 99 EP I am going to try limping, especially against loose players who will likely call almost all cbets since my hand will likely not be good if I go to showdown.

This is a perfect place for slowplaying to burn you. What I am wondering here is what is the right bet amount. The weak opener then the caller tells me someone is on a draw, possib ly both. Usually people will chase for 'just 4 more' so I was quite shocked to see the folds.

What does everyone make the flop raise?

Thanks,
Wally

[nyc999]

You played it fine, although sometimes I'll mix in a pf raise. It's an extremely draw-heavy board - push the draws out and hope for Jx to call.

[Dunkman]

Yep you have to pound this flop, I actually would have probably raised a little more. Winning the pot here isn't a bad result given the board.

Edit: Flop raise I would have done 7 or so.

[EMc]

Wally,

If your villain has no hand, you wont get extraction.

You face a paradox in that if he has a flush draw hes gonna call, but if he doesnt, he probably wont, but you cant give a free card with the flushy board.

[bottomset]

raising preflop is fun

[bmk67]

[ QUOTE ]
raising preflop is fun

[/ QUOTE ]

(As this is a 5 player game, I'm going to comment it as if it were 6MAX.)

Not to criticize OP's play at all (I think his line was fine), but if I'm first in, and I've got a playable hand, I'm almost always sticking in a standard 3-4xBB raise, at least in 6MAX, and often in full ring except perhaps with an implied odds hand such as this in EP.

Why? a) It often buys you better position, enabling you to take it down unimproved with a c-bet in the event that you don't hit a set. b) It disguises your hand. c) Raising is fun. d) Raising gives you information. Oh, and even if your c-bet is called (and not raised), you'll still get to see the turn, and probably the river for free, all for the investment of a 3/4-PSB. Raising gives you more options postflop. On the other hand, if you get reraised, you'll want to throw up, especially if you fold and there's a deuce on the flop. However, in short handed games, I think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

Oftentimes you take it down preflop as well, and that's not really a bad thing. You're only going to stack someone if you flop a set, and if they've got something they'll take to the felt, and that just doesn't happen all that often.

Limping is fine, but you're depending on hitting your set, and getting action from a hand you beat. Raising gives you more ways to win - and at micro limits the PF raise/c-bet play with position is a highly profitable play.

P.S. as a previous poster stated, you aren't going to get extraction unless the villian has a hand, and clearly in this case, he had something, but I suspect you got all out of villian that you were going to get.

[quarkncover]

I raise this preflop 100% of the time.

You made a good sized flop raise, sry villain didn't have a hand this time.

[aces_dad]

post flop is fine, you can't just call with so many draws out there. If someone had a J you prolly would have got called.

preflop, there are many discussions about, I personally think limping 2-8's EP in SSNL is okay, and as people get more comfortable / experienced (such as you don't have to cbet if you get called in 3 places) it is good to open up here.

[wallywojo]

For those that are for raising preflop here, I too am for that, but at this table at this time, I tightened up due to the number of callers/CBet callers I was getting. Maybe when my postflop reads are more finely tuned I can feel comfortable with the all PP against any opponent, but here I decided to change.

Last question then on this post:

With these loose opponents, it is very hard to narrow their range. How do you successfully go about that against these players with &gt;50 VP$IP?

I am really struggling with that, seems like all overcards scare me because they can be playing any two suited.

[Shaddux]

Good raise...too bad you didn't get action.

[ASPoker8]

This is pretty standard. I usually always limp preflop with 22-77. With that flop, a bet, and a call, you have to raise to $4-7.

10-8, Q-10, flush draw.. even something like KQ, K10, Q8.

No freebies. Too bad it didn't work out, but I think you played it fine.

[IceMuncher]

[ QUOTE ]

Last question then on this post:

With these loose opponents, it is very hard to narrow their range. How do you successfully go about that against these players with &gt;50 VP$IP?

I am really struggling with that, seems like all overcards scare me because they can be playing any two suited.

[/ QUOTE ]
I try to determine what they have based on post flop play. A lot of the bad players are very predictable once you've sat down long to see how they play. With low PP's though, I mostly let it go if there's action in front of me, and cbet with position. Most of the time they have nothing, and if they're calling cbets often with nothing, then tighten up and value bet more.