30/60 Stud8 777 vs CC

[blumpkin]

Very good 30 game. Butted heads with Carlos on this one.

The 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif brings in, the 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif and 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif fold, Carlos completes with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif up, the 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif and Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif fold, and I decide to 2-bet it with (3/images/graemlins/club.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif)7/images/graemlins/spade.gif. The bring-in folds and Carlos calls the raise.

On 4th, I pair my door card and he catches a suited ace:

Me: (7/images/graemlins/club.gif3/images/graemlins/club.gif)7/images/graemlins/spade.gif7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
CC: (xx)6/images/graemlins/diamond.gifA/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

What's the best way to play this?

[BeerMoney]

Interesting, blump, I don't know how the numbers work in stud, but the key to this hand is that carlos will likely put you on something different from split sevens, right?

[DeathDonkey]

I think you should bet now and if for some reason he raises, call and checkraise later. If he doesn't raise you can still probably checkraise later. Your hand isn't that strong so not sure what you are thinking about here.

-DeathDonkey

[mscags]

I would just bet and if he raises just call so you can hopefully trap him on 5th street

[Xellos]

I was going to reply and say bet/call and c/r a later street like DD and mscags, but what cards can Carlos catch that will allow us to check/raise later without the possibility of being freerolled? The best case scenario I suppose would be to c/r a 6. Doing it on an Ace carries the possibility of walking into bigger trips. A 7 or 8 would be okay too I suppose. A 9+ diamond I guess, but I don't know what our equity is on 5th against a 4 flush+4 low.

Thinking it over, I now prefer a bet/3bet here. I think this actually disguises your hand better, and doesn't force you to walk into a possible trainwreck later where you either c/r into a made hand and turn your hand face up in the process, or even worse, your c/r fails and he takes a free card.

*edit*
After thinking it over yet again in the shower, 3betting his raise probably doesn't disguise your hand that well, as it's either 2 pair, trips or quads unless you would do this with 5s6s7s7 or another 3 spade hand and a pair of 7s. I still prefer bet/3bet though.

[Joe Tall]

You bet and 3-bet his raise. Then go from there.

[blumpkin]

For those who say bet, call a raise, and check/raise later, under what conditions do you try a check/raise on 5th? For example, if I catch a low card and he bricks, it seems like a bad place to check/raise. On the other hand, it he catches a low card and I brick, it seems natural to check/raise.

[Bill King]

he's not going to let you c/r him on 5th with just a FD, if you check to him on 5th hes definitly checking behind i am positive unless he makes a bigger set or has something of bigger value than just a diamond draw.

[Bill King]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, blump, I don't know how the numbers work in stud, but the key to this hand is that carlos will likely put you on something different from split sevens, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

if the c/r on 5th works and carlost falls for it and bets out, you can be sure hes going to re-evaluate the hand and go through possible ranges.

although, i do think that you're probably in good shape because i doubt a lot of the time you're going to bump it with just split 7's against a solid player (i hope) so your hand may well be camouflaged.

[AlanBostick]

I concur. The only way a checkraise on 5th will make you money is if the villain paired a buried ace on 4th and then bricks and bets into you. Bet on fourth, and bet and reraise on fifth if the villain bricks, otherwise bet and call.

[Andy B]

I would just keep betting and raising until Carster gave me a reason not to.

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
I would just keep betting and raising until Carster gave me a reason not to.

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG, that's that's Carster!!??

[dsaxton]

I would bet / 3-bet 4th street, as it's unlikely he has either a straight or a flush draw at this point (he probably would've reraised on 3rd street with 3 suited small cards). I would continue betting aggressively until his board became very coordinated, assuming I haven't filled up by that point.

[blumpkin]

For those who say bet/3-bet, would you ever bet/3-bet any hands besides trip sevens (and perhaps something like pocket aces) here? If not, then you are saying that it's still best even though your hand is now face-up?

[Xellos]

[ QUOTE ]
For those who say bet/3-bet, would you ever bet/3-bet any hands besides trip sevens (and perhaps something like pocket aces) here? If not, then you are saying that it's still best even though your hand is now face-up?

[/ QUOTE ]

I occassionally reraise tight players in this situation with buried QQ/KK, and I'd play that like this here too. I think the problem with going for a checkraise is if we do it when we catch bad and he catches good there's an extremely good chance we're being freerolled. Once you do the c/r it will make your hand pretty clear anyway, may as well turn your hand face up while you're still well ahead.

[blumpkin]

If Carlos raises 4th and has made a pair of aces on 4th (which I think is likely, given his 3rd street tendencies and the fact that the aces are live), I think 3-betting might not be the best play. Here are some thoughts.

1. He will not cap 4th street unless he has 4 baby diamonds or three aces. Thus we only gain 1 small bet on 4th street by 3-betting rather than smooth-calling a raise. When more bets go in our hand isn't that strong.

2. If we 3-bet and he catches bad on 5th street, he might be able to fold a pair of aces pretty easily. On the other hand, if we had smooth called, and then bet out 5th if he catches bad, he probably will continue with the hand. In fact, if we catch bad on 5th he might raise.

3. If he catches good on 5th and we catch bad, we can check/raise almost certainly. Moreover, he is likely not freerolling, but rather probably has aces and 4 to a low, with which he will definitely see the river, and will probably be forced to pay off a river bet if he makes aces up even though the check/raise pretty much convinces him we have trips.