Casino Extreme screws me out of $3000 in winnings.

[ImsaKidd]

I'll try to keep this from being tl;dr.

I deposited $200 at Extreme to do their initial bonus. Cashed out something like $950. My cashout is processed, casino management says nothing.

A couple days after this, they have a reload weekend. I bust 3 $500 stickies for -$1500.

On the 4th sticky, I hit quads at caribbean stud for a $4100 payout. Request a Cashout for $4300 after i finish the WR. I have to send in faxback forms which take about 3 days to process.

I am told I need to email the casino manager, and he tells me:

"Due to legislation in Illinois, gambling under the age of 21 is strictly prohibited. Therefor, your winnings will be removed from your account and your original deposit will be credited back to your NETeller account."

Player beware. If you get a big win it will be tough to get a cashout from extreme. Their incompetence in processing my first cashout led me to believe I was allowed to play at their site, and then I get a big win and they screw me over.

EDIT: I did a PAB with Casinomeister. I recieved no correspondence for like a week, and I emailed extreme to see what was up. They told me they donated $3000 to a charity in South Africa. I asked which charity this was and for proof of the donation, and I have not recieved a response yet (3 days).

[thomasperfecto]

Did you get all your deposits back?

[136913691369]

Was there anything in the T&C's about having to be 21 or over?

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you get all your deposits back?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Out a total of $3k.

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
Was there anything in the T&C's about having to be 21 or over?

[/ QUOTE ]

It said of legal age to play, which I interptreted as 18+ since that is the age for the country where extreme is licensed.

If I violated the T&C's, they chose a "convenient" time to tell me that I couldnt get my winnings.

[krazyace5]

That sucks, what a bunch of dirtbag scammers.

[JPT III]

did you independently confirm that the mngr's interpretation of Ill. law is in fact accurate?

[bb88]

Yeah, it's 18 to gamble just about everywhere, but 21 in the casino's. I'm 20 and can play the lotto or go to bingo if I wanted to. I would definately go PAB and see what I could do as far as figuring out the law.

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
did you independently confirm that the mngr's interpretation of Ill. law is in fact accurate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I made a post on the legislastion forum, but not a lot of good responses.

How would I independently verify this?

[kypreanus]

The casino IMHO shows very nasty tactics when first allowing you to withdraw your winnings and later when you hit it big, they deny it. I must wonder how much money they save by finding different reasons not to pay each time someone wins big.

I am glad that you contacted Casinomeister as players must be warned of this kind of casinos. It is a shame that the industry suffers from Rogues likes this and I hope you get your money.

[Freakin]

Filed a Montana Overseas dispute yet?

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
Filed a Montana Overseas dispute yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

They said you must be 21, so no.

[novel20]

Seriously, gamble after ou are 21, okay?

[WiSeIVIaN]

This is complete and total [censored]. In illinois, the riverboat casino gambling age is 21. This is in large parts due to the fact that large amounts of liquor are sold on gambling boats.

However you can play the lotto at 18. You can also play in charity casino and poker games at the age of 18. (search rockford charity games). Hence, unless casino extreme is a riverboat casino in no way is gambling under 21 illegial in Illinois. Hit up casino meister, hit up casino dave, hit up the legislative forum, and if you need anything from me let me know.

None riverboat gambling is 18+ in illinois. Period...

*edit* I gave casinodave an e-mail for you directing him to this thread. Hopefully he has some pull to help this casino do the right thing. There is a reason why as a 19 year old poker and casino whore from Illinois I am yet to get winnings confiscated because of my state laws...And that reason is not because casino extreme is the only gambling site that correctly interprets them...

[grac]

Did they subtract your intital winnings from the buyins they returned to you?

Either way I'm sorry about this JKIDD this is a bad beat. I would at least be on them requesting proof of that donation, and you want it done in your name.

[NL Rounder]

Casino Extreme has a well established history of screwing players out of their winnings.

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
This is complete and total [censored]. In illinois, the riverboat casino gambling age is 21. This is in large parts due to the fact that large amounts of liquor are sold on gambling boats.

However you can play the lotto at 18. You can also play in charity casino and poker games at the age of 18. (search rockford charity games). Hence, unless casino extreme is a riverboat casino in no way is gambling under 21 illegial in Illinois. Hit up casino meister, hit up casino dave, hit up the legislative forum, and if you need anything from me let me know.

None riverboat gambling is 18+ in illinois. Period...

*edit* I gave casinodave an e-mail for you directing him to this thread. Hopefully he has some pull to help this casino do the right thing. There is a reason why as a 19 year old poker and casino whore from Illinois I am yet to get winnings confiscated because of my state laws...And that reason is not because casino extreme is the only gambling site that correctly interprets them...

[/ QUOTE ]

I've emailed Dave and CM. I'll post a link to this thread on the leg forum as well. It seems like we're in the same boat.

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, gamble after ou are 21, okay?

[/ QUOTE ]

What about if I gamble in a manner that is +EV? I am open with my parents about what I do (my mom gave me $35 to start after my 18th b-day), and I try to explain to them how the bonuses make casino games +EV. They might not understand the entire system, but results speak for themselves.

[BigDave]

Sorry for the delay on this topic. Not to go into any of my personal problems, but I have had a fairly large life altering event that has provented me from being active on the boards here, and delayed on my email responses. Slowly but surely things are getting back to normal.

I have been however active in getting ImsaKidd's problem resolved for the last 2 weeks. To this point it is not going well. Here is the email from Extreme that sums up their thoughts on the matter:

-------------------------------

Hi Dave

This player did NOT lose ANY of his deposits as he is soo deceptively implying. On the first cashout we processed, we had not requested faxback forms. We then suspected he did not meet the requirements to be allowed to play with us and requested faxback forms from him. The faxback identity verification process indeed showed that he did not meet the minimum age requirements to play at Casino Extreme being from Illinois. We then refunded all deposits less withdrawals such that his account reflected a $0 revolving balance. It is therefore as if he never deposited.

He whent to CasinoMeister and pitched a bitch with Bryan Bailey, who in turn contacted us and suggested we donate the "winnings" the player accumulated to a charity. We are in the process of choosing a charity in South Africa to donate the winnings to.

-------------------------------

I then went back and forth with them regarding the laws in Illinois, which there answer is that "It is always been the players responsibility blah blah lawyers blah blah jurisdiction blah". Basically it is like talking to a wall.

I have let the manager know that there are many people who do not appreciate this treatment of ImsaKidd, or the fact that their "Instant" cashouts are becoming less and less "Instant". I have also let them know that I have pulled all Casino Extreme Banners and mentions of their casino from my site unless a different arrangement can be made with ImsaKidd.

I will post back with an update within the next day or two. To Jason or anyone else that has been casued grief from Casino Extreme, I am very sorry.

[terrellk11]

[ QUOTE ]
We then suspected he did not meet the requirements to be allowed to play with us and requested faxback forms from him.

[/ QUOTE ]

In English, this translates to "He was winning too much money so we had to find a way to avoid paying him."

You can bet your ass that if he'd lost money they wouldn't have gone back to check if he was proper age and then paid him back his deposit.

[Quercus]

So, uh, if he'd lost everything would they have refunded his deposits?

[Little_Luck]

Did you put in your correct birthdate when signing up?

[LinusKS]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We then suspected he did not meet the requirements to be allowed to play with us and requested faxback forms from him.

[/ QUOTE ]

In English, this translates to "He was winning too much money so we had to find a way to avoid paying him."

You can bet your ass that if he'd lost money they wouldn't have gone back to check if he was proper age and then paid him back his deposit.

[/ QUOTE ]

No internet casino is licensed or regulated in the US. They're effectively beyond the reach of the law - US law, at least - and they know that. Were they within the reach of the law, they'd be out of business, because what they're doing is not legal here. And they know that.

So, yeah, it's BS - it's just a way to screw somebody out of his winnings. They're freerolling imsakid.

Unfortunately, the only recourse any player has against any casino is bad publicity.

And Casino Extreme thinks it's covered because there's precedent - CM himself "ruled" in favor of another casino, when that casino screwed a 19 yr old out of 18k (GBP? - I don't remember).

So they think they can get away with it.

[scorer]

Thanks to casinodave for looking into this.

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you put in your correct birthdate when signing up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I never supplied incorrect information to this casino (or any casino for that matter).

I recieved a reply from the Casino Extreme manager, he refused to tell me any information about the "charitable donation" his casino made to the charity. I am skeptical that they made any donation whatsoever.

Dave: Thank you for your help in all of this. You definitely have the player's intrest at heart, and your site is the best for up and coming casino players. I cannot imagine casino-ing without your help.

[thomasperfecto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did you put in your correct birthdate when signing up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I never supplied incorrect information to this casino (or any casino for that matter).

I recieved a reply from the Casino Extreme manager, he refused to tell me any information about the "charitable donation" his casino made to the charity. I am skeptical that they made any donation whatsoever.

Dave: Thank you for your help in all of this. You definitely have the player's intrest at heart, and your site is the best for up and coming casino players. I cannot imagine casino-ing without your help.

[/ QUOTE ]

Man you don't want that money to go to charity. Thats YOU'RE money!
The bastrds.

[UATrewqaz]

[ QUOTE ]
So, uh, if he'd lost everything would they have refunded his deposits?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicky had a system. When he won he collected, when he lost he told them to go F themselves.

http://scorsese.free.fr/casino13.jpg

[thomasperfecto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So, uh, if he'd lost everything would they have refunded his deposits?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nicky had a system. When he won he collected, when he lost he told them to go F themselves.

http://scorsese.free.fr/casino13.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]
"I think in all fairness I should explain to you exactly what it is that I do. For instance, tomorrow morning I like to get up nice and early take a walk down over to the bank and walk in and see you and um, if you don't have my money for me, I'll crack your [censored]' head wide open in front of everybody at the bank. And just about the time that I'm coming out of jail, hopefully you'll be coming out of your coma and guess what? I'll split your [censored]' head open again 'cuz i'm [censored]' stupid, I don't give a [censored] about jail. That's my business. That's what I do."

[JPT III]

[ QUOTE ]


No internet casino is licensed or regulated in the US. They're effectively beyond the reach of the law - US law, at least - and they know that. Were they within the reach of the law, they'd be out of business, because what they're doing is not legal here. And they know that.

So, yeah, it's BS - it's just a way to screw somebody out of his winnings. They're freerolling imsakid.


[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely. Imsakid (and/or BigDave), you should (if you have not already) set forth the exact language of the Illinois statute that prohibits minors from gaming in Illinois casinos. I'm sure that the language prohibiting minors from entering casinos refers to specific casinos in Illinois, licensed and operating under section blah blah blah of some Illinois statute. Set forth that language, and then explain to Extreme that the language does not include Extreme, or any other Internet casino not expressly described by the Illinois law. Prove to them, in writing and with clarity, that it is beyond dispute that they're wrong. Beat them over the head with it again and again!!


Also, consider threatening to have a forum thread/poll asking for everyone who lost money at Extreme while under 21 and residing in Illinois (or any other state with the same law) to come forward and seek recompense for their losses, which Extreme has now obligated itself to give.


Keep fighting them over your 3K -- friggin' sleezebags!

[livinitup0]

[ QUOTE ]
This is complete and total [censored]. In illinois, the riverboat casino gambling age is 21. This is in large parts due to the fact that large amounts of liquor are sold on gambling boats.

However you can play the lotto at 18. You can also play in charity casino and poker games at the age of 18. (search rockford charity games). Hence, unless casino extreme is a riverboat casino in no way is gambling under 21 illegial in Illinois. Hit up casino meister, hit up casino dave, hit up the legislative forum, and if you need anything from me let me know.

None riverboat gambling is 18+ in illinois. Period...

*edit* I gave casinodave an e-mail for you directing him to this thread. Hopefully he has some pull to help this casino do the right thing. There is a reason why as a 19 year old poker and casino whore from Illinois I am yet to get winnings confiscated because of my state laws...And that reason is not because casino extreme is the only gambling site that correctly interprets them...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only kinda true. Gambling in Illinois besides at approved, liscensed venues is illegal in all forms. Its not like all other gambling is 18+ and riverboats are 21+. 18+ is for games that have no profit. I.E lottery going to schools, Charity games going to ....charity.

Imsa....did it say 21+ in the signup T&C's? Or did it say to check with your local legislation? Usually its both. This sucks though. I wont be hitting this one.

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


No internet casino is licensed or regulated in the US. They're effectively beyond the reach of the law - US law, at least - and they know that. Were they within the reach of the law, they'd be out of business, because what they're doing is not legal here. And they know that.

So, yeah, it's BS - it's just a way to screw somebody out of his winnings. They're freerolling imsakid.


[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely. Imsakid (and/or BigDave), you should (if you have not already) set forth the exact language of the Illinois statute that prohibits minors from gaming in Illinois casinos. I'm sure that the language prohibiting minors from entering casinos refers to specific casinos in Illinois, licensed and operating under section blah blah blah of some Illinois statute. Set forth that language, and then explain to Extreme that the language does not include Extreme, or any other Internet casino not expressly described by the Illinois law. Prove to them, in writing and with clarity, that it is beyond dispute that they're wrong. Beat them over the head with it again and again!!


Also, consider threatening to have a forum thread/poll asking for everyone who lost money at Extreme while under 21 and residing in Illinois (or any other state with the same law) to come forward and seek recompense for their losses, which Extreme has now obligated itself to give.


Keep fighting them over your 3K -- friggin' sleezebags!

[/ QUOTE ]

Where can I find a list of the Illinois statutes?

[crovax4444]

ImsaKidd, this has been done before. If you're under the age of 21, and it specifically says age of majority in the US, then it means 21+. GO research it at CM, there was a case just like this not that long ago, and CM stood by the casino's decision. I'm not exactly sure what Illinois has to do with anything, if your a US citizen, you need to be 21+ to gamble if it doesn't specifically say "18 or older", or you always run the risk of losing your deposit + winnings.

Crovax

[cgwahl]

What a load.

From site:
[ QUOTE ]
Limited Access to Casino: We reserve the right to limit the access of the Casino to any persons for any reason that the Casino deems necessary. You are automatically and without notice prohibited from playing at our casino if any of the following apply to you:

Minors and anyone under the age of 18

[/ QUOTE ]


This however is what may go against you, but even still. They let you withdrawal the first time with no problem:

[ QUOTE ]
Any individual from a jurisdiction in which gaming is unlawful. Participation in gaming and the activities at our casino is only open to persons living in jurisdictions where such participation is legal and not prohibited.

[/ QUOTE ]

[BigDave]

I wish this story had a happy ending:

-------------------------
Hi Dave.

We are aware of the negative postings and honestly, they have no impact on our decision. We consulted with legal experts on this and they told us that gambling in Illinois is illegal under the age of 21. Lotteries and horse racing have their own laws and regulations. If he wants to fight with someone, he needs to fight with legislators about this. These few negative postings are really not such a problem for us as the silence regarding our operation speaks for itself. People only complain when they donot get things their own way or when they feel they have been wronged in some way. No one posts compliments about us for fear of being insulted and accosted by other members who were indeed wronged under our old regime. We have for more than 3 years now run a clean and honest operation and cannot be held responsible for the fraud and problems caused by an owner long since un-involved with us in any way. Our stance on this case will not change. We have not retroactively changed our rules or defrauded anyone. We have and will continue to stick to our terms and conditions to the letter as laid out on our website.
-------------------------------------------------
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not exactly sure what Illinois has to do with anything, if your a US citizen, you need to be 21+ to gamble if it doesn't specifically say "18 or older", or you always run the risk of losing your deposit + winnings.


[/ QUOTE ]

This unfortunatly is a lesson to be learned. An expensive lesson for one that hopefully others can at least learn from. If you are under 21, before you deposit you should read through the terms carefully. If you are not sure, I would ask customer support to make sure.

Imsakidd, this is not a blast at you. I don't think you were in the wrong on this one. They knew you lived in Illinois and that you were 19 when you entered information at signup, not from your ID or documents. This was some shady [censored]. Sucks man. Here's to hitting the next one big.

[SoloAJ]

As someone who is from Illinois, 21, and signed up at casino Extreme but not registered....

I thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention...even if your intentions are mostly for your own benefit ...

This sucks man. I don't know why they wouldn't give you back all your 500 deposits or whatever. I never understood how they think they can take your deposits but not give you your winnings...

There is NO reason you can't get your money...because they don't have to deal with the Illinois State Law.

Eff them. I'm not doing them for sure now.

[krazyace5]

I am sure if it was not age they would have found another way to screw op out of his money.

Casino Extreme are a bunch of thieves.

[OnePatheticLoser]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, consider threatening to have a forum thread/poll asking for everyone who lost money at Extreme while under 21 and residing in Illinois (or any other state with the same law) to come forward and seek recompense for their losses, which Extreme has now obligated itself to give.


[/ QUOTE ]
What would be the best way to get this started? I would like to see if they will refund anyone else in Illinois(or almost an US state for that matter) their deposits back who were under the age of 21!

[1huskerfan]

Good Luck with that.

[WiSeIVIaN]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, consider threatening to have a forum thread/poll asking for everyone who lost money at Extreme while under 21 and residing in Illinois (or any other state with the same law) to come forward and seek recompense for their losses, which Extreme has now obligated itself to give.


[/ QUOTE ]
What would be the best way to get this started? I would like to see if they will refund anyone else in Illinois(or almost an US state for that matter) their deposits back who were under the age of 21!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thx for your help casinodave. Sorry for the response imsakid. This is a BS move by casinoextreme. In the many other casino's I've whored, I've never gotton anything withheld because of my age....

*edit* I contacted support and asked for my $200 back because if they had no intention on ever giving me any winnings because I am 19 and from illinois, my deposit should simply be refunded. Long story short, the cs guy said no losses can be refunded (as expected). Crooked [censored]. What can I say.

[thomasperfecto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, consider threatening to have a forum thread/poll asking for everyone who lost money at Extreme while under 21 and residing in Illinois (or any other state with the same law) to come forward and seek recompense for their losses, which Extreme has now obligated itself to give.


[/ QUOTE ]
What would be the best way to get this started? I would like to see if they will refund anyone else in Illinois(or almost an US state for that matter) their deposits back who were under the age of 21!

[/ QUOTE ]
I f00kin hate these dodgy casinos. I think everyone under 21 who's ever lost money there should now demand the money back.

[Thremp]

Freerolling is such [censored].

[ImsaKidd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, consider threatening to have a forum thread/poll asking for everyone who lost money at Extreme while under 21 and residing in Illinois (or any other state with the same law) to come forward and seek recompense for their losses, which Extreme has now obligated itself to give.


[/ QUOTE ]
What would be the best way to get this started? I would like to see if they will refund anyone else in Illinois(or almost an US state for that matter) their deposits back who were under the age of 21!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thx for your help casinodave. Sorry for the response imsakid. This is a BS move by casinoextreme. In the many other casino's I've whored, I've never gotton anything withheld because of my age....

*edit* I contacted support and asked for my $200 back because if they had no intention on ever giving me any winnings because I am 19 and from illinois, my deposit should simply be refunded. Long story short, the cs guy said no losses can be refunded (as expected). Crooked [censored]. What can I say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. They are freerolling scumbags for sure. Still no proof of their charitable donations in the amount of $3000.

[cgwahl]

[ QUOTE ]


Eff them. I'm not doing them for sure now.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ironic thing is they are probably happy about this. No bonus whores is probably good for their bottom line...