32Red monthly BJ autoplay errors

[awieise]

Today was my first experience with the autoplay feature. I was very surprised to see that the autoplayer was NOT altogether following the strategy card.

Thinking I may have screwed it up somehow, I made certain that the default strategy was supposed to be loaded, and again observed.

Some of the errors I observed:
my 14 to dealer's 7 stand rather than hit
my 12 to dealer's 9 stand rather than hit
my 14 to dealer's 10 stand rather than hit
my 13 to dealer's 6 hit rather than stand

I am not screaming "FOUL" yet--almost--but I would caution all autoplay users to keep a close watch on what's going on and request that they report any errors here.

I tested several times--if you are experiencing the same thing, you will have at least one screwed up hand in a run of 20 hands dealt. Please check it out!! Thanks

[triten]

Last month I watched the autoplay run for about 50 hands (very small sample) or so and it seemed fine. It runs pretty fast though so I can't always follow the action.

Do they keep records of your hands? If so it would seem pretty easy to prove whether this is true or not.

[hogua]

Cant you just adjust it to play correctly?

BTW, autoplay casinos are rigged

[awieise]

I was thinking that it would be best to get corroboration (sp?) from other players on here before I contact 32Red; but instead I caved and just sent them the following email:

Hi--

My account name is xxxxxxxxxxxx.

Today I attempted to use the autoplay feature on "Atlantic City blackjack" for the first time. I observed that it is not always following the strategy that you have posted on your site.

Some of the errors I observed:
my 14 to dealer's 7 stand rather than hit
my 12 to dealer's 9 stand rather than hit
my 14 to dealer's 10 stand rather than hit
my 13 to dealer's 6 hit rather than stand

I assumed (apparently in error) that your autoplayer would follow the strategy; and allowed it to play 440 hands before I even looked at it. Consequently I am down quite a bit.

I have doublechecked several times to verify that the "default" strategy is supposed to be loaded; and the autoplayer continues to make these errors.

I am befuddled; as you have a good reputation and I don't think you're purposely trying to cheat me. On the other hand, I'm not a raving idiot. Surely you keep some sort of game logs which will back up what I am saying.

Please check into this and get back to me.

Thanks, xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[pathogen]

Actually, I noticed the same thing while I was playing there a few days ago. I went busto on my first deposit setting my first deposit. While I was watching I saw the same things happen but dismissed them because I thought my eyes had been fooling me due to the speed.

I want to do the monthly bonus there soon so perhaps I'll make a video recording of it happening so I can watch it more closely.

[Ken_AA]

They do keep records of all hands played on auto play. Their live help offered to send them to me when I couldn;t figure out why my balance was exactly the same as it was before I started auto playing a few hundred hands (turns out I forgot to hit the start button before walking away).

Use the live chat and request a history of your bets.

Ken

[TomR]

Did you check the settings of the autoplay versus a strategy sheet? Last month was the first month that I used their autoplay and I had to make some minor adjustments to the autoplay settings to make it agree to the strategy sheet that I had.

[awieise]

The strategy sheet, as shown on their site, is correct. The problem is that the autoplayer is making plays DIFFERENT from what the strategy sheet says.

I'll just have to wait and see what 32Red has to say--Although I really can't believe that they are going to investigate, find out their autoplayer is screwed up, and then admit it. If they did admit it, then they would have to make restitution to all the players who used it when it was screwed up--I just can't imagine them doing that. I really think my only hope is for other guys to pay attention and notice the errors and back me up. Although my sending 32Red the email describing the problem gives them the chance to fix it on the sly and then deny it was ever broken. God I wish I'd never heard of 32Red!!

[Thremp]

Play Spanish 21. You never know WTF is going on and you'll sleep easier.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
Play Spanish 21. You never know WTF is going on and you'll sleep easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spanish 21 is a better game anyway.

[pathogen]

AKA Pontoon

[awieise]

32Red's reply to my email:

Hi xxxxxx,

Thank you for your e-mail.

In order for us to investigate your query further, we will need you to search through your play check facility to locate the game number of the hands in question below. Play check can be found in the top left hand corner of you screen and is symbolized as a red tick. Play check stores all of the games you have played including results and each has a reference number (game number). Once we have these details to refer to, we can then send the information to our software providers to find the answers you are requesting.

I will look forward to hearing from you soon.

Kind regards,

Emma
Player Support Team Leader

32Red Casino| Dash Casino |32Red Poker

[awieise]

My next email to 32Red:

Hi again--

Thank you for your response. I have gone to playcheck as you instructed. I can tell you that all the games that I have played using autoplay were in Login Session 1403450, Transactions 10-564.

In attempting to identify the misplayed hands, I attempted to get more detail about the transactions, but when I clicked on the transaction and then "view", all I ever saw was "there is no detail for this transaction".

Another player has suggested that you would send me the detailed records of the hands played. Without them I can do nothing, so please send them!

Again, we're talking about Login session 1403450, transactions 10-564.

Thank you, regards, xxxxxxx

[136913691369]

[ QUOTE ]
My next email to 32Red:

Hi again--

Thank you for your response. I have gone to playcheck as you instructed. I can tell you that all the games that I have played using autoplay were in Login Session 1403450, Transactions 10-564.

In attempting to identify the misplayed hands, I attempted to get more detail about the transactions, but when I clicked on the transaction and then "view", all I ever saw was "there is no detail for this transaction".

Another player has suggested that you would send me the detailed records of the hands played. Without them I can do nothing, so please send them!

Again, we're talking about Login session 1403450, transactions 10-564.

Thank you, regards, xxxxxxx

[/ QUOTE ]

Just so you know, you sound just like a whore. Genuine gamblers don't notice that standing on a 14 against a dealer 7 is a mistake or other commom basic strategy plays, nor would they care even if they did.

I wouldn't expect anymore invitations from 32 red for their monthly match if I were you.

[awieise]

What an interesting viewpoint!

It sounds like you are suggesting that I should just let them keep the money they obtained from me with the malfunctioning autoplay-----so that I will be invited back next month so that they can do it again.

How would you have handled it?

[lumpy19]

I would keep quiet until you stop receiving your 50GBP/month bonus. Even with these errors you're still +EV

[kypreanus]

I wouldnt call it +EV if the autoplayer is such bad. I have noticed also that the autoplay is not MAXEV.

[KSOT]

Sounds like you messed up telling it what to do. It never malfunctioned when I used it.

[ThunderEagle]

I thought I noticed it making mistakes last night as well. I verified the strategy table and that was all good, but I still think there were mistakes being made.

It doesn't help that I've busted this one 2 straight times so far. I think next month I'll just play it out by hand.

[kypreanus]

IMHO if the casino´s autoplay is not set up accordindly to their published strategy chart + it´s playing very bad the casino should compensate for it.

Many web sites advertise 32Reds ´excellent software with auto-play option that playrs love´. IMHO advertising auto play
that stands on 14 when dealer has 10 is not morally questionable. If its an error, it should be fixed. I wouldnt mind if players that have used it were compensated.

And what it comes "I would keep quiet until you stop receiving your 50GBP/month bonus. Even with these errors you're still +EV " IMHO its not that +EV with the autoplay. By hand, +EV. But he has a point.

[awieise]

The latest:

Hi xxxxxx,

Sorry in the time delay in getting back to you. I am going to have to log a call to micro gaming to see why you can not see the gameplay and to find out why the game is not sticking to the default strategy.

This may take some time to sort out, but once I have a response from micro gaming I will get back to you. Once again may I apologise for the delay in our response.

Kind regards

Marc
Player Support Representative
32Red Casino| Dash Casino |32Red Poker

[kypreanus]

I happened to lose my entire first deposit at 32Red, partly thanks to the autoplayer. /images/graemlins/frown.gif I flat-bet the minimum. If the autoplayer had not played so poorly, the risk of ruin would have been remarkably smaller. I sent them an e-mail, lets see what happens.

Awieise, did you get a reply from them?

[awieise]

No reply----

Frankly, in my inner heart-of-hearts, I don't think I am going to get any satisfaction from them.

One thing that I was not really aware of is that each player apparently has the ability to modify the autoplayer's strategy. So if I contend (as I am) that the autoplayer was playing other than the basic optimum strategy (as shown on the strategy card), what is to stop them from saying that I am the one who messed it up?

I really think that I've seen the last of that $100. Of all the ways to lose my money, this is the most bitter . . .

[Ortho]

I played the monthly on autoplay BJ today. I didn't pay any attention to whether it was doing what I told it to (though I do look at the strategy chart to make sure that it's right). I finished 37 units ahead in 1000 hands (I'm sure this goes over with all the doubling and splitting and all but I'm too lazy to figure out how many hands I should actually be playing. Maybe it's cover, because I've gotten the bonus for 3 months now). It might be playing badly, but it's not rigged, or they're just sucking me in by giving me free money every month.

[KKrAAAzy88s]

I did have problems with the auto-play too. I can't remember what happened as it was last week, but I did remember that if I had 11 against the dealer's ace that it would stand and not hit. At first I thought it was just my eyes, but then i saw it happen again when I had 11 on two hands vs the dealer's ace and again it stood on both hands. I said screw it and just let it run out and complete the auto play. I was up quite a bit at the end so I just let it go and didn't pay any attention to it and cashed out. Next time though, I will watch for a bit and email CS if it happens again.

[kypreanus]

Not 100% sure, but appears my latest Atlantic Blackjack session went according to the autoplay strategy, so no complaints here.

[toiletduck]

Well, at least european blackjack is broken. Saw multiple stands on 11 vs tens or aces. Cleared half my WR and switched to Spanish21 as someone advised. God knows what's happening but apparently I'm winning!

[terrellk11]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, at least european blackjack is broken. Saw multiple stands on 11 vs tens or aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean not doubling or not hitting at all?

If you mean not doubling, that's not broken. At European Blackjack, you're not supposed to double with an Ace against a dealer 10 or 11.

[toiletduck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, at least european blackjack is broken. Saw multiple stands on 11 vs tens or aces.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean not doubling or not hitting at all?

If you mean not doubling, that's not broken. At European Blackjack, you're not supposed to double with an Ace against a dealer 10 or 11.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not hitting at all.

[lumpy19]

I think I play Vegas Blackjack and I've never noticed a problem. My results indicate that i'm taking the +EV of everyone in this thread.

[gaming_mouse]

Hey awieise,

This is surprising, if it's true. 32red is about as reputable as they come... it is one of casinomeister's featured casinos.

If you are sure that you did not make some kind of error with the strat card, I would post this in the casinomeister forums. 32red has a rep there, I think, and the investigation will move forward much more quickly.

Just be careful with your wording. If you start throwing out accusations before their rep has had a chance to look into and respond, you'll get flamed and possibly banned.

HTH,
gm

[1huskerfan]

I saw the same things when I cleared the monthly, this mont and last. Casino Classic runs the same software and did the exact same thing on autoplay. I'm keeping quiet as I am way +EV at both.

[TomR]

I had no problems when I used the autoplay on 32Red playing LV Strip BJ earlier this week. But today I saw at least 2 errors in less than 10 hands using autoplay on Vegas Downtown BJ Gold at King Neptune.

On another forum there are people who have had problems as well. It may be limited to the Gold series, which I believe is new.

I emailed support. Hopefully this is resolved soon.

[awieise]

Well, thank goodness--I'm not nuts after all!

I just want my money back without endless hassles and screwing around and stalling. Here it's been a week since their last stall.

I guess my impatience is due in large measure to the microgaming way of doing things--remember the endless stalls on fixing the Prima playcheck (hand histories)? And then after the much-touted "fix" they'd work for a couple of days and then start screwing up again.

I've already had WAY too much of this!

[awieise]

My latest to them:

Hello again--

It's been a week since I last heard from you. Apparently there is a well-documented problem with the autoplay software on the GOLD series blackjack.

Please see this thread from the 2+2 Internet Gambling Forum:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ID=#Post6862846 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6862846&page=0&vc=&PHPSE SSID=#Post6862846)

If you will forgive my saying so, it appears that you are (inadvertently) marketing a defective product.

From my experience with microgaming, I am not optimistic about a speedy and lasting fix for the software.

Additionally, I will never trust the software again, so it is irrelevant to me if and when it is fixed.

If you will just refund my money, I will do us both a favor by putting 32red behind me.

Thanks, regards, xxxxxxxxxx

[awieise]

Latest from them:

Hi xxxxxx,



Thanks for your email.



Please note that your query is being reviewed by our Operations Director, Pat Harrison, and we will revert to you as soon as possible.



In the meantime I thank you for your patience.





Kind regards

Jane
Player Support Team Leader
32Red Casino| Dash Casino |32Red Poker
Casinomeister Best Casino 2003, 2004 & 2005

[toiletduck]

[ QUOTE ]
It may be limited to the Gold series

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]

Please see this thread from the 2+2 Internet Gambling Forum:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...ID=#Post6862846 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6862846&page=0&vc=&PHPSE SSID=#Post6862846)


[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you refer them here?

They stopped this bonus for a while once, presumably b/c it was being overly whored. They may stop it again.

[awieise]

Latest from them:

Hi xxxxxxxx,



Jane has forwarded me the details of your concerns about the Autoplay feature within the Blackjack software not following the strategy as displayed.



We have received a couple of very similar complaints on the same subject and our investigations have proven these to be without any foundation.

The complaints received were based on the standard versions of Blackjack as opposed to the Gold Series version that you were playing. I am unable to access the game logs for this version at present and have asked Microgaming to undertake the investigation on my behalf.



I can assure you that Microgaming will undertake this investigation and that they will ensure that any errors in the software will be corrected with a lasting solution.

I will be in contact with you as soon as I have the outcome of this investigation.



Thanks for your continued patience.



Kind regards,

Pat Harrison
Operations Director
32Red Casino| Dash Casino |32Red Poker
Casinomeister Best Casino 2003, 2004 & 2005

[Eder]

I just watched dealer hit my 16 while dealer was showing a 4...

[KKrAAAzy88s]

after a couple splits, i saw the auto-play hit when i had two face cards against the dealer's 5 or 6. obviously this busted my hand. i've contacted CS and they've asked me to email them with the hand numbers i've played and they'll review it. oh btw, this was for Atlantic City multi-hand BJ.

[awieise]

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO 32red AND MY REPLY:

From them:

Hi xxxxxxxxx,



Further to my email of the 11th August, I can now confirm the outcome of our investigations.



The Autoplay in all 4 versions of the Blackjack Gold Series has been confirmed as not following the strategy, as displayed in the software, under certain scenarios.

The Autoplay was playing incorrectly when the Dealer had a 6 or lower up card and the player had 12 or more as the total value of their first two cards. This error occurred on gameplay transacted between the 31st July and 11th August 2006. The error within the Autoplay was corrected meaning that any game play from the 11th August, using this facility, was following the correct strategy.



In conjunction with our software providers we have reviewed all gaming logs and, unfortunately, we are unable to locate any hands that you were dealt, in this period, that have been affected by the Autoplay playing incorrectly.



Thanks for your patience whilst we investigated this matter and please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.



Kind regards,

Pat Harrison
Operations Director
32Red Casino| Dash Casino |32Red Poker
Casinomeister Best Casino 2003, 2004 & 2005
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%


My reply:

Dear Mr./Ms Harrison:

If I understand you correctly, what you are saying is that what I observed with my own eyes did not occur.

Since you say that you were able to review the game logs of my play, is there any reason why you will not forward those logs to me so that I can satisfy myself that I was in fact delusional as you say?

In the interests of the "fair gaming" that you claim, please forward those logs to me at your earliest convenience.

Thanks, xxxxxxxxxx

[ThunderEagle]

Interesting.

I busto'ed the Aug monthly in that time period,and I did play a good bit of it on the Gold Series since it had a lower min. bet.

I doubt the autocorrected my account. /images/graemlins/smile.gif