boondockst
01-01-2006, 07:44 AM
After the Eurobet split/debacle business a few months ago, I decided to make the jump somewhere else for a while for a change of scenery. I first learned to play on the site (a year ago) and knew the players were horrid yet didnt have any sort of bankroll (nor skill) to take on their games, specifically NL50. I have played Party as its best. I have played in wild 2+2 games. I have played in the most ridiculous 4/8-halfkill game on the planet. And none of these come close to the (lack of) skill of their NL50 and up players.
Example...
SiteX No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Button ($24.29)
SB ($140.88)
BB ($20.00)
UTG ($87.30)
MP ($110.53)
Hero ($62.75)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $2</font>, UTG calls $1, SB calls $1.
Flop: ($6) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $2</font>, UTG calls $2, SB calls $1.
Turn: ($12) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $6</font>, BB calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $12</font>, SB calls $6, BB calls $6.
River: ($48) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB calls $124.88 (All-In), BB calls $4 (All-In), UTG calls $71.30 (All-In).
Final Pot: $248.18
SB has Qd 7d (four of a kind, sevens).
BB has Kh Kc (full house, sevens full of kings).
UTG has Jc 2c (flush, jack high).
Outcome: SB wins $248.18.
Similar to another thread posted recently, this site's players prominently features the min-raise preflop. I've had to double-check the table i'm at when the hand in progress has a limper, min-raiser and min-3-better at it. Sometimes a continuation bet will NEVER take a pot down. I'm not an idiot, I know why raising preflop works mathematically, theoretically and actually. Yet would an extremely loose passive cause you to tighten your raising standards? When I first switched sites, raising AJo and missing a lot of flops, I never seemed to be able to take it down. Check the flop, bet the turn, no luck. Raise the flop, bet the turn, check the river no luck. Check-fold or very dangerously call for the turn was the only option. And while it is nice if you have a gutshot to the nuts or something, another problem is the minimum bet. How do you raise with a set when a villain puts $0.50 into a $14 pot? You have no idea where he is at or any of the villains behind you. Sure it's not the worst problem in the world to have but it's made me have to change my game up quite a bit.
Also, since there's so much min-raising preflop, min-betting postflop and general craptacular postflop play in general (AK-high turn pushes are frighteningly common) I've loosened up at an alarming rate, which can have great success sometimes but when missing flops/tilting/etc. can be your worst enemy.
As i'm typing this, this is a hand that occurred.
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3821/hand1429pu.jpg
Does this make calling 67o from the BB there profitable? (It wasn't me in the hand)
Again, as we speak, a fellow check-called a 5xBB bet on a T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif board with A/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Another problem I've run into is that it's hard to let a hand ago against these guys. Is this just something that I should take along with the profit I reap as an unavoidable side effect? As we speak, I troubled myself with this hand.
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/8121/hand1430bb.jpg
Every bone in my body told me there was absolutely no hand that the villain would play this way and yes I was getting 7 to 1 to call but I probably wouldnt usually make this call. The guy had been sitting there not making too much noise for quite a bit. Gladly I mustered up the courage to make the call but I hope this isn't hurting my game for the future too much. Does anyone play the hand above differently?
Since the villains are so frequently running with only one pair (or worse) I'm frequently pushing hard with my flush draw/overs etc. with mixed success.
So I'm asking
1) At an extremely loose/passive or loose/aggressive table do you still raise ATo/AJo?
2) Give up completely on continuation bets in position in 4- and 5-way pots at 6max? Sometimes you can make a continuation bet to clean up outs, but here it almost assures your outs might be more tainted as Ace-rag bottom pair is more likely to be check-calling.
3) Against players <u>like this</u> and on stacks of 100BB+ of course, is calling min-raises with semi-connected trash +EV? It seems to be at times when an opponent will give you his stack with AK-high when you flopped two pair. Or is this just flawed reasoning?
4) What are thoughts on pumping up the pot when you have a set on a flop that needs to be raised (moderately draw-ful) and you're 2nd of 5 in the raised pot and some douche just bet $0.50 into a $12 pot?
5) I've become WAY too addicted to the check-raise OOP against a PFR or flop bettor when I make my hand. I think it partly developed from all the people flat-calling my bets. However dumb this sounds, letting them take action gives me some information as to their holding whereas a smoothcall behind could be top pair, a draw, or complete air. What is the standard play with KQ on an AJT rainbow flop against idiots who aren't likely to raise without two pair but will call almost all bets with just an ace, yet you're not even sure if they have one and thus how much to bet? I'm sure there's some of you out there that are successful yet rarely use the check-raise. Discuss.
5) When you have a very strong, hidden hand against an opponent making a big bet yet it is not the nuts and the opponent is known to have anything, should caution just be thrown to the wind? Is the following weak-tight?
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2289/hand1226cg.jpg
The turn call was absolutely horrid but is the following overboard against a LAG?
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9494/hand1320hd.jpg
I'm having trouble finding a medium (when running bad mostly) that works. When I'm catching what seems to be an average amount of cards or running well it all seems ridiculously easy against these guys. It's when the table is nuts/I'm OOP/you know the guy doesn't have [censored] that's the trouble.
Edit: Oh for awhile, I was only raising JJ+ and maybe AJs+ if on the button. It was half-experimental, half-running bad and tired of missing flops. I had a discussion with a friend about the pros and cons of this, again, against horrible opponents. Thoughts?
Example...
SiteX No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Button ($24.29)
SB ($140.88)
BB ($20.00)
UTG ($87.30)
MP ($110.53)
Hero ($62.75)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB (poster) completes, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $2</font>, UTG calls $1, SB calls $1.
Flop: ($6) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $2</font>, UTG calls $2, SB calls $1.
Turn: ($12) 7/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $6</font>, BB calls $6, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $12</font>, SB calls $6, BB calls $6.
River: ($48) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB calls $124.88 (All-In), BB calls $4 (All-In), UTG calls $71.30 (All-In).
Final Pot: $248.18
SB has Qd 7d (four of a kind, sevens).
BB has Kh Kc (full house, sevens full of kings).
UTG has Jc 2c (flush, jack high).
Outcome: SB wins $248.18.
Similar to another thread posted recently, this site's players prominently features the min-raise preflop. I've had to double-check the table i'm at when the hand in progress has a limper, min-raiser and min-3-better at it. Sometimes a continuation bet will NEVER take a pot down. I'm not an idiot, I know why raising preflop works mathematically, theoretically and actually. Yet would an extremely loose passive cause you to tighten your raising standards? When I first switched sites, raising AJo and missing a lot of flops, I never seemed to be able to take it down. Check the flop, bet the turn, no luck. Raise the flop, bet the turn, check the river no luck. Check-fold or very dangerously call for the turn was the only option. And while it is nice if you have a gutshot to the nuts or something, another problem is the minimum bet. How do you raise with a set when a villain puts $0.50 into a $14 pot? You have no idea where he is at or any of the villains behind you. Sure it's not the worst problem in the world to have but it's made me have to change my game up quite a bit.
Also, since there's so much min-raising preflop, min-betting postflop and general craptacular postflop play in general (AK-high turn pushes are frighteningly common) I've loosened up at an alarming rate, which can have great success sometimes but when missing flops/tilting/etc. can be your worst enemy.
As i'm typing this, this is a hand that occurred.
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3821/hand1429pu.jpg
Does this make calling 67o from the BB there profitable? (It wasn't me in the hand)
Again, as we speak, a fellow check-called a 5xBB bet on a T/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif board with A/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Another problem I've run into is that it's hard to let a hand ago against these guys. Is this just something that I should take along with the profit I reap as an unavoidable side effect? As we speak, I troubled myself with this hand.
http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/8121/hand1430bb.jpg
Every bone in my body told me there was absolutely no hand that the villain would play this way and yes I was getting 7 to 1 to call but I probably wouldnt usually make this call. The guy had been sitting there not making too much noise for quite a bit. Gladly I mustered up the courage to make the call but I hope this isn't hurting my game for the future too much. Does anyone play the hand above differently?
Since the villains are so frequently running with only one pair (or worse) I'm frequently pushing hard with my flush draw/overs etc. with mixed success.
So I'm asking
1) At an extremely loose/passive or loose/aggressive table do you still raise ATo/AJo?
2) Give up completely on continuation bets in position in 4- and 5-way pots at 6max? Sometimes you can make a continuation bet to clean up outs, but here it almost assures your outs might be more tainted as Ace-rag bottom pair is more likely to be check-calling.
3) Against players <u>like this</u> and on stacks of 100BB+ of course, is calling min-raises with semi-connected trash +EV? It seems to be at times when an opponent will give you his stack with AK-high when you flopped two pair. Or is this just flawed reasoning?
4) What are thoughts on pumping up the pot when you have a set on a flop that needs to be raised (moderately draw-ful) and you're 2nd of 5 in the raised pot and some douche just bet $0.50 into a $12 pot?
5) I've become WAY too addicted to the check-raise OOP against a PFR or flop bettor when I make my hand. I think it partly developed from all the people flat-calling my bets. However dumb this sounds, letting them take action gives me some information as to their holding whereas a smoothcall behind could be top pair, a draw, or complete air. What is the standard play with KQ on an AJT rainbow flop against idiots who aren't likely to raise without two pair but will call almost all bets with just an ace, yet you're not even sure if they have one and thus how much to bet? I'm sure there's some of you out there that are successful yet rarely use the check-raise. Discuss.
5) When you have a very strong, hidden hand against an opponent making a big bet yet it is not the nuts and the opponent is known to have anything, should caution just be thrown to the wind? Is the following weak-tight?
http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/2289/hand1226cg.jpg
The turn call was absolutely horrid but is the following overboard against a LAG?
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9494/hand1320hd.jpg
I'm having trouble finding a medium (when running bad mostly) that works. When I'm catching what seems to be an average amount of cards or running well it all seems ridiculously easy against these guys. It's when the table is nuts/I'm OOP/you know the guy doesn't have [censored] that's the trouble.
Edit: Oh for awhile, I was only raising JJ+ and maybe AJs+ if on the button. It was half-experimental, half-running bad and tired of missing flops. I had a discussion with a friend about the pros and cons of this, again, against horrible opponents. Thoughts?