Meeting With WSOP Officials

[Koumari Boy]

Well today at 11-00am I went along to The Rio Boardrooms to meet with Jeffrey Pollack and four other high ranking WSOP officials (Gary Thompson, Robert Daily, Howard Greenbaum, David Patent).

I have not been a happy camper at The WSOP this year (nor last year for that matter) but at least this was an opportunity to meet face to face with the organizers and express some concerns.

I was accompanied by three fellow players in Tony Bloom, Brian Wilson and John Gale.

Prior to arrival at The Rio we met up at The Bellagio Cafe to decide on our best strategy which we felt was not to try and get bogged down with specifics but more to try and work towards getting agreement on how to go about exchanging views with them with a view to moving forward and improving both the organizers and players lots. After all whatever has happened in the past is now history so we may as well concentrate on the future.

On arrival we got the formal introductions out of the way and then moved on to express our concerns as players about some of the perceptions that we had (rightly or wrongly) about things that concerned us.

Although individual things were brought up as examples to demonstrate various points this was not the time or the place to try and address those points specifically.

As I have posted extensively on my grievances in various public forums both here and elsewhere and requested an audience with The WSOP this is a report back on how things went.

Generally I would have to say that the meeting went well.

There was a feeling that those present were prepared to listen to our concerns and that in general we were really talking about a communications problem.

There was also a welcomed acceptance by those present that some of the criticisms raised were valid and that there was great room for improvement. It was also acknowledged that the players perceptions of things may not always be accurate and that many of those perceptions could be inaccurate due to conclusions being made on heresay and rumour.

Overall then I would say that I would sum up the meeting as follows:

No clear lines of communication between the players and the WSOP officials appears to exist and as such much of what was going on in the tournament area was not getting back to persons responsible for dealing with those issues.

It was also felt that somehow not all information was filtering down to the players from the organizers and that this was something that needed to be addressed along with improvements in the manner in which information was distributed.

I would say then that this meeting was about identifying what to do with our concerns and to whom to go to get those concerns addressed.

It has left me hopeful that there will be future meetings (not necessarily with those specifically mentioned above on either side) where concerns and points can be raised and addressed.

Currently I am going to put together (after consultation with other players and anyone who wishes to contact me) a list of general areas of concern that can be brought up directly with the relevant persons within The Harrah's/WSOP organization with a view to improving things for the future.

Obviously there will be an endless list of things that need addressing but for the time being I plan on starting with some of the more major and general issues.

eg Foreign Player Registration/Tax Witholding/ITIN's would be considered a major general issue whilst Food/Toilets/Food Vouchers would be considered lesser ones (not that they are unimportant just not first priority).

Here's to an optimistic and bright future for The Players and WSOP as we are never going to have one without frank and honest exchanges of views.

[MeanGreenTT]

TY Sir!

[GrinningBuddha]

Harry, have you considered working with the players' advisory board that was set up a few months ago? They may be able to streamline the changes that you'd like to see happen, since they are already working (in theory) with the powers that be at Harrah's.

[WSOPChump]

I know people have had alot of problems with the WSOP. But a few impressive things were it actually starting on time with the 2700 player field for the opener. Its definitely a quality venue.

I think the biggest issues is:
1. The large percentage takeout of the prize pool by Harrhah's. The biggest problem is not necessarily the percentage but the fact the dealers are not seeing it trickle down to them. It would be nice to get a percentage breakdown of where the money is going.

2. I think the foreign tax witholding issue is also huge since the event is very international and other casinos don't withold certain countries taxes it seems easily fixable.

3. It would be nice to see a reduction of fees in the big televised events and a smaller withholding of percentages in the 50K.

The structure changes in the events was bad. But as long as Harrah's listens to the concerns and stops making up the rules as they go long that part should be ok.

In some respects Harrah's has been pretty good for the WSOP. Binnions would not have been able to handle the sheer size of the event. Overall i think Harrah's has been good for the WSOP. There is definitely a sense of excitement you dont get at other venues. But they definitely need to work on a few things also.

[Bill Murphy]

Nice job, Harry.

Marked cards, & poorly trained dealers/floor people would have to be in the top tier.

"Poker rate" rooms being more expensive than "just walked in rate" rooms perhaps in a lower tier, along with sufficient starting stacks, blind increases, level times.

As for the juice, well, Rome ain't built in a day.

[WSOPChump]

true the cheap cards suck.
the floor's response this year and last : every card gets marked so its impossible to mark the cards.

[Kevmath]

Just curious, how much do these Copag setups cost?

[Photoc]

14.95/each retail, about 8.00 bulk.

[Kevmath]

How much would a setup that would be less likely to be marked cost?

[MicroBob]

Good that there listening to you Harry.

But kind of scary that they are the ones running the WSOP and they are unaware of some of their really significant problems.

They shouldn't need a panel to tell them that changing a shootout format after the tournament has already started or that marked cards in a $50k tournament are NOT GOOD.


I hope your efforts succeed and you are able to get places with them.
But they seem to be fouling lots of stuff up and I am skeptical.


Was this the same Brian Wilson who won a bracelet last year I think at PLHE (wore a Chicago Cubs baseball cap and a Hawaiian shirt I believe) or this is a different Brian Wilson?

[Kevmath]

I think it's that Brian Wilson. He was trying to settle Harry down after the blowup on Sunday.

[FakeKramer]

Harry, it's nice having you involved in poker. It was also nice playing at your first (and, to your disappointment, only) table in that massive $1k event a week or so ago (we were sitting in the very corner of the room). I was the kid to your left with orange hair.

Anywho; more to the point, good post and you've got me right there along with you hoping for an optimistic future.

[dlk9s]

[ QUOTE ]
14.95/each retail, about 8.00 bulk.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? You're not thinking of the plastic Copag's, are you? If they're going to spend that much on those cards, they might as well buy Bee decks for $1.

[uclabruinz]

Awesome Harry. Thanks.

Another big issue to me is playing 11-handed deep into events. I raised a stink about it in the huge $1k event when we were down to about 600 or 700 and TD said "we need the room for sats." Um, yeah. Those of us playing for a bracelet should play 11-handed to make room for sats. Okay.

[WSOPChump]

the 11 handed thing is aweful.
thats only 7 extra tables at that stage of the tournament.
i think andy bloch complained at got them to go 9 handed for second day of main event last year.

[MicroBob]

wow. i am really pretty surprised they kept it at 11-handed with only 600-700 left. that's really pretty terrible.

why do all their bad decisions keep surprising me?

[BaldEaglePkr]

There are plenty of highly trained and quality dealers available. None of those dealers are willing to work for $300 a day or less. Especially since they can make more, be more relaxed, and have no travel expenses at their other job options.

If they want to up the dealer quality, get them to up the dealer pay and treat them as respected members of the team. Not the lowest form of life.

PS: It was WAY WAY less than $300 a day until recently... But even $300 a day to pay your expenses of travelling/etc is not worth it for the top dealers. You want the best dealers.. pay them. Otherwise, you get break-ins ealing 400/800 BOT

[ QUOTE ]
Nice job, Harry.

Marked cards, & poorly trained dealers/floor people would have to be in the top tier.

"Poker rate" rooms being more expensive than "just walked in rate" rooms perhaps in a lower tier, along with sufficient starting stacks, blind increases, level times.

As for the juice, well, Rome ain't built in a day.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Koumari Boy]

And a follow up comment from Jeffrey Pollack posted on the Hendon Mob Forum

Jeffrey Pollack here...

I want to thank today's meeting participants -- Harry, Tony, Brian, and John -- for taking the time to speak with us. I think it was a very productive session.

There were two key outcomes, from my perspective. First, we are going to organize an international players committee. Everyone who attended today's meeting has been invited to help us organize this group and serve as founding members. If anyone has suggestions for agenda topics, please make sure Harry has them or send them to me at jplt@harrahs.com.

Second, we are going to find ways to communicate more effectively with all players in the WSOP. We absolutely have to do a better job here and we will. If you have specific suggestions, please let me know.

As a first step in this regard, we are creating a "Player Services" desk at the WSOP. This desk will be operational within the next 48 hours and staffed by a customer service representative whenever there is tournament play. You will be able go to this desk with any question or concern about tournament operations. We will "put the word out" loudly to all players when the desk is opened up this week.

In addition, if you have an issue or question at the tournament, everyone should feel free to reach out directly and immediately to Bob Daily, the WSOP Tournament Director. He is on site every day and is your best "real time" resource.

Finally, I want everyone to know that we appreciate the passion and enthusiasm you show for the WSOP. Some very good points have been raised and I invite everyone to be part of the solution and help us serve you better.

Best regards,

Jeffrey

[burningyen]

One comment from my experience last year which I gather still hasn't been addressed this year: they need to make the official tournament clock easily visible from all parts of the room.

[grdred944]

I'm glad to see Harry taking the lead in this. I'm disappointed at the current player's committee (advisory panel, whatever) and am skeptical about adding an international players committee layer. This is typical corporate b.s.

The solution is to do the job right, treat your players right (like Vegas used to), and don't change your mind midstream. But, I'm willing to take a wait and see attitude.

[Koumari Boy]

Following on from a meeting I had along with three fellow players and some high ranking officials at The Rio I sent the follwing e-mail to Jeffrey Pollack last Friday (28 July).

A week has now passed and I have yet to receive a formal reply but Jeffrey Pollack did verablly tell me that he was reluctant to deal with the WPA and that he wanted a direct interaction with players last weekend.


Dear Mr Pollack,



Some time has now elapsed since our meeting and I have now had an opportunity to meet and discuss matters extensively with a number of fellow players and indeed a few other interested parties.



Whilst your comments and suggestions were warmly received there was unanimous agreement that perhaps the best way forward may not be to have the formation of an International player panel/committee. This is not to say that international players do not have special needs but rather, like so many others, we are but one small piece of the overall picture.



Despite many of us wishing to each have an individual input, it was felt that perhaps this could lead to a situation of confusion and chaos whereby there would be too many individualistic or smaller similar groups competing with each other to have their say and influence. As such there seems little point in having a Player Consultation Panel (as you have at present) along with an International Players Committee/Group.



It would appear, therefore, that a more unified approach would perhaps better suit us all including Harrah’s and The WSOP.



Many players (including myself) are members of the rapidly expanding WPA (World Poker Association) whose aim is to establish a body that can represent and express the views of a number of sections within the poker community (Staff, Players, Tournament Directors, Organizers etc. etc.). Absolutely no individual, group or body is excluded from joining and it is felt strongly that such an organization can help us bring together the various interested parties who can collectively work together towards a common goal of taking poker forward into the future for the benefit of us all.



It is my express wish, along with all the other players and persons with whom I have consulted over the past week or so, that you liaise and consult with The WPA on all matters relating to the development of The WSOP and that you acknowledge them as our vehicle for communicating our comments and concerns to your organization.



This should prove mutually beneficial to us all as it will firstly enable you to deal with a solitary body that can represent more than just the players within the poker community and also enable the players to communicate their views to yourself in a unified, efficient and effective manner. It would also help to get a consensus view and avoid the current impression of a few having a disproportionate say.



Best Regards

Charidimos (Harry) Demetriou

[Koumari Boy]

Well today in the Main Event they seem to be at it again (well this is what I have heard and await confirmation).

They stated that play would continue until there were 600 players left and once they got down to 590 they decided to add an extra half a level and then made it an extra one and a half levels.

This is just another example of taking the players for granted and cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

Apparently when enquiries were made about these late changes to todays schedule it was pointed out that Howard Greenbaum had taken this decision.

[Koumari Boy]

[ QUOTE ]
Well today in the Main Event they seem to be at it again (well this is what I have heard and await confirmation).

They stated that play would continue until there were 600 players left and once they got down to 590 they decided to add an extra half a level and then made it an extra one and a half levels.

This is just another example of taking the players for granted and cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

Apparently when enquiries were made about these late changes to todays schedule it was pointed out that Howard Greenbaum had taken this decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently when Howard Greenbaum was asked about why he made this decision to extend the day 3 play by 1.5 levels his answer was:

"It was ESPN who made the decision"

Make of that answer what you will but I can't believe ESPN have that much power. They may have requested it for exaample but someone within the WSOP set up must have surely ordered it.

[KKsuited]

Harry, I understand most of your points, but why does it matter if they played down further than 600 players? It's that actually good?

If they get to 600 faster, then the remaining days won't be as long. The final table goes until 4am or something. If Wednesday night can finish up early, then the final table can start at a decent time and maybe finish at a decent time.

The players, TV people, and radio people (for different reasons) probably don't want the final table to go all night.

I agree with all of your points, but not this one.

[sketchy1]

the point is they are making numerous changes on the fly and not even asking a single player what they think of it. granted when the field is still so large, no formal vote can really be held. however, i think it's important to stick to a schedule. that's one thing johnny grooms did--he started every tournament on time (or pretty close) and always ran it the length he said. this year the ME has been pretty unpredictable, each day has run diff lengths.

one thing i still don't understand is how they ran each day 1 (a-d) a diff length. one day ran so many minutes into level # x, and one day ran a diff number of minutes (at least this is my understanding--PLEASE correct me if i am wrong. i work at the rio, but work days and have no real idea other than heresay). that means players were combining with a different number of minutes played. one day players might have played 13 hours, 30 minutes, one day players might have played 12 hours, 58 minutes.

that seems very odd. IMO, a tournament schedule should be set in STONE ahead of time and ONLY changed if ALL parties agree. like in reno a year ago for the WSOPC, they asked players if they wanted to play from 27 to 9 when they ended play extremely early and there was bad weather outside. they asked all 27 players and all 26 agreed, with phil ivey single-handedly deciding against.

this is important IMO. almost as important as any other issue brought up.

[Kevmath]

Taking a quick run thru the Card Player updates, the Day 1's ended within about 20 minutes of each other. I'm sure each of the days didn't start exactly at noon, but pretty close to it.

The confusion may be because Day 1A+B had about 130 players less than days 1C+D.