secure your privacy! (technical response to possible ban)

[MrBrightside]

I think I'm going to get one of these anyway. You can pay for a commercial proxy service. All of your net traffic goes thru here. According to pokerstars FAQ, it looks like they, at least, support proxies.

Anway, here's a directory of pay ones (note: there are free ones, but I wouldn't trust them to stay up. You'd probably have to constantly switch and it would be a pain).

Google directory of proxy services (http://www.google.com/Top/Computers/Internet/Proxying_and_Filtering/Hosted_Proxy_Services/)

I'm looking for one that is offshore. Like I said, given our cuurent political climate (wiretapping, et al), I've been thinking of doing this anyway.

[ArtMonkRules]

Im not very technical... but do these proxy severs give me a way to get around any potnetial goverment access blockages?

[MrBrightside]

well, as far as the ISP is concerned you are connected to the proxy server (that's why it should be overseas, ideally). Your connection to that server is encrypted. So the ISP sees encyrpted traffic to the proxy server. They have no idea what the traffic contains or it's destination. The proxy server then connects to netteller, poker sites etc. If that server is outside the U.S., even a court order for U.S. ISP's to not allow connection to gambling sites would matter.

Until recently, I assumed that poker sites would NOT support connection through a proxy server (there are reasons not to. For instance, I could have a second account on a second computer using a proxy server and collude myself). However, according to this link on pokerstars web site (http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/download/faq/) they support proxy connections. I'm not sure about other sites (party's site search doesn't work at the moment).

As a poster pointed out, the U.S. could force ISPs to block connections to the proxy server themselves. But this would be a neverending battle. New ones would pop up all the time. And actually, you could use a private proxy server (have a non-u.s. 2+2 poster run one on his home computer with donations -- a decent proxy server software might cost some money).

This is how people inside China access sites the government doesn't want them to see. There are actually a fair number of free services, but they tend to be eratic.

[ArtMonkRules]

Its good that we have the citizens of China to look to for ways around our increasing government restrictions. Oh well.... the only way they'll get me to stop playing poker is to put me in jail.

[SlapPappy]

Simple yes or no. Could a proxy server allow a way around a possible ISP block of gambling sites?

[Leavenfish]

[ QUOTE ]
Its good that we have the citizens of China to look to for ways around our increasing government restrictions. Oh well.... the only way they'll get me to stop playing poker is to put me in jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bit drastic, isn't it? Why not just move to Nevada?

---Leavenfish

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Simple yes or no. Could a proxy server allow a way around a possible ISP block of gambling sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but this issue goes beyond that. Degenerate skilled players like ourselves will go to these extremes. Degenerate addicts will as well. Joe Fish will not.

[Fishlips_Jones]

Where will Joe Fish go?

[DrewOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
Where will Joe Fish go?

[/ QUOTE ]

He will go do something else with his free time besides play poker online. He will pick up whatever the next trendy activity is and do that instead of happily donating his money to me.

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
Joe Fish will not.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that cut and dry. If the information is made easily available for the average player to access on how to get around certain blocks, at least some will. Definitely not all and probably not most, but certainly a non negligible amount.

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where will Joe Fish go?

[/ QUOTE ]

He will go do something else with his free time besides play poker online. He will pick up whatever the next trendy activity is and do that instead of happily donating his money to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this comes down to what the definition of “Joe fish” is vs someone that is more committed to playing. If we're defining it as neither a pro/semi-pro nor a future GA member, then I think some of those people will go through the effort of continuing to play what they consider a fun pastime.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Simple yes or no. Could a proxy server allow a way around a possible ISP block of gambling sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, but this issue goes beyond that. Degenerate skilled players like ourselves will go to these extremes. Degenerate addicts will as well. Joe Fish will not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I don't think that's really the problem.. Party and Stars could easily bundle some proxy software right into their software, or streamline it so any non-technical dummy can do it easily. It's trivial to get around any firewall type blocks to IP's. That's not gonna be the hard part. I think the US gov't knows it and won't even bother pursuing it.

The REAL problem will be getting your money in and out of the sites. US banks will stop processing ACH transactions with Neteller/IGMPay/etc, and they won't honor any checks the sites cut to you. If this bill passes, people will build up massive inaccessible bankrolls online (me included). I'll figure it out later, when it gets worth it.. Get a foreign bank account, take a trip to Europe, whatever.. Not Joe Fish though,

THIS will stop American Joe Fish from playing online, not any type of ISP blocks.. The games might dry up a little, but there will still be German Jöe Fisch, Norwegain Jøe Fich, French Joé DeFishé, and so on..

[otctrader]

[ QUOTE ]
The REAL problem will be getting your money in and out of the sites. US banks will stop processing ACH transactions with Neteller/IGMPay/etc, and they won't honor any checks the sites cut to you. If this bill passes, people will build up massive inaccessible bankrolls online (me included).

[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK the legislation does not specifically block repatriation of funds; I can't imagine the government would object to you cashing out into a U.S. account so long as its taxed.

[Quanah Parker]

Thanks to my love of poker and pornography, I'm more computer literate than I ever imagined I would be.

Techno-irony.

[antneye]

There will be any series of combinations of e-merchants you will be able to use.....a deals with gamblers, b and c do not, but a deals with b and c......simply move it around until you find a path to paypal or someone in US. The enforecement attempts will be ridiculous

[Jussurreal]

Poker sites can just start using Western Union and that would easily cure the money in/out problem. It's just a matter of whether they will do that or not.

Also, I don't see how a bank can not honor a check sent to you by an individual from a foreign country just because it's a foreign check. It's not like the check says "Party Poker" on it.

Trust me, the money movement will be the easiest thing to get around.

[guitarizt]

[ QUOTE ]
Simple yes or no. Could a proxy server allow a way around a possible ISP block of gambling sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes but the average poker won't do this. That's the short answer.

[ragecg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its good that we have the citizens of China to look to for ways around our increasing government restrictions. Oh well.... the only way they'll get me to stop playing poker is to put me in jail.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a bit drastic, isn't it? Why not just move to Nevada?

---Leavenfish

[/ QUOTE ]
Because it is illegal there as well to play online.

[Penguin3D]

I like the idea of using a proxy for your connection to the poker sites, and payment processors. But all of the sites I use require a physical address to establish a real money account. With Eurobet waffling, and cancelling the accounts of all American Citizens, I assume because their account included a US address, I wonder if others won't follow. If that happens, it won't matter if you use a proxy, the site will have closed your account for their own protection. We need foreign Snail Mail Proxies. I know that there are mail forwarding services, but I have never received any snail mail from any poker site, except Party, made them send me a check once. All we would need is a physical address outside the US, not mail forwarding, unless it were for the occasional cashout check. But if I recall correctly, too lazy to look it up right now, I beleive mail forwarding services charge about $20/month plus a per piece mailed fee. $240 a year for a proxy address just so the poker sites don't close my account is a bit steep. Any other ideas?

[h11]

I read that Western Union employees tipped off US law enforcement officials about bets with BetOnSports, triggering their CEO's arrest as his plane to Costa Rica had a layover in Texas. So using Western Union MIGHT not be the solution.

[h11]

Someone will want the profits from running a poker site and will run it from a country where doing so is legal, and where there is no extradition treaty with the US which would expose them to being nabbed. They will have economic motivations to make it easy to get around the US laws. Then it becomes a technological struggle - can US players hide their connections with them? One person posting here said that he can find anyone dealing with Poker Site X no matter what sort of trickery they use to avoid him, that there are very sophisticated tools to spot the connections. Others claim that dissidents in China can avoid detection and so too poker players will be able to use similar methods. I don't know which is correct, but I would bet on evasion being possible. Because the cost of tracking down the traffic would be high and law enforcement might feel it is not worth it. But then I suck at poker, so why should I be any better at guessing about computer stuff?

[NapoleonDolemite]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Where will Joe Fish go?

[/ QUOTE ]

He will go do something else with his free time besides play poker online. He will pick up whatever the next trendy activity is and do that instead of happily donating his money to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this comes down to what the definition of “Joe fish” is vs someone that is more committed to playing. If we're defining it as neither a pro/semi-pro nor a future GA member, then I think some of those people will go through the effort of continuing to play what they consider a fun pastime.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me that the sites themselves could even provide information about how to use a proxy server to Joe Fish. The US government has certainly done them no favors, and they aren't bound by US laws. I'm sure there are many ways around the potential law though admittedly I know nothing about them.

[PropPlayer]

I've said this write along, if the US ever goes through with banning online gambling I will move out of the US to start a service. I'll offer proxy subscriptions and offshore bank accounts. For the very serious players moving high dollars I'll help set up with IBCs, Trusts and in some cases foreign citizen ships.

Prohibition did not work for alcohol; I don’t see it working for gambling. It’s simply going to create additional business opportunity that sparks even more offshore activity.
The sports books side of things will provide good opportunity for organized crime outfits in the States to increase their gambling revenues which have to have declined with the internet boom.