Live 6/12

[Lunar Tweak]

pretty sure i played this awful...please help.

UTG is solid, but usually plays higher and isn't paying much attention to the game. MP2 is slightly loose-passive.

UTG raises, MP1 and Mp2 call, I 3 bet in the CO with K /images/graemlins/heart.gifK /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, UTG caps, we all call.

FLOP(4 players, 17.5sb)
J /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

UTG bets, both MP's call, I call.

TURN(4 players, 10.5bb)
J /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, I raise, both call, and i can tell they're not happy with my raise.

River(3 players, 16.5bb)
J /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif3 /images/graemlins/club.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

we all check.

[dano]

I raise that flop. I think in general it makes the hand easier to play on later streets.

Given that UTG capped, I think the turn raise is -EV. You are not winning here more than 33% of the time.

Good river check.

[XmasXmas]

raise the flop.

as played, turn was good.

bet the river, close your eyes, and think really, really hard about UTG having AKs, fold when you get c/r'd /images/graemlins/laugh.gif if it were HU, i'd be more inclined to check. multiway, missing out on two bets would suck. having the Kh makes me more inclined to bet too.

[Warren Harding]

I would raise the flop and trap the callers. Waiting until the turn to raise for protection is not worth the lost bets becuase the likely turn bettor is first to act, offering no protection. Same goes for waiting until the turn to trap them for a bb instead of a small bet: take advantage of the sure loose calls now, and collect bets on the turn. So, I do not see any advantage in just calling the flop.

I think you missed a value bet on the river, especially given the turn reactions. Bet to be called by lower pair.

[Lunar Tweak]

Results:

UTG K /images/graemlins/spade.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif

MP2 said he had AQ.

appreciate the advice...

my thinking was that if i raise the flop and get 3 bet, i go into call mode, costing 3.5bb to see through river. whereas if i raise the turn and get 3 bet i can safely fold, only costing 2.5bb. any merit to this thought process?

[Warren Harding]

[ QUOTE ]

my thinking was that if i raise the flop and get 3 bet, i go into call mode, costing 3.5bb to see through river. whereas if i raise the turn and get 3 bet i can safely fold, only costing 2.5bb. any merit to this thought process?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not like it becuase:

Any line that that involves raise-folding should be used sparingly, especially against non-passive players, especially in big pots. In a big pot, favor lines that favor showdown with an overpair.

You lose value on the flop, becuase at that point he may have QQ or worse.

You can never quite eliminate hands like AJ, AQ, two high hearts, etc. from villian's range. A good player will raise UTG more than just TT+, AKs, and will sometimes cap with the weaker portions of his range.

Dead money overlay from at least one caller drawing thin.

[Chipspin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

my thinking was that if i raise the flop and get 3 bet, i go into call mode, costing 3.5bb to see through river. whereas if i raise the turn and get 3 bet i can safely fold, only costing 2.5bb. any merit to this thought process?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not like it becuase:

Any line that that involves raise-folding should be used sparingly, especially against non-passive players, especially in big pots. In a big pot, favor lines that favor showdown with an overpair.

You lose value on the flop, becuase at that point he may have QQ or worse.

You can never quite eliminate hands like AJ, AQ, two high hearts, etc. from villian's range. A good player will raise UTG more than just TT+, AKs, and will sometimes cap with the weaker portions of his range.

Dead money overlay from at least one caller drawing thin.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like this logic either. When you have a big overpair, you're really not trying to "save bets"; on the contrary, you want to want to get money in the pot for value.

Raise that flop.

And the way you played it, bet that river.