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JPinAZ
07-12-2006, 06:23 PM
Forgive me if this is a repost. I did a search but didn't find anything.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003114976_danny09.html

[ QUOTE ]
Read this while it's still legal


As most of us toasted liberty and pursued happiness last week, Jim Harvill opened his mailbox and learned these rights are not as unalienable as he thought.

On July 3, Harvill, an affable operations manager for Sprint PCS near Spokane, got the following letter from the publisher of two magazines he has subscribed to for years. "It is with deep regret that we must inform you ... " it read, "we must cancel all subscriptions to Washington State."

The magazines are "Casino Player" — a monthly review of U.S. casinos and hotels — and "Strictly Slots" — a guide to one-armed bandits, video poker and other mechanized means of gambling.

Hardly classic literature. But Harvill liked them. And now he can no longer read them, thanks to a twisted reading of the state's new law against Internet gambling.

The state says placing bets online is against the law. Fine. But the state goes on to say that even writing about Internet gambling in a way that's promotional is "aiding and abetting" an illegal industry.

So now two print magazines consider themselves banned in this state. It's not clear whether the publisher pulled them on his own or was asked to by the state. The letter vaguely cites "new state laws regarding the legality of online gaming."

Mind you, no actual betting occurs via these magazines. People like Harvill buy them just to read about gambling.

"It's completely surreal," Harvill says. "My government is saying there is something I'm not allowed to read. I've lived in this country for 60 years and I can't remember anything like this happening to me before."

Well, it has certainly happened to others. Ask Larry Flynt. But it is almost never allowed to stand. Has to do with all that stuff we heard ad nauseam last week about independence and the freedom to think and speak as we want.

The nation's birthday week was a dark one for the most unruly and inconvenient of our freedoms, expression.

We learned that a high-school band in Everett had been barred from playing "Ave Maria" because the song is too religious. This is as baffling as if an art class were not permitted to study Michelangelo.

And then a Fort Lewis Army officer, who was properly accused of refusing to ship out to Iraq, was inexplicably charged for saying "contemptuous words against the President of the United States."

Lt. Ehren Watada had said the president misled us into a war that, in retrospect, was a mistake. Shocking! Even in the military, how can stating the obvious be a jailable offense?

I realize there are arguments for all these clampdowns. Still, it ought to give us pause that in one Fourth of July week we had two magazines banned in the state, one song muzzled in a school district and a slew of words outlawed in the military.

Would a confident people do this to themselves?

Oh, well. So we can't read up on Internet betting. Students can't play songs about Jesus' mother. Soldiers can't call the president a charlatan.

If we all get really bored, at least we can still burn the flag.

Danny Westneat's column appears Thursday and Sunday. Reach him at 206-464-2086 or dwestneat@seattletimes.com<br />
[/ QUOTE ]

Koller
07-12-2006, 06:28 PM
Soviet Union

Starfish
07-12-2006, 06:36 PM
Quick! Burn the poker books from book stores of Washington too! And Bradburnie was a [censored] writer!

Now I can see more possibilities... Books about evolution, and all that leftist liberal atheist rubish. All must go!

dtbog
07-12-2006, 07:16 PM
Wow, this is absurd.

gaming_mouse
07-12-2006, 07:31 PM
This is disgusting. I cannot believe that is legal.

Uglyowl
07-12-2006, 08:15 PM
If someone said "Name two magazines not allowed in Washington State" a year ago, I would have guessed a NAMBLA and beastiality type magazine.

Magazine about gambling, sheesh, people like to gamble, always have and always will. Our government sucks, well at least the lottery is ok /images/graemlins/confused.gif

DING-DONG YO
07-12-2006, 08:34 PM
When is someone going to the supreme court about this? Banning a magazine is a huge first amendment violation.

Did they ban "high times" too?

LinusKS
07-12-2006, 08:37 PM
Cardplayer is full of affiliate codes to internet sites.

I'd bet dollars to donuts THAT'S the problem - their lawyers said pull the affilate deals or don't send these to WA. They chose to stop mailing to WA.

Talking about gambling isn't illegal anywhere. Going into business with gambling sites (which is what being an affliate is) is something else.

LinusKS
07-12-2006, 08:39 PM
Ding-Dong - if High Times was selling pot through its magazine - and taking a cut of every order - it'd be illegal too.

DING-DONG YO
07-12-2006, 08:42 PM
LinusKS - Good points all.

Ignignokt
07-12-2006, 10:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Cardplayer is full of affiliate codes to internet sites.

I'd bet dollars to donuts THAT'S the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

The Seattle Times carries no affiliate codes. They do publish Daniel Negreanu's syndicated column, in which he recommends online poker as a way to sharpen your game. The Seattle Times has been warned by the WA Gambling Commission.

Gimme my dollars and donuts. Mmmm...donuts...

LinusKS
07-12-2006, 11:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cardplayer is full of affiliate codes to internet sites.

I'd bet dollars to donuts THAT'S the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

The Seattle Times carries no affiliate codes. They do publish Daniel Negreanu's syndicated column, in which he recommends online poker as a way to sharpen your game. The Seattle Times has been warned by the WA Gambling Commission.

Gimme my dollars and donuts. Mmmm...donuts...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong. I think what you're thinking about is an article IN the Seattle times about an affiliate who was warned about his affiliate website.

But if you can point link me and prove me wrong... I'll eat my donuts. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Aytumious
07-12-2006, 11:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cardplayer is full of affiliate codes to internet sites.

I'd bet dollars to donuts THAT'S the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

The Seattle Times carries no affiliate codes. They do publish Daniel Negreanu's syndicated column, in which he recommends online poker as a way to sharpen your game. The Seattle Times has been warned by the WA Gambling Commission.

Gimme my dollars and donuts. Mmmm...donuts...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong. I think what you're thinking about is an article IN the Seattle times about an affiliate who was warned about his affiliate website.

But if you can point link me and prove me wrong... I'll eat my donuts. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003062386_danny15.html

"Gambling officials told me The Seattle Times may be afoul of the law because we print a poker how-to column, "Card Shark," by gambler Daniel Negreanu. He sometimes tells readers to hone their skills at online casinos. And at the end of each column is a Web address, fullcontactpoker.com/news, where readers can comment."

webmonarch
07-12-2006, 11:31 PM
I'm a lawyer. I only say that so people can uderstand where I'm coming from, and not to encourage your flaming me. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

I don't know what these letters say, but it sounds to me like the publisher of the magazine decided to stop sending to Washington, and the state did not mandate it.

If that is the case, the publishers have extraordinarily bad lawyers. Cardplayer (or any other gambling magazine) is no more playing online poker than Playboy is picking up a prostitute.

Now, if the state told the magazine to cancel its subscriptions to Washington residents, now you have a serious and actual First Amendment problem. The state can restrict certain speech in case of overwhelming public need, and limiting materials in private mailboxes is not that.

Washington State is making me want to get licensed there more every day so I can take my swings at some of this garbage.

However, I think this is an ignorant publisher (a) either looking for some publicity, or (b) completely ignornant of the law, rather than a state action.

Hopefully, Card Player and the others have people who understand how this works, and will continue to send your magazines. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

LinusKS
07-12-2006, 11:55 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cardplayer is full of affiliate codes to internet sites.


I'd bet dollars to donuts THAT'S the problem

[/ QUOTE ]

The Seattle Times carries no affiliate codes. They do publish Daniel Negreanu's syndicated column, in which he recommends online poker as a way to sharpen your game. The Seattle Times has been warned by the WA Gambling Commission.

Gimme my dollars and donuts. Mmmm...donuts...

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're wrong. I think what you're thinking about is an article IN the Seattle times about an affiliate who was warned about his affiliate website.

But if you can point link me and prove me wrong... I'll eat my donuts. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003062386_danny15.html

"Gambling officials told me The Seattle Times may be afoul of the law because we print a poker how-to column, "Card Shark," by gambler Daniel Negreanu. He sometimes tells readers to hone their skills at online casinos. And at the end of each column is a Web address, fullcontactpoker.com/news, where readers can comment."

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay. But before I start in on my donuts, I'd like to point out the article was in the Seattle Times, and it was about an affiliate site. And the unnamed officials who said the Times "may" run afoul were contacted by the dude who wrote the column, not the other way around. (And they're wrong wrong, imo, unless the Times starts running affiliate ads in the paper.)

damaniac
07-13-2006, 12:28 AM
I'm not yet a lawyer, and I generally agree.

WRT the First Amendment claim though, there's the possibility of conspiracy/aiding and abbetting liability. Restricting it on 1st grounds is tough if you're trying to claim it presents, for example, a clear and present danger, as it might if they printed state secrets or told people to oppose the draft in time of war. (Is that still the test or has it changed?)

But criminal liability in the aforementioned circumstances can be pretty broad. Providing ads promoting internet poker could be construed as aiding and abetting. I don't think conspiracy would work, since there's no real agreement between anyone (can you have a conspiracy between the publisher and the affiliate, say, to aid and abet internet gambling by publishing promotions for online gambling?).

But even then this is problematic. The legal ground is fuzzy enough, and trying to justify this morally to people is going to be a tough sell. People on juries will be a lot more likely to find broad liability fair if the crime is serious and the defendants look "dirty", even if their direct connection is weak. But getting people for distant links to internet poker, that just isn't going to sit with most people. Judges aren't above seeing things in this light either, so it would be more likely to go down legally, as opposed to just getting nullified or ignored by juries. And finally prosecuters could probably see this and might well just avoid doing anything about it altogether.

Ignignokt
07-13-2006, 01:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Okay. But before I start in on my donuts, I'd like to point out the article was in the Seattle Times, and it was about an affiliate site. And the unnamed officials who said the Times "may" run afoul were contacted by the dude who wrote the column, not the other way around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't matter how it was initiated, the WA Gambling Commission directly told the largest newspaper in the state:

"My suggestion to you is to remove from your paper any advice about online gambling and any links to illegal sites."