Neurotheology explains it all...

[MidGe]

Article in the Independent - UK (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health_medical/article1171389.ece)

This article, and a google search will find over 100 related articles, makes me even more certain that the "rebirth" experience claimed by many is only a delusion that can be induced chemically. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Phil153]

Just because an experience can be reproduced chemically doesn't mean it wasn't real the time it actually happened.

If the soul exists and interacts with the world through our physical mind, then it stands to reason that every state we experience could be reproduced by altering our physical mind.

That said, I agree with you that these mystical types are just whackjobs. This article doesn't add further proof, though.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Just because an experience can be reproduced chemically doesn't mean it wasn't real the time it actually happened.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but it takes away the "well, cheeez, I experienced this incredible event." argument for it's validity. Iow, once the source of the effect is understood ( hormone, limbic, neuronal brain-freez, whatever) then the phenomenom is explained at the 'I experienced it' level and those claiming other causes are faced with the "I believe it came from X, because I wanna" problem.

The experience is produced 'chemically' both times, spirit-bearers need to believe ( without evidence) that there is an outside cause of the experience when they don't sniff the glue. Just as some deep meditators can turn off certain blood flows and create the loss-of-self effect, so other mental experiences can be caused by pieces of cheese or wishful thinking. They'll still come down to chemical/electrical and no external finger needs to reach in as an underlying cause. As the monks teach us, "I wanna experience it" is all the trigger that may be needed.

[madnak]

"A universal mystical experience with life-changing effects can be produced by the hallucinogen contained in magic mushrooms, scientists claim today."

Well, duh.

[MidGe]

They say that there is no difference between drug-induced mystical experiences and the spontaneous religious ones that believers have reported for centuries. They are "descriptively identical".

link (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10390814)

[hmkpoker]

This has to be one of the dumbest studies I've ever read. People were actually paid money to investigate whether mushrooms can provide spiritual insights.

What we really need now is a thorough examination of whether marijuana makes cookie dough taste better, I think the jury is still out on that one.

[ QUOTE ]
For the US study, 30 middle-aged volunteers who had religious or spiritual interests attended two eight-hour drug sessions, two months apart, receiving psilocybin in one session and a non-hallucinogenic stimulant, Ritalin, in the other. They were not told which drug was which.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had to read that about four times before it actually sunk in.

[MidGe]

I was not clear enough, I guess. Even if the subjects knew, the interesting fact from my view point is that drug-induced mystical experiences and the spontaneous religious ones that believers have reported for centuries are "descriptively identical". /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Enough said.

[FortunaMaximus]

[ QUOTE ]
This has to be one of the dumbest studies I've ever read. People were actually paid money to investigate whether mushrooms can provide spiritual insights.

What we really need now is a thorough examination of whether marijuana makes cookie dough taste better, I think the jury is still out on that one.

[ QUOTE ]
For the US study, 30 middle-aged volunteers who had religious or spiritual interests attended two eight-hour drug sessions, two months apart, receiving psilocybin in one session and a non-hallucinogenic stimulant, Ritalin, in the other. They were not told which drug was which.


[/ QUOTE ]

I had to take that about four times before it actually sunk in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahem.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
Ahem.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[LuckOfTheDraw]

[ QUOTE ]
"A universal mystical experience with life-changing effects can be produced by the hallucinogen contained in magic mushrooms, scientists claim today."

Well, duh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just look at the article's headline.

"Magic mushrooms can induce mystical effects, study finds"

This is breaking news, everybody.

[LuckOfTheDraw]

From the article:

[ QUOTE ]
For the US study, 30 middle-aged volunteers who had religious or spiritual interests attended two eight-hour drug sessions, two months apart, receiving psilocybin in one session and a non-hallucinogenic stimulant, Ritalin, in the other. They were not told which drug was which.

One third described the experience with psilocybin as the single most spiritually significant of their lifetimes and two thirds rated it among their five most meaningful experiences.

[/ QUOTE ]
Awesome.

[ QUOTE ]
The effects persisted for at least two months. Eighty per cent of the volunteers reported moderately or greatly increased well-being or life satisfaction. Relatives, friends and colleagues confirmed the changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been a while since I gurped a few mushrooms down. Maybe it's about that time, again.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
It's been a while since I gurped a few mushrooms down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that Aphex Twin in your avatar?

Couldn't have been that long /images/graemlins/grin.gif