Effect of new house bill on internet poker?

[vabogee]

hey guys, i'm a total noob when it comes to politics, and I can't make heads nor tails of the obviously informed posts on this forum. Can someone just spell out in layman's terms what exactly this new bill means to the average poker player? Would it be the end? Or just another roadblock?

forgive me if this has been answered 10,000 times, but i couldn't really make much sense of the info swirling around in the newspapers and the forum.

[DavidNB]

Internet gambling will be banned

[Gregg777]

It will be nothing more than another speed bump, like not being able to use credit cards now.

[Bilgefisher]

It will be banned, but there is not a whole lot they can do or will do about it for now. Its to difficult to regulate.

[CitiMan]

The House vote will not effect the legality of online gambling. Just because the House approves some bill doesn't make it law, at least for now. It will still have to go through the Senate.

[vabogee]

[ QUOTE ]
It will be nothing more than another speed bump, like not being able to use credit cards now.

[/ QUOTE ]

i hope that's the case. thanks for the responses.

[astrodon]

What 'house bill' are you talking about?
[ QUOTE ]

Its to difficult to regulate.


[/ QUOTE ]

For one thing law enforcement would have to get a 'pen & trace' court order to monitor your internet usage - these are difficult to get even for real and important reasons. Of course there is no organization in the world better at 'black hat hacking' than the US Gov't. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[PantherZ]

[ QUOTE ]
Would it be the end? Or just another roadblock?

[/ QUOTE ]

It wouldn't be the end.

People who are serious about playing would still find ways to transfer the money back and forth. They would then be playing against other serious players.

[guids]

what are the chances this bill will be passed?

[CitiMan]

[ QUOTE ]
what are the chances this bill will be passed?

[/ QUOTE ]

In the House? Very good.

[Aytumious]

I'd say its a near lock to pass the House.

[donkinator]

should i be concerned about cashing out my account before the house passes the bill or are we still too far away from anything to worry about?

[mrhat187]

Bills pass the house and senate all the time big whoop. Did you pay attention in civics class? Good lord what is this nation coming too, this bill would have to be picked up by a senator, go through senate committee then be brought up before the senate for a vote. THEN, once approved it would have to be brought before the president and signed into law.

Btw they tried to ban gambling before, Clinton went down to the committee and told them not to even bother discussing it because he would never sign it. All of these needs to occur before the end of the senate session. Which is Oct 6th. Sounds like alot of time? Senate doesn't work the month of August. So that leaves about 6 weeks for a senate bill to get through.......nearly impossible.

[mrhat187]

Think about this how long have we known about 4411? Months and its just not coming to a vote........Gee I wonder how long it will take in the senate

[StarlightCoast]

Get the Neteller debit card and no matter what they do you can have your money from your poker account within an hour. Assuming you used neteller to deposit in the first place.

[Mr_Pathetic]

I read somewhere that Goodlatte has had this bill going since 1998. That should put things in context. The bill has changed names but has made it out of committee before and still failed. There is hope. I think the enforcement of this will go down like filesharing if it does pass. I do not see many companies wanting to give information up so easily after the outrage with the NSA and the phones.

http://www.house.gov/goodlatte/bobs%20bills%20109/internet%20gambling/nethistory109.htm

[SlapPappy]

[ QUOTE ]
It will be nothing more than another speed bump, like not being able to use

[/ QUOTE ]
If thats the case I already cannot use either of my 2 credit cards for gambling transactions.

[Shakes]

I think this would affect more than just credit cards. I think IGM Pay would be affected also, as, if I've read the details of the bill correctly, banks would no longer accept transactions from it. Neteller would likely not be affected.

[TruePoker CEO]

If this language makes it into law, any online player in the US, which is about 80% of some very large sites' markets, will be blocked from using any financial services to get or send money. If you think that this would not include sending money via Neteller, then you are fooling yourself.

The illegality stigma will kill US player participation in online poker games, regardless of whether some such players will seek to continue to play.

Poker is VERY different than sportsbetting or online casinos in that a site needs a mass of players to offer games.

As for the "new house bill", its passage alone will not mean anything, unless a similar bill is introduced and passed by the Senate.

We will see Wednesday whether HR4411 passes the House. If it does, I am urging ANYONE who is going to the WSOP to call or stop by Senator Harry Reid's local office to explain that you and 8,000 other online poker players are visiting in Las Vegas BECAUSE of Online Poker.

Make it a point to ask the WSOP information booth/Harrahs for the Reid number and address.

(Senator Reid is the Minority Leader, and is very knowledgable about the gaming industry and regulation. Express that the AGA bill to "study" the issue is preferred to gutting online poker, which has brought together 8,000+ players for an $80,000,000 tournament in Las Vegas in the middle of the Summer. An active Minority Leader can do a lot to bottle up newly introduced legislation for the rest of this Senate term.)

Truepoker CEO

[Lucky]

[ QUOTE ]
If this language makes it into law, any online player in the US, which is about 80% of some very large sites' markets, will be blocked from using any financial services to get or send money. If you think that this would not include sending money via Neteller, then you are fooling yourself.

The illegality stigma will kill US player participation in online poker games, regardless of whether some such players will seek to continue to play.

Poker is VERY different than sportsbetting or online casinos in that a site needs a mass of players to offer games.

As for the "new house bill", its passage alone will not mean anything, unless a similar bill is introduced and passed by the Senate.

We will see Wednesday whether HR4411 passes the House. If it does, I am urging ANYONE who is going to the WSOP to call or stop by Senator Harry Reid's local office to explain that you and 8,000 other online poker players are visiting in Las Vegas BECAUSE of Online Poker.

Make it a point to ask the WSOP information booth/Harrahs for the Reid number and address.

(Senator Reid is the Minority Leader, and is very knowledgable about the gaming industry and regulation. Express that the AGA bill to "study" the issue is preferred to gutting online poker, which has brought together 8,000+ players for an $80,000,000 tournament in Las Vegas in the middle of the Summer. An active Minority Leader can do a lot to bottle up newly introduced legislation for the rest of this Senate term.)

Truepoker CEO

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi TruePokerCeo,

Thanks for weighing in. Worst case scenario, obviously many, if not most U.S. players would stop playing, which would be terrible for the games.

But, for pros in U.S., would it be possible to set up another bank account offshore, send money from pokersite to neteller to Swiss account, then to U.S. bank account? Is this the road most players could take if this unfolds badly?

[TruePoker CEO]

"Is this the road most players could take if this unfolds badly?"

Most players ? No way.

I am not giving legal advice, or addressing the ISP provisions, simply pointing out that the vast majority of US casual players would never bother to take the steps you suggest.

Your suggestion, however wishful, ignores the economic reality of poker games. In any event, it is NOT so easy to open up a foreign bank account, AND, there is an existing Treasury regulation which requires it to be reported by a US holder.

[Lucky]

[ QUOTE ]
"Is this the road most players could take if this unfolds badly?"

Most players ? No way.

I am not giving legal advice, or addressing the ISP provisions, simply pointing out that the vast majority of US casual players would never bother to take the steps you suggest.

Your suggestion, however wishful, ignores the economic reality of poker games. In any event, it is NOT so easy to open up a foreign bank account, AND, there is an existing Treasury regulation which requires it to be reported by a US holder.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely, most players would not play and games would get much worse, pros would have to drop down to find beatable games, etc. I'm just wondering what would happen, no way are people just going to give up and get some low paying job. There has to be way to still get money from site to U.S. player for those who continue.

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say its a near lock to pass the House.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the House is a bunch of idiots who want to pass some window-dressing in order to look good in an election year.

Passing the Senate is another thing entirely - their job is often to keep the House's bonehead crap from becoming law, and 2/3 of them aren't up for reelection.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd say its a near lock to pass the House.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the House is a bunch of idiots who want to pass some window-dressing in order to look good in an election year.

Passing the Senate is another thing entirely - their job is often to keep the House's bonehead crap from becoming law, and 2/3 of them aren't up for reelection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although, Sen. Kyl is up for re-election, which could have both positive and negative effects.

[va1halla]

WE the sheeple will probably be butt raped by are boneheaded congress; and I worry the senate may streamline this bill afterwards.

[Uglyowl]

[ QUOTE ]
which has brought together 8,000+ players for an $80,000,000 tournament in Las Vegas

[/ QUOTE ]

Along with the friends and family who went as well. The airlines should be thankful as well.

[triviaguru]

There will still be plenty of donkeys from Sweden, etc, to keep the games good.

[jws43yale]

I have some House contacts and I will get in touch with them a little later and provide more complete details on the resolution, etc.

[psuasskicker]

I don't have a clue how this will impact Neteller. Why would you need to set up a foreign account and then go through Neteller rather than:
your US account <---> Neteller <---> poker site
?

Didn't people think it would be a disaster when credit cards were blocked? Sure did a lot to stop the growth...

I'm not saying it won't hurt it. But I also don't think it'll kill it off nearly as much as some people seem to think it will. IGM and Neteller are I believe the two biggest ways to get money into the big sites. It shouldn't take much to get a majority of the IGM'ers over to Neteller if that's what it comes to...

- C _

[OHFreak]

Of course we could each dedicate ourselves to "sponsoring" say... 10 fishies apiece and guide them through the process of getting their cash onto the poker sites.

[Melchiades]

Worst case scenario, when will this bill pass and start getting enforced? When will our beloved american fish jump dissapear?

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
Worst case scenario, when will this bill pass and start getting enforced? When will our beloved american fish jump dissapear?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think that the current fish will disappear because of the law; they will last as long as they're money does. I think that if the bill becomes a reality, though, it will significantly impede additional fish from playing poker. And in my opinion, online poker requires a constant flow of new fish to remain profitable.

[NoahSD]

So.. if the senate passes this bill into law, we have to cash out before it goes into affect or else our money'll be stuck on poker web sites?

[donkee12345]

what is the likelihood that internet poker will be done as we know it by the end of this year?

[donkee12345]

Is poker on the internet all but done?

[0evg0]

Is the world ending???

[OHFreak]

Why do all my dates start laughing when I take off my pants?

[sharp63]

I love lamp.

[G-Diddy20]

Why does Samuel L. jackson have a chia pet on his head in Pulp fiction??

[d240t]

[ QUOTE ]
Why does Samuel L. jackson have a chia pet on his head in Pulp fiction??

[/ QUOTE ]

Because a costume guy didn't know the difference between an Afro and a gericurl when he was sent to buy a wig. True story.

[ghostface]

Anyone want some tacos?

[G-Diddy20]

How could someone who designs costumes for a living not know the difference between an ac slater geri curl and a joe dirt mullet? Theres a clear difference...one has grease and is permed and one doesnt.

[PantherZ]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think that the current fish will disappear because of the law; they will last as long as they're money does. I think that if the bill becomes a reality, though, it will significantly impede additional fish from playing poker. And in my opinion, online poker requires a constant flow of new fish to remain profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are three types of poker players: those who don't take it seriously, those who try to take it seriously, and those who are really, really good.

The first group will disappear.

The third group will find ways around this.

If you're in the second group, those last two statements are really bad news for you if you want to continue making any money at this.

[Nyago123]

When I opened my FullTiltPoker account some time ago, my credit card companies all rejected the charges anyway, so I went the Neteller route.

Reading over the text of HR 4411, it seems to me that this bill if it were already law would've had no effect on my transaction anyway. It makes acceptance of payment instruments illegal (which has no effect on FTP because it is not in the US) and it make use of payment instruments illegal. Well, Visa and MC already rejected my attempted transactions so there's no fundamental difference there (other than I wasn't worried that Visa was gonna report me to the Feds), but I suppose makes my use of Neteller (not the transfer from Visa to Neteller) to fund my account illegal... except that they can't bust Neteller anyway (again, offshore) and they'd have to be watching me in order to bust me.

If the US government has that kind of time to watch me, they'd probably have better +EV doing so if they simply caught me every time I merged onto the freeway, because I can guarantee you I'm not obeying the speed limit either.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Bills pass the house and senate all the time big whoop. Did you pay attention in civics class? Good lord what is this nation coming too, this bill would have to be picked up by a senator, go through senate committee then be brought up before the senate for a vote. THEN, once approved it would have to be brought before the president and signed into law.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, any Senate version (if passed) would almost certainly be different than the House version, so it would have to go back to a committee to wrangle over the differences, then if they came to agreement it would have to pass the House and Senate again, THEN the Prez would have to sign it into law, THEN the waiting period (if any) before the legislation took effect would have to expire.

And by that time I'll probably be doing something else for a living anyway. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Uglyowl]

I would probably get rid on my Comcast internet as well. There is only so much porn to look at. No other need to spend $40+/month.