Actual impact of Protesters on Vietnam War Effort?

[Jeffmet3]

Do you think the escalating protests against the Vietnman War really affect the way that the US formulated and impletemented its policies?

When looking back at the way the events played out, would you attribute the failure of the US' efforts in the Vietnam War to ineffective management, and a lack of the decisiveness to fight this war full-throttle (follow McArthur's advice and invade China)

or

Would you place the blame on the liberal anti-war movement that essentially handicapped the government and led to the government essentially leaving thousands of American soldiers in a perilous situation

[bisonbison]

Well, LBJ declined the chance to run for office in 68 due to internal dissension in the Party, so, uh, yeah.

[madnak]

What is the specific purpose of protesting? I mean, picketing and public rallies and so forth. I can understand letters to newspapers and congressmen, etc. But I've never really understood what utility gathering in a park and waving signs can have.

Based on my understanding of history, it really does have an impact. So I'd like to know exactly what it is. Does a politician look out the window and see people gathered in front of his building and say, "hmm, I had better change my policy?" What are the logistics of how a situation goes from public protest to policy change? Is it media-oriented? Is it a matter of explicit versus implicit social pressure? Does it allow protesters to strengthen their social connections?

[guesswest]

The protests were significant - how significant is entirely impossible to judge. As far as McArthur on China goes, had his advice been followed, especially as far as the nucleur option goes, the result IMO would have been godawful carnage and certain defeat.

[atrifix]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the escalating protests against the Vietnman War really affect the way that the US formulated and impletemented its policies?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

"There must be no weakening of the will that would prolong the bloody conflict. Peace will come of that response, of our unshakable and our untiring resolve, and only of that. The peace of Asia and the peace of America will turn on it. I do not believe that we will ever buckle. I believe that every American will answer now for his future and the future of his children. I believe he will say, "I did not retreat when the going got rough. I did not fall back when the enemy advanced and things got tough, when the terrorists attacked, when the cities were stormed, the villages assaulted and the people massacred."-Lyndon Johnson, February 27, 1968

"There is no need to delay the talks that could bring an end to this bloody war . . . We are prepared to move immediately toward peace through negotiations. So, tonight, in the hope that this action will lead to early talks, I am taking the first step to deescalate the conflict. We are reducing--substantially reducing--the present level of hostilities, and we are doing so unilaterally and at once."-Lyndon Johnson, March 31, 1968
[ QUOTE ]
When looking back at the way the events played out, would you attribute the failure of the US' efforts in the Vietnam War to ineffective management, and a lack of the decisiveness to fight this war full-throttle (follow McArthur's advice and invade China)

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[ QUOTE ]
Would you place the blame on the liberal anti-war movement that essentially handicapped the government and led to the government essentially leaving thousands of American soldiers in a perilous situation

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know. Blame for what?

[atrifix]

[ QUOTE ]
What is the specific purpose of protesting? I mean, picketing and public rallies and so forth. I can understand letters to newspapers and congressmen, etc. But I've never really understood what utility gathering in a park and waving signs can have.

Based on my understanding of history, it really does have an impact. So I'd like to know exactly what it is. Does a politician look out the window and see people gathered in front of his building and say, "hmm, I had better change my policy?" What are the logistics of how a situation goes from public protest to policy change? Is it media-oriented? Is it a matter of explicit versus implicit social pressure? Does it allow protesters to strengthen their social connections?

[/ QUOTE ]

It is more an issue of general political feeling, media coverage, etc. Each indvidual picket isn't terribly effective, but the soldiers get word of it, they begin to feel the same way, and so on. The effects are difficult to predict.

There would not have been nearly the same level of influence had the protests been much smaller and remained contained. The reason for the U.S. defeat in Vietnam was that the soldiers began to feel sympathetic toward the anti-war movement, and so there were mutinies.

[Cyrus]

the Lounge.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the escalating protests against the Vietnman War really affect the way that the US formulated and impletemented its policies?

When looking back at the way the events played out, would you attribute the failure of the US' efforts in the Vietnam War to ineffective management, and a lack of the decisiveness to fight this war full-throttle (follow McArthur's advice and invade China)

or

Would you place the blame on the liberal anti-war movement that essentially handicapped the government and led to the government essentially leaving thousands of American soldiers in a perilous situation

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jeffmet3]

[ QUOTE ]
the Lounge.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think the escalating protests against the Vietnman War really affect the way that the US formulated and impletemented its policies?

When looking back at the way the events played out, would you attribute the failure of the US' efforts in the Vietnam War to ineffective management, and a lack of the decisiveness to fight this war full-throttle (follow McArthur's advice and invade China)

or

Would you place the blame on the liberal anti-war movement that essentially handicapped the government and led to the government essentially leaving thousands of American soldiers in a perilous situation

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry, which forum is the lounge?

If possible, I'd really like to hear your response Cyrus. There are a bunch of highly educated posters here and I'm interested in picking their brain a little on this subject

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm sorry, which forum is the lounge?



[/ QUOTE ]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=quiet

[mindflayer]

here is a funny analogy..
My wife is changing the clothes of one of our young children.. they dont want to be changed, he fights.
he uses 100% of his energy and my wife who is much bigger of course uses 15%, which is JUST a little more than the value of our childs 100%. Our child sees that once in a while that he can escape or really slow down my wife then he continues to use his 100% energy. Result is eventally the child gets changed after 10 minutes of "fighting" .. grumpy wife.. tired etc.

Next time I change the child.. he starts struggling and uses 100% energy... I use 50%, WAY more than necessary for the first 10 Seconds.. When he sees that he has NO chance for escape or to win, he immediately stops struggling and gets changed... Total time 2 minutes.

This seems to be the difference in the current Bush war and the old Bush war. Sadam saw he could never win a conventional war so he gave up right away. Now the Iraqis see that they can kill a few Americans in a street war or by car bombing etc.. then they will continue with 100% effort.