Question for card counters on the subject of heat

[Double Down]

I have now stayed at the Wynn twice now, both on offers in the mail for free nights. I have also played a lot of BJ there, from the $25 level all the way to playing the $100 DD game and spreading 1-4.

ok, so last time I was there, it was around 5am and I was playing the $100. I was only up about 300 after 20 minutes when about halfway through the deal (about a deck in) the pit boss says to the dealer, "Wait. Stop dealing." He comes over to me, and very politely says, very sorry, but I am no longer allowed to play blackjack. I may play any other games, but no more bj.

This was the first time I've ever gotten backed off, but it didn't bum me out too bad. The boss was very cool about it, not a dick at all. So my question is this:

I'm going back to Vegas next week. I like playing at the Wynn. It's a great place, the dealers and pit bosses are very nice, it's a good game, and the drinks are pretty strong. I count cards when I play bj, but when I go to Vegas, I'm just looking to have fun and I see the fact that I am making money in the long run as a bonus.
Truth is, I wouldn't mind just flat betting $25 at the Wynn. By my calculations, if I received just 1 free drink an hour, I'm playing an even game.

So what I am considering doing is going to the Wynn, finding a table, but before playing, talking to the pit boss, telling him what I just said, that I'm just looking to play some bj and have a few free drinks. I'm not trying to make some big score, I'm just a kid who bought a book on bj. As a sign of my faith, I'm willing to flat bet $25.

Is this a horrible idea?? Should I just sit down and hope that I was never put in the system? Just not play bj there? I really wouldn't want to get barred from the Wynn, I really dig the vibe there.
I figure if I explain the whole bj situation the worst he could do is say "no." Please tell me your thoughts.

[cardcounter0]

Absolutely the worst idea I have ever heard.

The pit boss is there to 'protect' the games. He gets paid and brownie points to back off counters. No matter how minor or unprofitable a counter is, if he can tell his boss he backed one off, good for him.

Your idea is similar to me walking up to a red neck cop, and saying, Hey man, I just want to smoke a little weed, I promise I will just sit here in the corner, puff a joint, and not bother anybody. How many seconds until the cop pats me down and hauls me off to jail?
/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Go back to the Wynn. Play all you want like you always have (just avoid the pit boss who originally backed you off, keep an eye peeled for him). No one remembers you, and if you wait long enough, or don't really look that distictive, the original pit boss will forget about you too.

The most probable worst case scenario is they politely tell you "no more blackjack" again. The most likely scenario is you play like you always had before.

Until that happens, I think I would spread 1-10 on the $100 game instead of 1-4.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[bogey]

not a chance anyone will remember you

[Double Down]

I appreciate the advice. Just to clarify, though, your comparison to telling a cop you're just going to smoke a little weed is different than what I was proposing. I was saying that I would tell the pit boss that I'm not going to count. I'm going to just flat bet $25, and therefore play a losing game.

Also, you said worst case scenario was that they ask me again to not play bj. Wouldn't worst case scenario be that I get barred from the Wynn? Or does one have to get backed off a few times before this happens?

[Annorax]

[ QUOTE ]
I appreciate the advice. Just to clarify, though, your comparison to telling a cop you're just going to smoke a little weed is different than what I was proposing. I was saying that I would tell the pit boss that I'm not going to count. I'm going to just flat bet $25, and therefore play a losing game.

Also, you said worst case scenario was that they ask me again to not play bj. Wouldn't worst case scenario be that I get barred from the Wynn? Or does one have to get backed off a few times before this happens?

[/ QUOTE ]

Worst case is a lot worse than backed off again. Worst case is being put in the Griffin book.

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
I appreciate the advice. Just to clarify, though, your comparison to telling a cop you're just going to smoke a little weed is different than what I was proposing. I was saying that I would tell the pit boss that I'm not going to count. I'm going to just flat bet $25, and therefore play a losing game.

Also, you said worst case scenario was that they ask me again to not play bj. Wouldn't worst case scenario be that I get barred from the Wynn? Or does one have to get backed off a few times before this happens?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would just go and flat bet $25. Don't tell them as that would only draw unnecesary attention to yourself. If you are flat betting $25 you should not attract much attention.

[Double Down]

Thanks to all for all of the advice. One more question: Is it a bad idea to use my players card? When I was backed off, I was using my players card, so is there a chance that after that they put some sort of red flag info on my account?

If I shouldn't use my players card, there's a good chance anyway that I'm going to get carded because I look young, so then does it matter? Please let me know your thoughts.

[Annorax]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks to all for all of the advice. One more question: Is it a bad idea to use my players card? When I was backed off, I was using my players card, so is there a chance that after that they put some sort of red flag info on my account?

If I shouldn't use my players card, there's a good chance anyway that I'm going to get carded because I look young, so then does it matter? Please let me know your thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never, NEVER use a player's card while counting. The pit boss probably noted your card account, and if you're caught playing BJ there again (which I wouldn't do), you're probably looking at a backroom beating, amongst other problems.

[Double Down]

Ok, so given this new info, should I now not play at the Wynn?

What about my original idea of being honest with the pit boss and asking if I may just flat bet?

[cardcounter0]

WOW! What terrible advice.

GO PLAY! Don't worry about it. No one remembers you. If for some weird reason if the Wynn does want to bar you, they will tell you to leave. If you leave, there is nothing they can do. You can come back the next day. If they tell you to leave, then leave. Unless you refuse to leave when asked, the Wynn can't touch you.

Plus, the Wynn doesn't really care about some guy betting $100. Big Deal. You are a tiny tiny fish. No one cares, no one remembers.

RE: The best thing that could possibly happen to you is the Wynn does give you a backroom beating. The last person that got backroomed illegally (no beating, just detained) has collected well over $100,000 in lawsuits. Talk about a "bad beat" Jackpot!

PS. Don't worry about the Griffin book, the Griffin Detective Agency has filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy and is no more. An example of the bad advice you are gettting.

[Shaggy]

Annorax, you're an idiot.

He's not going to get in griffin and he's not going to get his ass beat. Wynn may not even subsribe to Griffin. Griffin declared bankruptcy ya know.

double down,
Play there, be aware of the pit boss that backed you off before. Avoid his pit. Order your drinks. If you notice a hush in the pit that may be directed towards you, casually leave. The worst that will probably happen is they will back you off again. Even if they realize you were backed off before, they probably won't "bar" you unless you are a dick about it.

I would not use my player's card this time around.

-Shaggy

[Double Down]

Appreciate all the advice. Still one query, though. I look young, and I am carded about 90% of the time. If they card me, they'll look me up and see that I have a players card, and so any card counting info that they would have on me by my giving them my players card they'll also have if they look me up by my id, no?
Someone please clarify how this works.

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
Appreciate all the advice. Still one query, though. I look young, and I am carded about 90% of the time. If they card me, they'll look me up and see that I have a players card, and so any card counting info that they would have on me by my giving them my players card they'll also have if they look me up by my id, no?
Someone please clarify how this works.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about the Wynn, but every casion I've been in just cards and looks at your id to verify age -- and then does not do anything with it after that. I would not worry at all about being carded.

[uncleshady]

There's a great deal of misadvice in this thread. I got backed off a game at Binions in 1999 (back when the game was REAL good...conditions that actually existed for the theoretical counting situations in most BJ books...) and I went back 6 months later and didnt get beat up or Griffin'd (lol?) so you can either...

a) Keep playing your way and be damned any consequence
b) Flat bet in a town with a thousands of BJ tables for free drinks. (what?)

[TruckeeSlick]

Assuming this thread isn't a troll I think you need to adopt a more cynical, paranoid worldview if you're going to count...

If you gave them a player card you ARE in the database along with pix from the eye-in-the-sky. Given the whalish money Wynn is hoping to attract he hasn't skimped on the high-tech tracking and face recognition stuff. Groveling for forgiveness would be REALLY naive, pathetic, and futile. The data is almost certainly shared with the other Wynn casinos so I'd avoid BJ there as well.

[Double Down]

But I shouldn't use my players card?

[Annorax]

[ QUOTE ]
PS. Don't worry about the Griffin book, the Griffin Detective Agency has filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy and is no more. An example of the bad advice you are gettting.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what happens when people take a few years off. Don't be like me....

[Shoe]

[ QUOTE ]
But I shouldn't use my players card?

[/ QUOTE ]

Up to you, if they have any notes on you it will be attached to your players card. Either way, be extra careful if and when you do play there again.