legislators

[tsrcess]

as many of you know, the casinos in atlantic city have been closed (despite the fact they are the "golden goose" for nj) because of a political stand-off between the new governor (corzine) and the assembly. aside from being an example of huge stupidity (and the advisability of NOT selecting a non-politician for governor), i think this episode provides insight into the minds of legislators. they simply don't have the same concerns as the average person (closing the casinos has huge negative economic effects to the average person and the local economy). so, when it comes to issues like on-line poker, don't expect them to really understand at any level...they live in their own world....

[spatne]

Actually (and I don't want to start a political debate in this forum) Corzine is in the right, here. NJ must close the budget gap, but the lazy NJ Democratic establishment (and I'm a Dem, so this makes me very sad) wants to take money from state pensions while Gov. Corzine (also a Dem, btw) wants to raise the sales tax.

I'm not thrilled about either scheme, since sales taxes are generally hardest on people who earn the least, but at least Corzine's plan actually solves the problem. Also, if necessities are exempted from sales tax in NJ, it's not so regressive.

Furthermore, to those getting on the Governor:

1) When there is no budget, a shutdown of "non-essential" government services is mandated (I believe) by the state constitution. So this isn't a political ploy by either side.

2) Corzine gave ample warning to the NJ assembly that it was time to pay the bills. Standing his ground is the right thing to do, even if it's painful in the short-term.

[tsrcess]

rumor is that atlantic city casinos will reopen this evening (july 6). who knows? as to whether or not the casinos had to close in the first place, i think the clear answer is "no". those in power can pretty much do as they choose. when someone says the decision is "constitutionally mandated", that is code for "i chose to make this decision for political gain, but, i don't want to take responsibility for it".

[spatne]

Well, you can believe whatever you want, but I don't think you have a very clear understanding of:

a) the current political dynamic in NJ
b) the current budget situation in NJ
c) the roles of the Corzine and Roberts and their respective plans for addressing the budget crisis
d) the fact that without a budget, the state government shuts down. Period. No choice. That's not a political ploy. That's the law.

[Ignignokt]

[ QUOTE ]
the fact that without a budget, the state government shuts down. Period. No choice. That's not a political ploy. That's the law.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 1994 the new Republican congress tried a similar standoff by passing a budget that they knew Clinton couldn't sign (they were upset about the balanced-budget laws he pushed through the year before, so to balance they basically severely cut the programs that were important to him), which would have shut down the government, but it backfired politically and they were forced to compromise.

[tsrcess]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, you can believe whatever you want, but I don't think you have a very clear understanding of:

a) the current political dynamic in NJ
b) the current budget situation in NJ
c) the roles of the Corzine and Roberts and their respective plans for addressing the budget crisis
d) the fact that without a budget, the state government shuts down. Period. No choice. That's not a political ploy. That's the law.

[/ QUOTE ]what is "the law?" the law is whatever someone says it is. often times, the supreme court will rule 5-4 on some issue of "the law." think about it. at the highest level, 5 say the law is this or that. another 4 say the law is something else altogether. one supreme court justice observed (correctly) that the most imortant law or rule was "the rule of 5" (supreme court majority). in nj, the governor (based upon any number of rationales) could have chosen to deem casino control inspectors "essential", and, could have kept the casinos open. he chose not to do that for political gain. i hope people in general will remember. i know i will...

[spatne]

1) The Supreme Court is irrelevant, here. The Governor does not have the same powers, and therefore cannot make decisions to single-handedly invalidate existing laws.

2) The Governor doesn't gain *anything* politically from this. People are pissed, and he knows it. Furthermore, the Governor doesn't "decide" to shut down the government. When there is no budget, the shutdown happens by law. If you want to blame Corzine and some memebers of the assembly for not reaching a compromise in time, that's more reasonable. But you should probably do some reasearch into what the issues are before you start randomly bitching.

More evidence that there is no political gain is that Corzine is in a fight with his OWN PARTY because he thinks he can clean up a corrupt establishment. Everyone involved in this mess is a Democrat, and Corzine is making enemies within his own party because of this. I don't see any slick politicking there.

3)The Governor of any state is not above the law. Corzine could not deem casinos "essential" because they aren't. Essential services are things like state police; essential is not roulette.

Anyway, I think that you and I are going to go in circles about this. Like I said before, this is not the politics forum, so I'll let it go at that. GL at the tables when they open up again.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
i hope people in general will remember. i know i will...

[/ QUOTE ]

history repeats itself. that's the only thing people actually remember.