Shills and proposition players? Any location?

[davidm20202]

I'm working on an online article. It's a Q & A where someone had a question about whether Vegas casinos use shill players and props. In my experience, shills are virtually non-existent these days, while props in Vegas are possible. Usually it's a floor person or dealer sitting in a game.

I have seen full-time props in California.

My questions are these:

1) What other locations employ props and/or shills? Atlantic City? Foxwoods? Washington State? Mississippi? Reno?

2) In California and Nevada, regulations require that prop players are identified if customers ask. Is that true in any of the other locations?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

David

[davidm20202]

Did I post on the wrong forum? Anyone have information on this please?

[Andrew Karpinski]

Actually this forum is reserved for questions about tipping.

[LasVegasMichael]

LOL!

Sorry, can't really help you other then to say that some casinos have the "prop players must be identified upon request" rule, but others simply state that their room does not employ them (Golden Nugget and Mirage do not employ them, among others).

Sam's Town has one. His name is Jimmy. Nice guy.

[Andrew Karpinski]

davidm :

In all seriousness this is absolutely the right forum for your question but I unfortunately do not know the answer. There are undoubtably people here who do know the answer and hopefully they will come along and answer your question.

Best of luck friend.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm working on an online article. It's a Q & A where someone had a question about whether Vegas casinos use shill players and props. In my experience, shills are virtually non-existent these days, while props in Vegas are possible. Usually it's a floor person or dealer sitting in a game.

I have seen full-time props in California.

My questions are these:

1) What other locations employ props and/or shills? Atlantic City? Foxwoods? Washington State? Mississippi? Reno?

2) In California and Nevada, regulations require that prop players are identified if customers ask. Is that true in any of the other locations?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

David

[/ QUOTE ]

1) They do use them (rarely) in Mississippi. Often there they will refer to a dealer playing on the clock as "propping" but it is not the same. Since they are legal in NV I would guess they are at least sometimes used in Reno.


2) In Nevada and Mississippi they must be identified upon request. I am not sure who you think requires they be identified in California as that woud most likely vary from city to city.


I may have been the last person to employ a shill in a Las Vegas poker game in 2001.

[davidm20202]

Thanks for the responses. Some helpful information there. Thanks.

[PokerSlut]

I know several people who are props in the L.A. cardrooms. So far as I know, all the cardrooms in Los Angeles employ props.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

I'm a prop at an LA casino.

Here is the digs... All casino's in LA employ props.

If the prop is "on the clock" and anyone at the table asks the DEALER or a PROP who the "house players/shills/props" are ... we are required to answer.

I always answer with the disclaimer that I'm playing with my own money; the days of players playing "for the house" are gone. That seems to put other players at ease.

Very few "props" work in Vegas, the games are naturally full and the degenerates don't mind playing short handed, so props in LV are negative EV for the casino.

I know several Indian casinos throughout AZ, WA, and the midwest use "hosts". Usually they were a suit and a badge, run chips as needed, and leave the game as soon as it is full.

The one exception to all this is Hawaiian Gardens in LA.

They have silent props that are techinically never "on-the-clock". They usually play 30-60 and above, come and go as they please, and get paid under some type of rack-back arrangement that makes is legal for them NOT to identify themselves as "props/house players". This is fairly rare... but these types of silent props do exist.

[dalston]

At at least one big California cardroom (the Oaks in Emeryville), all props wear a badge identifying themselves around their neck. So you don't even have to ask.

They are all terrible Omaha8 players, as well ;-)

[PokerSlut]

[ QUOTE ]

I know several Indian casinos throughout AZ, WA, and the midwest use "hosts". Usually they were a suit and a badge, run chips as needed, and leave the game as soon as it is full.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have seen the hosts in the NL games here in LA do this as well. Maybe he's not there now, but there used to be a host for the NL games at the Bike when they opened the new addition. Is he gone now?

[Rosencrantz1]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually this forum is reserved for questions about tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL!!!!

[Bicycles_Biatch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I know several Indian casinos throughout AZ, WA, and the midwest use "hosts". Usually they were a suit and a badge, run chips as needed, and leave the game as soon as it is full.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have seen the hosts in the NL games here in LA do this as well. Maybe he's not there now, but there used to be a host for the NL games at the Bike when they opened the new addition. Is he gone now?

[/ QUOTE ]

No... he had a falling out with the Bike...

It's a real shame, his name was Jessy, and he was an amazing host. He would get games started like a champ.

It was a loss to the LA cardrooms when he left to play full time.

[PokerSlut]

Yeah Jessy. Great guy. That's too bad he's not there anymore. BTW, Ron at Hollywood Park who hosts the PL game is a nice guy, too.

[Mygtar]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually this forum is reserved for questions about tipping.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I know several Indian casinos throughout AZ, WA, and the midwest use "hosts". Usually they were a suit and a badge, run chips as needed, and leave the game as soon as it is full.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have seen the hosts in the NL games here in LA do this as well. Maybe he's not there now, but there used to be a host for the NL games at the Bike when they opened the new addition. Is he gone now?

[/ QUOTE ]

No... he had a falling out with the Bike...

It's a real shame, his name was Jessy, and he was an amazing host. He would get games started like a champ.

It was a loss to the LA cardrooms when he left to play full time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jesse Knight was the full time host, I also hosted a couple days a week, pretty much as described in the opening (suit, no badge) paragraph above.

I also left the Bike but there was no falling out.

~ Rick

[Siegmund]

There's a sign on the wall at the Muckleshoot (Washington state) saying that props are allowed by WA state law and will be identified on request.

[DrewOnTilt]

2 years ago I played for a few days at Bay 101 in San Jose, and they used props.

[Andy B]

Canterbury Park in Minnesota will use dealers as proposition players. They do this at the beginning of day shift, with props starting games early in their shift and then dealing as the room fills up. They also do it during graveyard as games break up. There was a guy who was basically a full-time prop for a while, starting the $15/30 hold'em game almost every day, but he did also deal and floor as the need arose.

Proposition players are required to identify themselves as such if anyone asks. Considering how well most dealers play....

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
I know several Indian casinos throughout AZ, WA, and the midwest use "hosts". Usually they were a suit and a badge, run chips as needed, and leave the game as soon as it is full.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not quite right for AZ...

Casino Arizona still has a couple of props/hosts working, but frankly they are not needed and the room does not look to replace any that leave the payroll. At CAZ they are required to wear their gaming badge and do not wear anything other than street clothes. But there are several "dealers" that play full time and might as well be labled props as they virtually never deal a hand.

Fort McDowell has 3+ full time props that are not identified by anything other than their play. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

The other rooms in the area also employ fill time props, but since I rarely play anywhere else I do not have the details on them.

[davidm20202]

For those of you interested, this ran today. It will only be available until midnight Pacific time on today's date, July 26.

http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com/QofDay.cfm?QID=741

Thanks for all your help on this.

[FCBLComish]

Awesome article. Very nice job.