scam at pokerstars

[furious]

Recently I fell victim to a scam at pokerstars. Boxing day while in a tournament an observer asked if anyone was familiar with western union and would like to make a few dollars. I said I do and was told to add him to my msn. He said he wanted to trade $$ at pokerstars for a w.u. money order so he could play in a tournament later that day at foxwoods. I thought about it, and would make $50-60 for an hour of running around. Seemed legit. He transfered the funds to me at pokerstars, and I then made the money order for him. A few days later I was informed by p.stars that my account would be temporarily deactivated because the matter was under investigation as I victim to a scam. I then received a phone call from pstars security saying the money transfer they performed would most likely be reversed and I would be out $740. I then receive an email from security yesterday saying the accounts in question would be permanently closed. I feel if pokerstars reverses the money transaction their site performed they are giving the power to the scammers and their legitimate users have no protection against such scams. It was I who was contacted by the scammer not I who initiated contact. What recourse do I have? Has this happened to anyone else? Otherwise I love their site, their tournaments are awesome and the revemped FPP rewards are fantastic.

[TimM]

If the money in the account came from a fraudulent credit card transaction which got reversed, who should eat the $740 loss? Pokerstars, or the guy who thought he could make an easy $50-60 and only wound up encouraging future scamming attempts?

Don't fall for scams.

[jmillerdls]

It always amazes me the stuff people fall for. If it's too good to be true, it usually is.

[kurosh]

While he was stupid for falling for it, I don't think PS should have taken his money away. It's not his fault. The money should never have been transferred in the first place. What if someone did this with a legitimate looking transaction?

[Punker]

[ QUOTE ]
legitimate users have no protection against such scams

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than not sending money to online strangers you don't know and have never met.

[slickpoppa]

I'm glad to see that evolution still works. I hope that $740 you lost prevents you from reporducing and passing on your stupidity to future generations.

[david050173]

It is his fault. Any random person asking for a western union transfer is a scammer. Paypal and the like do the exact same thing in the case of fraudlant transactions. Think about it for a while and realize how much fraud you could commit if they didn't operate this way. I am sure if you read pokerstars terms of agreement they spell this out.

[ryanghall]

I saw that guy at my tables today asking what Western Union is.

Ryan

[MrBlueNose]

lol retard.

[Pokeraddict]

This is why when I see "Will someone trade me $$$ at Stars for money at Party" I notify the mod. Why should Pokerstars pay you $740 because you fell for an obvious scam?

I hope people read this thread and remember it the next time a scamming post here or somewhere else is made. It certainly is not Pokerstars fault you fell for this and you have no recourse.

NEVER NEVER NEVER trade funds with someone you dont know.

[Cry Me A River]

No, no, no, I heard it's true - If you buy stolen property, the police just let you keep it! They absolutely do not return it to the rightfull owner!!!

No, really!!!

Hey, OP, I have this really cool bridge I'm looking to sell, PM me okay? I'll give you a really great deal!!!

[Bullet_Dodger]

http://www.radiowaves.co.uk/resources/images/696/baby-crying.jpg

[Tony_P]

"Boxing day while in a tournament an observer asked if anyone was familiar with western union and would like to make a few dollars. I said I do and was told to add him to my msn."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Darryl_P]

I think Pokerstars is wrong to allow transfers of uncleared funds. These sites are happy to collect rake on money that might not be legit, but paying it out is another story. A truly ethical site would do the security checks at the time of the deposit.

Having said that, I think Pokerstars is a good site overall with better customer service than anyone.

[citanul]

your protection against scammers is not being incredibly, incredibly stupid.

c

[Bobby Cannoli]

[ QUOTE ]
I think pokerstars is wrong to allow transfers of uncleared funds. These sites are happy to collect rake on money that might not be legit, but paying it out is another story. A truly ethical site would do the security checks at the time of the deposit.

Having said that, I think Pokerstars is a good site overall with better customer service than anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PeteN]

I have to wonder if this is a legit post? If pokerstars is getting illegit money in their system this easy they'd be having more problems than this. I don't think they should be allowing the xfer of uncleared funds, couldn't find anything on their site about this at all except you can do it. I also think it'd be a little dumb to fall for this. Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

[Pokeraddict]

It could take 60-120 days to find out money was on a stolen credit card/bank account etc or otherwise fraudulantly deposited. Would you prefer the poker rooms not allow transfers at all? Thats really the only way to avoid it.

Oh wait, there is another way to avoid it. Not transfering money to people you dont know on the hopes their money is legit.

[Darryl_P]

What if you buy a car from a used car dealer and it turns out it was stolen? Wouldn't the dealer have the responsibility to make sure of that before selling it?

[Pokeraddict]

Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

It used to be every few days someone would try to solicit this scam here, often times with very few posts. The posts were very obvious scams IMO. This is one of the few ways a thief can get money out of the poker room once they get the stolen funds in there.

Fraud is a huge problem for online gambling sites, that is why they appear overly paranoid sometimes.

[PeteN]

[ QUOTE ]
It could take 60-120 days to find out money was on a stolen credit card/bank account etc or otherwise fraudulantly deposited. Would you prefer the poker rooms not allow transfers at all? Thats really the only way to avoid it.

Oh wait, there is another way to avoid it. Not transfering money to people you dont know on the hopes their money is legit.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't disagree however the next step in the argument is how do you know the person you are gambling with has legit funds. Kinda of like pokerspot.

[Darryl_P]

How about using a concept called "cleared" funds and only allowing transfers with that? There are lots of deposit methods besides credit cards.

[BigBluffer]

[ QUOTE ]
What if you buy a car from a used car dealer and it turns out it was stolen? Wouldn't the dealer have the responsibility to make sure of that before selling it?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you buy a used car from a used car dealer, you will be sure to get the title to the car, right? That pretty much assures you that the transaction is legit. If he makes excuses why he doesn't have the title, would you continue with the transaction?

[Darryl_P]

[ QUOTE ]
If he makes excuses why he doesn't have the title, would you continue with the transaction?

[/ QUOTE ]

No of course not, but if I never bothered to check if I got the title and it turned out he didn't have it in the first place, I bet I could sue him and win.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
What if you buy a car from a used car dealer and it turns out it was stolen? Wouldn't the dealer have the responsibility to make sure of that before selling it?

[/ QUOTE ]

The right comparison would be helping someone steal the car and getting caught. Keep in mind this is not Poker Stars doing. They have nothing to do with the fact the OP (unknowingly it appears) helped a fraudster try to move money off Stars. Many of you seem to be missing this point. I feel sure they have flagged the OP's account as well to make sure this does not become a habit.

OP fell for old scam, it sucks but I bet they will not fall for it again. Hopefully they will even report it if they see it happening, I do.

[Darryl_P]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree however the next step in the argument is how do you know the person you are gambling with has legit funds. Kinda of like pokerspot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. What if you win $500 fair and square in a heads-up game from a guy who deposited fraudulently? Will pokerstars come after you 60-120 days later and take it back? Will they try to claim you were in cahoots with him? Why should an innocent player have to deal with crap like that? Clear the funds first and make sure every single dollar which is represented as real cash truly is real cash, or at least have a spine and take responsibility for it if it's not.

[pzhon]

I don't think this is as obviously a scam as some people have suggested on the thread. There is a tendency for people to blame the victim, perhaps because we feel safer if we can find the victim's mistake. Keep in mind that GrannyMae lost money similarly.

I think poker sites should be more proactive about protecting their customers from scammers and spammers. There are many ways this can be done, from monitoring the chat more carefully to putting restrictions on the transfer and chat abilities of new accounts to posting appropriate warnings where customers will see them.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
How about using a concept called "cleared" funds and only allowing transfers with that? There are lots of deposit methods besides credit cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe the only 2 100% guaranteed funds are bank wires and Western Union. Many rooms do not accept WU either. Firepay, Neteller and any other EFT or credit card funded method can be charged back/fraudulant.

In other words only people using those 2 deposit methods people who have not deposited in months, or very large winners would have uncleared funds in their account. This easily eliminates 90%+ of all players thus making transfer pointless. If rooms stopped allowing transfers people would just bitch about that instead.

It's real simple, dont fall for this scam and it wont happen to you.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree however the next step in the argument is how do you know the person you are gambling with has legit funds. Kinda of like pokerspot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. What if you win $500 fair and square in a heads-up game from a guy who deposited fraudulently? Will pokerstars come after you 60-120 days later and take it back? Will they try to claim you were in cahoots with him? Why should an innocent player have to deal with crap like that? Clear the funds first and make sure every single dollar which is represented as real cash truly is real cash, or at least have a spine and take responsibility for it if it's not.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you win this money heads up and the house looks at the HH's and it was chip dumping it is very possible they confiscate the funds. If they believe the game was legit then its just the price of doing business. The price of doing business is not having people defraud them by dumping the chips.

Winning the money is different then transfering it and cashing it out for someone else. There have been endless threads over the years here "I lost money to my friend intentionally cause I owed him money and they froze my account". This is for the same reason.

If someone usues Paypal to pay you and they charge it back Paypal isnt going to eat that, they will take it from you. If someone charges back a purchase to a retailer the bank is not going to eat the loss the retailer is. I dont see how this is different. There was fraud involved and the beneficiary of the fraud (the OP) had the money taken back. Stars doesnt know where the money went after it was cashed out, thats not their problem. If they ate this loss people could scam them so bad it would put them out of business as the fraudster would never have to pay back the scammed funds.

I think what is being missed here is that the person who cashes out the fraudulant funds is often a part of the scam. Obviously not the case here but I am sure in many cases the cashing out party has their account locked forever, especially if the funds cannot be paid back.

[PeteN]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is as obviously a scam as some people have suggested ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think pokerstars would issue pretty strong warnings about this. I can find no info on their site about it.

[BaHorst]

wow.. i had someone do this to me kind of. It was at absolute tho, so maybe it was legit, but now i'm kinda glad i didnt give him $50 for his $70 at pstars.

[furious]

Thanks for the posts everyone. I thought once I had the cash in my account it was safe. I only sent the western union transfer after I received the $740. I don't see how I was stupid, the money was already transfered to my account when I did the w.u. transaction. I was fine until Pokerstars decided to refund the transaction. I've used their site to trade w$ and t$ alot and thought I could trust their system. There wouldn't have been a scam if Pokerstars had of left the money transfer as is. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. The only thing I am guilty of I trusting Pokerstars to honour their transactions. Once I received the funds my trust was in their site, not the unknown scammer. So how am I a 'retard or stupid' by trusting a legitimate pokersite? 70,000+ users, television commercials...a WPT event. I trusted their integrity. How can they reverse a transaction?

[Mogobu The Fool]

You misunderstand the system.

If you cashed a check from the scammer, and then gave cash to the scammer the next day, you would understand why it was foolish. A week later you would learn that the check bounced. Would you then claim that you put the trust in your bank? No, you put trust in the scammer and their check!

When doing inter-account transfers, you are not trusting the SITE, you are trusting the other individual. The reason you had no trouble before was because the individuals were legit.

If you played against him and won the money (not looking like dumping), then you could trust the winnings were yours, because they came from the site. You can trust the site. And then the site caught him for depositing with a stolen credit card in the first place, they would eat the loss and you would keep your winnings.

That's a big piece of why there are deposit limits. If someone could steal a card and deposit a $20k credit line at once, they could then dump to a variety of players online, looking fairly legit. . . or get a bunch of peopel to fall for transfer scames. By the time the site caught them, they would have processed away all or most of the cash.

So this is why there are deposit limits, and this is why people get into trouble for trying to bypass the transfer systems in place. . . there have also been threads with people caught dumping chips to each other to transfer larger amounts of funds. Surprise; it's forbidden and gets your account locked during an investigation, because that's how theives launder money!

For this same reason, all cash transactions in US casinos over $10,000 must be reported. It's about stopping money laundering!

[Darryl_P]

If you deposit a personal check to a bank account can you withdraw the funds before it clears? How about at pokerstars? If the guy tried to withdraw his balance shortly after the transfer, would he have been successful?

[Darryl_P]

I wasn't aware Neteller does chargebacks. That's pretty depressing. I have a feeling we'll all be using e-gold in 20 or 30 years.

[Pokeraddict]

Mogobu The Fool is right. Everyone wants to blame Pokerstars when IMO you should be thankful you didnt get banned forever for participating in this, knowingly or not. Its not Pokerstars "system" its the fact someone commited fraud and your account helped them try to get the money back. Pokerstars cant reward you for being a part of this.

As mentioned before the party cashing out the cash is often a part of the fraud. If they allowed this to happen and let the fraudsters keep the money none of these poker rooms could stay in business. Its that simple. You were had by an old scam. Quit trying to blame Pokerstars for it and be thankful they did not ban you. I assume you have a good track record with them. If your account was new I'm sure they would automatically assume you were a part of it.

The check comparison is a great way to look at it. The money might be in your account but if the check bounces the bank takes it back. If the bank didnt do it you could write checks all over toen and scam the banks and they would have no recourse and would go out of business from all the fraud.

If someone bounces a check is it the banks fault? Should they eat the loss?

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
If you deposit a personal check to a bank account can you withdraw the funds before it clears? How about at pokerstars? If the guy tried to withdraw his balance shortly after the transfer, would he have been successful?

[/ QUOTE ]

He would almost certainly have to cash it out the way he deposited it. If it was a credit card they would probably have to fax back info. It is doubtful this player ever had the intention of cashing it out that way.

[raze]

[ QUOTE ]
Seemed legit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sigh.. guys, keep your money to yourself and no one gets scammed.

[Darryl_P]

The reason I ask is that the level of vestedness in the cash reasonably perceived by the player would depend on his ability to cash out. If pokerstars lets him cash out, it's effectively a stamp of approval that the money belongs to him. To backtrack on that as a matter of policy is unethical IMO.

To the extent a bank doesn't let you cash out an uncleared personal check, the two situations are quite different.

[Pokeraddict]

It's like beating head against wall. I give up trying to explain this. You go to your bank and cash/deposit a check and it bounces they dont let you keep the money just because someone defrauded you, the same goes for cashing out funds someone else stole from a poker room. think of them as a bank. If they let people scam them like that they would all be out of business just like the banks would be if they let peoole defraud them on bad checks.

The poker room probably does not even know for sure if the OP is a part of the scam and they should let him keep $740 in stolen money?

This is the exact reason many rooms make you play out transfered money, so they can not be scammed like this.

[PeteN]

of course asking yourself why someone would trust you a stranger to send them their $740 is a good question

also, pokerstars forbids anyone from solicting transfers on their site

[Darryl_P]

I don't mean to give you a headache, but I think I made a valid point about why pokerstars may want to consider changing its policy. I'm not sure what the best policy would be, especially since Neteller is not cleared funds either (news to me), maybe not allowing withdrawals of transferred funds for a few days the same way banks hold on to uncleared checks, I don't know.

I figure pokerstars management appreciates constructive criticism and intelligent discussion about their policies.

I'm not saying the guy who got scammed is not at fault at all. Of course he is, but pokerstars has a part in it too for making him think that cash belongs to him when it really doesn't.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I have to wonder if this is a legit post? If pokerstars is getting illegit money in their system this easy they'd be having more problems than this. I don't think they should be allowing the xfer of uncleared funds, couldn't find anything on their site about this at all except you can do it. I also think it'd be a little dumb to fall for this. Has anyone else heard of such a thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Chargebacks and fraud are a huge problem for online gambling sites!!

[BruinEric]

There is some small amount of protection available. If a players solicits money from you on PokerStars in such a way, you should consider notifying support ASAP.

The REAL protection (as has been said by others on this thread) is to understand that players looking to trade money on sites are frequently scammers.

Players should also understand that the money transfer function on accounts should be used sparingly because such transactions are often a piece of a problem. Those involved in receiving transferred funds from a fraudlent/NSF deposit can often be part of a poker site's investigation. You are somewhat lucky that all your funds weren't seized or put on hold pending investigation. Poker sites do NOT want to be part of a money laundering scheme.

[ericicecream]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Pokerstars is wrong to allow transfers of uncleared funds. These sites are happy to collect rake on money that might not be legit, but paying it out is another story. A truly ethical site would do the security checks at the time of the deposit.

Having said that, I think Pokerstars is a good site overall with better customer service than anyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with both statements.

If the player had requested a cash out, they certainly would have waited until the credit card cleared. They should do the same for transfers.

[Annorax]

This [censored] wouldn't happen if poker sites applied the same security procedures to transfers as they do to cashouts. PokerStars' history window already lists them as "transfer cashout" and "transfer purchase"... how hard is it to route those requests to the security department for review instead of automatically reversing deposits?

Lee Jones... I know you're reading this, PLEASE consider having this done. I'd feel better if a transfer took time for security to check it out. I'd imagine most 2+2ers would too.

[mbpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
If the player had requested a cash out, they certainly would have waited until the credit card cleared. They should do the same for transfers.

[/ QUOTE ]

What if then OP would make an arrangement with the scammer to dump chips to him instead of transferring?

The real solution is to be diligent and not fall for obvious scams.

[furious]

I sell a bike to Dick who then goes to the bank to withdraw funds to pay me. A week later the bank determines the money is stolen. Can the bank then come to my house to demand I return the money?

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
I sell a bike to Dick who then goes to the bank to withdraw funds to pay me. A week later the bank determines the money is stolen.

[/ QUOTE ]


???????


how in the world would a bank determine that the funds were stolen in your simplistic analogy?

[Mogobu The Fool]

[ QUOTE ]
If you deposit a personal check to a bank account can you withdraw the funds before it clears? How about at pokerstars? If the guy tried to withdraw his balance shortly after the transfer, would he have been successful?

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter if you can withdraw "the funds." If I have $2k in my account, and a scammer gives me a $1000 check, I can deposit the check and give him $1000 of my cash a day or two later. . . the check will bounce after a week, and I'm stuck. Remember, I paid the scammer out of MY pocket. In theory, I could have even written him (or his accomplics) a check of my own that they could cash -- the check would clear against the funds I already in my account, but his original check to me would never clear.

The situation is similar here. The scammer transfered a balance (like a check) into the victim's PStars account. Did he then withdraw the money from PStars into his bank and wait for it to clear? No. He paid the scammer out of his pocket through Western Union.

So the analogy applies just fine; the only real difference is that PStars does not explicitly tell people that funds ledgered in the system are not necessarily cleared funds, unless they try to withdraw to a bank and then bitch about the funds taking too long to show up. . .

Why do they do this?

Because that's what people want. They want to be able to credit their account from whatever source and be able to play right away. To play, the credit has to be treated by the system as valid. If you choose to play with the money, the site will treat all the action as legit.

The original poster noted: "I feel if pokerstars reverses the money transaction their site performed they are giving the power to the scammers and their legitimate users have no protection against such scams. It was I who was contacted by the scammer not I who initiated contact."

I'm sorry, but I disagree on several counts. Firstly, keeping restrictions on cashouts and reversing fradulent transfers is the only way to protect against scammers! The only additional protection they could provide is to lock ALL incoming money out of play for several days/weeks until the funds clear, and far more users would be upset at that policy, or they could forbid all inter-account transfers, which would also make players angry.

Secondly, even such a restrictive policy would offer no protection to a legitimate user -- someone who would not handle cash for an unknown party. Bear in mind that people who use PStars to transfer cash are NOT legitimate users! PStars is not a banking system; it is a gambling site. Legitimate users use PStars to gamble.

Third, this was not a transaction "their site performed." It's a transaction the scammer and the victim performed; the two of them USED the site. . . and again, they were not using the site for the legitimate and advertised purpose of the site -- playing poker!

Lastly, PStars is not an instant messaging system; the fact that the scammer contacted the victim through PStars and not vice versa is irrelevant; using PStars to hook up with others for financial gain on cash transactions is NOT legitimate use! Game chat is provided to chat at the table, not to plan financial transactions. By the logic of the intial post, the victim should hold MSN liable, too, since the actual scheme was made by chatting on MSN. Obviously, that makes no sense.

If I sound like I'm being hard on the victim, I'm sorry. . . But I'm just telling it like it is. Sometimes life is hard. Doing this transaction was a gamble where Furious risked $740 to gain $60, and lost. He/she fell for a scam; it's a tough way to learn a lesson, but I suspect the lesson is learned. The best that can come of this would be that others learn from Furious' pain and not need to suffer their own.

[Mogobu The Fool]

[ QUOTE ]
I sell a bike to Dick who then goes to the bank to withdraw funds to pay me. A week later the bank determines the money is stolen. Can the bank then come to my house to demand I return the money?

[/ QUOTE ]

No; you keep the cash.

But in your PStars example, YOU were Dick. You gave out the cash. Then it turned out the BIKE was stolen, and yes, the cops will take it back.

[furious]

I also use the site to trade w$ and t$ so these deals are not safe also? I sell severaly seats per week so this means that I can lose on these deals as well? No where on its site does P.stars issue a warning of any kind. So what's next will the 'little guy' get scammed on these deals as well? I know a lot of people who play the satellites to later sell the seats. They need to be warned that their deals are not safe from fraud. If pokerstars is going to provide the transfer option or the trade W$ or T$ option it needs to either A) a detailed explanation that no deal is 100% safe or B) guarantee that their deals will stand up and honour the transactions performed BY their site. So what is next, I win 100bb in a session go out shopping only to find the next day that the money I won was stolen by the initial depositor and I need to pay it back?
A B&M casinos atleast I know money won at the table is mine and no one will take it back from me. There is no protection in online poker. Pokerstars needs to assure money deposited on the site has been done so legally before they release it for play.

[furious]

I also use the site to trade w$ and t$ so these deals are not safe also? I sell severaly seats per week so this means that I can lose on these deals as well? No where on its site does P.stars issue a warning of any kind. So what's next will the 'little guy' get scammed on these deals as well? I know a lot of people who play the satellites to later sell the seats. They need to be warned that their deals are not safe from fraud. If pokerstars is going to provide the transfer option or the trade W$ or T$ option it needs to either A) a detailed explanation that no deal is 100% safe or B) guarantee that their deals will stand up and honour the transactions performed BY their site. So what is next, I win 100bb in a session go out shopping only to find the next day that the money I won was stolen by the initial depositor and I need to pay it back?
A B&M casinos atleast I know money won at the table is mine and no one will take it back from me. There is no protection in online poker. Pokerstars needs to assure money deposited on the site has been done so legally before they release it for play.

[primetime32]

furious you are comparing apples and oranges. Just deal with the fact that you got scammed and stop whining because pokerstars won't enforce the scam.

And lets be honest, who does all that work and risks that much money for 60 bucks?? Seems like a complete waste of time to me.

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
No where on its site does P.stars issue a warning of any kind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Shall we put a sign up on every corner telling people like you to look both ways before crossing? Frankly you're an adult take responsibility for you're own stupidity.

[furious]

Don't forget that the majority of online players play small limits and to alot of online players $60 is a fair bit of cash. All of my small limit buddies at p.stars need to know that the W$ and T$ transactions are also not safe.

[Mogobu The Fool]

[ QUOTE ]
I also use the site to trade w$ and t$ so these deals are not safe also?

[/ QUOTE ]

Transferring the w$ and t$ is safe, since you are staying within the system and PStars can be sure that the sender's amounts are clear. In other words, PStars has the w$ and t$. The transfer of cash balance is different; PStars does not have the cash. They are showing you a ledger balance; the actual cash is owned by outside accounts and are subject to the rules for clearing and reversal, just like all other ledger balances. What you are transferring is your account credit. That is subject to funding requirements and reversal.

Most importantly, PStars never offered to serve as a broker for your trades of W$ for cash. You're doing that totally on your own and outsided of the system. The terms of service prohibits solicitation in chat; if you agree to a deal in PStars chat, you're already in violation. If you make a deal in email or on eBay or whatever, you've done it outside of PStars. They have no responsiblity to enforce your deal; it is not their transaction, it is yours. You keep thinking the two trades are linked together, but they are not linked for PStars. They are linked for you and your trading partner. For PStars, it is one player's transaction (W$, which is clear instantly), and another player's transaction (account balance transfer, which is subject to funding and reversal).

[ QUOTE ]
If pokerstars is going to provide the transfer option or the trade W$ or T$ option it needs to either A) a detailed explanation that no deal is 100% safe or B) guarantee that their deals will stand up and honour the transactions performed BY their site.

[/ QUOTE ]

In life, no deal is 100% safe. Apparently, you need to put that on the ceiling of your bedroom so you can see it when you wake up.

Also, you are not talking about transactions performed BY their site. You are talking about transactions performed BY you and your trading partner; you are just using their site. They DO stand by transactions performed BY their site. Read on. . .

[ QUOTE ]
So what is next, I win 100bb in a session go out shopping only to find the next day that the money I won was stolen by the initial depositor and I need to pay it back?


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, you have protection in this case. They will not come after you for the money, because you won it in transactions performed BY their site. When you play a hand, the site handles taking the bets, dealing the cards, and deciding who gets what at the end. They take responsibility for that. If someone deposits $1000 fraudulent dollars and loses it on the tables, and then the creditor reverses the charge because of fraud, PStars takes the hit. They trusted the person offering the money and let them play, so they take the hit.

But if you make a trade with another player, YOU are trusting the other party for YOUR trade.

[ QUOTE ]
Pokerstars needs to assure money deposited on the site has been done so legally before they release it for play.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would piss off a lot of legitimate players, so PokerStars takes the risk and lets people play as soon as they can. If they're allowed to play and it backfires, it's PokerStars' own loss. I don't see the problem.

[BCl]

"What if you win $500 fair and square in a heads-up game from a guy who deposited fraudulently?"

Bodog will and has..not in heads up either. they've had people buy-in then try to run it up in the cash games and withdraw it before the neteller clears...but if you were the lucky fellow who called his all-in and won....they come back and take the money from you!!!!!

[zaphod]

Fold preflop.

[Mogobu The Fool]

If that's a legit claim, and not just a Bodog rumor from someone who was a partner in chip-dumping, then that's a good reason not to play Bodog!

[joop]

Why didn't you just keep the $740 and not send the WU payment? He would have a hard time getting it back off you /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[aheravi]

I had the same offer, but I told them I was a bit short because I'm helping out a Nigerian friend.

[Leader]

[ QUOTE ]
I had the same offer, but I told them I was a bit short because I'm helping out a Nigerian friend.

[/ QUOTE ]

I laughed

[iluzion]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm glad to see that evolution still works. I hope that $740 you lost prevents you from reporducing and passing on your stupidity to future generations.

[/ QUOTE ]

After first reading the OP, I thought this comment was too harsh.. after finishing the thread, I realized its the best post here.

[Pokeraddict]

I think it is obvious to most that this person who received the WU, if this money was legit, would have never have trusted someone that they did not know to trust this money would be sent. Many of you want to put the blame on the poker room. This was an obvious scam, it is not Poker Stars fault the OP fell for it. This is one of the oldest poker room scams. It's as easy as that. I'm really confused as to why this drags on.

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Seemed legit.

[/ QUOTE ]

here's your first mistake.

[HRFats]

What if the OP had received a transfer from Neteller? Is a Neteller transfer guaranteed cleared funds?

[SynSid]

[ QUOTE ]
A B&M casinos atleast I know money won at the table is mine and no one will take it back from me. There is no protection in online poker. Pokerstars needs to assure money deposited on the site has been done so legally before they release it for play.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is this relevant? You DIDN'T win this money playing at the tables. The correct analogy would be that at a B&M casino you sell chips to someone. You then find out that the money he bought them with is fake notes - and are now making a thread complaining that the casino won't swap the fake notes for real ones.

[O Fen�meno]

i am very disappointed in op for misspelling scam, the proper spelling is scame

[lurker1022]

OP see here...
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=inet&Number=10918729&page =0&fpart=1)

[SoCalRugger]

[ QUOTE ]
OP see here...
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...e=0&fpart=1 (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=inet&Number=10918729&page =0&fpart=1)

[/ QUOTE ]
The OP is 2 years old...

[gfire3245]

Shocking.....That OP is dumb

[MicroBob]

this was kind of a strange bump.

Everyone reading this thread for the first time - Look at the date of the OP...this thread is pretty old.

[Josem]

[ QUOTE ]
i am very disappointed in op for misspelling scam, the proper spelling is scame

[/ QUOTE ]

you have a weird habit of bumping really old posts for no apparent reason.

[O Fen�meno]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i am very disappointed in op for misspelling scam, the proper spelling is scame

[/ QUOTE ]

you have a weird habit of bumping really old posts for no apparent reason.

[/ QUOTE ]
that appears to be very true.
imo you are trolling my posts