KQo yuck!

[Patrick Bateman]

I suspect this one is misplayed on every street, but am not sure. A friend of mine (who plays NL only btw) was watching at the time and said "that are some strange calls you are making there", hence I am making this post.

10 handed $2-$4 game. No particular reads at the time other than that the table texture is loose and on the passive side.

I get KhQc UTG+1. UTG limps, I raise and only the BB and UTG call.

Flop 894 2 hearts. Check, check, I bet, BB raises, UTG folds, I call

Turn Td Bet call

River As Bet fold

Flame away!

[MyTurn2Raise]

9 to 1 on flop call with two overs and position verse a c/r that can mean anything (both made hands and draw c/r are very possible here)...I'm calling

6 to 1 on turn with tainted overs and inside straight to nuts...I'm calling here too

Villian bet scary river card...you went UI...fold

this looks standard to me and is probably the way I'd play it

[Niediam]

I usually limp preflop (however a lot of 2+2ers swear by raising) but otherwise it looks standard to me.

[James.]

i think the turn is a call; how often are you behind to two pair or reverse domination(K9, Q9)? when you pickup the gutshot you improve just enough to continue IMO. i know the river is a fold. i don't think it is misplayed.

[Nick C]

It seems all right to me.

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually limp preflop (however a lot of 2+2ers swear by raising) but otherwise it looks standard to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising KQo UTG+1 with a limper is standard? I guess it's better than limping, but depending on the game I'm folding here a good deal of the time.

[PotatoStew]

[ QUOTE ]
i think the turn is a call; how often are you behind to two pair or reverse domination(K9, Q9)? when you pickup the gutshot you improve just enough to continue IMO. i know the river is a fold. i don't think it is misplayed.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's also behind to a flopped set, and his K and Q outs won't help him there either. On the turn, how many outs are you giving him? I think it's dicey to consider much more than two outs total for his K and Q. With the gutshot, that makes it 6 outs, which makes it a fold. Am I being too stingy with my outs here?

[James.]

i was not explicitly stating all of the hands to which he was behind. obviously sets are possible. i included the implied odds on the river, FWIW. i had six outs as well. i could be wrong.

[hoosiertim]

I would raise here almost every time. Exception might be if UTG was VERy tight and VERY passive. Then I might fold. I would NEVER call in this situation

[hoosiertim]

With 6 outs and 6 Big bets on the table, wouldn't the implied odds of at least one more bet give you enough to have a small + EV here?

[Niediam]

It may be the 2+2 standard but it clearly goes against SSH. And I have yet to see a single person explain why the book is heck... heck I havn't even seen somebody yet willing to just admit that they think Miller et al are simply making a mistake. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I honestly don't know which way is better so I'm not going to argue for either side but my instincts really tell me that the difference in EV is going to be super small and it realy doesn't matter...

[Los Feliz Slim]

[ QUOTE ]
It may be the 2+2 standard but it clearly goes against SSH. And I have yet to see a single person explain why the book is heck... heck I havn't even seen somebody yet willing to just admit that they think Miller et al are simply making a mistake. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I honestly don't know which way is better so I'm not going to argue for either side but my instincts really tell me that the difference in EV is going to be super small and it realy doesn't matter...

[/ QUOTE ]

In a loose game where I expect there to be 3+ players against whom I'm out of position even when I raise, and a very high possibility of a 3-bet, this is a fold for me. There seems to be too good of a chance of making the second best hand and not being able to get away. But that's me.

[ghostface]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually limp preflop (however a lot of 2+2ers swear by raising) but otherwise it looks standard to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising KQo UTG+1 with a limper is standard? I guess it's better than limping, but depending on the game I'm folding here a good deal of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never folding. Always raising.

[Niediam]

http://www.pokerroom.com/games/evstats/positionStats.php?players=10

Even the bad players seem to be winning with it in EP...

[Patrick Bateman]

Thanks guys for the discussion. I thought it was pretty standard but the comment of my friend made me doubt myself. I guess I am just an insecure little kid when it comes to my game. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[ackid]

call on flop. If turn is a non heart raise.
Than go for free showdown if river is not a K or Q.

[Patrick Bateman]

[ QUOTE ]
call on flop. If turn is a non heart raise.
Than go for free showdown if river is not a K or Q.

[/ QUOTE ]
Can you explain why you would take this line?