The moon III

[godBoy]

I read an article in the newspaper today about Stephen Hawking, it was about the idea of building a colony on the Moon.

It said "The moon has everything needed to sustain humans. Ice was recently discovered at the poles. There is enough material to support life and also many profitable industries.

The first colonists would not have to take anything with them to the moon because it's all there: aluminium, iron, hydrogen, helium and oxygen."

Interested in hearing your thoughts about this...

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
The first colonists would not have to take anything with them to the moon because it's all there: aluminium, iron, hydrogen, helium and oxygen."

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and the moon's native tribes have primitive smelting systems set up, so we're reading to go!

[FredBoots]

[ QUOTE ]
"It is important for the human race to spread out into space for the survival of the species," Hawking said. "Life on Earth is at the ever-increasing risk of being wiped out by a disaster, such as sudden global warming, nuclear war, a genetically engineered virus or other dangers we have not yet thought of."

[/ QUOTE ]

This is about the stupidest thing this guy has said (besides thinking time would run backwards once the universe starts contracting). No matter how difficult things get on Earth, whether it be global warming or viruses or nuclear winter, they are NOTHING compared to how difficult it would be to live on the moon.

[FortunaMaximus]

[ QUOTE ]
This is about the stupidest thing this guy has said (besides thinking time would run backwards once the universe starts contracting). No matter how difficult things get on Earth, whether it be global warming or viruses or nuclear winter, they are NOTHING compared to how difficult it would be to live on the moon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hawking isn't omniscient. He, too, learns.

Ekin' out an existence on Luna isn't horribly difficult, just beyond our current abilities. Namely, the propulsion of mass out of Earth's gravity well, cheaply and efficiently.

As for the moon itself? As an earlier poster said, the necessary things are entwined in the regolith. Churn out the oxygen, make some silicon glass with UV filterin', get some good acreage of soil. Two weeks of sunlight, no clouds. Slap a layer over a crater of moderate size, you've got an instant farm. Leakage? Triple redunancy at the very least.

As for livin', well, dig into the surface, develop a closed ecology with sufficient surplus of all the necessities. Water, air, what have you.

Survivability factor. Well, hell, the nucleus of Western civilization sprung out of a desert.

That said, there will be much thinner margins for error in what must be a closed-loop system with perpetual supply lines.

We're not there yet. It'll be difficult, but we have a knack of makin' the difficult commonplace over time.

[Chips_]

This reminds me of the old TV series Space 1999, starring Martin Landau as the commander of moon base alpha. They had the moon base but when they wanted information from their computer it was in the form of a printout.They overestimated our space travel and life sustaining technologies but underestimated what would happen with computers.

I think we will have a moon base some day. But I think the first base will need supplies from the earth.

[r3vbr]

Space elevator will exist before 2030. Someone wanna bet?

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The first colonists would not have to take anything with them to the moon because it's all there: aluminium, iron, hydrogen, helium and oxygen."

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, and the moon's native tribes have primitive smelting systems set up, so we're reading to go!

[/ QUOTE ]

Off to the reservation for them, let's make and break some treaties...

[Hiding]

[ QUOTE ]
Space elevator will exist before 2030. Someone wanna bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I'd like to hear why you think that. Is some one activiely working on it? Last thing I ever even looked at (several years ago) said the main hang up was nothing was structurally strong enough for the distance.

[Lestat]

IM not sure whether or not the moon (or mars), has enough resources to sustain long term colonies, but I do think it's a great endeavor to strive towards. I feel very strongly that man is destined to become an extinct species relatively soon if he does not find a way off the earth.

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
IM not sure whether or not the moon (or mars), has enough resources to sustain long term colonies, but I do think it's a great endeavor to strive towards. I feel very strongly that man is destined to become an extinct species relatively soon if he does not find a way off the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]
Imagine how awesome it'd be to stand on the moon with binoculars watching the destruction of Earth by a meteorite or something. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
Space elevator will exist before 2030. Someone wanna bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd love to bet, but only so that you would explain more, not because I thought I would win.

[flatline]

[ QUOTE ]
Space elevator will exist before 2030. Someone wanna bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Try Long Bets (http://www.longbets.org/).

BTW, I think 2030 is a good over/under for a space elevator.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
Imagine how awesome it'd be to stand on the moon with binoculars watching the destruction of Earth by a meteorite or something. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome? /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[godBoy]

My thoughts were along similar lines,
Surely the ease at which he thinks we can create a habitable colony is overestimated. As well as how utterly boring it would be inside a dome on that dusty rock.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts were along similar lines,
Surely the ease at which he thinks we can create a habitable colony is overestimated. As well as how utterly boring it would be inside a dome on that dusty rock.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds right, I think people are more likely to want to live in the spaceship.

A more plausible scenario is the moon is found useful in some way - mining, tourism, penal colonies etc. Workers will have to be housed and gradually other workers will arrive to provide services to the initial workers, improving conditions for all living there.

Evetually the moon might be a relatively nice place to live (then again maybe not).

chez

[Copernicus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts were along similar lines,
Surely the ease at which he thinks we can create a habitable colony is overestimated. As well as how utterly boring it would be inside a dome on that dusty rock.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds right, I think people are more likely to want to live in the spaceship.

A more plausible scenario is the moon is found useful in some way - mining, tourism, penal colonies etc. Workers will have to be housed and gradually other workers will arrive to provide services to the initial workers, improving conditions for all living there.

Evetually the moon might be a relatively nice place to live (then again maybe not).

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

It cant be anyworse than Vegas was. And I think playing internet poker is legal on the moon.

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts were along similar lines,
Surely the ease at which he thinks we can create a habitable colony is overestimated. As well as how utterly boring it would be inside a dome on that dusty rock.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds right, I think people are more likely to want to live in the spaceship.

A more plausible scenario is the moon is found useful in some way - mining, tourism, penal colonies etc. Workers will have to be housed and gradually other workers will arrive to provide services to the initial workers, improving conditions for all living there.

Evetually the moon might be a relatively nice place to live (then again maybe not).

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

It cant be anyworse than Vegas was. And I think playing internet poker is legal on the moon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Inter-galactic bad beats will be the worst kind of evil.

[Andrew Karpinski]

[ QUOTE ]
IM not sure whether or not the moon (or mars), has enough resources to sustain long term colonies, but I do think it's a great endeavor to strive towards. I feel very strongly that man is destined to become an extinct species relatively soon if he does not find a way off the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

[godBoy]

This actually reminds of a primary school science project.
We had to draw up a design of a self sustaining space station..

Mine was fantastic, it had solar panels for energy, plants for oxygen, cows for food, rooms for sleep, waste disposal, gravity 'maker', and an exercise room I think.. Who needs anything else? - ah the joys of primary school life.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
... Mine was fantastic, ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Like all your notions, according to you, godboy! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CORed]

I don't know of any science fiction books, movies, or TV shows that really anticipated the way computer technology has gone. Science fiction from the '50's to the '70's often featured computers that became intelligent or self aware, or went rogue and killed lots of people, or did other amazing things that comuters still can't (and mabye never will) do, but the computer was always a big, expensive piece of hardware. I don't know of any science fiction from that era that predicted that computers of phenomenal power would become almost as ubiquitous as telephones, and small enough to sit on your desk or be carried with you on an airplane.

[wiper]

[ QUOTE ]

Try Long Bets (http://www.longbets.org/).



[/ QUOTE ]

cool site. gonna have to sign up and argue against a couple of those..

[MuresanForMVP]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is about the stupidest thing this guy has said (besides thinking time would run backwards once the universe starts contracting). No matter how difficult things get on Earth, whether it be global warming or viruses or nuclear winter, they are NOTHING compared to how difficult it would be to live on the moon.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hawking isn't omniscient. He, too, learns.

Ekin' out an existence on Luna isn't horribly difficult, just beyond our current abilities. Namely, the propulsion of mass out of Earth's gravity well, cheaply and efficiently.

As for the moon itself? As an earlier poster said, the necessary things are entwined in the regolith. Churn out the oxygen, make some silicon glass with UV filterin', get some good acreage of soil. Two weeks of sunlight, no clouds. Slap a layer over a crater of moderate size, you've got an instant farm. Leakage? Triple redunancy at the very least.

As for livin', well, dig into the surface, develop a closed ecology with sufficient surplus of all the necessities. Water, air, what have you.

Survivability factor. Well, hell, the nucleus of Western civilization sprung out of a desert.

That said, there will be much thinner margins for error in what must be a closed-loop system with perpetual supply lines.

We're not there yet. It'll be difficult, but we have a knack of makin' the difficult commonplace over time.

[/ QUOTE ]

-Fortuna for Mayor of Moon Colony I

[CORed]

Carbon nanotube is probably strong enough. OTOH, I don't think anybody's figured out how to produce it in that kind of quantities or at a low enough cost to make a space elevator feasible. But, given a sufficiently strong material,at a low enough cost, a space elevator shouldn't be that hard, and is a hell of a lot more efficient than rockets for getting out of the Earth's gravity well.

[ixDragons]

My first post! Read the Red/Blue/Green Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson for a description of what happens when a space elevator is cut and whips around the planet gaining speed with every second. If it's functionally strong enough it's also strong enough to carve a valley across the face of the earth... I hope they never build one.

[Exsubmariner]

[ QUOTE ]
A more plausible scenario is the moon is found useful in some way - mining, tourism, penal colonies etc. Workers will have to be housed and gradually other workers will arrive to provide services to the initial workers, improving conditions for all living there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Helium 3 is abundant on the moon and rare on Earth. It is a great molecule for hot fusion. I think the first colony on the moon will be Helium 3 miners who ship product back to Earth that powers the first fusion power industry.

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A more plausible scenario is the moon is found useful in some way - mining, tourism, penal colonies etc. Workers will have to be housed and gradually other workers will arrive to provide services to the initial workers, improving conditions for all living there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Helium 3 is abundant on the moon and rare on Earth. It is a great molecule for hot fusion. I think the first colony on the moon will be Helium 3 miners who ship product back to Earth that powers the first fusion power industry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering the energy costs of travelling from the earth to the moon, you'd need some really novel technology to cause the mining of helium on the moon to give you a net gain in power.

[Chips_]

One of Hawking's points about a self sufficient moon base has been that it would be a place of survival for the human race if all people on the earth were destroyed. One can imagine many doomsday scenareos such as a virus that wipes out all humans. A self sufficient moon base and/or Mars base would increase the likelihood that the human race survives.

[Go Blue]

[ QUOTE ]
Space elevator will exist before 2030. Someone wanna bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator

This is some interesting stuff...