The Mystery of Genius

[Praxis101]

I don't recall seeing a thread on this, but if there has been one, please link /images/graemlins/grin.gif

In the past few days or so, I started becoming interesting in the study of genius (what causes it, lives of truly brilliant people/similarities between them, what it is exactly).

After a little googling, I read this (http://scienceandreligion.com/genius.htm) and found it fascinating. Wikipedia's article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius) was also very interesting.

Has anyone read a good book or article on the subject(s)?

How many 2+2er's have been Mensa-tested as having an IQ above 140? (I think I've seen this come up in various threads, but I'm really looking for a % of 2+2er's rather than a who's-smarter-than-who kind of thing)

Who are the truely brilliant minds of our time? (Let's say the past 50 years)

[kipin]

Wow.....

[Strumey]

Didnt read the links. I didnt have to. I am a genius and already know everything.

[NutCrackerr]

8.465%....next question

[Tennenbaum]

My mom and I were just talking about this. I was tested a long time ago and they said 151. My old behavioral therapist was going to pay my way to Phillips Exeter Academy in NH. I didn't want to go. Instead I did nothing in school failed a bunch of classes and dropped out of college. I cant be all that smart.

[rwanger]

[ QUOTE ]
My mom and I were just talking about this. I was tested a long time ago and they said 151. My old behavioral therapist was going to pay my way to Phillips Exeter Academy in NH. I didn't want to go. Instead I did nothing in school failed a bunch of classes and dropped out of college. I cant be all that smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you do this? If you're relatively smart, going to class and taking the final should be enough to get you through most classes.

[Andrew Karpinski]

I took an internet IQ test that said I was a genius and should buy their stuff exclusively for geniuses, so I'm probably 165+

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My mom and I were just talking about this. I was tested a long time ago and they said 151. My old behavioral therapist was going to pay my way to Phillips Exeter Academy in NH. I didn't want to go. Instead I did nothing in school failed a bunch of classes and dropped out of college. I cant be all that smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you do this? If you're relatively smart, going to class and taking the final should be enough to get you through most classes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing.

My question is have you been tested since?

[Gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
My mom and I were just talking about this. I was tested a long time ago and they said 151. My old behavioral therapist was going to pay my way to Phillips Exeter Academy in NH. I didn't want to go. Instead I did nothing in school failed a bunch of classes and dropped out of college. I cant be all that smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is ridiculous...that's like turning down an 80k check

Edit: not to mention the opportunity cost of not taking a world-class prep education in terms of $$$ earned and knowledge

[uncleshady]

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ64Q.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

How many times have you played this game with people who thought it was the Genius Edition?

[Gunny Highway]

[ QUOTE ]
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ64Q.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

How many times have you played this game with people who thought it was the Genius Edition?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would I play the German edition? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[rwanger]

[ QUOTE ]

How many times have you played this game with people who thought it was the Genius Edition?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was right along with them. Who are the adwizards that decided that "Genus Edition" would be a great name for a game that tested knowledge?

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ64Q.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

How many times have you played this game with people who thought it was the Genius Edition?

[/ QUOTE ]

At least 5, and sadly, I used to be one of them. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[uncleshady]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ64Q.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

How many times have you played this game with people who thought it was the Genius Edition?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would I play the German edition? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, I didn't even notice it was in German.

[Tennenbaum]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My mom and I were just talking about this. I was tested a long time ago and they said 151. My old behavioral therapist was going to pay my way to Phillips Exeter Academy in NH. I didn't want to go. Instead I did nothing in school failed a bunch of classes and dropped out of college. I cant be all that smart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you do this? If you're relatively smart, going to class and taking the final should be enough to get you through most classes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking the same thing.

My question is have you been tested since?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not been. I'm sure I'm close to retarded at this point. I was very depressed in middle school - high school and just didn't give a crap about learning. I also did a ton of drugs in high school/college.

I haven't gotten back into the swing of school, but am def. thirsty for knowledge lately and do feel like I totally [censored] up a great opportunity that I will never have again. I've gotta start busting my ass to make it up.

[kipin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B0000TZ64Q.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

How many times have you played this game with people who thought it was the Genius Edition?

[/ QUOTE ]

At least 5, and sadly, I used to be one of them. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Honestly, I never would have guessed.

[Dominic]

Einstein
Feynman
The guy who invented the swizzle stick

[El Diablo]

Prax,

I took a professional adminstered and monitored IQ test from some sort of accredited testing facility when I was something like 10 or 11. It showed me to be a super-genius. I have refused to take any further IQ tests since then.

[El Diablo]

Tenn,

An old girlfriend went to Exeter. She said all the girls there were bitches.

[Tennenbaum]

[ QUOTE ]
Tenn,

An old girlfriend went to Exeter. She said all the girls there were bitches.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aww...I feel so much better /images/graemlins/wink.gif That's standard though. I mean girls everywhere are bitches...and stuck up, smart, rich bitches, all the more so (generally speaking of course)

[Aloysius]

Tennen - I thought the girls from Exeter were all hot and loaded with great drug connections. You missed out.

-Al

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
hot and loaded with great drug connections

[/ QUOTE ]

2/3 al

[El Diablo]

Al,

Yeah, those two things applied to her.

[diebitter]

I got 138 on a TV-show one, but I wasn't really paying attention...

[swede123]

I sometimes try those online ones where you match geometric shapes, figure which statement doesn't belong and so on. I usually start out awesome but then I cool down and start sucking, and I usually don't end up finishing. So I think my short-term IQ is like 150, but over the long haul it drops down to about 84.

Swede

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
Prax,

I took a professional adminstered and monitored IQ test from some sort of accredited testing facility when I was something like 10 or 11. It showed me to be a super-genius. I have refused to take any further IQ tests since then.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks ElD,

What, exactly, defines a super-genius? In terms of the proportion of the population considered to have this level of intelligence.

May I ask why you haven't been tested again, later in life?

I'm also curious what kind of challenging acheivments you've made as a direct result of your gift (meaning accomplishment(s) an "average" mind would be limited from)

From what I've read, many brilliant minds are "genius" in specific areas: music, math, physics, etc. Are there any specific fields that you have an unexplained understanding of?

[mother_brain]

Well I got tested in the 3rd grade and made it into the gifted class. About 7 of the 80 classmates were in there. Our parents all seemed to keep our IQs a big secret for some reason because they didn't want us comparing and thinking we were smarter than other people.

My mom now works with special ed students and has access to IQ tests. I was thinking about taking one out of curiousity. They say it doesn't change over time but i've killed a few braincells so it might be interesting.

Anybody ever think about listing their IQ on a resume if it was 130+?

[mother_brain]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm also curious what kind of challenging acheivments you've made as a direct result of your gift (meaning accomplishment(s) an "average" mind would be limited from)

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear El D is a decent poker player. That might involve some level of intelligence.

[Aloysius]

KB4Z - my year undergrad was a disproprtionate number of hot boarding school chicks. But I went to public school, so don't really know for sure. Spence chicks (which I guess is not really a boarding school) owned them all though.

Diablo - word.

-Al

[El Diablo]

Al,

I just realized that you might have meant either two or three things:

"hot" and "loaded with great drug connections"

or

"hot" and "loaded" and "with great drug connections"

Either way, all of those things definitely applied!

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
KB4Z - my year undergrad was a disproprtionate number of hot boarding school chicks. But I went to public school, so don't really know for sure. Spence chicks (which I guess is not really a boarding school) owned them all though.

Diablo - word.

-Al

[/ QUOTE ]

my guess is that you were used to looking at public school girls (who have a certain look) and when you saw snooty boarding school girls (who have a different look) you percieved this as novel and therefore better.

or maybe boarding school girls are hotter.

either way, the girls are certainly richer and have connections to better drugs.

holla

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
Al,

I just realized that you might have meant either two or three things:

"hot" and "loaded with great drug connections"

or

"hot" and "loaded" and "with great drug connections"

Either way, all of those things definitely applied!

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly a super genius should be able to figure this out

bang

[Aloysius]

Diablo - naturally, I assumed all applied. I can't see a super genius settling for less in a woman.

-Al

[Eaglesfan1]

Read Think and Grow Rich by whats his face

[thedarknight]

i fell asleep during my test
took it drunk
got a 198
i rule

[Tennenbaum]

[ QUOTE ]
i fell asleep during my test
took it drunk
got a 198
i rule

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call BS but I suppose the * under your name already implies that. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[El Diablo]

KBZ,

"clearly a super genius should be able to figure this out"

Of course I knew what he meant. I was just trying to nicely point out (stating it as possible confusion on my part rather than due to his lesser intellect) to him how he might have been clearer in his communication. When dealing with people who are not at super-genius level, it is sometimes important to be humble when correcting their inferior work.

[Praxis101]

Gonna bump this once, still curious /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Riverman]

[ QUOTE ]
Tenn,

An old girlfriend went to Exeter. She said all the girls there were bitches.

[/ QUOTE ]

She was right. The guys suck hard too.

[Utah]

IQ is only half the equation to true genius. I believe you also need low latent inhibition.

High IQ + High Latent Inhibition = a person who will likely contribute few new ideas of thoughts. I believe most people with high IQs fit this bucket and think of themselves as more valuable then they really are. An IQ of 180 means nothing if you cant be think creatively.

High IQ + Low Latent Inhibition = a person who is likely to change the world. This person is exceptionally rare.

The downside is that High IQ + Low Latent Inhibition = higher chance of going crazy.

[poopstar212]

hey utah are u a psychologist and if u are i have a few questions for u?

back a few years ago when i was despearte for cash (which i am again now so i may have to start up this practice up again) but i was signing up to be an experimental guinea pig for all sorts of experiments.

the one im describing here i didnt qualify for but i did go through the prelim testing and the grad student guy who was running it was telling me a little about it and using the words ur talking about with latent inhibition and pre pulse inhinbition and schizophrenia and stuff. i didnt understand all of what he was saying, a little but so i was hoping u might be able to clarify a little better.

so when i got there they made me fill out a long questionaree mostly mental health type question stuff and then they sat me in a chair and made me stare at a wall a few feet ahead of me and put headpones on me and hooked up electrodes to my eyelids to measure my blinking response while they played this tape through the headpones. i guess it was about 20 minutes long or so and i cant recall exactly what the was on the tape but i remember that every once in a while their would be like an awful like i don't know how to describe it but "shreieking" type noise that u might hear in a horror movie that was pretty unpleaseant to say the least.

it was kinda of real weird since i knew they were observing my thoughts in an indirect way so i wasnt sure what i should be thinking since i sometimes have some pretty bizarre thoughts running through my head and i didnt know if i wanted them knowing how big of a weirdo i really was. but anyways at the end they plugged a few of my test numbers into an equation and they guy is like sorry u dont qualify but this is the highest score weve had and i used to have the highest.

so at first i thougth this might be a good thing but then i started remember how most people who go into psychologically are pretty fd in the head themselves so i looked at him kind of skeptical looking for a bit more of an explanation and all he said was i was "fast habituater". well no duh all u had to do was ask about my drug problem u didnt have to hook me up to ur tortoure machine to figure that out.

so can u tell me what any of all this means?

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
IQ is only half the equation to true genius. I believe you also need low latent inhibition.

High IQ + High Latent Inhibition = a person who will likely contribute few new ideas of thoughts. I believe most people with high IQs fit this bucket and think of themselves as more valuable then they really are. An IQ of 180 means nothing if you cant be think creatively.

High IQ + Low Latent Inhibition = a person who is likely to change the world. This person is exceptionally rare.

The downside is that High IQ + Low Latent Inhibition = higher chance of going crazy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this fascinating and think it makes great sense.

Utah, do you have any books you've read on the subject - or something similar - that you'd recommend?

If you've got any other knowledge or ideas, please flex it/them /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
hey utah are u a psychologist and if u are i have a few questions for u?

back a few years ago when i was despearte for cash (which i am again now so i may have to start up this practice up again) but i was signing up to be an experimental guinea pig for all sorts of experiments.

the one im describing here i didnt qualify for but i did go through the prelim testing and the grad student guy who was running it was telling me a little about it and using the words ur talking about with latent inhibition and pre pulse inhinbition and schizophrenia and stuff. i didnt understand all of what he was saying, a little but so i was hoping u might be able to clarify a little better.

so when i got there they made me fill out a long questionaree mostly mental health type question stuff and then they sat me in a chair and made me stare at a wall a few feet ahead of me and put headpones on me and hooked up electrodes to my eyelids to measure my blinking response while they played this tape through the headpones. i guess it was about 20 minutes long or so and i cant recall exactly what the was on the tape but i remember that every once in a while their would be like an awful like i don't know how to describe it but "shreieking" type noise that u might hear in a horror movie that was pretty unpleaseant to say the least.

it was kinda of real weird since i knew they were observing my thoughts in an indirect way so i wasnt sure what i should be thinking since i sometimes have some pretty bizarre thoughts running through my head and i didnt know if i wanted them knowing how big of a weirdo i really was. but anyways at the end they plugged a few of my test numbers into an equation and they guy is like sorry u dont qualify but this is the highest score weve had and i used to have the highest.

so at first i thougth this might be a good thing but then i started remember how most people who go into psychologically are pretty fd in the head themselves so i looked at him kind of skeptical looking for a bit more of an explanation and all he said was i was "fast habituater". well no duh all u had to do was ask about my drug problem u didnt have to hook me up to ur tortoure machine to figure that out.

so can u tell me what any of all this means?

[/ QUOTE ]

My guess is that it sounds like the person testing you is looking to research behaviors of particularly smart people. Maybe not the behaviors directly, but information that can help predict behaviors.

It seems like the test you took is used to describe your sensitivity to fear - or something primitive similar to fear. As a different function, the results seemed to be plugged into a predetermined formula to gauge your raw intelligence - to see if you qualified as a "brilliant" person.

[whiskeytown]

I was in Mensa -

I never saw anything of Genius in anything worth mentioning - stuff just came real easy to me - nothing as a long term task was really out of the question if I wanted it because I could acquire/memorize the knowledge base easily.

I'm more interested in discussing the line between Genius and Insanity.

RB

[Praxis101]

[ QUOTE ]
I was in Mensa -

I never saw anything of Genius in anything worth mentioning - stuff just came real easy to me - nothing as a long term task was really out of the question if I wanted it because I could acquire/memorize the knowledge base easily.

I'm more interested in discussing the line between Genius and Insanity.

RB

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that this line is particularly interesting. It's also quite important. If geniuses are the ones presenting new ideas to important areas of life, I personally think that it would be very valuable to master the ability to help "geniuses" develop positively. ==> I kind of got this thought process from the first article mentioned in my OP.

I'm curious if you'd consider anyone you met through Mensa to be "truly brilliant" - whatever your interpretation of that may be. If so, what fields were they interested in?

Your post made it seem as if some intelligent people were/are spending their time in unimportant areas.

[diebitter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm also curious what kind of challenging acheivments you've made as a direct result of your gift (meaning accomplishment(s) an "average" mind would be limited from)

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear El D is a decent poker player. That might involve some level of intelligence.

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF? El D. plays poker?!?

[Praxis101]

Oh, and just as an FYI to anyone interested in this thread: I'm going to ask a mod to move it to the SMP forum, as I think it may be better suited for posters over there.

[Utah]

I dont have any specific materials. I did a lot of reading on the net and if you search you can find good info. I believe harvard medical school did some studies.

The only other knowledge is myself. The reason I did the search was that I was frustrated that I could easily solve problems that people who were much smarter than me could not solve at all. It causes one lots of problems when you can solve and see what others cant. I greatly wish I didnt have the ability.

[PartyGirlUK]

[ QUOTE ]


How many 2+2er's have been Mensa-tested as having an IQ above 140?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine was in the 160s, I took it when I was hmmm 10 years old.

[Jamougha]

[ QUOTE ]
all he said was i was "fast habituater". well no duh all u had to do was ask about my drug problem u didnt have to hook me up to ur tortoure machine to figure that out.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL

[Rduke55]

[ QUOTE ]
My guess is that it sounds like the person testing you is looking to research behaviors of particularly smart people. Maybe not the behaviors directly, but information that can help predict behaviors.

It seems like the test you took is used to describe your sensitivity to fear - or something primitive similar to fear. As a different function, the results seemed to be plugged into a predetermined formula to gauge your raw intelligence - to see if you qualified as a "brilliant" person.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't htink those tests had much to do with intelligence.

Normally, a person is flooded with sensory stimuli. Sane people filter this through a process called gating. Schizophrenics have problems gating.
One way gating is tested in the lab is using prepulse inhibition. Normally you have a startle response to a sudden sound. Then if they give a sound within a certain time period before the loud one the startle response is reduced due to the gating. Schizophrenics don't exhibit this reduction.

Also, wasn't the latent inhibition/genius stuff on Prison Break?

[LuckOfTheDraw]

[ QUOTE ]

What, exactly, defines a super-genius?

[/ QUOTE ] http://www.ugr.es/~javicruz/images/genius.gif

[CallYNotRaise06]

i took a test in psych class my senior year of highschool and scored the highest rank. cant remember the number, somewhere in the 130s... to bad im not as smart in poker...

[jws43yale]

I am not sure of my exact IQ as it has never been officially tested. I normally test between 145 and 160 on the online tests though. My father is in Mensa, and my SAT score was high though.

At Yale I have ran into a few true geniuses. I am talking people who had to have an IQ of 180+. In my upper-level calculus based econ class that I had to study my balls off to pull a B, I had a classmate who made a 100 on both the midterm and final (my score of around 70 was curved up to a B). This classmate regularly corrected the professor when he was covering the blackboard with equations.


On another not, my father knew at girl in college Chemical Engineering major (one of the hardest possible majors) who corrected a professor on some of the most ridiculous transport phenomena equations. This professor was head of the department at a top-10 public school and was still stunned when this happened. Problem sets that would take my father 8 hours working in a group of 4 would tkae this girl an hour to complete by herself. My dad said she was truly out of this world. But speaking of insanity, she committed suicide at the age of 26.

[evolvedForm]

[ QUOTE ]
i fell asleep during my test
took it drunk
got a 198
i rule



[/ QUOTE ]

SAT?

[siegfriedandroy]

are you kidding, dean!? i think i've found a new poker coach!!

[yukoncpa]

Hi,
If you tivo 60 minutes, check out today's episode. It featured musical idiot savant's that could not only mimic music and recognize 10 random notes plonked on a piano at once, but these kids were actually inventing music right in front of the interviewer. One kid was asked to play Beethoven in the style of Mozart, then in the style of Russian Dance music. If you played four notes for these kids, they could then take off with it and invent an wholly original melody. I was impressed.