Gutshot & Runner Runner Curiousity

[Mike Jett]

For some reason, im starting to think i have calculated this a bit too simply than what it actually boils down to.

When i flop a gutshot and 3 to a flush, what odds do i need assuming if i make either hand showing down, i win?

Originally, i figured i had 4 outs for a gutshot and i was drawing to 10 of my suit for the turn. But come to think of it, dont i have to make that suit draw twice?

So 14 outs, and then 13 outs for the river?

Is this wrong?

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[Bigka79]

no no no..14 outs and then 13 outs is way too high even if you figured it this way it would be 13 then 12 but that doesnt matter...i used to think about the outs this way before i read ed millers small stakes hold em book...when you want to make a runner runner (back door) flush or straight draw you give yourself 1.5 outs on the flop.

so you have a back door flush and gutshot on the flop you have about 5.5 outs...you need a big pot to make this call profitably.

however say on the turn you hit your suit and miss the gut shot then you are looking at 11 outs (3 non suit gut shots and the 8 of your suit left in the deck)..hope this helps