Party Advice

[TheWorstPlayer]

OK, I had a problem depositing at party and someone helped me out on a private table. I then got this email:

Dear Dov,

While running routine checks, we have detected some inconsistent game play between you and other player *XXX*. We strictly do not encourage this activity on our card room and would like to clarify this from you.

Please clarify your game pattern for the hand histories, mentioned in the attached document.

We cannot proceed with our investigations until we receive a clarification from you in this regard. Your account is on hold until we complete our investigation.

We expect your cooperation and understanding in this regard.

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you with your account related questions and suggestions.

Sincerely,

Betty Morrison,
Investigations Team
alerts@PartyPoker.com


The attached log obviously shows the "weird game play" including brilliant chat such as "ok, I bet you fold". Yes, I'm just that smart.

What's my play?

[Freerollin`]

I go the brutal honesty route. From what I know of you, it's clear that you weren't cheating...tell them to review any session that you've played in and find any signs of cheating aside from obvious joking discussions. Then add in that you're a winning high stakes player, and if you were inclined to cheat, you'd obviously be smart enough to do it discreetly and not in the chat box.

[Yeti]

Wow. Dude, this was so so dumb.

Another vote for honesty, although I think you are quite f'ed right now.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Maybe I didn't make the situation clear. I closed my Party account. Then I wanted to play on Party again. But I couldn't use my old Neteller account with my new Party account. So I set up Firepay. But Firepay has a 750/week limit initially. So I couldn't really deposit 10K too quickly, now could I? So I deposited the 750 and then had a friend transfer me some money. But the initial transfer limit is like 1K as well. So I was totally stumped and couldn't play poker. So I had a friend dump chips to me on a private table. It was this chip dumping that they are referring to. So I actually was "cheating" in a way, although obviously at no one's expense. How should I respond to Party who has now frozen my account?

I am leaning towards just the explanation given above with a promise that it will never happen again. But I would like to know if anyone else has had a similar experience, and what the results were, before responding. Thanks.

I currently have around 10K in the frozen account so obviously I will be pretty upset if somehow I lose access to those funds long term.

[Vavavoom]

I'm amazed that someone who has been on the boards for this long and is a pretty solid poster (sarcasm aside), would do something like this....

I think you should be as honest as u possibly can....But I think that you have lost your cash...And that would suck...

But rules are rules and they have to adhere to them ....

Vava

[Yeti]

Try posting this in the internet forum if you didn't already. Prepare to take more abuse though.

[DonButtons]

party can close your neteller account on a old account, and let you use it on a new one, it just takes time, anywhere from a couple hours to 72 hours.

chip dumping is a big no no...

[Allinlife]

haven't you seen enough chip dumping posts to know this is forbidden?

[CalvinTy]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I didn't make the situation clear. I closed my Party account. Then I wanted to play on Party again. But I couldn't use my old Neteller account with my new Party account. So I set up Firepay. But Firepay has a 750/week limit initially. So I couldn't really deposit 10K too quickly, now could I? So I deposited the 750 and then had a friend transfer me some money. But the initial transfer limit is like 1K as well. So I was totally stumped and couldn't play poker. So I had a friend dump chips to me on a private table. It was this chip dumping that they are referring to. So I actually was "cheating" in a way, although obviously at no one's expense. How should I respond to Party who has now frozen my account?

I am leaning towards just the explanation given above with a promise that it will never happen again. But I would like to know if anyone else has had a similar experience, and what the results were, before responding. Thanks.

I currently have around 10K in the frozen account so obviously I will be pretty upset if somehow I lose access to those funds long term.

[/ QUOTE ]
I understand the situation that you clarified for us, and I'm sure that sometimes friends need to xfer money to other friend's acct and basically "collude WITH *and* AGAINST each other" in chip dumping.

As some have pointed out, this is technically illegal even if it is consenually agreed upon. Besides, why give Party some rake in the process (unless you both were crafty with your math and avoiding giving rake every hand, lol)?

Advice for next time or for others, Party's "Inter-Account" transfer works like a charm... minimum $50 to transfer (and the donator must still have at least $50 left after the transfer).... but I can't recall the maximum amount, I admit. I think it was $10K because it was a problem during one MTT long time ago that I witnessed in where both final 2 players were in the mood to chop...but other players in chat pointed out it was not feasible becuz it was more than $10K. This was obviously before they thought of final table chop & blocking observer chats...

Just trying to help...

* CalvinTy

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
haven't you seen enough chip dumping posts to know this is forbidden?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. Never saw a chip dumping post.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Max is 1K per week for a new account. Obviously tried that first.

[Adde]

Perhaps your affiliate (I assume you have one, given the texture of your post) can help you out with good connections with some senior staff at Party?

Adde

[absentx]

Yeah I would ask your affiliate, and in general in the future, your affiliate might be able to help you out getting money into your account as well without breaking any rules.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Weird. Thanks for the tip.

[poker-penguin]

You are in serious trouble. Chip-dumping is a bad thing and sites try very hard to stop it.

One thing that might be in your defence is if your friend has had his account for a long time and is a net winner (so is less likely to be using a stolen credit card etc).

I'd fess up, explain the situation - definately don't try and pass it off as a joke or try and make up WPT justification for things. There's no innocent till proven guilty.

Admit what you did, apologise profusely, beg to be allowed back on the network, get your affiliate to help (sites listen to big affiliates).

[thatpfunk]

if caught chip dumping i know they normally close the account and feeze the cash.

but, do they ever let a player set up another account? if they tried with new information would they really stop a potential customer?

[The4Aces]

just tell the truth... you didnt know this was illegal and it wont happen again.

[MicroBob]

Obviously the collusion didn't hurt any other players...but Party doesn't like their tables to be used as a money-laundering service either which is essentially what you were doing.

I would really be sweating this situation if I were you.
I suspect that everything would work out fine...but there's no guarantee that this will happen.


This was a really dumb thing to do. Party claims to take pride in cracking down on colluders and chip-dumpers.


I can't believe you would do this.

[TheWorstPlayer]

The advice is great, thank you guys. I wrote back quickly just telling the honest truth and that I didnt know it was a problem and that I won't do it again. Here's hoping.

I could really live without the "I can't believe you would do this" though. I didn't realize they cracked down hard on this sort of thing if it didn't coincide with any weird withdrawals or whatever. The money is still on Party and is being played by an obvious winner in the games, so it didn't seem like something they should have a major problem with. Obviously that was wrong. But it's not like I robbed a bank, here.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
But it's not like I robbed a bank, here.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is Party supposed to know that?... when to them, it looks like you did, and you acted like all the other bank robbers they've caught! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheWorstPlayer]

I know! I'm just saying I don't need condescension from posters on this site who DO know that I didn't intend any harm! In any case, here is my response:

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Betty,

These hands show my friend transfering me money. I closed my Party account but then wanted to play poker again. So I opened a new account but found that I could not deposit with my neteller account. So I opened a Firepay account to deposit $10,000 with which I wanted to play.


However, I soon found out that Firepay has $750/week deposit limits so I would be unable to play high stakes seemingly for months. Therefore, I deposited the max on Firepay and then attempted to have a friend transfer me
the rest so that I could play. However, the transfer amounts were also limited, so I could still not get enough money onto Party quickly enough to play reasonable stakes in a reasonable timeframe.

Therefore, I had a friend transfer additional money to me as you see on a private table. Apologies if this is against the terms of use, I did not realize that fact and did not intend any harm, but only wanted to play poker. As you can see, I have continued to deposit rapidly into this account
and plan on continuing to do so. I guarantee you that I will never play hands like these again in the future.


Sincerely,
Dov

[/ QUOTE ]

And here is the response. Phew.

[ QUOTE ]
Dear Dov,

We thank you for your response. As stated in our previous message, the reason why your account was earlier placed on hold is because you are involved in transfer of funds on our tables. Please note that we do not allow these transfers to happen on our tables.

Any player, who would look at the table you are using to transfer money to your friends, would automatically assume that there is suspicious activity involved, which undermines PartyPoker.com reputation as an honest site.

Please note that our previous mail was not meant as an accusation, but it is a first step to resolve an unsatisfied situation. However, we request you to use our *Inter Account Transfer Feature* to avoid further misunderstandings.

Contact us anytime, we are available around the clock to assist you with your account related questions and suggestions.

Happy Holidays!

Sincerely,

Betty Morrison,
Investigations Team

[/ QUOTE ]

...and I can access my account again.

[Vavavoom]

Nice...Honesty is the best policy....

[jba]

how about your buddy?

[excession]

wow - Party in 'good customer support' shocker, huh

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TheWorstPlayer]

I don't know, but I'm guessing he'll be fine, too.

[GrannyMae]

....But I think that you have lost your cash...

he will *never* lose his funds for dumping as he described. worst case would be account closure if he has done this before, but even then he will get his cash.

most likely a slap on the wrist is all he will get.

http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/7/whip.gif

[Frequency]

Say you were extremely drunk and don't even remember doing that. State you are a long term successful player but going through some issues.

[Reef]

mods, please consider changing his title to something with 'chip dumper' in it. lol.

just tell them the truth. I think lying will make it worse

[iceman5]

I am an affiliate at Party. One of my players has been abusing bonuses for about a year. Ive been complaining to them for 8 months.

Last month he had a $1700 chargeback. They wont tell me how, but he mustve deposited money that he didnt have or used a stolen credit card or something.

They STILL wont ban the guy. He is still being allowed to play and abuse their bonus system. Im sure he'll rip them off again at some point (causing me to get screwed in the process again). Apparently they dont want to lose a player no matter what they do, so I cant imagine that they would ban TWP or take his funds for this minor infraction (when compared to my guy)

[bigballz]

How is he abusing bonuses? You only have him for 1 account, isn't he allowed to do them all?

[MicroBob]

Maybe the guy keeps using the same guy's affiliate banner for multiple accounts to get a free $100 over and over or something.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
How is he abusing bonuses? You only have him for 1 account, isn't he allowed to do them all?

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL... to an affiliate, a player with a negative MGR is a "bonus abuser"!!

Chalk it up to "cost of doing business"... no one said being an affiliate was easy money!

[MicroBob]

Sorry for previous condescension. Early hour of the morning before heading to bed...I've been sick lately and headachey...blah blah blah.

But I still am surprised that you would do such a thing.


Glad it worked out for you though. I agree that party's response in this matter was professional and correct.
It's just that, when dealing with Party, I don't take anything for granted.....so I would never dream of trying to circumvent the system like this.

[OldLearner]

[ QUOTE ]
no one said being an affiliate was easy money

[/ QUOTE ]

This has actually been stated on several occasions /images/graemlins/wink.gif