My Story: Yes Another One (Extremely Long)

[niwotyalpi]

Disclaimer: This story is 100 % true and it is very long. I am posting this for selfish reasons really. I feel like one of the greatest things in my life has come to an end, and I'm about to start on a journey that I may regret forever. In writing my story out, I hope to find the answers that I have been searching for, for almost 2 years. Here goes.....

First off, I am 25 years old and have been playing poker online since December 2003 and professionally since May 2004.

In August 2003 I moved to West Lafayette (Purdue Univ.) to start my senior year of college. Life couldnt have been better, me and my 4 roomates moved into a house on campus. I was going to graduate in May with a degree in Chemical Engineering and this was gonna be a year of partying and girls and well just plain stupidity. But alas something happened right away, the day after we moved in, our neighbors came over to say hi. There in walked the most beautiful blonde I had ever laid eyes on. The only thing better than her looks was her personality, and from the first time we met I knew she had to be mine. I spent the next 3 months courting her. We did everything together, we literally spent every waking moment outside of class together. We studied togther, we drank together, we laid around and watched movies together, we slept together. It was probably the best 3 months of my life.

Fast forward to December 2003. After watching the WSOP on TV for the 40th thousand time, I decided I'm ready to try me hand at online poker. I deposit several hundred in Party Poker and off I go. I am hooked immediately. Over the next 6 months, I proceed to not only forget that I have class, but my relationship with the girl who I loved more than anything started to deteriorate. I spent every waking second playing and thinking about poker. Not only were my grades and my relationship deteriorating, but so was my money. Between December 2003 and May 2004 I managed to fail a class and not graduate and I also blew through almost 5 K in loan money on poker.

So onto to May 2004. I have failed to graduate and have exactly 60 dollars in my bank account. I have now moved into the house next door and half of us guys and half of the neighbor girls are staying there. My girlfriend, the beautiful blonde from earlier, hates poker with a passion now. Not only did I fail to graduate b/c of it, but now all I do is play poker all day.

So with bills for the house due and 60 dollars still in my account (this is still May 2004), what do I plan to do. Well being the level headed poker player I am, I put the 60 on party poker and enter a 55 dollar MTT. Brilliant I know, but I figure with only 60 bucks and bills due in a few days, how many choices do I have. Whats a job? I was just praying to cash for a few hundred so I could pay the bills. Well God must have felt pitty on me b/c I won the tournament and the 5 K plus money for first place. Wow what a relief, I was 1 bad beat away from being broke with no job and no backup plan.

And hence begun my journey as a "pro". Now I was no where near a pro in terms of skill, but I was paying my bills with nothing but poker winnings, so I guess I was a "pro". So being the pro I was, I jumped right into the 200 NL games on Party (the highest they had at the time I believe) and just start gettting torn apart. Now, a smart guy would move down limits. Nah not me I proceeded to blow through alot of the money over the summer.

To top this off I still had to pay my tuition and room and board for next year with my own money. Remember I failed to graduate so I had to go back for another year (the class I failed could only be taken in the spring, Awesome I know). I never told my parents I didn't graduate, so I had to pay for everything myself.

On to Aug 2004. After paying my tuition, and getting my new apt. for the year I was down to about 850 in my bank account. No problem right? Thats more than enough of a roll to make consistent money playing poker. Yeah I'll just grind it out at 50 NL, but wait one of Party's Million dollar tournies is this weekend. One big score and I'm set. I can do it! 640 bucks later I'm out on the bubble and down to 210 bucks in my bank account. Wow I'm really beginning to get in deep now.

My relationship is still deteriorating at an exponential rate. My credit card balances are soaring b/c I'm using my credit cards to pay for everything so that I don't have to use my cash. God forbid I have to get a job and not play poker. Oh but wait I have 210 bucks still, I will just go down to 25 NL and grind out money to pay my bills. I know I'm a proven winner at those limits, so no problems.

It's Sunday, sometime in Aug. 2004 and what do I decide. [censored] it, grinding it out at 25 NL [censored] sucks. I will enter the quarter million with my final 200 something odd dollars and if I lose I will just cash advance my credit card and continue playing. I actually had to go to 25 NL and win a few bucks to be able to afford the 215.

So off we go in the quarter million. It's been so long I don't remember any specific hands from early in the tourney, but I remember being about to cry on the bubble. I was one of the very shortest stacks with about 10 to go before the money. I remember feeling so out of control and helpless. "What the [censored] am I doing I told myself?" "I'm about to go out short of the money and have to advance my credit cards." "This is so desperate." I pray to god that if he lets me money I will be done with this [censored]. Somehow I hang on and make it to the money. I make it to the money with the absolute shortest stack in the tournament, but then something happens. I go on a rush of cards that I couldn't even believe. In the span of 5 hands after the bubble, I have gone from the shortest stack to above average in chips. AA back to back hands. Then KK about 2 hands after that. Now all of the sudden I have gone from being out on the bubble to being a force. It goes from 200 to 150 to 100 to 50. To make a long story short, I finish 12th for 2900 bucks. So once again I escape without really learning my lesson.

Fastforward 1 month to Sep. 2004. Now I am smoking hot. I final table 3 huge MTT's in 1 day on PP to add another 5 K to my bankroll. I'm invincible now. My BR is up to about 8 K and I'm convinced I play NL holdem better than anybody. I need bigger stakes I thought. I'll move to UB. Well you know where this story is heading. Lets just say my 8 K BR and my NL skills weren't quite enough on either end for the 5/10 NL games on UB. I even jumped into the 25/50 game on UB with my last 1000 late one night before quickly getting off and talking some sense into myself.

During this time, what I am losing more than money is my girlfriend. I'm getting in deeper and deeper and falling farther and farther away from her. The girl that I once loved more than anything is getting farther and farther away from me b/c of my obsessive addiction to poker.


Fast forward to Dec. 31 2004. New years eve. I'm up to my ears in debt. My credit cards are maxed. I have limited funds in my poker account. I decide my last option is to play the step tournaments on Party. I have about 300 bucks and figure I can parlay that into big money in the steps. Alas I know you guys want a bad ending for me, but once again an angel is riding on my shoulder.

In a 3 day period starting on new years eve 2004 I manage to go from step 1 to 5 twice, YES TWICE, AND I won them both. Actually one was a chop that I think I posted about on here, can't remember.

I can honestly say I have not been close to broke since. I finally learned that BR management and discipline were even more important than just playing great. I honed my skills at the limits my skill level and bank roll were appropriate for.

But tonite boys I lost something far greater than any amount of money I ever lost. The beautiful blonde that I wanted to spend my life with from the time I saw her has finally said goodbye. She says she can no longer take my obsession with poker. And I can't say I blame her. I haven't been the man she needs or deserves since that first 3 months that we spent together. We shed alot of tears tonite and I can't help but think that the path I have chosen is gonna end up haunting me for the rest of my life.

You see I am a real professional now, with a real BR, real BR management skills, and real game. I'm everything I strived to be for the last 2 years as a poker player. I've finally put it all together. I just got back from a Vegas trip where in almost 40 hours at the table I never felt like there was anyone playing at the level I was playing. I felt like I was playing a game of poker that noone else at the table was even remotely familiar with. It was a great feeling that after so many bumps and bruises along the way, I had finally become the player that I always wanted to be.

And you know what..... I don't even know if this is what I want anymore. I just lost the most beautiful person inside and out who has ever entered my life. And for what, a [censored] game. I have been so set on becoming the best poker player that I can be the last 2 years, that I forgot about the most important thing of all, life. That poker is just a game and sooner or later it will probably come to an end for me. And what then.....I am going to look back and wish I had done things differently. I have alot to think about.


I hope at least 1 person reads this story and relates it to themselves and maybe thinks twice about the path I've chosen. I was given 3 miracles in my poker life. I was down to the felt 3 times and made the wrong choices only to be rewarded. Now I finally have it all together poker wise. But at the cost of my personal life and relationships. Was the cost of becoming a great player with a real chance to make it as a pro too high? I'm beginning to think so. Thanks for reading.

[chesspain]

You are a degenerate gambler, and you will go broke again. The fact that you believe that you now have bankroll management sense and poker skills far beyond anyone with whom you play suggests that your powers of self-delusion are only getting stronger. I only hope that when you crash and burn again you won't take down any innocent loved ones. In fact, I also hope that your very codependent ex-girlfriend gets herself to a good therapist, since her willingness to stay with you during your two year poker odyssey strongly suggests that there will be other addictive men in her future.

[tongni]

Stick to tournaments.

[istewart]

[ QUOTE ]
You are a degenerate gambler, and you will go broke again.

[/ QUOTE ]

rofl

[Exsubmariner]

Go get on your knees and beg her to take you back. NEVER PLAY POKER AGAIN.

[captZEEbo]

did you ever finish college...you said you were still going to go back, right? I assume you didn't. I'd probably try to graduate since you were so close.

[rwanger]

Thanks for sharing.

It seems that you've discovered that it's almost impossible to be emotionally/spiritually/etc fulfilled by onlye on thing in life, one thing that becomes an obsession.

It's all about balance.

Sadly, it's advice you can't give anyone, because they will need to find out for themselves, as you did.

[Perseus]

I play "professionally" too, but only while I'm taking grad classes to become a teacher.

Please don't let poker get in the way of your relationships. If this is the girl you really wanted to marry wouldn't you rather have a part time job/play poker some and have the girl, rather than poker all the time without a girl.

Internet porn can only get your so far in life...take the extra step and get the girl back.

The funny thing is that you understand you are losing her playing poker, you already know you are going to regret it, but instead of doing something about it you have come to accept how you screwed up.

It's not too late (at least it doesn't sound like it is).

Balance is key...

Jon

[JustToast]

This story is very sad. Your life decisions are so much more important than your poker hand decisions and you got that backwards.

Quit poker, get the girlfriend back, get a job, get a life.

Life > Poker. It's just a game.

[jjackal]

You scare me. If you have doubts about going pro now, think about where you will be an year from now. I see it as a curse that you hadn't gone broke yet- if you had, you would still have the girl, and you would have already graduated. If you didn't have the fortitude to finish your last semester at school, you definitely don't have what it takes to be a "professional," whatever that means.

[niwotyalpi]

chess,

Deep down I know what you say is true. Even though it has been almost a year since I have been broke, I can't help but think that I am destined to be there again. I appreciate your words, this is the kind of brutal honesty that I need to hear.

[niwotyalpi]

Jackal,

Yes it is both a curse and a blessing I never went totally broke b/c maybe then I would have learned the hard way. Instead I guess I was fooled into believing this was my path. Oh and I did finish school. Toughed it out the entire year the next year and graduated in May 2005, so all is not totally lost. I do have a ChE degree to fall back on if I ever wise up. Thanks for the comments.

[niwotyalpi]

[ QUOTE ]
Stick to tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]


Tongni,

I've got to admit this made me chuckle just a little. I knew there would be many like this, but this is why I like 2 + 2. Just when something gets too serious there are a few of these to lighten the mood.

[beavens]

cut back on poker, get the girl back, graduate if you haven't, get a normal job, play poker as a hobby.

i love poker too, but i'm not going to diss my gf because i want to play. you can always find some time to play when it won't cause a hassle. and as long as you aren't playing 24/7, any reasonable girl won't care if you spend a night or two a week just playing cards.

[niwotyalpi]

[ QUOTE ]
Go get on your knees and beg her to take you back. NEVER PLAY POKER AGAIN.

[/ QUOTE ]

sub,

This is prolly the best advice of the thread so far. Thanks for reading and commenting.

[niwotyalpi]

Zeebo,

Yes I did tough it out and graduate the following year with the chemical eng. degree. Even though poker was clouding my judgements and life, I knew that I needed something to fall back on when I hit rock bottom. I guess in that sense I knew in the back of my mind I needed something outside of poker.

I guess one of my goals in posting this was just to get my story out. I think I have finally come to realize that I'm heading down a path of self destruction, no matter how good I think I play poker, b/c I'm always gonna be a gambler and want to play higher and higher. In a sense, I am very lucky b/c I did manage to finish school, and I still have a girlfriend and a family that love me very much.

But I'm sure there are more out there besides me who can relate to this story. And maybe there only sophomores or juniors in college and they do drop out to chase this so called "dream" of mine. Maybe there story doesn't end up as well as mine. Maybe they lose everybody and everything and have nothing to fall back on. B/c that is the path I was on, and still am on to a large extent. I can still quit now and go on with my life, but for some it will forever be too late. I feel like I'm very fortunate to still have the opportunity to move on with the rest of my life....

Now the hard part is actually taking this opportunity and using it, before it is too late for me as well.

[dwedeking]

[ QUOTE ]

Internet porn can only get your so far in life...

[/ QUOTE ]

LIES!!! All Lies!!!! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

It wasn't poker that caused your problems it was your inability to control yourself. The good news is that if it wasn't poker, it would have been booze, chicks or bowling.

[Songwind]

How serious are you about this girl? If you really want a shot at getting her back, make an appointment with a psychologist, and get yourself evaluated for obsessive or addictive disorders. Your compulsion to play poker to the exclusion of all else despite the evidence that it was a bad idea is worrisome in the extreme.

If you take some steps first, then contact her again and the whole abject apology/begging/weeping thing, with this evidence of action on your part to fix the problem, she might just give you another chance. And even if she doesn't, you'll have already done yourself a world of good by getting help.

Maybe you can be a pro poker player. I know precisely nothing about how you play, so I won't venture a guess. But none of that is going to matter if you're not straight in your head and going about it rationally.

[niwotyalpi]

[ QUOTE ]
How serious are you about this girl? If you really want a shot at getting her back, make an appointment with a psychologist, and get yourself evaluated for obsessive or addictive disorders. Your compulsion to play poker to the exclusion of all else despite the evidence that it was a bad idea is worrisome in the extreme.



[/ QUOTE ]

Song,

Your right in that my obsessive/addictive behaviors are very troublesome. When I think about my life I think of a quote by Lawrence Taylor (LT). In an interview he says, " I could never do anything in my life halfway."

This sums me up to a tee. Whether it be drinking, poker, etc. I always take everything to the extreme.

[niwotyalpi]

[ QUOTE ]
I've never understood why people have uncontrollable obsessions to play way over their heads when they're terrible at poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

wutt,

It is really not that hard of a concept to comprehend. It's called addiction, and it really has no correlation to how good or bad you play. If your gonna try to be funny, at least be a little witty about it.

[niwotyalpi]

I tried to reply to most of you. I appreciate the words, both the encouragement and the honesty, I know its not too late for me. I just have to be willing to take that step. I'm going out for awhile. I will reply more later tonite or tommorrow.

And if anyone reading this thread says to themselves, "That kinda sounds like me, but I'm not near as bad as him." Don't kid yourself b/c it only gets deeper and deeper. I can remember reading a few similar threads to this 12-15 months ago on here and thinking, "Wow that almost sounds like me, but I have better control over it." Uhhhh, yeah sure I did.

[madnak]

You acknowledge that you should quit playing poker. But you wonder whether you'll be able to do so. See a therapist and get help quitting, poker is definitely not a good thing for you.

At a minimum, take a break for a year, get a normal job. Then after the year look back and reevaluate. How does poker look now that you have a basis for comparison?

But you should definitely stop playing now.

[Riverman]

"I'm always gonna be a gambler and want to play higher and higher"

This is your biggest problem. You claim you have learned money management, but it sounds to me like you will be broke again soon. Stick to a plan, and only move up when you reach pre-determined bankroll levels. Or better yet, be an engineer and play for fun on the weekends. I am not trying to be harsh, but you sound pretty compulsive and borderline sick.

[niwotyalpi]

[ QUOTE ]
"I'm always gonna be a gambler and want to play higher and higher"

This is your biggest problem. You claim you have learned money management, but it sounds to me like you will be broke again soon. Stick to a plan, and only move up when you reach pre-determined bankroll levels. Or better yet, be an engineer and play for fun on the weekends. I am not trying to be harsh, but you sound pretty compulsive and borderline sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

River,

Yeah I guess I should specify what I mean by BR management skills. I no longer allow myself to get down to the felt, but I do still push it way to far, as far as limits go. For example here is my usual cycle. I roll up about 10 K and I immediately feel the need to jump in and start playing every $200 plus MTT on the web every weekend along with sitting in the PL O/8 600 and higher games. I bust down to around 2-3 K, and then I go back to grinding at the 100 and 200 PL O/8 tables. Rinse and repeat. And while I'm living fine, paying my bills and what not. I have been from 2 K to 10 K and back probably 6-7 times this year.

I guess unless I quit forever I am destined to live this never ending cycle until I inevitably go all the way down to the felt and go broke. And when this finally happens it will also be too late to go back to the girl. Then where will I be left. Broke and Alone.

[niwotyalpi]

I'm going out for the night with some friends to have a few beers. I appreciate all the responses so far, and I will be back on in the morning to respond to anyone else who might post.

I was very hesitant to post this at first, b/c I usually don't reply or post anything personal on the board, but after getting peoples opinions who actually play poker it really puts it into perspective how bad my problem is. If a board full of poker players says I have a problem then dear lord I do have real problem, lol.

I guess chess summed it up best when he said I am a degenerate and destined to go broke again. I know deep down that I am just fooling myself into thinking I can do this responsibly. No matter how good I may or may not play, or how much money I win, it will never be enough to overcome my compulsion to play higher and higher without the proper funds or discipline.

[niwotyalpi]

One more thing for the night:

To answer the question: "How serious are you about girl?"

Lets just say that I have known for a long time that I have a problem with playing way over my head without the proper bankroll (addictive gambler in other words). This girl has been my rock, she has been there through thick and thin, she is the one who convinced me to finish college that last year, she is the one person that can still make me forget about poker when we are together.

And all this, is what has me so scared and caused me to post my story. B/c for the longest time I have been standing in a pool of quicksand, but she has been my rope that was tied to the tree that has kept me from sinking all the way. And if I lose her I am afraid of how low I might sink into this never ending cycle.

[beavens]

You need to see a therapist or shrink. You may realize you have a problem, but you don't seem to be doing anything about fixing it. You won't be able to stop playing cold turkey, so work on cutting down how much you play a day/week/month.

Poker isn't worth letting your life spin out of control.

[teddyFBI]

I wanted to be the first to throw in a YSSCKY into this thread, only to think that given the sad tone of the post, it might be taken a little too seriously.

Email all of the poker sites where you have accounts and tell them you have a problem and ask them to not only close your accounts, but put you on a watch list to make sure you can't start again.

[Exsubmariner]

Than why are you posting and not following it?

[Bullet_Dodger]

Sad story. But remember, its never too late to change. Its never too late to change who you are as a person, your relationships, etc. At the very least threads like these should help people who read this and might be able to avoid similar situations.

I always put limits to poker. I play online poker for just 150 minutes a day max, (2 1/2 hours) and only go over that if im in the middle of a tourney. Every day I try to do atleast something else, whether its lifting weights, training for sports, or just hanging out with friends. Poker is better when its a secondary thing IMO.

BTW, get back that girl man. I haven't found that special girl yet, one that has the looks and personality. You were one lucky dude to find it, and youll regret it if you dont get her back.

[uncleshady]

Good story. I hear lots of stories like this being as I live in Vegas, and Im a college student as well so I know about the "5K loan" syndrome. Stories like yours are a little different than most though, your story in particular sounds more like the hard luck stories that all the big time pros go through on the way up, which I guess you can interpret as the silver lining in the dark cloud that has been your past couple of years.

Damn near sounds like Rounders...

Good luck in your future, and I bet you wish you met this girl last week instead of two years ago now that your head is on straight, huh? Hope you find a way to get her back.

[dafor11]

Get your priority straight. Having this girl is like flopping a royal flush, that is how rare it happens in life. You don't want to fold this hand because it beats everything else. Treat your poker addiction as 4 of kind if you want.

[phiphika1453]

Think about this....

Say you make it to the WSOP and even win say a bracelet and $350,000. Will that replace the feeling of holding the blonde, smelling her hair, looking in her eyes and knowing that she will the woman that loves you forever?

I love my fiance and if it came to this point I would drop poker so F*#%ing fast. I know you realize the correct thing to do but it is going to take some serious counseling to make yourself stop this destructive behavoir.

I wish you the best of luck, and it might not be a bad idea to let her stumble onto this post so she will realize that you truly are sorry.

Good luck with life and the girl; SCREW POKER!!!! (until you get help)

[NotMyJob]

niwotylapi-

Thank you for posting this. I was actually going to post my own story, a similar story to yours but not nearly as drastic and extreme. And yes it was going to be solely for the fact I'm disgusted with myself and need others to tell me I'm an idiot and need help. I too have the same tendencies you have, such as gambling at higher limits when you know you can't afford too, and always striving for that one big hit that will save me.

Instead of entering tourneys however I just move up to 400 NL and 600 NL when I lose one or 2 buy ins at 100 and 200 NL with less than 15-20 buy ins. Pretty sick and degenerate if you ask me. After losing my bankroll so many times and going broke I too somehow have an angel on my shoulder that has helped me go on a sick run, literally running 50 and 100 dollar deposits into 2-3k in a matter of a few days right when I need it.

I am no means a bad player or a losing one, I still have managed to come up with a decent profit off this game, but the money made doesn’t even come close to reflecting the time I have put into playing. I have read quite a few books have pretty decent hand reading skills but I have absolutely no discipline or consideration to bankroll management and I always end up losing most of my bankroll or all of it.

Last week I started with 100 dollar bonus turned that into 1700 in like 3 days and somehow only managed to cash out 400 with 100 dollars remaining in my poker account. The week before that I logged onto my poker account drunk and lost my whole bankroll in less than an hour. Time and time again I crash and burn but never learn from my retarded mistakes.

I have been reflecting heavily on whether or not poker is worth it in this time of my life, being in my prime under 20 years old and still in my first two years of college. I love this game dearly have put massive amounts of time and effort into learning and playing the game well yet I still can’t fix my leaks. On top of that I have to admit I am addicted and a lot of things in my life have been set aside to make room for poker.

I have decided even though I love this game and feel like it would be a waste to just walk away from it after spending all this time learning it, I feel like I have too. Life is too important to waste playing a silly card game that will always be around. My youth is too important and I know if I keep playing, my social life and grades will continue to deteriorate. So thanks niwotylapi for bringing this issue out in the open. Although you didn’t make my decision for me you defiantly made it clearer what I need to do.

[john kane]

take 1 day off. completely off. have plenty of sleep the night before. go on a bus/train to somewhere you've never really been before, 20/30 minutes away. go into a cafe into a corner table with a pen and paper and write down exactly what you want; girl wise, job wise, poker wise. write down how you can get to these goals, and if you need to make sacrafices, decide how is the best way to make sure you stick to such sacrafices.
the reason why i suggest doing this somewhere which isnt commonplace for you is i personally find my decisions are influenced by where i am, say if im at home with nobody in, then ill play online poker even if i know i should be doing some college work, whereas if im down the pub with a few mates, ill drink and generally not think about playing poker, unless im drinking with poker mates when we'll all think 'lets play cards'. dont know if ive made that clear, but your thoughts are often decided by who your with and where you are, take yourself away from both of these for to get a clear mind and decide what path you want to take.

i wish you all the best. and never play higher than your bankroll - the way i think about it is this; no matter how good i am, if im playing above my limits i will go bust at some time in the future; you cant be a good poker player if you play above your bankroll. keep telling yourself that.

personally, i think you've let yourself get too 'into' this girl. imo, you should never let one other individual control your feelings so much. this is being said by a single guy. just that for me there are so many different things which make me happy - friends, poker, sport, i wouldnt want one girl to mean that no matter if im with friends, playing poker, watching sport, i couldnt fully enjoy them because 'i didnt have the girl'. if she means that much to you, you have become dependent upon her, something i think you need to get away from.

this may be bad advice, but its just my advice.

[niwotyalpi]

NotMyJob,

Thanks very much for sharing a little of your experiences. Some of the things you said are the exact things that I feel, such as....

"always chasing that one big hit"

I'll have 3-4 K in my account and I will just up and buy into Party's Million dollar tourney for 640 bucks. Now any rational poker player knows that buying into a tourney for 1/6 of your bankroll is pure madness, but yet I still do it time and time again. B/c I'm chasing that 1st place and the 200 K pay day.


And you have one sentence that sums me up perfectly....

"I am no means a bad player or a losing one, I still have managed to come up with a decent profit off this game, but the money made doesn’t even come close to reflecting the time I have put into playing."

Wow does this hit home except at the extreme for me. With the time I have put in this year I should have 75-100 K in my account.

I want people who are thinking "Well your just not very good." to understand something about my story. I actually changed the name in my profile last night, b/c I realized that I had my real name in there. I did this b/c I have a few friends who know about this forum, and I am afraid that if this thread gets too big they may stumble across it. I know what you guys are thinking, "Surely they will know that its you from the story." Thats the thing, they won't. (Well they might b/c I've gotten so detailed, such as telling my college and degree, but at least now they don't have solid proof its me.) They see me paying my bills, and always having money to go out when they ask me. They have no idea about my story. Some of the things I am telling you guys on here they wouldn't believe if I told them. They have no idea what a destructive cycle I'm living. To them, everything seems great. They think I have the dream life, playing poker all day and partying when I feel like it (which is rarely b/c i'm always playing poker.)

To anyone out there who is saying, "Well that sounds like me a little bit, but I'm a winning player." Don't be foolish. I am absolutely 100 % positive that I am a winning player. I am so sure that if anyone from the O/8 forums reads this I would be willing to PM them my screen names on both Party and Stars and they could look up my stats for the PL O/8 games and verify it. You see for me it's not about making money, it's about keeping it. If I won a tourney today for 10-15 K I would be back down to 2-3 K prolly within a week. B/c my mindset is warped by the sick compulsion to make more and more and more. There are many, many days where I will make between 500 and 1 K, 6 tabling the PL O/8 100 and 200 tables and then at the end of a long session (12-15 hours) I will take that 1 K or 500 or whatever and jump right into the PL 1000 game and lose every cent of the days profit.

As embarrasing as this it to admit. I play between 60 and 80 hours per week. Yes, I play a minimum of 8-10 hours a day. And yes I know that sounds sick, b/c it is. There are days I wake up go straight to the computer, play 15 hours, then go back to sleep.

I've never really calculated this out for some reason, but its gotta be just stupid. During the past year of playing 60 + hours per week for 50 some odd weeks I have a grand total of 2 K for my BR at this very moment. So lets just say I have played 3000 hours of poker this year, and trust me this is a very generous estimate. It's prolly closer to 4000, but anyway. I prolly spend 650 a month on bills and other [censored](rent, utilities, cell, etc.) When you rarely leave your place, you don't spend much money besides bills :/

So 650, times 12, plus the 2 K I have currently. Thats roughly 10K. Divide that by the 3-4 thousands hours I have played this year. I am making a whopping $3 dollars an hour playing poker. Which equates to much less b/c I have no insurance or anything.

Yeah this is a great life I have :/ I'm making 3 bucks an hour and I just lost the greatest thing that ever happened to me. Dear [censored] lord, and to think that I still am having severe trouble deciding what I should do. To any rational human the choice looks so easy its sick. Take the girl, say [censored] poker forever, and get a job. I have a degree in Chemical Eng. for christs sake, and I'm "working" for $3 an hour, no benefits, and no [censored] girlfriend (anymore).

So goes an addiction I guess....

[galahad_187]

Wow, i've read dozens of poker stories on these forums and not one of them has gotten me sad; i acually got a little misty. I think it's because i know my GF isn't crazy with the idea of me wanting to be a live play poker pro. she knows i (mostly) have control of my emotions while i play and (completely) have control of my bankrol management. But she, like i, knows that theres still a gamble involved and a risk of bust - she likes garentees. The thought that i could be in your spot 2 years from now scared me for a moment.

Do what john kane said - write down what you want, and take every step to get there. After you make a list - regardless of whats on it, go see and talk to a professional. Given the severity of your addiction/the possible level of your depression - this, in my opinion, isn't something that should be handeled on your own/with your drinking buddies.

As far as the girl goes. In my non professional opinion the following will help greatly - See a psychologist or some other professional - take all your money off of gambling sites (which you may want to do for a little while anyway, even if you reroll yourself in a month) get a real job, then send her a letter - don't call her yet. Even it's an email contact her in a way where emotion won't be involved. I say this because phone calls will involve a great deal of emotion - and thus may be viewed as an act of despiration and thus she may believe your changes are temporary. If you do decide what you want more than anything is your girl, it'll take alot to get her back. Not to make this sound impossible but i know that, for the most part, if a girl hangs on for that long to someone she loves and finally brings herself let go, it may be too late. you'll really have to show her the old you is back. It's obvious she wanted you more than anything so it took /alot/ to get her to leave.

Just please, for your sake, talk to someone who can really help you. Maybe just call a tony robins hotline or something.

best of luck and my prayers are with you,

galahad

[niwotyalpi]

I'm gonna sign off here for a few days and try to clear my head. I appreciate all the advice, both kind and harsh, that you guys have given me. As much as people are smart asses on here all the time it's nice to see that most of you guys/gals are great people who were willing to take the time to write honest from the heart advice.

I agree with the posters who say that I prolly can't do it on my own. I mean I acknowledge that I have a problem, but I haven't solved it yet. I keep saying, "I will quit next month, just 1 more month, and on and on."

I realize I might never be able to play "recreationally" b/c thats just not my nature. I have an addictive personality. I can't drink recreationally, and I damn sure have proven I can't play poker recreationally.

I know my story is extreme, but it didn't start out that way. A year ago I thought I was fine, that I could handle it. After every implosion where I blew through 5 or 6 K in a weekend, and built it back up. I would say "I'm never doing that again." But inevitably it happens.

My girlfriend told me in the very beginning to stop playing before I got addicted. She knew I had an addictive personality (to say the least). If I had just taken that advice then it would have been much easy. Now its not advice she is giving, it is a final ultimatum. "Quit right now and never play again, or I'm am walking out of your life forever."

I'm ready to deal with this. I'm gonna look into getting professional help b/c honestly I know better than to think I can do this on my own. I'm in too deep.

If anyone takes anything away from my story. It's this...
Don't let it get this bad. Like I said, 1 year ago if you would have told me I'd be where I'm at today I would have laughed and said "Right." When I first started playing I had dreams, but they weren't about poker. I had 6 months of college left. I had a great girlfriend, awesome job prospects to be an engineer. We had dreams of marriage, and a family, and living a beautiful life together.

Now I have dreams of when the next time I'm going Vegas. And even through my cloud of addiction, I realize deep down that this is very, very sad.

I can barely stand to think about the pain I must have caused my beautiful little girl in the past year when I kept choosing poker over her. The fact that she left after hanging on for so long just tells me how hurt she is and how desperate she knows my situation is. And to think about that brings tears to my eyes.

I'm dealing with this right now. B/c this is it for me, today, now. There is no tommorrow b/c tommorrow she isn't gonna be there.

I won't be on the board for awhile b/c obviously reading this site about poker everyday is not gonna help me. I will stop in and update my story sometime for any of you that care. Whether my story ends good or bad, well I guess thats up to me.

Thank you all for your kind words and advice. Best of Luck to each and every one of you.

[obsidian]

Get help man. You need it.

[sumdumguy]

This is a new day and a new year.
Not a bad day to start a new life!

.. and good luck.

[raze]

K dude, all the unnecessary drama and emphasis makes your story seem inflated or flat out BS. You cant possibly be a successful pro given your tendencies. You chose money over the perfect woman? Very dramatic story, but stop watching so much TV and get a life man, seriously.

[NotMyJob]

[ QUOTE ]
K dude, all the unnecessary drama and emphasis makes your story seem inflated or flat out BS. You cant possibly be a successful pro given your tendencies. You chose money over the perfect woman? Very dramatic story, but stop watching so much TV and get a life man, seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great advice.... I hope you don't interact with people outside of the internet.

[raze]

[ QUOTE ]
Disclaimer: This story is 100 % true

You see I am a real professional now, with a real BR, real BR management skills, and real game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buddy are you kidding me? It reads like an [censored] infomercial

[fm191124]

[ QUOTE ]
You are a degenerate gambler, and you will go broke again. The fact that you believe that you now have bankroll management sense and poker skills far beyond anyone with whom you play suggests that your powers of self-delusion are only getting stronger. I only hope that when you crash and burn again you won't take down any innocent loved ones. In fact, I also hope that your very codependent ex-girlfriend gets herself to a good therapist, since her willingness to stay with you during your two year poker odyssey strongly suggests that there will be other addictive men in her future.

[/ QUOTE ]
i must say i agree with chess, from what said above i think there is no way you wont do it again, (hater, i know, but honest opionion)

but if you want any shot at getting your lady freind back, forward her this, but she must have been delusional to stay with you this long (no offense)

[Dan BRIGHT]

[ QUOTE ]

Internet porn can only get your so far in life...

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I'm looking at internet porn right now. Its pretty good and I think you might be underrating it.

[centgas]

TAKE YOUR WHOLE ROLL AND TAKE IT TO VEGAS AND ENTER THE WSOP!!!

Sound stupid? Well thats your attitude so far...

Sort of been in your position, and with BJ for a while before I discovered poker. You are living a very dangerous game.

Give up poker completely and get the girl back, and do not resent her for it. I am currently putting poker ahead of university which is stupid and must be sorted.

Normally I would say give it up for a while and then when you are stable with the girl re introduce poker and allocate time for each. But your desparate (emotionally) and addictive nature means you cannot do this. Poker isn't everything and may not last forever. If she really is the one, she is the most important thing.

[poker_n00b]

nice read

[ur2god]

you sound more like a gambling addict more than a poker
player.

[geormiet]

This is definitely one of the more interesting threads I've read on 2p2 in a while. Thanks for sharing.

[Ansky]

Jesus Christ... Stop playing poker. Go get your [censored] girl back, and stop ruining your life.

[BigSoonerFan]

I visit West Lafayette quite a bit. What's that girl's name? Do you have her number?

[illin8]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and I did finish school. Toughed it out the entire year the next year and graduated in May 2005, so all is not totally lost. I do have a ChE degree to fall back on if I ever wise up. Thanks for the comments.


[/ QUOTE ]

Dude,

One question for you about this. When the time comes and you hit rock bottom and abandon poker after realizing what it has done to your life, and that it is OK because you have this ChemE degree under your belt....

What are you going to say when applying for a job? I definately want to be there during your interview with a company when you have to explain what you've been doing with yourself since you earned that degree and your level of professional motivation or lack thereof.

Good luck...

[A_Junglen]

Well here's my advice. Some of which may already be said (I'm not reading all the pages of responses) and some of which you may have already done.

Take a few steps back. Really. Literally. Go lay down and just think about everything. Attempt to prioritize everything in your life. Be strict to yourself.

Don't take all of these responses to heart (including this one) Some are more serious than others.

See a psychatrist. Simply talking stuff out often helps.

Live life. I know it's awesome to eat sleep and play poker, but there's more to life than poker (something I'm just learning). Spend 2 weeks away from poker and just try to have fun.

Good luck re-learning the value of money if you do get a real job. That will honestly be a huge struggle.

[paigowmaster]

[ QUOTE ]
To top this off I still had to pay my tuition and room and board for next year with my own money. Remember I failed to graduate so I had to go back for another year (the class I failed could only be taken in the spring, Awesome I know). I never told my parents I didn't graduate, so I had to pay for everything myself.

[/ QUOTE ] wait... usually your parents would be at your graduation with you right? Did you use photoshop and crop some pictures?

[HoldenFoldem]

the contrarian:

In the end , you must follow your heart.

Not everyone wants wife, kids, dog , house, mortgage, 9-5.

When you are playing, how do you feel??

If you gave it all up, how would you feel??

Do you not really want to know /find out just how good you can be??

Can you control any self destructive tendencies in this picture??

My old neighbour, Mr Davidson, who worked for the bus company, once said to me: "Girls are like buses, there is always another one." I'm not undermining your girlfriend. I am saying that you can't live your life to suit someone else. If poker is your dream, pursue it. The thing is, you don't have to be a derelict bum in doing so. Poker, and "successful" are not two mutually exclusive realms.
I have read many, many biographies of famous people. They share some common attributes. The pertinent ones in your case are:
1. they pursue their own dreams.
2. their behavior is obsessive in the pursuit of that dream. (obsessive and destructive are not the same thing) You can pursue poker without being broke. Obsessive means you spend most of your time doing it. ie Tiger Woods and golf = obsessive but not self destructive. You must sort that out. If your pursuit was golf , and you were obsessed by it, how much different would your story be?? I figure not much.
Obsessiveness has its price. You have little or no time for meaningful relationships, except family, until you perfect you skills.
So there's a contrarian view.
You can examine the issue two ways:

-with your heart (as most people don't)
-rationally (as most people do)

Its yoiur choice to make. Get all the input you want; then hash it thru and choose.
Good luck.

[freewheeler]

contrarian view is awesome. It's so easy to see that this guy is "sick" and he knows it, but can't do anyhting about it... But that's a cop-out. The guy is obviously intelligent and capable of playing winning poker. What he needs to do is figure out how to control himself. He's young and not too mature. IMO, what's missing more than anyting else is the element of spirituality. Look deep within yourself and figure out what's important to you. Meeting the blond is not "flopping a royal flush". She's just a girl. There are lots of interesting girls, some of whom might be candidiates for long term committed relationship. But whoever she is, if it's going to work out, she has to understand that you are a gambler. You're not going to change. She needs to HELP you CONTROL yourself, not always resent that you are a gambler and try to change you. Do NOT spend the rest of your life trying to convince yourself that you can't gamble. Understand that you are what you are and CONTROL YOURSELF. THINK about the choices you make. You probably do need help, but not from some damn shrink or therapist who thinks you're "sick", but from someone who understands and accepts you. And can pull you back in when you are tempted to get tilty. Try your best to understand who you are - and are not - and be who you are. A gambler is a big part of that to be sure, but there's also a lot more. You will also find much pleasure and satisfaction from other things than gambling. Good luck on your quest. I pray that you will find your peace. And that goes for all the rest of you, too. Amen.

[chicagoY]

Your problem is an obsessive compulsive personality and not poker. Seek help and a daily script.

[solucky]

Try to get the girl back. Look for a Job and play poker as a profitable Hobby, perhaps she accept something like 15/20 hours/week as a " second job ".

wish you luck

[Borknagar]

[ QUOTE ]
On to Aug 2004. After paying my tuition, and getting my new apt. for the year I was down to about 850 in my bank account. No problem right? Thats more than enough of a roll to make consistent money playing poker. Yeah I'll just grind it out at 50 NL, but wait one of Party's Million dollar tournies is this weekend. One big score and I'm set. I can do it! 640 bucks later I'm out on the bubble and down to 210 bucks in my bank account. Wow I'm really beginning to get in deep now.

[/ QUOTE ]


Ahahahaha!!!! I read this after a (minor) downswing and a glass of mine. I laughed so freakin hard my girlfriend came down to ask me what was going on.
Hey OP, read it too. it's so funny!

[McMelchior]

[ QUOTE ]
Not everyone wants wife, kids, dog , house, mortgage, 9-5.

[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't be more on the money.

We have some options in life.

One of them is the mainstreem (middle-class) American way: to spend the early part of our twenties goal-oriented finishing education, picking a "life"-partner, establishing the foundation for a white-collar carreer.

Another is to spend the same amount of time experimenting, finding our who we are or who we'd like to be as humans, having a blast, hitting all-time lows, wrestling with life.

The latter strategy used to be much more common in the 60'es and 70'es, but now fear and failure of the "unlimited economic expansion" belief has put an end to that. Life in contemporary US is tough, but with a plus-average middle-class skill-set like yours you're probably never going to starve, to be without roof over your head (for more than brief periods at least) or lack means or ways to get necessary medical care should you get sick. Which is a situation very superior to the one the poorest 20% of the populations find themselves in.

I'm sure it's extremely painful losing your beautiful blonde, and it's probably not much of a comfort, but that doesn't make this less true:

You're 25 years old, and you have dozens of years ahead of you to meet other gorgeous women, maybe even some that might be a better match for the person you are (as right as the blonde was, she wasn't right enough to stick it out through this ordeal, if you see what I mean). Take this from someone who lost several incredibly beautiful, smart and "the only one for me" women after years of bumpy relationsships - just to marry at age 44 with someone who I appreciate no less and who has the guts and the interest to live with the 'real' me.

You might never become a successful chemical engineer, but there are other options in life. In spite of the picture commercial America is trying to sell us on TV it is very possible to live a satisfying life without a white-collar career (btw., some of my most professionally successful friends never finished college).

Obviously you can benefit from counseling or mentor-ship - can't we all? But as frustrated and upset you are right now, know that life have plenty more of both good and bad in stock for you, it's never a done deal, and you'll never know what's around the corner.

Best,

McMelchior (Johan)

[Shaun]

In all truth, a lot of people lose relationships and even marriages because they spend too much time on work and become disconnected from the ones they love. What you feel guilty about is that your work is now poker, and that you know it should have ended badly for you a handful of times.

Well, it didn't. Life is chaotic. If you really do have a more business-like approach to poker now, then your girl shouldn't hate it so much. It's convenient to blame one's problems in life on one thing, but in reality there are usually many factors at work. My unproffessional advice is don't regret what you can't change and be thankful for what you do have.

[Shaun]

After reading a little more I'm not sure I should have said what I did. If your bankroll constantly dips between 2 and 10k, then you have not learned your lessons yet and are still in bad shape. I also think you should try your hardest to get the girl back and look for some sort of job even if it's just part time. Good Luck.

[grandgnu]

Hey, found the OP's picture!

http://www.lasvegasvegas.com/pokerblog/images/062804-1.jpg

Mikey boy, I think there's only one solution for you (for me, the solution would be asian triplets, but here's yours):



http://www.streetsofatlanta.com/soa1/050.jpg http://www.stopaddiction.com/images/cocaine_razor.jpg

[Black winter day]

Damn,i hope this story is not true,cause it made me look hard into my poker "carier".
When i started out,i deposited 25$ and got to a 1000 in about a month and a half.
Then i hit a negative streak,started playing worse,bluffing and so on,went to high tables,being tilted,and lost it all,had 1$ left.
Then i started from macrolimits and built it to 3700$ in about half a year.
I've never done those things since - move up to quickly or play in large buy-in tourney i can't afford,but i do have a compulsive personality,so,i sincerily hope,i don't follow your path and go on self destructive mode again,cause i know i am capable of it.

Actually,i was always a little addicted to the rushes of gambling.
I've bet on sports,bought scratchcards and so on,but never in such a way,that brought me to being in need of a loan or something.
But eversince i started to play poker - i didn't even bet once.
And i am winning at poker,not much,but it's better then loosing money on bets.
So,i figuered - i'll better be addicted to the thing i can win at and i am at least not bad at.

The contrarian point of view of HoldenFoldem was great - it is actually true,that everyone is addicted to something,whether it's work,sex or sports.
At least we have an addiction to the thing where most of us have a chanse to win.
So it's not that different from being a workoholic,for example.
And they have a positive image in society,when in fact,they are also neglecting their families in favor of work.

I want to thank you for posting this.
Some guys like me,who are capable of doing the things you did may remember that post,when doing something crazy.
I know,that i always remember,how i felt,when i blew my last 200$ on 3/6 nl tables in 5 minutes,and i didn't even want to move up to 0.5/1 limits,till i got to 3500 or so.
Everytime i have this urge to make up for my losses,i am reminded of that feeling again,and just grind it out again,or even getting down to lower limits in order to feel safe about my br.

So,my advices would be

A)Don't hide your poker playing from your family.
If you don't feel,it's dangerous,why hide it?
If you do,than you need them to help you,so it's one more reason to tell them and your friends.
All my family and friends know,that i play poker.

B)Get help.Professional help.
Even if you are good at poker,bankroll management isn't an option.It's a mandatory skill,that you can't neglect,
If you are addicted,you can't properly maintain your br,so you'll always end up losing or breaking even.
With a help of a good psychologist,you might be able to control your urges and become a winning player.

C)Talk to to your girlfriend.
Explain her,what you told us.
Tell her,that you've realised,that you couldn't help it,that u were just addicted,but you do love her and want to be with her,so you are ready to fight your addiction and need her to help you to "fight for your love".
Man,if she doesn't understand that,that she wasn't all that good in the first place.
Unless,the love is just gone after 2 years.
Then,there is nothing you can do about it.

I am surprised,though,that your bad experiences haven't tought you anything.
How do you feel,when you buy into a tourney,you can't afford?
Do you know,it's wrong,but still do it?
Then why do you do it?
Are you trying to punish yourself subcontiencly for being addicted?
For being "bad"?
You need to think about those things or,again,talk to a professional.
It might help you straighten things out.

I hope,all the advices from all the people will help you.
I will be looking for an updates from you on the situation.

[Tommy Angelo]

"Yes I did tough it out and graduate the following year with the chemical eng. degree. Even though poker was clouding my judgements and life, I knew that I needed something to fall back on when I hit rock bottom."

A couple weeks ago Ray Zee said something about poker that hit home for me and it might be appropriate for you, if not now, then maybe eventually. He said instead of thinking of regular work as the thing to fall back on when poker goes bad, do it the other way around. He said the thing to do is to work your ass off at poker and get perfectly leakless and consistent once and for all, so that you can branch away from poker whenever you feel like it, into any business or income endeavor you please, and you can do it with safely and confidence, because you'd always have poker to fall back on.


Tommy

[revots33]

Your girl sounds awesome, yet you are choosing a card game over love. Why?

[derosnec]

Girls are a dime a dozen and even the "sweet" ones eventually turn sour, disinterested, and you find them one day in your bed with your best friend.

Who would you rather be:

http://gammatron.novarese.net/images/2004/05/29/raymer.jpg

or


http://www.cyclelist.com/rk/hhhformer/images/Pamela%20with%20her%20child%20and%20husband%20%20i n%20China.jpg

[BlackRain]

I do honestly wish OP all the best. But I can't help feel some anger when I read stories like this. My family went nuts over the holidays over the fact that I play poker for a living. They claimed I was in league with the devil, have a serious problem, and will only end up losing it all one day along with all the relationships in my life. I didn't say much back, rather choosing to just politely handle the tirades of my elders.

But it made me very mad afterwards because I am certain that I do not have a problem with this. I cannot empathize with the feelings of OP here at all in my poker career. I have never played outside my BR. I have never taken any loans to gamble with. I have a poker bankroll that is completely seperate from from bank accounts and credit cards. I never feel any urges to go for a big score. And I have never come close to being broke in my poker career.

Half of me is going to hate hitting submit to this post, because I do sympathize with OP and hope he gets the help he needs. I do not want to be seen as attacking him here. Nor am I writing this to be condescending towards OP. I think many of the issues he deals with are part of a genetic disposition much like alcoholism. Some people unfortunately are forced to deal with these personality traits.

It just angers me that these kind of stories, which I believe come from a small minority of players, provide the fuel for a lot of the hatred and slander towards the poker industry and its players.

I wish we could educate the general public more, and better yet prevent these kinds of stories from happening in the first place.

[limon]

this is correct. i've said it on here a dozen times, wrote it in an esssay, but people dont listen. when you think poker....think bobby baldwin.

[SFizzle]

We have a very similar story, except I made 10k, kept it, kept the girl, graduated on time, and went to a top 10 law school. I was very close to taking up poker very seriously, but once my beautiful blonde started to get worried I dumped the game and kept the chick. Aces can't keep you warm on a cold night.