My goal is to make money

[Klak]

I like the opening on this month's magazine but one line i really disagree with: "my goal is not to cause my opponents to make mistakes." it seems that the only way to make money is by causing your opponents to make mistakes, or capitalizing on mistakes they already made. i realize the guy who posted this was just trying to make a point, but i think causing opponents to make mistakes should be on your mind at all times.

[JaredL]

There are some lines that potentially cause your opponent to make a huge mistake on the turn (say) but overall aren't as good at making money overall on the hand. For example, on the turn in deep stack no limit you could push which would cause a huge mistake by your drawing slim opponent. While that would cause him to make a mistake should he call, you will probably make more money in the long run by betting less because he is more likely to call.

In limit you could cause your opponents to make a bigger mistake on later streets by not raising preflop with aces. You are likely to have an edge on the flop and turn so keeping the pot smaller makes your opponents' calls more of a mistake. However, you don't make enough money on these streets to make up for the lost equity from preflop raising.

That's what I think it means, not sure about Pzohn who originally wrote it.

Jared

[Klak]

thats a good point. it's not about making them make as many mistakes as possible. its about causing them to make mistakes that cause you to make the most money.

[mosquito]

Also note the difference between causing opps to make mistakes and giving them the opportunity to make mistakes.

[KreellKeiser]

I think you may be missing the point. He's saying that the goal is to make money. Period. All those other things he lists are not goals. They are means to an end (money). But the single goal is to make money. Are they important things? Sure, some of them are. But do not confuse the means with the end. THE GOAL IS TO MAKE MONEY.

Of course this does not necessarily apply to everyone. While I agree that my goal is to make money, someone else's goal may be to finish in the top 25 in the Stars TLB for the year. For that person, the competition is why they play poker, so money is secondary to being the best.

If you confuse your goal though, you might make mistakes and hinder your progress towards that goal. So, like I said, my goal is to make money. What's yours?

[KreellKeiser]

On a side note to my response above, I really liked this opening to the magazine. Helps keep me focused even while I've gotten off to a rotten start this year.

[pzhon]

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I like the opening on this month's magazine

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Thanks.

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but one line i really disagree with: "my goal is not to cause my opponents to make mistakes." it seems that the only way to make money is by causing your opponents to make mistakes, or capitalizing on mistakes they already made.

[/ QUOTE ]
Others have made valid points related to this, but let me clarify what I meant.

It is not accurate to say that profit comes from your opponents' errors. Profit comes from the net errors. Getting your opponents to make mistakes may not lead to profit when you make more mistakes yourself.

Let's suppose I raise UTG in a full NL ring game with a 100 BB stack. If it's folded to the BB, who pushes, I'll usually fold. Maybe I'll fold 80% of the time. If the BB does this with garbage, I'm making a big mistake by folding; I might be better off by 50 BB by calling. Does that make it a good or profitable strategy for the BB? No, the BB's mistake in pushing is almost as large as my mistake when I fold, say, QQ. My net error is small. However, the 1/5 of the time that I have AA, I'm not folding, and the BB has made a huge mistake. The average net error favors me, so this is not a profitable strategy, even though it provokes a huge error from me 80% of the time.

Overemphasizing the errors you can provoke in your opponents (at the expense of minimizing your own errors) is a common type of misanalysis in the strategy forums.

[bsheck]

While we're on the subject, I was a little confused about "not to find out "where I'm at" during the hand". Information betting no good?

[JaredL]

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While we're on the subject, I was a little confused about "not to find out "where I'm at" during the hand". Information betting no good?

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As usual it depends. I would highly reccomend you read this (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=micro&Number=523282&S earchpage=1&Main=523282&Words=%26quot%3Bfor+inform ation%26quot%3B+Ed+Miller&topic=&Search=true#Post5 23282) from the (not yet) noted poker authority.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While we're on the subject, I was a little confused about "not to find out "where I'm at" during the hand". Information betting no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

As usual it depends. I would highly reccomend you read this (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=micro&Number=523282&S earchpage=1&Main=523282&Words=%26quot%3Bfor+inform ation%26quot%3B+Ed+Miller&topic=&Search=true#Post5 23282) from the (not yet) noted poker authority.

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Good post. I was thinking of another, but I can't find it at the moment.

Sometimes betting or raising gives you more information, but that alone is not sufficient justification. The information may not be worth the price you pay for it.

[bsheck]

Yep, that was a good post. Thanks for linking me to it.

[jedi]

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I really liked this opening to the magazine. Helps keep me focused even while I've gotten off to a rotten start this year.

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[Ineedaride2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
While we're on the subject, I was a little confused about "not to find out "where I'm at" during the hand". Information betting no good?

[/ QUOTE ]

As usual it depends. I would highly reccomend you read this (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Board=micro&Number=523282&S earchpage=1&Main=523282&Words=%26quot%3Bfor+inform ation%26quot%3B+Ed+Miller&topic=&Search=true#Post5 23282) from the (not yet) noted poker authority.

[/ QUOTE ]
Good post. I was thinking of another, but I can't find it at the moment.

Sometimes betting or raising gives you more information, but that alone is not sufficient justification. The information may not be worth the price you pay for it.

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Straight out of TOP. It straightened me out, because I was the king of betting "to see where I'm at."