8/b-Anyone consider this weak tight?

[getfunky]

In honor of our recent discussions on 8's I thought I'd post this short hand. The villian showed a tendency to limp with strong lows - all aces were dead and yet I had a backdoor live wheel draw.

I thought this hands sucks heads up, and the pot was tiny. Anyone call here?

7 Card Stud High-Low ($3/$6), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $1 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.htm))

3rd Street - (1.33 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx T/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 3: xx xx A/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds
Hero: A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif___brings-in
Seat 6: xx xx 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx A/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Seat 8: xx xx K/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds

4th Street - (2.00 SB)

Hero: A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 7: xx xx A/images/graemlins/club.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___bets

Total pot: (2.00 SB)

[mscags]

I fold this every time

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this every time

[/ QUOTE ]

With 4 to a low? I think I'd at least see fifth for a small bet. With the pot this small it probably doesn't matter a whole lot either way.

[mscags]

I fold since the guy caught open aces and your chance for high is very small.

[Alchemist]

Didn't we just agree in another thread that a big pair always gets sucked out by a low that doesn't fold? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[mscags]

I agree completely and I think this is my problem. I feel like im ALWAYS folding. I fold in that situation.

Take this example.

Hero 2648Q
Opponent XXAJK

opponent bets into me, and I fold here. i have no high possibilities and am chasing half of the pot. DO you fold here Alchemist?

Another one.

Hero KKQ59
Opponent XX356

I usually check and fold in this spot as well. Yes/No? I feel like I am always folding in spots where my opponents certainly aren't. Short term variance? I hope so.

[getfunky]

since weak players will always call here, they will seem to suck out more than others, by catching perfect twice. truth be told, i have a one way hand that can get me into deep trouble - now i catch good to make an 8-low on 5th street and so does the villian who probably has a good low draw to scoop me. if i had raised with 3 to a wheel and then caught the 8 i would lean toward calling and then probably folding if I didn't catch a very good card on 5th st. The tiny pot is the key as i must fold a brick on 5th st., so why call here?

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree completely and I think this is my problem. I feel like im ALWAYS folding. I fold in that situation.

Take this example.

Hero 2648Q
Opponent XXAJK

opponent bets into me, and I fold here. i have no high possibilities and am chasing half of the pot. DO you fold here Alchemist?


[/ QUOTE ]
I might accidentally click Call against my better judgement. Mitigating factors: lots of live babies and likely being on tilt for finally having a 4-low in 50 hands. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Actually I probably would give it up here, given a small pot. I think I rationalize a call by thinking: if I hit a low, I'm safe and can freeroll him for a straight.
[ QUOTE ]

Another one.

Hero KKQ59
Opponent XX356

I usually check and fold in this spot as well. Yes/No? I feel like I am always folding in spots where my opponents certainly aren't. Short term variance? I hope so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup that's getting fired into the muck at warp speed.
I feel like I'm folding all the time, too and that I'm perpetually the tightest one at the table. My %4th is usually 20-25% even when it feels a lot lower.

Good starting hands are identified for a reason, so watching crap hands win over and over must be short term varience, right? For the sake of my sanity I hope so, but it can sure be so sickening/absurd to watch. I played a low buy-in MTT today and even late into the match there were often 5 limping in. The hands people were showing down were ridiculous. Meanwhile the antes are eating away at me while I wait for a good starting hand. I'm really short so I take a stand with 929 and get called by 878. Villain wins with Tens up (I river Nines up).

[mscags]

I'm gonna play the PS 200+15 in a little bit lol. Wish me luck /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Alchemist]

Awesome, I'll come sweat you.

[mscags]

Sweet

EDIT: mikescags716 on AIM if you ever want to chat

[getfunky]

as a solid player i too feel a bit self conscious, as I generally think I'm playing with stud hi players, and players who don't have a clue. nevertheless, I keep on folding if I think this is the right thing to do

with your kings vs 356, i generally fold but will call if the fours are somewhat dead and then reevaluate on 6th st. I'll also call if villian plays way too many hands.

alchemist: short on money is no excuse to play split nines. walk away and come back again later when you have more chips and are feeling better. i do stupid things like this, but I can't condone middle pairs, nevertheless. always keep the big picture in mind, and focus on making good decisions - that goes for scags, alchemist and me!

[Alchemist]

[ QUOTE ]
alchemist: short on money is no excuse to play split nines. walk away and come back again later when you have more chips and are feeling better.

[/ QUOTE ]

That hand was making a stand in a tourney, I was short stacked /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ColdCaller]

You have to fold this hand - you have a razz hand without a shot at making a high hand, and you're drawing to half starting with fourth street.

Let's give him a seven-low draw with his pair (the most likely hand):

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1466345
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 ah 8d 3s 5c - ac ad 2c 7d / as th qd ts 6d kc
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
3s 5c 8d Ah 57367 75014 424891 95 296091 67216 556 0.388
Ac 2c Ad 7d 168984 424891 75014 95 113372 52469 556 0.612

You're in pretty bad shape, as you can tell. But what if we give him garbage?

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=1466346
pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 ah 8d 3s 5c - ac ad ks 9h / as th qd ts 6d kc
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
3s 5c 8d Ah 87720 87720 412280 0 395378 0 0 0.510
Ks Ac Ad 9h 78114 412280 87720 0 0 0 0 0.490

As you can see, you're about even money here, but only if your opponent is playing garbage and calling with a bare ace. This seems pretty unlikely, if you ask me - you have to give him credit for at least an eight-low draw since he just called, rather than completed.

These types of plays are read-dependent on whether or not to go past fourth street with a bad low. Sometimes you might raise this guy with a 35 showing even if he has a pair of aces, because he might give you a free card on the expensive street, fearing a wheel wrap or rolled up cards.

[getfunky]

oh, tourneys are different, middle pairs gain a lot of value