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BobboFitos

12-28-2005, 04:12 AM

Live pokar turningstone "tonight". I call an all in on turn. At showdown, f*cking nits say I have to show my hand. No, I say, I called him, I dont need to show. (I dont like showing my hand in general) They call the floor over to me. I explain I thought the rule was to prevent collusion; you cant just ask to see every hand. They overturn this, get my hand, and voila, it's shown.

Is this in fact the rule? I'd like to say my tilt factor is going closer to nil, but this (not the actual hand, table, or opponents!!!) definately bothered me greatly. Thanks...

Bishop22

12-28-2005, 04:23 AM

If your a good player you probably get a lot of practice folding. My favorite way is getting the cards between the index and middle fingers and flicking. As the river is being turned over get ready once you know you are beat fire at the muck. I am about 95% hitting the muck and about 80% getting the cards jammed between the other cards. Everyone just assumes you tossed the cards in anger and if they want to see..well too late. The answer to the question though, is they should only be opening your cards if someone asks, who can ask varies by casino.

-Bishop

BobboFitos

12-28-2005, 04:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If your a good player you probably get a lot of practice folding.

[/ QUOTE ]

surprisingly, I consider myself a very good player but I also try to avoid folding at every opportunity. /images/graemlins/smile.gif (If it makes any difference, this was no limit, so I'm not violating HFAP or anything /images/graemlins/blush.gif)

[ QUOTE ]
. As the river is being turned over get ready once you know you are beat fire at the muck. I am about 95% hitting the muck and about 80% getting the cards jammed between the other cards. Everyone just assumes you tossed the cards in anger and if they want to see..well too late.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt know I was beat until theriver. I made a bad call (the hand is inconsequential) but obviously did not want to muck what could be the winner!

[ QUOTE ]
he answer to the question though, is they should only be opening your cards if someone asks, who can ask varies by casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, two people asked. They just wanted to see what I raised with prelfop/etc. Just very much bothers me, because not only was there alot of hooplah; but they werent in the hand; and this had not happened before at the table!!!

[ QUOTE ]
-Bishop

[/ QUOTE ]

thanks bishop

Photoc

12-28-2005, 05:48 AM

Almost 4k posts and you dont know this rule? You must be from OOT, lol. Any player dealt into the hand, may request to see a called hand. End of story. Why do you think that called hands show up in the hand histories for most online sites?

pa3lsvt

12-28-2005, 09:51 AM

If all possible action is completed (i.e. all but one of the players in the hand are all in) and cards remain to be dealt to the board, all players must turn their hand over. I know it's in Roberts somewhere but that's a pretty basic rule of live poker.

This situation has nothing to do with other players requesting to see your cards - even without their requests you are required to show. Turn it up and don't be a nit.

lapoker17

12-28-2005, 10:15 AM

just learn how to turbo muck from any seat. it solves everything. and yes, the idiots who ask to see your hand should be shot. you can take solace in the fact that the people who ask to see the losing hand nearly always suck at poker. you will bust them soon enough.

Kurn, son of Mogh

12-28-2005, 10:21 AM

all possible action is completed (i.e. all but one of the players in the hand are all in) and cards remain to be dealt to the board, all players must turn their hand over.

In most card rooms, that's only true in tournaments. In cash games, you don't have to show your hand before the action is complete and you can muck the loser.

ireraiseu

12-28-2005, 10:27 AM

This is a tournament rule and shouldn't be applied to live games. And, yes, any player dealt in to the hand can ask to see a called hand, but this is not to be abused by the players and it is at the discretion of the floor to manage this situation. If one player is constantly asking to see a called hand the floor should address this problem player.

I agree with Bishop22, as I too always aim for the muck.

12-28-2005, 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If all possible action is completed (i.e. all but one of the players in the hand are all in) and cards remain to be dealt to the board, all players must turn their hand over. I know it's in Roberts somewhere but that's a pretty basic rule of live poker.

This situation has nothing to do with other players requesting to see your cards - even without their requests you are required to show. Turn it up and don't be a nit.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is only a rule in touranments (well I know of a room that has "WPT tables" where they use tournament rules for live play)

BobboFitos

12-28-2005, 11:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Almost 4k posts and you dont know this rule? You must be from OOT, lol. Any player dealt into the hand, may request to see a called hand. End of story. Why do you think that called hands show up in the hand histories for most online sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

because online is rigged?

mrkilla

12-28-2005, 12:14 PM

You are correct the rule in a cash game is if you go all in you don't have to show the hand, niether one of you really does , unless you like Money and want to win.

But the IWTSTH rule the floor understands and will still 95% of the time make you flip your hand

you being the caller can fling your cards in the muck after he shows..he has to show first though at showdown

AngusThermopyle

12-28-2005, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
..he has to show first though at showdown

[/ QUOTE ]

No.
OP failed to mention the relative positions of the two players.
And yes, it does matter. The betting was complete on the Turn, not the River.
So earlier position shows first.

jba

12-28-2005, 12:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
just learn how to turbo muck from any seat. it solves everything. and yes, the idiots who ask to see your hand should be shot. you can take solace in the fact that the people who ask to see the losing hand nearly always suck at poker. you will bust them soon enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

a lot of times you'll get a dealer who is really good and he will know exactly what you're doing and angle the much to sort of "catch" your cards. i love those guys.

mrkilla

12-28-2005, 01:15 PM

I think that might be room dependant, the places I been playing, they usually make the agressor show first (I go call in from MP you call from EP I have to show first)

or are we saying the same thing

Freerollin`

12-28-2005, 01:19 PM

TheWorstPlayer

12-28-2005, 02:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Almost 4k posts and you dont know this rule? You must be from OOT, lol. Any player dealt into the hand, may request to see a called hand. End of story. Why do you think that called hands show up in the hand histories for most online sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

BobboFitos is a MHNL poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

Freerollin`

12-28-2005, 03:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Almost 4k posts and you dont know this rule? You must be from OOT, lol. Any player dealt into the hand, may request to see a called hand. End of story. Why do you think that called hands show up in the hand histories for most online sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

BobboFitos is a MHNL poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

TWP is a Sarcastic Bastard.

TheWorstPlayer

12-28-2005, 05:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Almost 4k posts and you dont know this rule? You must be from OOT, lol. Any player dealt into the hand, may request to see a called hand. End of story. Why do you think that called hands show up in the hand histories for most online sites?

[/ QUOTE ]

BobboFitos is a MHNL poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

TWP is a well respected Sarcastic Bastard.

[/ QUOTE ]

VORP

12-28-2005, 07:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think that might be room dependant, the places I been playing, they usually make the agressor show first (I go call in from MP you call from EP I have to show first)

or are we saying the same thing

[/ QUOTE ]

In every room I know of, when action is complete before the river, earliest position is the first to show. So if MP bets allin on the turn and EP calls, EP is the first to show.

bav

12-28-2005, 08:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]

In every room I know of, when action is complete before the river, earliest position is the first to show. So if MP bets allin on the turn and EP calls, EP is the first to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

At LV Bally's a week ago a dealer specifically demanded the cards be shown in the order of betting from a prior round. Didn't matter to me, but that's odd so I quized her. She claimed that's their policy...if the river is checked around, the previous aggressor will show first. I didn't go verify this with the floor, but the dealer was quite certain she was right about this.

12-28-2005, 08:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that might be room dependant, the places I been playing, they usually make the agressor show first (I go call in from MP you call from EP I have to show first)

or are we saying the same thing

[/ QUOTE ]

In every room I know of, when action is complete before the river, earliest position is the first to show. So if MP bets allin on the turn and EP calls, EP is the first to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience I would say75% of rooms start left of the button (I know Rick loves it when people talk about left of the button). When it is checked around on the river I am in favor of starting from lef tof the button, but when there is no river action becasue it was allin on a previous round I am in favor of the bettor showing first.

mikech

12-28-2005, 09:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that might be room dependant, the places I been playing, they usually make the agressor show first (I go call in from MP you call from EP I have to show first)

or are we saying the same thing

[/ QUOTE ]

In every room I know of, because i have never been to the borgata or any other casino in atlantic city where the last aggressor must show first, when action is complete before the river, earliest position is the first to show. So if MP bets allin on the turn and EP calls, EP is the first to show.

[/ QUOTE ]

AKQJ10

12-28-2005, 09:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to say my tilt factor is going closer to nil, but this (not the actual hand, table, or opponents!!!) definately bothered me greatly.

[/ QUOTE ]
In one sense you're technically in the right -- all-in hands don't have to be shown in ring games. But failing to laugh off abuses of I WTSTH (http://poker.wikicities.com/wiki/I_want_to_see_that_hand) is a huge leak in your game, because you will never ever ever play in a cardroom where you will avoid people who think they're entitled to see. If you tilt off all your chips to them, then their abuse of the rule is highly +EV for them.

Bremen

12-28-2005, 10:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In every room I know of, because i have never been to the borgata or any other casino in atlantic city where the last aggressor must show first, when action is complete before the river, earliest position is the first to show. So if MP bets allin on the turn and EP calls, EP is the first to show.

[/ QUOTE ]
At Taj showdown starts to the left of the button regardless of action. Of course I've only ever seen one player insist on this procedure. Of course stud games follow last aggressor.

MightyMouse2

01-05-2006, 05:40 AM