Help me build my bankroll with bonus

[Samara]

Hi! Can someone help me build a BR by bonuswhoring?

The following paragraph is just to illustrate my state of mind and what I want to be carefull not to do again(very LC, but keep reading please, its just this pharagraph I promise):
Recently I got a $20 no deposit from PP. Turned into $150 at NL25 & PL25. Then I started playing $6 SnGs (I know now, 20% rake is a bad idea), lost $50. Withdrew the rest. Then I thought, ok, I'm going to do right this time, lets start in micro-limit. Played at PS, this time I learned Omaha. Then the Topbucks50 in PP appeared and I thought I could increase my bankroll again. Well, Party hates me now!!! Played 3 tables of PLO8-25 to clear the bonus, and I kept losing from 1-outers, 2-outers, my nut lows got conterfeited everytime on the river I was all in on the turn with a flush draw and made nut low, just to lose my beautiful A23x low to some guy that had 46xx etc. I won net $3 w/ bonus.

So now I am money scared and with $103 in neteller. I want to increase this in a safe manner as I learn. I think now I am just a little above fish so I want to be honest with myself. But I think my main problem is that since my BR is so small, when I lose like $10 to a 1-outer on the river it hurts me bad. Please help me grow in Poker. I am not in a hurry, I can play as low as suggested, I don't need to multi-table if I don't have to etc. Also, I am concerned of getting the bonus now and giving up RB in the future, so please leave that into account. Thank you in advance.

[Andrew Karpinski]

You want to clear bonuses that can be cleared at $.5/$1 limit. There's not too many but there are a few. Check out the www.bonuswhores.com (http://www.bonuswhores.com) bonus grid to see your clear rates at low limits and pick one of those.

[1huskerfan]

Clearance rates are going to be especially slow with that BR. I started off by playing .10/.25 on UB and FTP. Clearance rates are probably even slower there, but the sites are pretty soft and you can combine the bonus with RB. Then you can hit up the juicier bonuses when you have an adequate BR.

[raphet99]

If you are in no hurry, just play the micros at PS until you build up to a about $300...that should be enough to start taking advantage of other sites bonii and still have some bankroll cushion. Then you are also working on your game, which will be more than helpful once you start moving up in levels. PS is pretty easy to beat up through .5/$1 (or more, I suppose, but I'm not there yet), but other sites, for example Prima sites, will be tighter/tougher and you don't want to just play breakeven or worse, lose, even though you will make up some of it with your bonus. It's not as fun and it takes an emotional toll.

BTW, my experience was that I built up $25 to $300 in about 2-3 months between .05/.10 and .25/.50.

Good Luck...

[smoore]

learn 6max limit holdem, you won't find an abundance of omerhaw at small sites. build your bankroll at 'stars.

I personally suggest 100% match bonuses at online casinos for $25 or $50 when people have <$300. If you accept the risk of ruin you stand to make quite a bit of money.

The site where I learned is onlineblackjackguide.com he does have affiliate links on his site but he only gets paid if you lose. Some of the casinos won't allow you to download the software if you use his affiliate link (heh.heh.heh.) but if you just go to the site directly they will.

edit: take advantage of casinomeister.com it's basically a watchdog group for players with online casinos

[daedalus]

Read the following thread (Building a bankroll for a newbie). Especially the part about 'moving up in limit's'. Be patient at low levels or you are going to bust out with the small bankroll. Be careful with bonuses as they may be at a sit and level that you can bust out on. I'd pick a soft limit room (party or pacific) with micro-limits and work up. Won't take long if your good. If your having trouble read WLLH and/or SSHE and you'll get good. This does assume you are playing limit however.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...&PHPSESSID= (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=micro&Number=3740788&fpar t=1&PHPSESSID=)

[OrianasDaad]

Leave off on bonus-hunting until you build your bankroll up the old fashioned way. Namely, by playing a winning game. There's not much in the way of bonuses with such a small roll, and I'd recommend at least $300 so you can play .5/1.

That's how I did it, by the way. I started with free $10 at a Prima site and built that up to over $600 in the course of three months (I did make a $50 deposit, so I "move up" to .25/.50, and withdraw). I used some of the winnings during that period to pick up a few books, and improve my overall game (SSHE and HPFAP are two of the notable purchases I made here). Overall, I probably turned my initial $60 into about $900 during those months (in winnings, mind you), and took $600 of it forward to hunt for bonuses.

As far as RB is concerned, except for one site, I have largely ignored it. I make regular withdrawals from my bankroll to cover personal expenses, so I haven't been able to move up to a limit where it matters. When I get to a point where RB is more valuable than bonuses, I guess I'll be missing out at alot of places, but I'll know that I'm a winning player without RB, and that is something that is against the norm, even here at 2+2, where a vast swath of players would be breakeven or worse without it.

LO8/b is a good game for a small bankroll, but that's for a good->expert player. If you are still learning the game, then you'll want a bigger bankroll. I'd stick to LHE, since there will always be availability, and because of the plethora of literature on the subject. I've got more books on LHE than there are good books written on the subject of O8/b.

One last note. Losing a large pot to a 1-outer is a painful experience at first, but with understanding and study you'll come to appreciate and even welcome the situations under which getting sucked out on occurs, since they are your most profitable - in the long run.

[AaronL]

Agree with the above...quit playing 8 or better since you're going to probably be playing at a ton of small places... I would also do the starluck and planetluck casino bonus... deposit $100 on each and flat bet $1 on both using a chart... very low risk of ruin and you should have close to $300... from there there hit up the free money places (like the primas) and play the lowest limits to meet the terms... from there hit up bodog.com (through cardplayer for a free upfront $100 match) and pacific poker (not sure what the conditions are there... just know the bonus is up front...) good luck...

[Kriber13]

[ QUOTE ]
Leave off on bonus-hunting until you build your bankroll up the old fashioned way. Namely, by playing a winning game. There's not much in the way of bonuses with such a small roll, and I'd recommend at least $300 so you can play .5/1.


One last note. Losing a large pot to a 1-outer is a painful experience at first, but with understanding and study you'll come to appreciate and even welcome the situations under which getting sucked out on occurs, since they are your most profitable - in the long run.

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly disagre with the lay of whoring part, when I started out a year and 3 month ago I was a slightly losing or break even player at superlow limits and bonuses made me money especially as I was moving up and struggling. I made about 14k my first year playing poker and I probably would have busted my roll and quit without bonuses.

As for the sucking out part I know that is the text book example on how to act, but if you really embrace it, understand it and play accordingly you should be a world class player unless of course you're unable to grasp the simplest strategy concepts. The tilt issues is probably the number on leak in most players, and I'm not talking about full blown tilt but the subtle forms. I reccomend reading Feney's book it really puts it in perspective.

Whore away and constntly work on your game and you should be ok, Kristoffer

[OrianasDaad]

Bankroll management is as important, if not more important, than poker strategy. If you were in danger of losing your roll without bonuses, then it reflects a flaw in your preperation for the game. No worries, nobody does it perfect from the beginning. I busted out of my first $50 on Party, before I'd heard of 2+2, playing .5/1. Lost the last bit of my "playroll" with pocket aces, go figure. I returned humbled, but armed.

To the OP: By all means, if you wish to play a breakeven game and make money via bonus whoring, then go ahead. Like I said in a recent post, the bonus bonanza will dry up eventually, and slightly losing or breakeven bonus whores will be left out to dry. What will they do when the bonuses are all 20x or worse? I don't care, since I can beat the game either way.

Building a bankroll via bonus-hunting with $100 is possible, and is outlined in stickied posts in various forums. At least one of these should be intuitive for a thinking reader.

If you do build your bankroll up solely through bonuses, and if you find yourself suddenly wondering why you can't beat the 5/10 internet LHE games, then think back to this post. There's something to be learned at every limit, something to be learned from every player who does something you don't expect. In order to become a serious poker player, you have to become a student of the game, and building quick bankrolls via bonuses is detrimental to that.

All that being said, I realize that I've been donking around in the micros for far too long myself. Shame on me. Time to move up.

[Kriber13]

[ QUOTE ]
Bankroll management is as important, if not more important, than poker strategy. If you were in danger of losing your roll without bonuses, then it reflects a flaw in your preperation for the game. No worries, nobody does it perfect from the beginning. I busted out of my first $50 on Party, before I'd heard of 2+2, playing .5/1. Lost the last bit of my "playroll" with pocket aces, go figure. I returned humbled, but armed.

To the OP: By all means, if you wish to play a breakeven game and make money via bonus whoring, then go ahead. Like I said in a recent post, the bonus bonanza will dry up eventually, and slightly losing or breakeven bonus whores will be left out to dry. What will they do when the bonuses are all 20x or worse? I don't care, since I can beat the game either way.

Building a bankroll via bonus-hunting with $100 is possible, and is outlined in stickied posts in various forums. At least one of these should be intuitive for a thinking reader.

If you do build your bankroll up solely through bonuses, and if you find yourself suddenly wondering why you can't beat the 5/10 internet LHE games, then think back to this post. There's something to be learned at every limit, something to be learned from every player who does something you don't expect. In order to become a serious poker player, you have to become a student of the game, and building quick bankrolls via bonuses is detrimental to that.

All that being said, I realize that I've been donking around in the micros for far too long myself. Shame on me. Time to move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're missing the point that bonuswhoting is a part of playing internet poker compare it to casino whoring where you play -EV games and rely on bonuses that could be compared to the starting out poker player also I think you might learn more playing break even at a slightly higher limit where most people actually somewhat decently.

Of course you should be a student of the game IF YOU WANT TO WIN and not play just for fun which is a good enough reason for me. Being a student of the game also means that you need to start moving up as your game develops because you want to make your money and if moving up a limit gives you a smaller edge but togheter with a fat bonus you actually earn more you should go for it in my opinion it develops your game.

I've been working alot on my game and through agressive whoring I've got a 20K roll playing mostly 5/10 LHE and yes I'm a winning player all this in a little over a year and about 30 books later.

When I wrote some texts for an affiliate side I'd try to explain the concept of whoring and rakeback for that matter with " You need to understand that every hand you play on a pokersite is worth something" and it is. The question is are you giving it away for free and if not how much are you charging.

Keep moving, Kristoffer

[Samara]

Thanks guys there are great ideas in this thread. I don't have much time now but I will comment on them later.

[OrianasDaad]

This is an interesting topic, and you've obviously done some thinking on the subject. PM me with a link to those articles, if you don't mind. I'm interested in reading them.

[Samara]

Kristoffer, I would like to read those articles too, if you could PM me with the links if they are ready.

Orianas, I don't want to play break-even poker just to earn the bonuses. I want to play limits that my BR allows and that I can maintain a winrate. However, I don't see much diferrence from .02/04 through .25/.50 in Stars and 10NL and 25NL. It is just that in Party, they don't have lower limits and I'm not confortable playing .50/1, (I dont have 300BB), but I try to buy in for $5 using short stack strategy. I was running for 6PTBB/100 in 25NL at party by always buying for $5. Then when I switched games I lost a lot. So of course I am re-evaluating my strategy, but one part that I feel that was causing me to tilt was that I was BIG money scared. So I plan to study more and stick to one game, just haven't decided yet which. If ~5k hands account for something(I know its small as hell but its my experience so far) I am a winner at party 25NL and loser on everything else. Also a winner up to .25/.50 at L08 at Stars.

[Daniel Magix]

I see so many people say how difficult it is to clear bonuses at micro-levels. It does take grinding, but it can be done. I was worried that I wouldn't clear the 30% reload bonus at PR within the given 60 day time limit. I had only put $100 in and I was only going to be playing .25/50. I ended up two-tabling and playing the occasional SnG with Ring Game profits. 2.5 weeks later, my bonus was clear, and my BR had grown to $280 in that time. Granted, I was running very hot to start off, and the SnG's helped speed up the bonuses. But the experience of grinding it out at near nano-limits, is very valuable and teaches patience very well.

[sg23]

definitely stick to one game and get good at that, perhaps use other games as a change of pace (O8 is my new "hobby" for when i don't feel like playing LHE), but if your goal is to move up limits/make more money, you want to focus and improve.

i have to disagree with those who recommend against bonus chasing starting out. i played micro limits (.25/.50 and .50/1) at pokerroom for a couple of months without bonus before i realized i could play on other sites on that network and make a little extra cash. i treat bonus money as just that - a bonus. it gives me an added incentive to play, and it did help build my bankroll starting out, but ultimately i wanted (and want) to beat the crap out of people with my game, that is why i play, that is why i keep trying to play better poker with each new session.

i've also found that playing on different sites/networks has only helped my game because i've had to adjust to the different playing styles that you will see on party, prima, cryptos, ongame, absolute, etc. i can understand why people might want to stick to one site/network, and i don't want to suggest that you should start jumping around immediately, but i really think the exposure to different sites is beneficial.

rakeback is something you should keep in mind whenever signing up for a new site. as with bonuses, rakeback shouldn't be the only reason someone plays on a site, or plays poker. it's merely a rebate on some of the rake you are paying anyway, money that would otherwise be totally lost to the site. as you move up in limits, play more, and/or play shorthanded, rakeback sums increase and you'd be surprised how much you'll see from it at the end of the month. i've moved up cautiously, and now play 1/2 6max and 2/4 FR LHE depending on the site. in the past two months i've received hundreds of dollars in RB from various sites. (!)

i don't know how many sites you've created accounts at, but some sites will not allow you to create new accounts/get rakeback if you already have an account, something to think about if you decide to try a new site/network. i simply don't see a downside to signing up for a site using a reputable rakeback affiliate, even if you only play at the site for a signup bonus. also, some sites do not deduct bonuses from your rakeback totals, which is nice. (btw i am not an affiliate myself, just a happy customer).

interesting thread, good luck /images/graemlins/smile.gif
-joanna