Mandatory front page WSEX thread!!!

[RainDog]

Since there is no front page WSEX thread, I figure it's due time to make my own pointless thread.

But truly...it's not pointless. WSEX deserves every bit of attention it gets. Eventually it needs to be drilled in to everyone's head that there is simply NOT any legitimate reason to play any where else.

Any problems people have been having, the site has been efficiently working out. Any belief that there is less money to be made at WSEX than elsewhere is simply wrong (Other than a multi-table limit of 3, but there is no reason you can't play two sites).

!!!!!

[Photoc]

<snore> in other news, the sky is blue.

[Davey]

How long do tourneys take to fill up? ($33 sng)

[Yobz]

How good are the games and how many people play concurrently?

[TylerD]

[ QUOTE ]
How long do tourneys take to fill up? ($33 sng)

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't. Ever.

[Newt_Buggs]

[ QUOTE ]
there is simply NOT any legitimate reason to play any where else.

[/ QUOTE ]
wrong

[JOEL_]

People here on 2+2 know about WPEX.No need for repeated messages.Everyone has different needs and for sure WPEX cannot meet them right now for everyone.

With time people will come when the site meets the needs with those players that presently have not signed up.

Other forums are just now learning about it all and the growth will come,slowly for now but eventually there will be enough play there to satisfy the most needy of requirements.

[William]

Post again when there are more than a 100 active players at peak time.

[Alobar]

no posts on the front page?

ahhhh, I love n00bs. Still have the default thread views set at 10. Prolly uses threaded mode too.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
no posts on the front page?

ahhhh, I love n00bs. Still have the default thread views set at 10. Prolly uses threaded mode too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not a noob but still use threaded mode.

It's nice to see more senseless WPEX spam, its just what the zoo needed.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm not a noob but still use threaded mode.


[/ QUOTE ]


If you are using threaded mode, you are a noob /images/graemlins/smile.gif If you've actually tried out flad mode and like threaded better, well then you are just one goofy mofo!

[Q_and_A]

Does WPEX allow you to change your screenname after you open an account?

[Barrin6]

Tell WPEX to support firepay.

[jiggaman0204]

You'd have to be a Communist to actually like threaded mode better. It's horrible and I don't know why it is the dafault.

[DMBFan23]

I hear the games really suck

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Accumulated rake this week: $2,146.62 /images/graemlins/cool.gif.

[almostbusto]

[ QUOTE ]
Accumulated rake this week: $2,146.62 /images/graemlins/cool.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]hardcore. thats almost exactly how much rake i have accumulated total. i am on a nice heater though, up 8k in the last 2 weeks.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Accumulated rake this week: $2,146.62 /images/graemlins/cool.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]hardcore. thats almost exactly how much rake i have accumulated total. i am on a nice heater though, up 8k in the last 2 weeks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I ended up around $800 ex. rakeback, so was not such a good week excluded rakeback, but with it is nice.

[thetman]

It's sad the number of people that flame somebody for posts like these. If you don't like it, don't read it!

[MicroBob]

Spamming the same topic again and again is not helpful.

Some players here have decided to play there.
Others have not.

While the level of play of all 2+2'ers is not exactly mind-blowingly brilliant all the time I still don't really want ALL 2+2'ers to populate the tables there.

Also, there are reasons to play on other sites too.

I think WSEX rocks.
I am supporting them as well with my sports-bets (otherwise known as 'hunches') because I believe in what they are doing.

But there actually ARE reasons to play elsewhere...and it's not entirely all 'fish-related' either.

[Full Metal]

[ QUOTE ]
Tell WPEX to support firepay.

[/ QUOTE ]

[bgtas]

[ QUOTE ]
How long do tourneys take to fill up? ($33 sng)

[/ QUOTE ] i sat there for 2 hours one time and the most it went to was 7 people.

[Barrin6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tell WPEX to support firepay.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[cracker9521]

Whoever is in charge of getting them to support firepay please have them install some 6max nl tables for me please.

[Uncle Wimp]

[ QUOTE ]
Eventually it needs to be drilled in to everyone's head that there is simply NOT any legitimate reason to play any where else.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you count buggy software. That's a VERY good reason not to play there. Every time I play the system boots me off in my small blind as if I've timed out. Then it won't let me sit back down again. Try multitabling when that happens.

[RainDog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How long do tourneys take to fill up? ($33 sng)

[/ QUOTE ]

They don't. Ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, but who plays sngs anyway? jk. But if you are a sng player it wouldn't hurt to sit at a WSEX table while you play elsewhere. Someone has to get the ball rolling.

And how about those guaranteed tournies with the monster overlay? It doesn't really get much better for the multi-table tourney player.

[ QUOTE ]
People here on 2+2 know about WPEX.No need for repeated messages

[/ QUOTE ]
Well surely the regulars here know about WPEX, but people not "in the know" do occasionally stumble across this site and it's important that they know that WPEX is the place to play.

I understand that repetition can be annoying, however, repetition is important in swaying opinion. Thinking back to all the sites I've played at a lot of times the decision came about based on how FREQUENT I saw posts about them here. I may have read a convincing post about how great a site Party is to play at, but without being bludgeoned by post after post it would have taken much longer for me to find my way there. This is even more important with WPEX as they don't have the advertising muscle that Party has. So people like me and that other ranting goofball have to get the word out. It doesn't really matter who does the promoting as long as it is done somehow. Source amnesia causes people to forget the specifics of where they gain information and from whom they gain information. They simply remember hearing many times that WSEX is a great place to play. Hopefully, this will lead to them playing there. There is no sensible reason for all the voices of dissent here. You can't possibly believe that it is a bad thing for people to be playing at WSEX, so why the negative responses? If you've found some reason not to play there then don't, but I can not understand the motivation to dissuade others from playing there.

[ QUOTE ]
Post again when there are more than a 100 active players at peak time

[/ QUOTE ]

There is currently over 150 players seated at limit tables alone. So maybe 125 discounting multi-tablers. That's not huge, but it's sufficient enough for some game selection.

[ QUOTE ]
ahhhh, I love n00bs. Still have the default thread views set at 10. Prolly uses threaded mode too.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm hardly a n00b, but you are right that I have not changed any defaults. Sorry, just haven't been motivated to. But then it's noobs that need to hear about WSEX on the front page and as many times as possible. So I still believe this post is entirely relevant.

[ QUOTE ]
Does WPEX allow you to change your screenname after you open an account?

[/ QUOTE ]
Who knows? Ask support, they are available 24hrs via live chat from the website. Another good reason to play there. [ QUOTE ]
Tell WPEX to support firepay

[/ QUOTE ]
Good point. I don't use it so I haven't really thought about the lack of it. Hopefully they will implement firepay at some point, but there ARE other deposit methods. [ QUOTE ]
I hear the games really suck



[/ QUOTE ] Only for bad players (Not everyone can win). I see some flat out retarded play at almost every single table I sit at (Disclaimer: I play 90% 5-max tables so I can't speak well for full)

[ QUOTE ]
It's sad the number of people that flame somebody for posts like these. If you don't like it, don't read it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Precisely

[ QUOTE ]
Spamming the same topic again and again is not helpful.

[/ QUOTE ] I disagree with you here MicroBob for the reasons above. And it's not exactly spam if it's coming from a player that's excited about the site. Isn't that at least some of this forum's purpose?

[ QUOTE ]
While the level of play of all 2+2'ers is not exactly mind-blowingly brilliant all the time I still don't really want ALL 2+2'ers to populate the tables there.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, like you said "Some players have decided to play there, Others have not". This is quite true for the regular posters who are most likely the ones we would be worried about tightening up the tables. I probably can't sway their opinion much anyhow. However, the population of casual lurkers probably isn't THAT much more skilled than the general poker playing population. In any event, with traffic, fish will come (I believe they already have). We should just be encouraging as many people as possible to do their poker playing at WPEX.

[ QUOTE ]
I think WSEX rocks.
I am supporting them as well with my sports-bets (otherwise known as 'hunches') because I believe in what they are doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Likewise. I'm even taking bets from friends and placing them on WSEX. And I feel I should convey that I believe you're a good guy even though we disagree on a few trivial points. I appreciate your contributions to the zoo.

[ QUOTE ]
But there actually ARE reasons to play elsewhere...and it's not entirely all 'fish-related' either.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll concede that for a few people this is true. But I do believe that MOST players would do better at WSEX.

One better option for some folks may be propping at bigger sites, but I simply don't see very many players being successful props. Even if they were successful, they might still prefer the rakefree model. I propped for over a year, and frankly I'd rather avoid the responsibility (Though to be fair, my prop managers didn't make unfair demands. It was a pretty easy job).

Why deal with chasing bonuses from site to site, running cash from here to there, and making affiliates rich when you can just play at WPEX and relax?

[RainDog]

[ QUOTE ]

Unless you count buggy software. That's a VERY good reason not to play there. Every time I play the system boots me off in my small blind as if I've timed out. Then it won't let me sit back down again. Try multitabling when that happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. Buggy software sucks and I wouldn't play somewhere under those conditions. But I've had no software problems (Other than the rake meter in the first few weeks of the new program), so hopefully it isn't affecting too many people. But even the biggest sites have frequent bugs.

[adanthar]

I play two things, tournaments and NL cash.

1)They don't have any decent tournaments
2)Not only can you disconnect in NL cash, it gives you the side pot unless you email support

Until they fix both of those, I see no reason to play there yet.

[HSB]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tell WPEX to support firepay.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[Synergistic Explosions]

Who else here is surprised WPEX hasn't grown much in the last month? I sure am.

[Barrin6]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Tell WPEX to support firepay.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
I emailed them last month about it and they never responded. I suggest everyone to do the same so fish like me can play there. Seriously I suck at poker.

[JOEL_]

It is my belief that alot of people on line have not been in the poker buisness that long. [ QUOTE ]
Who else here is surprised WPEX hasn't grown much in the last month? I sure am.


[/ QUOTE ]
They cannot truly appreciate what WPEX means to their possible future of on line play.
A site like this in the begining needs support of players,but alot of players are just simply waiting to see what happens to WPEX.We as players can finally do something about our future and people really do not appreciate that.
I am starting to beleive people are addicted to chasing bonuses,chasing their own tail.WPEX is too simple,they don't charge you nothing(hard to believe I know)nothing to chase.

[runner4life7]

[ QUOTE ]
It's sad the number of people that flame somebody for posts like these. If you don't like it, don't read it!

[/ QUOTE ]

its sad that you dont realize this guy is a prick that thinks that he found the answer to everyone's problems and while i think rake free is nice, that he is shallow in his thinking. I play sngs. but clearly thats not a good reason. Can i 12 table the 27turbos like i can on stars? jackass

[TylerD]

I'm dissapointed, but can't say I'm surprised. They don't have enough marketing.

[MicroBob]

Even with a ton of marketing it's kind of a 'slowly but surely' situation.


Full tilt has as much marketing as anybody. And they're not exactly pushing 100k players at peak like party and stars.


I think a lot of 2+2'ers got frustrated by the tougher-than-usual competition and decided to give up on it for the time-being.


I was having higher hopes for it also. Oh well.

[LetsPlay1969]

[ QUOTE ]
Who else here is surprised WPEX hasn't grown much in the last month? I sure am.

[/ QUOTE ]

Graphics don't help.

The average "play for the fun of it" player will stay with a site they know and like and will rate graphics, availability of games and game play much higher than 100% Rake Back.

[jasonHoldEm]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm dissapointed, but can't say I'm surprised. They don't have enough marketing.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, they aren't trying very hard. I wrote them a nice little email requesting they send me a standard size banner and/or just tell me where to find one on their site and I'd put it up on my website free of charge and I never got a response back.

Granted, they probably know only 4 people visit my site, but come on...

J

[Eder]

Last nite =

2 tables WSEX 2-4 -16BB's
2 tables Paradise 5-10 +28BB's

I payed more attention to my WSEX tables haha

[MNpoker]

I sat at a 10/20 table today just to see if I could get a game going.

It took about 1/2 hour but once we got to 3 players it went to 5 almost immediately.

My last month:
Party - $3,000
WSEX + $1,000 and another $1,400 in rakeback OR $2,400.

With about 1/3 the hands at WSEX as Party.

I can see some people ot playing a WSEX yet. But for 10/20 Shorthanded I really can't believe people are 2 BB /100 better at Party.

The RAKE in a SH limit game is insane!! No wonder sites have so many shorthanded tables now.

I'm certainly not.

anyone paying over $20 per hour in Rake (after rakeback, etc.) should be playng at this site (or AT LEAST watching it and hoping it takes off).

[mpslg]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm dissapointed, but can't say I'm surprised. They don't have enough marketing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just got my new Cardplayer and there is a big article on WPEX in there. That can't hurt.

[Pokeraddict]

[ QUOTE ]
And it's not exactly spam if it's coming from a player that's excited about the site. Isn't that at least some of this forum's purpose?

[/ QUOTE ]

Since there is no front page WSEX thread, I figure it's due time to make my own pointless thread.

Creating new threads about the same topic over and over again is forum spam and your OP admits it is starting a pointless thread. It does not matter if it is made by a shill, a troll or a player it is still forum spam. Spam like that only hurt the point you are trying to get across. I've seen you spam other forums too with pointless posts like that, all it does is hurt your cause.

[ski]

1. Threads like this should be deleted
2. Why would you want other 2+2ers playing in an already extremely tight site?

[Q_and_A]

Assuming this is the best thread (of many) to get info on WPEX, Here are some questions:

1. Can you contact the site to get any info before creating an account? I couldn't find the answers to these questions.

2. What methods are available to fund the poker account other than Netteller?

3. The "create account" screen appears to only allow an 8 character user log in name. I see players on WPEX with screen names of more than 8 characters. Do you select a screen name after you create an account?

4. Can your screen name be different than the user login?

5. How often can you change you change your screen name?

Probably more questions to follow.

[JOEL_]

1. support@worldpx.com

2. They listed other ways but I cannot remember them right now.

3. Yes, you select a screen name after you created a
username.

4. Yes.

5. Don't know.

[DMBFan23]

provide players with a (poor) level of competition such that they can make more than they currently make on party (counting the rakeback, of course), and they will be right over.

UNTIL THEN, SHUT THE [censored] UP ABOUT WPEX. NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY WITH A BUNCH OF MULTITABLING TIGHT AGGRO 2+2ERS

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
provide players with a (poor) level of competition such that they can make more than they currently make on party (counting the rakeback, of course), and they will be right over.

UNTIL THEN, SHUT THE [censored] UP ABOUT WPEX. NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY WITH A BUNCH OF MULTITABLING TIGHT AGGRO 2+2ERS

[/ QUOTE ]

Bit of a :meltdown: ?

You did know this was a WSEX thread right?

[almostbusto]

[ QUOTE ]
provide players with a (poor) level of competition such that they can make more than they currently make on party (counting the rakeback, of course), and they will be right over.

UNTIL THEN, SHUT THE [censored] UP ABOUT WPEX. NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY WITH A BUNCH OF MULTITABLING TIGHT AGGRO 2+2ERS

[/ QUOTE ]I WISH THE AFFILIATES/FISH WOULD SHUT THE [censored] UP

seriously the games are good there. maybe not great but they are definitely good. jump into a 5max game sometime and find out for yourself

[DMBFan23]

lol I'm not an affiliate, I just like money.

I actually hope you're right, I would love to have Party's game quality on a 100% rakeback site.

but while the games are tight and not any good, don't wonder why traffic is so small. a whole thread was started about "please post if you are up, these games are so hard!!!". that's not good advertising...

EDIT: more great advertising on the front page with their buggy software. lol.

[costanza_g]

[ QUOTE ]
lol I'm not an affiliate, I just like money.



[/ QUOTE ]

If you like money, then why aren't you trying to get the 2+2ers off of the site you play and onto WPEX?

[Our House]

As someone who's played at both sites over the past month, and someone who knows DMBfan pretty well, I can back up his statements; about both not being an affiliate and the WPx games.

I'm still playing at both places and trying to get a feel for what's what. I can say this: Games on the W are MUCH harder.

That's not just something I'm pulling out of my ass, BTW. WPx players, take a look around you. I just started importing my hands to PT about 15000 hands ago. Those of you who have some PT records, I suggest you look at the summary tab and start gauging the competition before saying that the games are good. The ONLY thing that makes the decision close is 100% rakeback. That's it.

Highest VPIP (100 hands minimum) that I found from any player on the site was 42.3 -- this includes 5 max games! I don't buy the argument about making a ton of money postflop from tight players. Most of the players that have the discipline or knowledge to play tight preflop aren't going to spew a ton postflop. One day you will get the best of me...next day, I will get the best of you. Of course, there will be a few marginal exceptions, but for the most part, we're all reasonable enough in our judgement not to fold top sets or cap turns with UI 7-highs. This is the main reason that so many players (check your DBs on WPx) are in the red. As time goes on, you will see the result of tight games start to unfold into a minisule amount of green players and a massive amount of red players. Right now, it's early in the PT stage and a lot of this is still masked behind variance.

Also, check your AA stats. Normal winrate for AA at a site with good games should be around 2.5-3.0 BB/hand with an 80% winning percentage. After 15000 hands, my AA is winning at 90% on WPx and making 2.0 BB/hand. This is what happens on tight sites. Same goes for my KK, QQ and JJ. Don't expect to be so-called "postflop wizards" and try to make up for this huge difference by attempting to beat your "weak", tight opponents over the head with J9o. It's a pipe dream.

Expect to make around 2BB/100 in rake at the 3/6 to 5/10 level, a little more at lower limits, and a little less at higher limits. But, also don't be disappointed if you lose in the games; expect it.

I feel I'm running average on the site, and I'm down like 0.25BB/100 overall. Of course, those running poorly will back up my statements and those running well will deny what I have said. However, don't let short term results cloud your judgement either way. Make no mistake about it...what I'm saying is VERY much the truth.

[JOEL_]

good post

[PokerAmateur4]

[ QUOTE ]
good post

[/ QUOTE ]

[Q_and_A]

If total rake is 2 BB/100 at those limits, doesn't that mean that your win rate at WPEX can be approximately 2 BB/100 less than at Party to break even between the two?

What do you think the Party VIP promotions and bonuses average in terms of rakeback? 10-15-20-25%?

[MNpoker]

I have no idea what tables you are playing but it certainly is not the same ones I am.

Show some PT stats to back up these claims. I have in another thread showed mine and asked for Party PT stats to compare but no one came forward.

[MNpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
As someone who's played at both sites over the past month, and someone who knows DMBfan pretty well, I can back up his statements; about both not being an affiliate and the WPx games.

I'm still playing at both places and trying to get a feel for what's what. I can say this: Games on the W are MUCH harder.

[/ QUOTE ]
They are different yes. Harder, I don't have enough data to answer.

But my current win rate (after 5,000 hands) is higher than my winrate at party has been this year, and that is before rakeback.
[ QUOTE ]

That's not just something I'm pulling out of my ass, BTW. WPx players, take a look around you. I just started importing my hands to PT about 15000 hands ago. Those of you who have some PT records, I suggest you look at the summary tab and start gauging the competition before saying that the games are good. The ONLY thing that makes the decision close is 100% rakeback. That's it.

Highest VPIP (100 hands minimum) that I found from any player on the site was 42.3 -- this includes 5 max games!


[/ QUOTE ]
Of the top 15 players (other than me) in may DB 5 have VPIP's over 40 (highest one is 63.59).

ALL THOSE PLAYERS have a minimum of 188 hands.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't buy the argument about making a ton of money postflop from tight players. Most of the players that have the discipline or knowledge to play tight preflop aren't going to spew a ton postflop. One day you will get the best of me...next day, I will get the best of you. Of course, there will be a few marginal exceptions, but for the most part, we're all reasonable enough in our judgement not to fold top sets or cap turns with UI 7-highs. This is the main reason that so many players (check your DBs on WPx) are in the red.

[/ QUOTE ]
47.00 % Green
53% red.

[ QUOTE ]

As time goes on, you will see the result of tight games start to unfold into a minisule amount of green players and a massive amount of red players. Right now, it's early in the PT stage and a lot of this is still masked behind variance.

Also, check your AA stats. Normal winrate for AA at a site with good games should be around 2.5-3.0 BB/hand with an 80% winning percentage.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wine Rate 100% -- BB per hand 3.63

[ QUOTE ]

After 15000 hands, my AA is winning at 90% on WPx and making 2.0 BB/hand. This is what happens on tight sites. Same goes for my KK, QQ and JJ. Don't expect to be so-called "postflop wizards" and try to make up for this huge difference by attempting to beat your "weak", tight opponents over the head with J9o. It's a pipe dream.


[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds to me your reaction to playing verse Rocks was to become one. (Maybe that's why your AA gets so little action?)

What are your VPIP's on WSEX v Party? I'd bet it's lower.
[ QUOTE ]

Expect to make around 2BB/100 in rake at the 3/6 to 5/10 level, a little more at lower limits, and a little less at higher limits. But, also don't be disappointed if you lose in the games; expect it.

[/ QUOTE ]
So far (in limited action) I'm at 1.90 BB / 100 before rakeback. (And I NEVER played shorthanded before April 1st).

[ QUOTE ]

I feel I'm running average on the site, and I'm down like 0.25BB/100 overall. Of course, those running poorly will back up my statements and those running well will deny what I have said. However, don't let short term results cloud your judgement either way. Make no mistake about it...what I'm saying is VERY much the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]
In your case.

Still would like to see some PT stats showing the differences.

[Piers]

[ QUOTE ]
Eventually it needs to be drilled in to everyone's head that there is simply NOT any legitimate reason to play any where else.


[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. There are several other sites where you can regularly get 90%+ rakeback. Also you can only play three games at WPEX, sometimes not even that.

Besides to some people playing in a softer game is more important than the money.

[fyodor]

[ QUOTE ]


Besides to some people playing in a softer game is more important than the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense to me. I can see someone saying playing in a tougher game is more important than the money. i.e. to test yourself against tougher opposition in an effort to improve your game and forgoe immeditate monetary results. But why play in softer games if you don't care about the money? So you don't have to think?

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Besides to some people playing in a softer game is more important than the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

This makes no sense to me. I can see someone saying playing in a tougher game is more important than the money. i.e. to test yourself against tougher opposition in an effort to improve your game and forgoe immeditate monetary results. But why play in softer games if you don't care about the money? So you don't have to think?

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah... what?

I would play in a tougher game to try and get better.

I play in soft games to make money.

So I don't get it either.

[Piers]

It’s easier to out play the opposition in a softer game, and generally feel good about your play.

You want to see some fish as its important to your ego that you know your better than someone at the table /images/graemlins/wink.gif

Even if making money is an important part of your poker playing, it requires some level of mathematical intuition to appreciate just what effect an extra 50% of rakeback has on your bottom line. Clearly this is beyond most players as the WPEX servers are still coping.

[Peter666]

I guess these are the same type of players who like to criticize your play and basically evaluate your skill as a poker player after watching three hands. There seem to be many of these loosers populating the internet, and they need to feel power and control. Poker rapists.

[Peter666]

"There are several other sites where you can regularly get 90%+ rakeback."

Which other sites give 90% rakeback?

[tom10167]

ninety PLUS! PIERS PLEASE TELL US AND YOU CAN'T SAY WSEX BECAUSE WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THAT ONE

[Piers]

90% incusive of bonus VIP deals etc and dependant on level.

Some possabliities to consider are Cryptos, nine prop deals. Also some you need to get a certain VIP level.