Best site for online backgammon?

[dsaxton]

What's the best site for online backgammon? I've played some at Truemoneygames.com and the Play 65 room. True Money Games has very few games running at any given time, and Play 65 charges an outrageous rake. Any other choices?

[jman220]

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What's the best site for online backgammon? I've played some at Truemoneygames.com and the Play 65 room. True Money Games has very few games running at any given time, and Play 65 charges an outrageous rake. Any other choices?

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Unless I'm mistaken isn't it pretty much impossible to play backgammon online profitably because of the prevalence of Backgammon AI assistance that can beat all but the top players?

[Lawman]

Yes - I've just started playing for fun money. Wouldn't go anywhere near real money tables. The T&Cs don't allow the use of Jellyfish, Snowie etc, but it's not entirely clear how they might enforce it. Bearing in mind the amount of bots on the poker scene it's hard to imagine that there isn't a lot of cheating going on in backgammon. The biggest difference being that the backgammon bots are much better.

[Robertie]

This objection has been discussed repeatedly recently -- see the "Party Backgammon" thread. The quick answer is that such cheating is theoretically possible but in practice rare and easy to detect.

The best site doesn't really exist yet. Play65/Gammon Empire has recently increased their rakes to truly absurd levels, and I assume their business will dry up quickly. TrueMoneyGames is a nice site and it's pretty easy to get a cash game, but tournaments are rare and sparsely attended. Rakes are reasonable, however. GamesGrid also lacks a good tournament structure and the rating system tends to dry up action. Its graphics and features are by far the best of any site, and the rake is quite reasonable, so it's probably still the "best" site. Still, the site that combines great graphics/features, low rakes, and an active tournament scene still isn't there yet. The market is ripe for a takeover.

[jman220]

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The quick answer is that such cheating is theoretically possible but in practice rare and easy to detect.

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I wasn't talking about an automated bot, I menat even just playing but having an AI program telling you (the human player) what the best moves are to make. I was under the impression that backgammon AI had gotten to the point that it played at a very high expert level, am I wrong about this?

[pzhon]

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The quick answer is that such cheating is theoretically possible but in practice rare and easy to detect.

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I wasn't talking about an automated bot, I menat even just playing but having an AI program telling you (the human player) what the best moves are to make.

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I think that method of cheating is what Robertie was talking about. As has been mentioned many times before, it is suspiciously slow, and the agreement of your play with bots' preferences would stand out to anyone who analyzes the match afterwards. (I analyze almost all of my matches, as do many players.) Top human players have a significant error rate when measured by bots, some of which is due to the bots' misevaluations.

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I was under the impression that backgammon AI had gotten to the point that it played at a very high expert level, am I wrong about this?

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Bots now play at a very high level, better than the vast majority of competitive human players, if not all of us.

It is still possible to play backgammon online profitably, and I have encountered very little evidence of cheating.