Dreamclown v Daniel Negreanu

[Sponger.]

Has anyone been following this little feud thats been going on @ nwp.com and fcp.com? Can we start up with our own little pathetic banter before they actually play each other again?

[Clayton]

not really, though if they play again I'd like to watch

[PairTheBoard]

I'm thinking it will be fun to watch. If the posts are to be believed, there was another player who played DC, beat him for 50k and whom DC quit against, claiming the player was playing too well for DC to get a good edge. DC was not as impressed with DN's play.

Evidently DreamClown is actually 4 players who play as a team.

PairTheBoard

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone been following this little feud thats been going on @ nwp.com and fcp.com?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. what is it?

[mmbt0ne]

Cliffnotes on the GCC thing?

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
Cliffnotes on the GCC thing?

[/ QUOTE ]

Negreanu gets all hard on his site saying hes gonna play 500-1k on pokerroom "if he can get any challengers". Sits with a small ammount, Dreamclown takes that pretty quick. Then Daniel rebuys for like 8k? Dreamclown refuses to play him if he doesnt reload to a higher ammount. They argue for a while, Daniel leaves and then posts in his blog whining about the whole thing and says he is going to deposite 200k on pokerroom once he gets the money ready. They talk some trash for a few days on separate sites.

Then Daniel writes on his message board, citing anonymous sources, that GCC colludes on the high stakes NL ring games at UB. This is of course extremely low class and untrue, and then he posts an apology on his message board and then his entire site applauds him for owning up to it and acknowledging that he was wrong, complete forgetting what a piece of trash he is for posting that in the first place.

If you go on both message boards you can sum it up pretty quick.

[mmbt0ne]

That's cool. Now who/what is GCC?

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone been following this little feud thats been going on @ nwp.com and fcp.com?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. what is it?

[/ QUOTE ]

DN played DC 500-1000 online a couple of times, with 20k and 30k buyins. When DN's stack got low DC refused to continue unless DN rebought. DN blogged his criticism claiming it was not Old School Etiquette. DN has deposited 200k to continue the match - blogging his banking problems with the funds transfer.

DC was waiting with a 400k stack last night. DN showed up after DC had left. This is at PokerRoom or the DN FCP Website which is now a skin for PokerRoom. DreamClown is purported as being one of the top online headsup holdem players in the world - although I guess he is actually 4 people.

PairTheBoard

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
That's cool. Now who/what is GCC?

[/ QUOTE ]

A bunch of tools from the boston area who play well at high limit heads up poker games.

...I think?

[gilbert]

is dn still playing challenge matches?

[Clayton]

So again, aplogizes for bringing up accusations without proof, but I'm still going to bury you guys.

After I humble you sonny boy, I'll take you to the bar and buy you a drink. Then, I'll teach you lesson #2- humility, how to win with class.

I will talk some smack now, because you aren't hurtin' yet. Once I put a nice big dent into that stack, though, I won't tell you, "I told you so," I won't laugh in your face, and I won't mock you. I'll console you, letting you know it happens to all young kids who bite off more than they can chew.

Until then, be warned, big Daddy is coming to nab your roll!

- Daniel Negreanu


Oh my!

[trying2learn]

[ QUOTE ]
So again, aplogizes for bringing up accusations without proof, but I'm still going to bury you guys.

After I humble you sonny boy, I'll take you to the bar and buy you a drink. Then, I'll teach you lesson #2- humility, how to win with class.

I will talk some smack now, because you aren't hurtin' yet. Once I put a nice big dent into that stack, though, I won't tell you, "I told you so," I won't laugh in your face, and I won't mock you. I'll console you, letting you know it happens to all young kids who bite off more than they can chew.

Until then, be warned, big Daddy is coming to nab your roll!

- Daniel Negreanu


Oh my!

[/ QUOTE ]

where is that from?

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll console you, letting you know it happens to all young kids who bite off more than they can chew.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
is dn still playing challenge matches?

[/ QUOTE ]

My theory is the entire thing was a sham for publicity, cause it seems crazy that he only played against what? 6 people in 10 months or something?

Yeah I'm sure all the high rollers at the bellagio were just too busy to come over to the bellagio with 500k and rock daniel in their best game.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif
nothing like blatent speculation!

[Sponger.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll console you, letting you know it happens to all young kids who bite off more than they can chew.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed,

So does this mean you are rooting for daniel? We need people to start picking sides here!

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi pair:

It's always been my opinion that when your stack gets low you're actually at an advantage since you can go all-in and get crorrect odds on otherwise bad calls. Yes, I'm aware that there are disdvantages as well to being short on chips, but in my opinion this one advantage outweighs everything else. So perhaps it's possible that Dream Cloud thinks the same way and that's why he wanted Negreanu to buy-in again.

best wishes,
Mason

[Sponger.]

Mason,

One of his reasons DreamClown gave was that if Daniel wasn't going to reload, and Daniel has $8k left compared to the $100k DreamClown has on the table, he was risking $100k to only win $8k

[felson]

Hi Mason,

I don't think having a short stack is an advantage in heads-up play. Right?

Felson

Edit: I haven't read the other site -- apologies if the games were three-or-more handed.

[henrikrh]

[ QUOTE ]
Mason,

One of his reasons DreamClown gave was that if Daniel wasn't going to reload, and Daniel has $8k left compared to the $100k DreamClown has on the table, he was risking $100k to only win $8k

[/ QUOTE ]

That's silly reasoning since the likelihood that DN loses his 8k is much much smaller compared to the likelihood that DC will lose his 100k, assuming that they are equally good players or DC is better. DC should stop once DN playing with 8k got on his nerves though, not cause of the reason he gave but because it has already affected his state of mind, and he can afford to play DN another time when everything is perfect.

[cpitt398]

GCC is 4 different people but Dreamclown is only one person. He plays the HU limit matches. The other members play other forms of poker better. Th3y only pool there money together to play 500-1000 and when one of them plays Hellmuth on UB. They aren't making desicions together for instance or switching in and out.

[mike l.]

"I'll console you, letting you know it happens to all young kids who bite off more than they can chew."

isnt dan n like 27? lol

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll teach you lesson #2- humility, how to win with class.





[/ QUOTE ]

What's lesson #1 "how to lose with class"?

And who is going to teach Dreamclown that, apparently DN hasn't learned it.

[J_V]

This is all true, but as a friend pointed out - it's not too much to ask for someone to have enough money to have to make a decision on all streets at this limit.

[J_V]

Put me down on the Dreamclown side. Fully expecting him to steamroll DN. Those four cats play damn good head's up poker.

[whiskeytown]

I'm gonna take Daniel's side just cause I've gotten the impression there's a c%#$sucker or two over at NWP.

RB

[J_V]

This isn't true. There are four friends that play lots of heads up and occasionally take pieces of each other but play their own accounts. This is very public information, but I believe the four players are eugeenel, woodrow, dreamclown, get crunk. I think they all play holdem, get crunk plays some omaha, although all he does is hit and run me and eugeenel plays stud 8 and omaha 8 also.

[___1___]

[ QUOTE ]
This isn't true. There are four friends that play lots of heads up and occasionally take pieces of each other but play their own accounts. This is very public information, but I believe the four players are eugeenel, woodrow, dreamclown, get crunk. I think they all play holdem, get crunk plays some omaha, although all he does is hit and run me and eugeenel plays stud 8 and omaha 8 also.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Dreamclown is the only one that plays 500/1000 though. I believe everyone else plays up to 200/400 for the most part (unless Phil H. is at the table). I think it's safe to say DN will only get Dreamclown when he's playing 500/1000.

As far as handicapping, I don't think DN is seasoned enough in online limit HU to compete with Dreamclown right off the bat. From the little I've seen of DN on Pokerroom, I don't think it'll be long until he's playing at (or close to) the same level of Dreamclown. I'm not convinced DN's 300bbs are going to be enough to withstand that initial battering he might receive though. Just my opinion...

___1___

[Clayton]

has dreamclown always been dreamclown, J_V? I'm familiar with get_crunk and eugene but not the other two.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi henrikrh:

This idea is discussed in a couple of our books such as Sklansky on Poker. If there are two players, call them A and B, and they are perfectly evenly matched, and the game is also evenly matched in all other respects, and A has 90 percent of the chips versus 10 percent of the chips for B and they proceed to play a freeze out, Player A can expect to win 90 percent of these freeze outs. That's because in the long run each player expects to win the same amount of chips, and the only way this can happen (in this example) is for A to win 9 out of 10 times.

So saying that Negreanu can only lose $8,000 but win $100,000 is a fallacious argument. However, saying that Negreanu would have other advantages starting short stacked may have significant merit.

By the way, given Negreanu's history, I suspect he'll get lots of chips and be ready to play.

best wishes,
Mason

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
has dreamclown always been dreamclown, J_V? I'm familiar with get_crunk and eugene but not the other two.

[/ QUOTE ]

i've seen woodrow play high limit on stars and ub.

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
Put me down on the Dreamclown side. Fully expecting him to steamroll DN.

[/ QUOTE ]

me too. i don't know if he's played a lot of live heads up limit hold'em, but even if he's put in a lot of hours live, it's a completely different game than online. i have a feeling whoever watches these matches are going to see a few meltdowns.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
So saying that Negreanu can only lose $8,000 but win $100,000 is a fallacious argument. However, saying that Negreanu would have other advantages starting short stacked may have significant merit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mason,

I don't understand what those advantages could be. In heads-up play, having a short stack confers no advantage if both players are equally skilled.

However, playing a short stack could help DN to level the playing field, if he feels that DC plays the later streets better than he does. (If so, this would imply that DN is playing for reasons other than immediate poker EV .) Is this what you intended? Or were you thinking of something else? I am curious.

Thanks,
Felson

[LAtoLV]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll console you, letting you know it happens to all young kids who bite off more than they can chew.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

NH, Sir.

[J_V]

Agreed!

[J_V]

Rumour has it that he may or may not have been Rgp2000. Not sure about the RGP part, but someone told me the name once and he was a huge pain in the ass.

[Ed Miller]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll console you, letting you know it happens to all young kids who bite off more than they can chew.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed,

So does this mean you are rooting for daniel? We need people to start picking sides here!

[/ QUOTE ]

Nah. If I gotta root, I'll root for the anonymous internet guys.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi henrikrh:

This idea is discussed in a couple of our books such as Sklansky on Poker. If there are two players, call them A and B, and they are perfectly evenly matched, and the game is also evenly matched in all other respects, and A has 90 percent of the chips versus 10 percent of the chips for B and they proceed to play a freeze out, Player A can expect to win 90 percent of these freeze outs. That's because in the long run each player expects to win the same amount of chips, and the only way this can happen (in this example) is for A to win 9 out of 10 times.

So saying that Negreanu can only lose $8,000 but win $100,000 is a fallacious argument. However, saying that Negreanu would have other advantages starting short stacked may have significant merit.


[/ QUOTE ]

are these two concepts not contradictory?

how can you have "other advantages" having only 10% of the chips, and still only have a 10% chance of winning if you're equally good players?

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Felson:

I have already answered this in my other post.

best wishes,
Mason

[dibbs]

It'd be great if someone would post a thorough explanation of the short stack advantage theory in Poker Theory because IIRC this gets brought up about once a month, recently revamped by Barry G.

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
Rumour has it that he may or may not have been Rgp2000. Not sure about the RGP part, but someone told me the name once and he was a huge pain in the ass.

[/ QUOTE ]

i believe it was rpm2000 or 9000.. or something, on stars.

i know a few of these guys personally, while i am not down with the whole "crew" idea, i am def rooting for them vs DN

[J_V]

The crew part of this saga is lame. I fully agree.

[glen]

"it's possible that Dream Cloud thinks the same way . . . "

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
"it's possible that Dream Cloud thinks the same way . . . "

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Chris "Jesus Christ" Ferguson

[/ QUOTE ]

[PairTheBoard]

My impression that DC is 4 people may have been based on DN's opinion. In this thread at FCP, DreamClown posts under the name Sansone and strongly denies DN's claim that the GCC will be tag-teaming him. Another member of GCC, Get crunk also posts in support of Sansone/DC. Negreanu posts his suspicions. There are 4 or 5 pertinent posts in the 4 page thread of mostly fluff.

Dreamclown speaks as Sansone (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/viewtopic.php?t=42782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0)


PairTheBoard

[gilbert]

[ QUOTE ]
My impression that DC is 4 people may have been based on DN's opinion. In this thread at FCP, DreamClown posts under the name Sansone and strongly denies DN's claim that the GCC will be tag-teaming him. Another member of GCC, Get crunk also posts in support of Sansone/DC. Negreanu posts his suspicions. There are 4 or 5 pertinent posts in the 4 page thread of mostly fluff.

Dreamclown speaks as Sansone (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/viewtopic.php?t=42782&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=0)


PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

i only the read the original post but i saw there were four pages of replies. i can only imagine how the dn groupies are defending him in that thread.

i hope dreamclown busts his ass. dn is such a [censored] talker it's unreal.

i don't understand how these old timers who know nothing about internet poker think they have such a huge edge on the young internet pros. just because they've been busting them in the live tournies doesn't mean they can beat them online. look at hellmuth. iirc he donates every night on ub.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi pair:

It's always been my opinion that when your stack gets low you're actually at an advantage since you can go all-in and get crorrect odds on otherwise bad calls. Yes, I'm aware that there are disdvantages as well to being short on chips, but in my opinion this one advantage outweighs everything else. So perhaps it's possible that Dream Cloud thinks the same way and that's why he wanted Negreanu to buy-in again.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Mason,

I'm not sure if this came from Dreamclown or one of his supporters. But I believe his argument was that the short stack turns the game into more or less of a coin flip, thus negating the advantage for the superior player. My impression is that Dreamclown is only interested in playing when he believes he has an advantage. Not exactly an alien concept to 2+2ers.

PairTheBoard

[piranha]

It's my understanding that a player would have an advantage with a short-stack if they were out of position thereby negating their opponents positional advantage. Similarly, they'd be at a disadvantage if they were short-stacked and in position.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
piranha -
<font color="white">.
</font> It's my understanding that a player would have an advantage with a short-stack if they were out of position thereby negating their opponents positional advantage. Similarly, they'd be at a disadvantage if they were short-stacked and in position.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder who had the button when DC demanded the rebuy.

It seems to me that playing headsup, if one player is shortstacked then the other player is virtually shortstacked by an equal amount. For example, if player A has 100k and player B has 5k, then player A might just as well put 95k aside since none of that money can possibly come into play. It's as if they are both playing with 5k. Therefore, it seems to me that, disregarding position, the short stack bestows the same advantages and disadvantages on both players - Headsup.

Taking it to the extreme case where the short stack is the size of the blind, it would take all the skill out of the game and turn it into a coin flip.

PairTheBoard

[Clayton]

this is getting bumped because if they throw down tomorrow I want to know immmmeeeeeediately

[drewjustdrew]

An example of short-stack advantage:

500-1000 blinds. One raise preflop, so there is a 4000 pot. Lets say you only have 500 left in your stack. Since you will be getting 9-1 on your money (when your opponent bets), it will be correct make many calls that you should otherwise fold if you have a larger stack and only received 4-1 to call for 1000. I believe Mason would argue that this advantage is much better than your future implied earn if you make your hand on future streets.

[PairTheBoard]

[ QUOTE ]
An example of short-stack advantage:

500-1000 blinds. One raise preflop, so there is a 4000 pot. Lets say you only have 500 left in your stack. Since you will be getting 9-1 on your money (when your opponent bets), it will be correct make many calls that you should otherwise fold if you have a larger stack and only received 4-1 to call for 1000. I believe Mason would argue that this advantage is much better than your future implied earn if you make your hand on future streets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Multiway may be different. But we are in a heads up setting.

The thing is it's symmetric. In your example the large stack gets the same extra good odds to call if it's the small stack doing the betting of the 500.

Both players are playing the hand with essentially the same number of chips. The excess chips for the big stack are not relevant to the hand. The short stack changes the nature of the game but not the balance - disregarding position.

PairTheBoard

[TStoneMBD]

Assuming players are equal in skill, the shortstack player in heads up matches has NO advantage over a larger stack player. period.

it was mentioned here that dreamclown might not want to play dn with a shortstack because dreamclown might feel they are equally matched at shortstack play and he would therefore have no advantage. well, thats not entirely true because if daniel wins a pot he no longer has a shortstack and dreamclown can go back to having his normal assumed edge against daniel.

a couple of things dreamclown might have been thinking:

daniel is the favorite over me with a shortstack
if i tell daniel i wont play him when hes shortstacked hell rebuy big and i can take all that money off of him instead of his continual small buyins.

[TStoneMBD]

i just read daniel's blog, and this is what he had to say about the dreamclown shortstack situation:

[ QUOTE ]
I was ready to continue, but Dreamclown was sitting out asking for me to reload. Unfortunately, the contact I have to reload my account was asleep by then and that's all the money I had access to at the time.

The Clown was explaining to me that it wasn't worth it for him to risk $68,000 to win $5000. That he didn't play "short stacks."

I didn't want to go into great detail with him explaining the ludicrous nature of his concerns, but figured I'd mention it here in the blog in case some of you feel as though it's somehow a "disadvantage" to play against a short stack.

The idea that he is risking $68,000 to win $5000 is a ludicrous analogy. he can quit anytime he wants, so if he wanted to, he could risk $5000 to win $5000. No one is putting a gun to his head to go through the whole bankroll if he didn't want to.

So since Dreamclown didn't want to play anymore, I headed down to the $250-$500 game against Jonesus. I bought in for $5000 there... and it lasted three hands!

[/ QUOTE ]


everything he said there is entirely correct and he doesnt owe anybody an apology.

[PairTheBoard]

Update on the DreamClown vs DN Match (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/viewtopic.php?t=43245) .

lol

PairTheBoard

[Benal]

They're playing right now. 500/1000

[chuddo]

game on. i hate PR.

[chuddo]

it is eugeneel by the way. he had to quit playing on UB to play DN.

edit* can you only view play money tables if you have no money on PR? or am i an idiot? this is pissing me off.

[astroglide]

does one have to have money deposited to see cash games? i can't find anything for real money.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
does one have to have money deposited to see cash games? i can't find anything for real money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. You need real money in acct to view real money games. Throw in $100 and we can play Chinese sometime /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[wheelz]

yes you need to have a real money account to view real money tables, UNLESS you go through negreanu's pokerroom skin at www.fullcontactpoker.com. (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com.) they let you watch there.

he says they're about to start in 5 minutes, so anyone who wants to watch hit up his site.

[thatpfunk]

does anyone else find that policy very bad for them as a business?

edited to add: bad for business in general. these lttle hyped up matches might be helping/ forcing people to put in $.

[astroglide]

that's a good idea, i like chinese.

unfortunately i just threw the last of what i had sitting around in neteller into wsex for a deposit bonus. getting ready for the american idol betting mid january!

i'll probably deposit sometime, but not tonight.

[Schneids]

FWIW so far watching this, I feel like DC is playing better though thus far DN is up 6.5BB as of time of this post.

[Mansavage]

DN seems to be getting hit in the face with the deck. Every time he shows his cards he flopped two pair. DN up 30BB

[cwsiggy]

Another big pot won by Dan, then Dream clown win's it right back - Kidpoker - 80k Dreamclown - 18.7k

What s up with the java format - I set up an account and tried to download it - then it just took me to the java site????

[sweetjazz]

I don't know much about HU play, but I am somewhat surprised by the relative infrequency that they are going to showdown.

Are some marginal calldowns no longer profitable because of the information revealed to your opponent?

[Schneids]

they both seem to be auto checkraising every ace high flop, and they are both getting folds out of eachother nearly every time doing it.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know much about HU play, but I am somewhat surprised by the relative infrequency that they are going to showdown.

Are some marginal calldowns no longer profitable because of the information revealed to your opponent?

[/ QUOTE ]

BTW that is why I thought DC is playing better, because he seems to be winning more pots without showdown, which is the only reason he's still in this...since DN has been getting hit over the head thus far.

[geormiet]

dc folds to flop checkraises easily.

[cwsiggy]

Love the 250k rebuy by Dreamclown. At first I thought it was a 12.5k reload to 25k. haha - Dan is killing him - but limit can be a card catching contest as Dan has said in the past.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW that is why I thought DC is playing better, because he seems to be winning more pots without showdown, which is the only reason he's still in this...since DN has been getting hit over the head thus far.

[/ QUOTE ]

But given that, DC seems to be paying off DN's big hands very handsomely. Now in HU I realize this isn't a horrible error, because your opponent simply won't make big hands very often.

The flop checkraise with an A is an interesting observation, though both players seem to be employing it equally liberally.

[eastbay]

What were the starting stacks here?

eastbay

[cpitt398]

dn started with 50

[Mansavage]

The other thing that I have noticed is that it is much more passive pre-flop than some of the UB 3/6 games that I see. Rarely are these hands raised more than once Pre-Flop, where many UB pots are four and five bet routinely.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
dn started with 50

[/ QUOTE ]

FYI it was actually around 47 that DN started with.

[jba]

why is daniel sitting out anyone know?

just got here...

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
why is daniel sitting out anyone know?

just got here...

[/ QUOTE ]

He'll be back in 10.

[etizzle]

my god this software blows

also schneids, if you really want to learn a few things i suggest you focus on the other table you are observing.

[Clayton]

the Dlable softwarre is a little better

DC making a small comeback

[daryn]

it's not eugene playing

[Kneel B4 Zod]

starting to get ugly

[KneeCo]

can I watch through the Java client without an account?

If so, how?

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
starting to get ugly

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, just when i open it up

[thatpfunk]

i have no idea who is outplayng who, but at what point would DC give up? how big of a hit can his BR take?

please, speculate wildly.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
i have no idea who is outplayng who, but at what point would DC give up? how big of a hit can his BR take?

please, speculate wildly.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. Dreamclown is Andy Beal and $250k is just warmup money.

eastbay

[eastbay]

Is there any way to get a transcript of this match? It might make for some interesting analysis. I know nothing about PR software.

eastbay

[Schneids]

DC is getting sloppy.

[astroglide]

what are the results so far?

[eastbay]

Daniel started with 47k and is up to 142k at the moment. Seems the only question now is when Dreamclown cries uncle. He seemed to think about it when he dropped to $200k.

eastbay

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
what are the results so far?

[/ QUOTE ]

dn up 95k as of now

[The Rev]

no freakin way!
I'm at work...bummer. I'd love to be watching this.
Do you guys think it will stil be going on in 2 hours?

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any way to get a transcript of this match? It might make for some interesting analysis. I know nothing about PR software.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

you can go to pokerroom.com and put in the game number, it will give you the hand and a link to the previous one at the table, and on and on

[ipp147]

Quotes from Neverwin,

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone like myself who understands all the fundamentals of limit holdem heads up can see that DN is the better player in the long run. For the same reason I know I am the favorite over Dreamclown in the long run also. But Dreamclown is only 22 with a lot of talent, but look what happens when he messes with the big boys. Even if he comes back, he still has many things to learn. Anyone can win a lot of money in the short run, only time will tell whether it was luck or skill.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My personal guarantee, the match between Dn and I will be exciting, he has no chance of pwning me. I am transferring money out now, and I will have 150k put into pokerroom within the next week or so...so the long awaited match is coming soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

[PairTheBoard]

It seems to me that Dreamclown is essentially putting up a dead double blind every hand. He always calls a raise out of the big blind, never reraises, and always raises with the button - never 4 betting when reraised. He never folds preflop and never reraises. Well, he reraised once during the session and they joked it must have been a misclick.

Assuming this Dreamclown dead double blind strategy is indeed suboptimal, how much does it cost him?

PairTheBoard

[CaptainNasty]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me that Dreamclown is essentially putting up a dead double blind every hand. He always calls a raise out of the big blind, never reraises, and always raises with the button - never 4 betting when reraised. He never folds preflop and never reraises. Well, he reraised once during the session and they joked it must have been a misclick.

Assuming this Dreamclown dead double blind strategy is indeed suboptimal, how much does it cost him?

PairTheBoard

[/ QUOTE ]

~80k or so

[thatpfunk]

i remember when DN first started his HU matches at the Wynn. There was a ton of speculation about how he would fare, etc. I believe it Mr. Sklansky who pointed out that DN actually has a strong understanding of the math and had done some studying with Alberta Univ. and their cutting edge HU hold 'em research. It seems that most everyone has forgotten about that, but it will be interesting to see how he fares in the future.

I also though that the tempered aggression (compared to the UB games) was semi-surprising. I'll be interested to see how his and nvrwins matches turn out.

[Schneids]

neverwin will definitely force a faster tempo to the match.

[The Rev]

what are the totals?

[eastbay]

DN is thinking "Dream Clown indeed."

Looks like it's over. What was the final take?

eastbay

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
what are the totals?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
~80k or so

[/ QUOTE ]

[daryn]

no.. final for this match was $67k

[The Rev]

chump change for DN.

[PairTheBoard]

DN bought in for 50k by most reports - although one poster claimed it was 47k.

DN ended with 117k.



PairTheBoard

[ipp147]

More quotes from neverwin's site,

Eugeneel.

[ QUOTE ]
o well, I have high confidence in this matchup being very profitable for us still, and so do the rest of us. Hopefully DN will be here tomorrow.

the norwegians played much better, and lost infinite in a few relatively short sessions. Ofcourse DC caught some cards in those matches so all I'm saying is that 68k loss is nothing and no one is planning to pull the plug for another 400k or maybe more.

I'm running very bad lately, down 100k in last 3 days. Losing about half myself and half on others' play but not upset about it at all for some reason. Feel like no mistakes have been made on my part except todays match against some swedish player who played very well on ub.

[/ QUOTE ]

RayDekargni (I assume dreamclown)

[ QUOTE ]
Lagerborg is a far better HU LHE player than Negreanu. DN and I are about even at this point swings-wise; running two pair is running two pair. But Negreanu is a rag doll. Neverwin will champion DN (since I have criticized Neverwin for being overrated), and then make himself out to be the king who intercedes and 'dominates' both. I am not interested in staging dramatic games of limit hold'em. I am always here. I will play Neverwin any time 500-1k, soon as he buys in. And I will surely play DN more, starting tomorrow night, if he holds to his word.

Who would I prefer to play? Negreanu by a mile.

Also, I busted Lager from pokerroom. I outplayed him. But I also ran pretty good against him. So despite taking over 300k from him, I'd still chose Negreanu over him as my hu opponent. It is possible to lose 68k to an easy, transparent player at 500-1k. If Lager had Negreanu's cards I probably would have lost between 80 and 100k.

Few of you birds ever see past the short term and the drama to estimate an edge. But, hey, that's why we love you.


[/ QUOTE ]

[thatpfunk]

this has absolutely nothing to do with this match, but at what point (BBs wise), regardless of how you feel you are playing vs the opponent, do you stop playing them HU? 400bbs? more? an infinite amount if you still feel you have an edge?

there are so many factors to HU hold em, i find this intriguing.

[hicherbie]

http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journa...&amp;ucat=&amp; (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&amp;id=1135785159&amp;archi ve=&amp;start_from=&amp;ucat=&amp;)

[adi]

[ QUOTE ]
http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journa...&amp;ucat=&amp; (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&amp;id=1135785159&amp;archi ve=&amp;start_from=&amp;ucat=&amp;)

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
When I was 23, I was 172% certain that nobody could possibly play better than I did or know more about poker than me. I was young, fearless, naive, and falsely invincible.

It's a pretty common trait amongst young players honestly, especially those born in the U.S . I've come across several 20 "somthings" from Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, that would rip through the boastful American youth, and do it with an aura of maturity, discipline, and skill that I've never come across before. Those kids totally amaze me.

[/ QUOTE ]


hmmm....

[Clayton]

I'm American and I see nothing wrong with his statement. Obv. a small sample, but comparing groups like GCC to Looptroop's group of scandinavians shows a stark contrast in attitude.

[obsidian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journa...&amp;ucat=&amp; (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&amp;id=1135785159&amp;archi ve=&amp;start_from=&amp;ucat=&amp;)

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
When I was 23, I was 172% certain that nobody could possibly play better than I did or know more about poker than me. I was young, fearless, naive, and falsely invincible.

It's a pretty common trait amongst young players honestly, especially those born in the U.S . I've come across several 20 "somthings" from Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, that would rip through the boastful American youth, and do it with an aura of maturity, discipline, and skill that I've never come across before. Those kids totally amaze me.

[/ QUOTE ]


hmmm....

[/ QUOTE ]
That makes no sense when most of these young pros play on the internet. What is stopping them from ripping through the "boastful American youth?"

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journa...&amp;ucat=&amp; (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&amp;id=1135785159&amp;archi ve=&amp;start_from=&amp;ucat=&amp;)

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
When I was 23, I was 172% certain that nobody could possibly play better than I did or know more about poker than me. I was young, fearless, naive, and falsely invincible.

It's a pretty common trait amongst young players honestly, especially those born in the U.S . I've come across several 20 "somthings" from Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, that would rip through the boastful American youth, and do it with an aura of maturity, discipline, and skill that I've never come across before. Those kids totally amaze me.

[/ QUOTE ]


hmmm....

[/ QUOTE ]
That makes no sense when most of these young pros play on the internet. What is stopping them from ripping through the "boastful American youth?"

[/ QUOTE ]

they are.

you know those threads that say "why are there so mnay scandinavians finishing up high in the xxxx tourneys" or "playing in the xxx games"?

you have to remeber that Sweden only has about 10m people, and Norway and Denmark even fewer. the amount of young kids making it big out of these areas is amazing.

[clem]

They are playing right now.

[charga04]

Wait, so is dreamclown negreneau?? cuxz right now dreamclown is playin kidpoker on pokerroom.com.... dream started w 50k, kid with 100k

[LazyRobot]

Kidpoker is Daniel

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journa...&amp;ucat=&amp; (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&amp;id=1135785159&amp;archi ve=&amp;start_from=&amp;ucat=&amp;)

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
When I was 23, I was 172% certain that nobody could possibly play better than I did or know more about poker than me. I was young, fearless, naive, and falsely invincible.

It's a pretty common trait amongst young players honestly, especially those born in the U.S . I've come across several 20 "somthings" from Finland, Sweden, and Denmark, that would rip through the boastful American youth, and do it with an aura of maturity, discipline, and skill that I've never come across before. Those kids totally amaze me.

[/ QUOTE ]


hmmm....

[/ QUOTE ]

You forgot this part:
"There is a lot of talk about who the best online players are today, and the truth is, most of us have no clue who they are and that's the way they'd like to keep it, while they build multi-million dollar bankrolls online."

DN doesn't know who they are, but somehow he is sure they are Swedish or some other non-North American country? Must be there poor internet connections that give them away.

[charga04]

this match has just reminded me of y i quit playing limit poker,,.... wayyyy to boring and fishy`

[charga04]

but im still lol @Dreamclown gettin 0wned

[sweetjazz]

the trash talk has begun...woo hoo

[SuperJez]

Just logged on to watch this guys...any reason they are sitting out?

[charga04]

DN is taking a 10 minute food break after beating DC on a J4577 board with K7 vs AJ for like 12k

[SuperJez]

OK thanks dude

[geormiet]

This is draining to watch.

[mmbt0ne]

It's amazing how DC doesn't stop talking, and DN doesn't stop winning.

[Clayton]

who started w what?

[mmbt0ne]

DN ~100k
DC ~50k, then reloaded another 50k (maybe 40k)

DC made a nice comeback after the reload.

[A_C_Slater]

WTF? 16,000+ players online at FCP? Am I to believe his site is bigger than UB or Paradise already?

[daryn]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF? 16,000+ players online at FCP? Am I to believe his site is bigger than UB or Paradise already?

[/ QUOTE ]

that also includes players from pokerroom and eurobet, and other skins i think

[Eric Stoner]

[ QUOTE ]
WTF? 16,000+ players online at FCP? Am I to believe his site is bigger than UB or Paradise already?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a skin for the Poker Network...Poker Room, Hollywood, Eurobet, etc...

[sweetjazz]

What was the result of tonight's match?

[cokehead]

I think DN finished up about 6k. He was up a lot more, but DC made a comeback.

[Eric Stoner]

When I left at the first hour, Daniel was handing it to him pretty good - either Dreamclown was being outplayed and/or the deck hit DN...in any case, Dreamclown was down quite a bit.

When I returned, in the last hour or so, they were about even...I guess Dreamclown bought in for more. When Daniel was up about $6K, he said that four hours were enough and left - much smack talking ensued on both sides though. Dreamclown clearly thinks he is still the better player.

[daryn]

i don't know why dreamclown feels the need to talk POST GAME smack. he thinks he's the better player, great. just say, gg daniel, play tomorrow?

[HavanaBanana]

Small wiener syndrome perhaps.

Agreed on gg, next game pls.

ToT

[AllIn3High]

[ QUOTE ]
I think DN finished up about 6k. He was up a lot more, but DC made a comeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they played HU for 4 hours and DN only won 6BB?

I missed the match but isn't that a pretty good comeback if DN really was hit by the deck and was up &gt;60BB at one point?

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think DN finished up about 6k. He was up a lot more, but DC made a comeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they played HU for 4 hours and DN only won 6BB?

I missed the match but isn't that a pretty good comeback if DN really was hit by the deck and was up &gt;60BB at one point?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.

[drewjustdrew]

Starting to remind me of the Kids In the Hall where the little guy keeps running into the guy's fist in the bar.

And as for the classy Nordics:

http://www.pokerpages.com/pokerinfo/tournamentgallery/wsop/mattias-andersson.jpg

"DAAAAAAAAAAA!"

[drewjustdrew]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think DN finished up about 6k. He was up a lot more, but DC made a comeback.

[/ QUOTE ]

So they played HU for 4 hours and DN only won 6BB?

I missed the match but isn't that a pretty good comeback if DN really was hit by the deck and was up &gt;60BB at one point?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think these were two different sessions. So he made 67 or 70 BBs the first session and another 6 the 2nd session. At least thats what I gather from the timing of these posts.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know why dreamclown feels the need to talk POST GAME smack. he thinks he's the better player, great. just say, gg daniel, play tomorrow?

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe he's making sure the next game happens.

[Steve Giufre]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi pair:

It's always been my opinion that when your stack gets low you're actually at an advantage since you can go all-in and get crorrect odds on otherwise bad calls. Yes, I'm aware that there are disdvantages as well to being short on chips, but in my opinion this one advantage outweighs everything else. So perhaps it's possible that Dream Cloud thinks the same way and that's why he wanted Negreanu to buy-in again.

best wishes,
Mason

[/ QUOTE ]

Where were you when some of us were trying to tell this to Lee Jones in his Pokers Stars thread about the 1k buy in amount for the 100-200 game?

[Ryan11]

did DN play him before the 60something score? Anyone know the running total todate?

[cokehead]

on FCP they say DN is up about 38k total after all of the matches

[Mr. Now]

How can he declare victory if he is up only 38 big bets ?

DN Blog Post About beating DreamClown (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-journal.php?subaction=showfull&amp;id=1135785159&amp;archi ve=&amp;start_from=&amp;ucat=&amp;)
?...So far, I really haven’t faced the best online. Dreamclown is a talented young player, but he is hard headed and is simply destined to go broke. His fundamentals are so flawed that he could never overcome it with his excellent pre-flop play."

[Eric Stoner]

I'm with you, but the way that Dreamclown speaks about destorying Daniel Negreanu in heads up limit poker, the truth is, Dreamclown is down.

But is this "results oriented thinking", or is it like a soap opera that I can't pull myself away from?

"From the sands of the hour glass, these are the Days of Our Lives "

or is it more like WWE? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[TylerD]

DN is back, but is playing TinFoilHat, is this one of the the DC collective?

[ben_]

Back where?
Is it not viewable in eurobet?

[TylerD]

Private Tables

[TylerD]

[ QUOTE ]
DN is back, but is playing TinFoilHat, is this one of the the DC collective?

[/ QUOTE ]

evidently not as he is now playing Dreamclown.

[Clayton]

not yet, DN is sitting out at the moment

[ben_]

Cheers.

[Clayton]

okay its started

DC sitting with 50k
DN sitting with 100k

[Clayton]

Seat 3: KidPoker ($102,745.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($47,248 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards 5S,3C,KS ]
KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

TURN [board cards 5S,3C,KS,AH ]
KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards 5S,3C,KS,AH,9S ]
KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ AC,AD ]
Dreamclown mucks cards [ 5D,6S ]
KidPoker wins $9,999.

[Clayton]

Seat 3: KidPoker ($104,243.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($45,745 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
KidPoker posts blind ($250), Dreamclown posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
KidPoker bets $750, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards 8S,7H,AH ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $500.

TURN [board cards 8S,7H,AH,QH ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $2,000, Dreamclown folds.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker wins $8,999.
SUMMARY
Dealer: KidPoker
Pot: $9,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, bets $5,000, collects $8,999, net $3,999
Dreamclown, loses $4,000

[Clayton]

DN up 20k early

[Clayton]

Seat 3: KidPoker ($123,233 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($26,738.50 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
KidPoker posts blind ($250), Dreamclown posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
KidPoker bets $750, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards JS,3D,5C ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $500.

TURN [board cards JS,3D,5C,JD ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker checks.

RIVER [board cards JS,3D,5C,JD,QH ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
Dreamclown shows [ 2C,6S ]
KidPoker shows [ 10S,KH ]
KidPoker wins $5,999.

[MyTurn2Raise]

what did they buy in for?
I see DN at 117k and DC at 32k

[Clayton]

DN - 100k
DC - 50k

im gone, off to hooters, have fun watchin :O

[MyTurn2Raise]

I'd rather be at hooters

[astroglide]

fyi if you create an acct at fullcontactpoker you can watch cash games, no deposit necessary

[TylerD]

daniel dropped a few "lolololol" but i missed the hands, anyone catch them?

[astroglide]

Texas Hold'em $500-$1000 (real money), #1,647,201,563
Table Dreamclown's HE, 29 Dec 2005 7:16 PM ET
Seat 3: KidPoker ($112,220.50 in chips)
Seat 8: Dreamclown ($37,724 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
KidPoker posts blind ($250), Dreamclown posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
KidPoker bets $750, Dreamclown calls $500.

FLOP [board cards 6S,9S,9D ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $500, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $500.

TURN [board cards 6S,9S,9D,7C ]
Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker bets $2,000, Dreamclown bets $2,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards 6S,9S,9D,7C,8H ]
Dreamclown checks, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
KidPoker shows [ QD,7D ]
Dreamclown mucks cards [ 2D,7S ]
KidPoker wins $11,999.
SUMMARY
Dealer: KidPoker
Pot: $12,000, (including rake: $1)
KidPoker, bets $6,000, collects $11,999, net $5,999
Dreamclown, loses $6,000

[Victor]

dn raises, dc calls

flop is 7d7x4d. dc crs and calls a 3bet.

turn is 2. dc crs and 4bets.

river is k. dc bets and dn calls.

dc shows 58 and dn wins with a2d

[astroglide]

ok so DC plays 100% of his hands, always raises preflop, and never reraises when raised.

what does he do when somebody open-limps?

[Spook]

daniel raises preflop, folds on AK2 flop,
DC shows 27. great, I am sure that now makes him a lifetime winner with that hand.

[Spook]

DC reloads 40K

and now DC is insulting daniel by calling him Hellmuth.

daniel comes back with "little boy, you have nice nipples, yes?"

[Yeti]

DN : i know what i'm doing kid maybe one day i'll teach you
DN : maybe you can win my protoge program, lol

Ok, now that was funny.

[MyTurn2Raise]

for those that care
_________________
DN: lol
DN: i pwn you
DC: you're a fish
DN: a fish with clown cash lol
DC: maybe if you play longer than 3 hours tonight that'll chance
DN: Im WAY too advanced for you son
DC: ;(
DC: hahahahahaha
DC: keep calling down 8 high unrelated out of position, rd
DC: pipsqueak
DN: im driving a 10 speed
DN: you have 1 gear i have 104
DC: but your 9 other gears involve the hands 8 high through j high right?
DN: all kinds, too advanced for you to understand
DC: hahahha
DC: IF YOU SAY SO, HELLMUTH
DN: did Hellmuth beat you silly too or something?
DC: you play and talk like Hellmuth
DC: hahaahah vwp w/ that 5 dn
DC: typetypetype
DN: little boy, you have nice nipples yes? LOL
DN: man I play so good... one day kid, I'll teach you and wont charge you 50k
DC: just don't bust from here first or else you might seen as nothing more than a self-promoting fish
DC: ;(
DC: vwp daniel
DN: don't you understand that your trash talk makes you look foolish when you always lost?
DC: always lose??
DC: hahahaha, play me longer than 3 hours and i bust you
DC: why did you run off last night, daniel, speaking of 3 hours
DN: im here now no? sorry, I actually have alife lol
DC: didn't you post that you weren't going out so you could play
DN: i did play
DC: wow you really think in the long term huh
DC: hahahahaahahahaha
DN: i know what I' doin' kid, one day I'll teach you
DN: mayber you can win my protoge program lol
DC: HEY FISH, HOW MANY TIMES ARE YOU GOING TO TELL ME YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING
DC: hahahaha
DC: the 8 highs speak for themselves
DN: too advanced and too sexy for you lol...
DC: how tall are you daniel
DC: sry wrong chat
DC: WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
DC: ;(
DC: ;(
DC: BAHAAHHAHAA
DC: you're playing like a champ
DC: talk about making me pay
DN: so far today you paid 40k lol

[astroglide]

from casual observation, it looks like DC is grossly overplaying the turn

[MyTurn2Raise]

DN: Justice baby yeah!!!!!! LOL
DN: so much about this game you hjaven't learned yet
DC: keep informing you fans, fish
DC: just don't bust, cause that'd send the wrong message
DN: if you weren't so stubborn you'd be a good player
DC: hmmm, i take that into account
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
DN: history that hand andf youll learn something
DC: i already know it's a 76
DN: spades
DC: WOW WHAT A RIV
DC: SRY BUD
DN: LOL LOL
DN: gotcha punk
DC: does that mean that's the one you bluffed me
DC: in 5 sessions?
DC: since you announced that you had my 5 high flush draw beat?
DN: thats it yup... no need to bluff you, you play so bad
DC: daniel tell the fans how you played your full house
DN: rule 1: if thou bluffest a bad player thou becomes one
DC: well guys i just smooth called the flop
DC: you've tried to bluff me many many times already
DN: 1 sec

[spamhead]

Looks like DN is showing the guy winners, not bluffing much, and folding his bad hands.

Things you do against someone you consider an inferior opponent.

[Yeti]

Cap flop, check fold turn.

Standard, yeah?

[tongni]

DN is really holding over him.

[sweetjazz]

This was pretty funny:

DC: 89 daniel?
DN: nope
DN: only up 56 right now LOL

[MyTurn2Raise]

DN: lucky on the turn you got there
DC: 84 got there on the turn?
DN: 9-10
DC: dizzy little fish
DN: does your mother know you are gambling this high?
DC: hahhhahahah
DC: you are awful
DN: cmon that was a good one
DC: well it was painless
DN: give me credit for that, that was funny lol
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
DC: i'm criticizing you for not raising
DC: not for calling w/ a gutshot
DC: rd
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
DN: i loove taking criticism from a guy that is whining about how lucky I am lol
DC: r
DC: d
DN: everytime I flop top set you cap it lol
DC: then do i make the turn laydown?
DN: first time kid
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
DC: r
DC: d
DN: dishcloth
DC: fish
DN: lol
DC: you're always laughing out loud aren't you daniel
DN: this fish is swimming with YOUR money HAHAHAHAHHAH
DC: you love to say that after you spill infinite
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
DC: 89 daniel?
DN: nope
DN: only up 56 right now LOL
DC: when you check 9 high in position and turn an open ender, you may want to splash around with it
DC: which can be costly
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
DC: you're going to spill off all your lead
DN: i play so good, don't you think?
DC: like you did last time
DC: no, you cease to hit running two pair, then self-destruct
DN: 5 min break to eat
DC: ok
DN: and to bask in the glory of pwning you
DC: i'll be sending hand histories across the internet
DC: /images/graemlins/frown.gif
-------------------------------------------


I'd love hand histories with commentary-might be a good thread

[La Brujita]

Reading this chat I'm starting to root for DN.

[MyTurn2Raise]

Daniel leaves at 8:26 EST up 54k or so

sits back in about 3 minutes later with same chip counts

[HavanaBanana]

Nice to follow the game, and would be interesting to know who you guys are rooting for so made a poll /images/graemlins/smile.gif

ToT

[Eric Stoner]

[ QUOTE ]
Reading this chat I'm starting to root for DN.

[/ QUOTE ]

From the junk I read from DC yesterday (and today, thanks), I'm pulling for DN too.

[TylerD]

dn leaves up 20K.

[ben_]

oh dear. Seems DC was on a come back and DN decides to leave.

[Eric Stoner]

You know, I don't get this clown. He had to reload, DN says enough, and then DC flips calling him a peasant....and other stuff will most likely be said.

Incredible...

[ggbman]

I am pretty offput by Daniel's playing for smallish wins and then quitting citing "internet law". It seemed pretty evident that he just wanted to leave to preserve a win. I think they should agree to play for a certain amount of time beforehand.

[MyTurn2Raise]

Dreamclown went on a run...Negreanu is up $19,883 and looks to be bolting much to the chagrin of Dreamclown
Dreamclown's pissed that DN's leaving so quickly
disparraging comments both ways of course

[tongni]

Wow, that's just pathetic.

[Mansavage]

It was DC that originally said he could do what he wanted when DN wouldn't reload the first time they played. I think that this turnabout is fair play.

[Yeti]

&lt;KidPoker&gt; when he is gaining confidence, its always a good time to put a stop to it....I know what Im doing

[skp]

Judging by some of the chat, they are both immature retards. Why would anyone want to cheer for either one?

[Prevaricator]

[ QUOTE ]
Judging by some of the chat, they are both immature retards. Why would anyone want to cheer for either one?

[/ QUOTE ]

to root against the other.

[sightless]

[ QUOTE ]
Judging by some of the chat, they are both immature retards. Why would anyone want to cheer for either one?

[/ QUOTE ]

One of them is is more of an immature retard then the other?

[Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
&lt;KidPoker&gt; when he is gaining confidence, its always a good time to put a stop to it....I know what Im doing

[/ QUOTE ]

^ /images/graemlins/heart.gif

[tolbiny]

[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty offput by Daniel's playing for smallish wins and then quitting citing "internet law". It seemed pretty evident that he just wanted to leave to preserve a win. I think they should agree to play for a certain amount of time beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its pretty clear that DN is a little more in control than DC- more maturity (despite the chat). Why would he give up part of his advantage- ie knowing when the other guy is playing his best, when he feels uncomfortable. He left the game a winner.

[spamhead]

They are back at it. Looks like both bought in for $100K this time.

[Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am pretty offput by Daniel's playing for smallish wins and then quitting citing "internet law". It seemed pretty evident that he just wanted to leave to preserve a win. I think they should agree to play for a certain amount of time beforehand.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the beginning, DN was putting a clinic and hitting cards and it seemed (to me anyways) that DC was getting a little frustrated and overplaying some hands as a result.

When DC got on a nice run though, he probabl got his confidence back so I can def. see DN's rationale in stopping. It's not about preserving a win, it's about playing DC when DC is most likely to spew.

[wisehandpoker]

wow, that sf hurt

[geormiet]

DN paused a long time on the turn, DC insta bet both turn and river.


ANTES/BLINDS
Dreamclown posts blind ($250), KidPoker posts blind ($500).

PRE-FLOP
Dreamclown bets $750, KidPoker calls $500.

FLOP [board cards KH,4C,2H ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $500, KidPoker bets $1,000, Dreamclown calls $500.

TURN [board cards KH,4C,2H,9S ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

RIVER [board cards KH,4C,2H,9S,8H ]
KidPoker checks, Dreamclown bets $1,000, KidPoker calls $1,000.

SHOWDOWN
Dreamclown shows [ 5C,6C ]
KidPoker shows [ QD,6D ]
KidPoker wins $7,999.

[sightless]

DN is up again it seems

[ggbman]

DC is on a nice run and has been outplaying Daniel for the last 20 minutes.

[gonores]

I started watching this maybe 15 minutes ago, but it looks neck and neck to me so far. A lot of straightforward play. DC is winning more pots without showdown, but Kid is extracting a ton of value. I haven't seen a bluff get picked off since I started watching.

[sweetjazz]

DC turns trips OOP and pulls a screwplay on the river...less than 10 hands later, DN turns trips OOP and pulls a screwplay on the river.

[Spook]

hand history? or how was Clayton posting them? I can't see them myself.

[Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
hand history? or how was Clayton posting them? I can't see them myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

its like pokerstars, click the stuff in the top left of the window where it says last hand. then a window opens up n such

[Clayton]

so how much longer until DC quits DN? This is the fourth session in a row I think where Daniel has left a decent winner.

[sweetjazz]

How much did Daniel leave with this time?

I turn around for one second to get something in the kitchen and he's gone.

[Grisgra]

Daniel left up 25k. Just split, too, without so much as an adios. Of course, DC seems like a douche, so this is probably should not come as a surprise.

[Ryan11]

They should both just buy in for 50k a session and play till one is broke.

[sweetjazz]

It's not worth reading too much into the results so far, as the sample is too small to be significant. But there are a couple of interesting observations that come to mind so far:

* Assuming that these heads up matches continue for several more sessions, what is DN's plan for the likely possibility that he plays most of a session down to DC? Even if DN has an edge, he should still end up in a deep hole every so often just due to variance. Will he choose to quit or try to keep going until he gets close to even?

* The main difference in their styles seems to me to be that DC tries to steal more hands and use his aggressive image to milk value out of his really strong hands, while DN is a bit more selective which hands he gets aggressive with, but he sometimes gives up value in order to catch bluffs.

* Regardless of who you think is better, both players seem to truly think they have a significant edge. (Perhaps both players feel certain that they could beat the other for at least 0.5 BB/100 in the long run?) And these are two of the top 1% (0.1%?) of poker players, in terms of success they have had. Given that one (or both) of them must be significantly wrong, I think that shows how complex limit HE is. The short-term variance makes it hard to discern the best long-term strategy.

[sweetjazz]

Also:

* How does the DC team decide when enough is enough? It may not come to that, as their bankroll can easily withstand losses for quite a while to come. Still, does everybody on the team have to think they have an edge for them to keep playing? Or just the person who is playing DN?

I also don't understand quite how they "share" a bankroll, if that is what they do. It would seem that, legally, the money in a given account can only belong to a single person. It sounds like their arrangement involves the team members trusting each other very much. I wonder how that dynamic affects things when the team runs bad or, as some have suggested about this match, make long-term losing gambles.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
It may not come to that, as their bankroll can easily withstand losses for quite a while to come.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you know what their bankroll is?

[sweetjazz]

Yeah I guess I should be more careful in how phrase things. I suspect that their bankroll can withstand quite a bit more.

I don't know for sure, but I have heard that they have ~400K on their pokerroom account, and I would assume that they have money elsewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a bankroll that is close to a million.

Given that there are four of them on the team (right?) and that DC seems to be at the pokerroom table 24 hours a day, they certainly seem capable of logging the hours to build up a substantial bankroll.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
I have heard that they have ~400K on their pokerroom account

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no idea what these guys have. but since they started playing $500/$1000, DN is up close to $95K?

I think losing 25% of your roll is a big deal

-coming from a guy who lose 10% of his today /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sweetjazz]

Kneel I think that their roll is bigger than that, but that's just based on hearsay.

I lost 33% of my roll during an extreme run of bad cards and probably a fair amount of suboptimal play earlier this month. /images/graemlins/smile.gif It worked out okay though -- I moved down and now my roll is back above where it was before my downswing, I am back playing at the limit where I hit my downswing, and I feel like I have made significant improvements to my game.

So hang in there, play your A game, and your roll will be fine. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[LLKOOLK1]

I agree. If this kid was as good as he says he is, he would just keep his mouth shut and win DNs $$$$...I dont think hes tilting DN with this trash talk, an from the session I watched it seems as though DN is really beating on him and playin complety to teach this kid a lesson, more so then win $$$...I have a feeling DC will tak a preety big hit here beofre he decides to tuck his tail and go.
-LL

[MyTurn2Raise]

do you know any 23 year olds near the pinnacle of their sport/job who keep there mouth shut?

They are few and far between

[LLKOOLK1]

This is true. And i just watched DC empty neverwin for about 20K pretty quick...the kid is defintly tough
-LL

[Clayton]

[ QUOTE ]
from the session I watched it seems as though DN is really beating on him and playin complety to teach this kid a lesson, more so then win $$$

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, thats it.

[ELGCC]

dont worry we have enough $ to play these stakes. If we had only a mil we would probably not play 500-1k

Also, we do not share bankrolls, we just take 4ths of the action when it's 500-1000 and sometimes take pieces on the 3-6 game on ub.

-E


If we thought we had a .5bb/hr advantage on DN we would not play him. The advantage is much much higher. Just give it some time

[TomHimself]

gl, i am rooting for u to win.
welcome to the forums

[sweetjazz]

E: Thanks for the clarification. The short term results don't prove anything, so I am interested to see what develops as these matches continue.

But I find it very interesting that both your team and DN think you have a significant edge. At least one of you is very wrong, and if the edge turns out to be small either way, then I think it will be fair to say you are both quite wrong.

[prana]

At first I thought I was just cheering for DC because DN always has come across to me as the stereotypical person in high school that talked as much smack as they could yet never backed it. Ex. The guys in your school that seemed gay, used that to hit on girls and cockblocked everyone else but acted like a little girl when confronted.

Now this may or may not be true but it's my impression so far. I may be wrong as I have NEVER met or hung out with DN but he just seems to have an aura of shadiness around him.

Regardless of whether or not DN was close to me as in being my relative or something, I am rooting for DC because of a few facts.

1. Noone other than you fellow 2+2 jedis give any credence to variance in this battle. I have lost more BB's against obviously worse players in as many hands and came back to have said roommates pay rent for multiple months. I honestly think DN is getting outplayed.

2. I give this/these guys/persons much respect for taking a few losses(actually not at all big in BB terms but huge in actual $$$ at least compared to my current budget which effects mind state) and continued to ascertain that they have an advantage. It takes steel cojones because he is not putting up a hundred or two or even a grand. These guys are confident enough to be sitting still at the table with 50,000 waiting for challengers.

All I have seen from other forums is hilarious. FCP -everyone is a fish except for DN. NWP - both DN and DC are fish waiting for Neverwin to clean them both out. All this over such a horribly small sample size it's just another form of Days of Our Lives for the poker aficionados. I do think this kid/these kids have skills to pay the bills and I would love to see huge egos crushed whether it be DN or DC.

[Malcriado]

[ QUOTE ]


If we thought we had a .5bb/hr advantage on DN we would not play him. The advantage is much much higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a funny guy.

[Daniel Negreanu]

Dreamclown uses the following strategy religiously;

- Raises 100% of hands on button
- Calls 100% of hands in BB (never 3 bets)
- Bets 98% of hands when checked to on flop


Interesting, but not optimal by any means. If he continues to play this way, he simply can't win against the better players.

I have told him this, but he is a young kid, very stubborn and wouldn't listen anyway. He is convinced it's the way to go.

As for the trash talk, this game is about money. You do, and say what you need to in order to increase the likelihood that he will steam.

This all started because he quit me twice after playing for 8 minutes each time. He said he wouldn't play a short stacked player. Then came by blog, then came a spanking or two.

The last two times I played him for about 2 hours each time and quit without notice. I would never do that to someone I respect. Dreamclown has made it clear that it's all about the money to him. I owe him nothing.

On another note, something Mason said surprised me, saying that a short stack would have an advantage. However, that isn't the case.

If I had 99,000 and my opponent has 1,000 playing $5000$1000, on the very next hand it's akin to both of us having $1,000 in front of us. Both players will put it all in, and it would be precisely a 50-50 situation.

A short stack CANNOT have an edge, because he would be playing against an EQUALLY short stack anytime he played a hand.

Also, I am playing the matches at www.fullcontactpoker.com (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com) and you can watch them if you have a real money account.

[Victor]

hi danny,

i love you and think you are the best player eva. please whup on this internet punk and make him realize he is a piece of trash.

thank you
kind regards
your modest protege?

[MontyBurns]

does it go without saying that if the match were played in person DC would have essentially zero chance of coming out ahead over a significant number of hands? how would you adjust any edge DN has online to a B&amp;M setting?

[Jay.]

Moderator(s) notified
Moderator(s) notified In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.

i win.

[MattSuspect]

[ QUOTE ]
Moderator(s) notified
Moderator(s) notified In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.

i win.

[/ QUOTE ]

We cannot proceed.

The moderator has already been notified about this post.

Please use your back button to return to the previous page.

/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[roy_miami]

[ QUOTE ]
Dreamclown uses the following strategy religiously;

- Raises 100% of hands on button
- Calls 100% of hands in BB (never 3 bets)
- Bets 98% of hands when checked to on flop


Interesting, but not optimal by any means. If he continues to play this way, he simply can't win against the better players.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think his strategy of raising 100% on the button and betting every flop is horrendous. I suck at heads up and I think I would beat the clown easily if he continued to never deviate from this strategy.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
does it go without saying that if the match were played in person DC would have essentially zero chance of coming out ahead over a significant number of hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

why would you think this is true?

[MontyBurns]

I'm assuming DC has little to no B&amp;M experience being 23. I could be wrong. But considering DN grinded his way up in casino's before there was internet poker I would think his in-person reading skills would be significantly sharper than DC.

[KINGOFINLAND]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I am playing the matches at www.fullcontactpoker.com (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com) and you can watch them if you have a real money account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sir, you are a money making machine. Not long after opening your site, you have set up a big battle against online "superstar" and there is lot of discussion about the match on every forum. Even in finnish poker forums.

I suppose at this point it won't matter if you won or lose, as you will get the moneys back with huge intrest anyway because of all the players joining FCP.

Well done.

KING

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming DC has little to no B&amp;M experience being 23. I could be wrong. But considering DN grinded his way up in casino's before there was internet poker I would think his in-person reading skills would be significantly sharper than DC.

[/ QUOTE ]

They might be, but we don't know that Dreamclown would be giving off tells for DN to read.

FWIW, DN is at a disadvantage online because of the pace of the game. Online there is no down time between hands to recover from bad beats, etc. so the tilt factor can be huge. This shouldn't be a disadvantage to DN, but it could be.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
On another note, something Mason said surprised me, saying that a short stack would have an advantage. However, that isn't the case.

If I had 99,000 and my opponent has 1,000 playing $5000$1000, on the very next hand it's akin to both of us having $1,000 in front of us. Both players will put it all in, and it would be precisely a 50-50 situation.

A short stack CANNOT have an edge, because he would be playing against an EQUALLY short stack anytime he played a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

He might not have an edge overall, but if he's a worse player, his overall disadvantage would lesson, no? That was probably what Mason was referring to. If DC thought he was better than you (which he clearly does, which is highly amusing), it made sense for him to sit out until you deposited more money so that his edge remained the same.

Anyway, continue to kick his ass!

[Schneids]

Daniel,

Please act like a "classy pro," or stop touting yourself as one, because it's making you look silly and foolish.

Just because Jimmy threw a snowball at Johnny doesn't mean Danny can throw a snowball too.

It is ridiculous how you make these pompous claims about how a pro should act, then say you don't need to act that way to DC.

What are you? A classy pro? Or has a 23 yr old really gotten underneath your skin that much?

[skp]

My thoughts are the same. I am quite disappointed in Daniel's behaviour. One would expect much much better from a guy as smart and as seemingly personable as Daniel.

Imagine that ESPN or whoever hires Daniel to be their color commentator for the next big televised tourney. They then do a feature for us entitled "Meet the real Daniel" wherein they go on to tell the world about his exchanges with this Dreamcloud (sic) character (all dressed up of course to make it interesting TV).

Momma Negreanu ain't gonna be too proud of her son.

Daniel, you could be one helluva great ambassador for the game of poker. Please eschew the WWF style behaviour.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts are the same. I am quite disappointed in Daniel's behaviour. One would expect much much better from a guy as smart and as seemingly personable as Daniel.

Imagine that ESPN or whoever hires Daniel to be their color commentator for the next big televised tourney. They then do a feature for us entitled "Meet the real Daniel" wherein they go on to tell the world about his exchanges with this Dreamcloud (sic) character (all dressed up of course to make it interesting TV).

Momma Negreanu ain't gonna be too proud of her son.

Daniel, you could be one helluva great ambassador for the game of poker. Please eschew the WWF style behaviour.

[/ QUOTE ]

During the last HU match, I saw very little trash-talking -- from either of them.

[Scott Y.]

[ QUOTE ]
On another note, something Mason said surprised me, saying that a short stack would have an advantage. However, that isn't the case.

If I had 99,000 and my opponent has 1,000 playing $5000$1000, on the very next hand it's akin to both of us having $1,000 in front of us. Both players will put it all in, and it would be precisely a 50-50 situation.

A short stack CANNOT have an edge, because he would be playing against an EQUALLY short stack anytime he played a hand.


[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't put enough thought into this myself, but it is not just Mason suggesting a short stack advantage in limit poker. I know at least Barry Greenstein agrees - he elaborates a little in this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&amp;Board=holdem&amp;Number=3035334&amp;Sea rchpage=1&amp;Main=3029808&amp;Words=limit+barryg1&amp;topic=&amp; Search=true#Post3035334).

[TheWorstPlayer]

that is multi-way.

[TheZodiac]

[ QUOTE ]
yes you need to have a real money account to view real money tables, UNLESS you go through negreanu's pokerroom skin at www.fullcontactpoker.com. (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com.) they let you watch there.

he says they're about to start in 5 minutes, so anyone who wants to watch hit up his site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you do not have to deposit to FCP to watch their matches. Just login to any PokerRoom skin and watch the fireworks ...I have a FCP account, but I noticed I could see the same tables from my Eurobet account including the HU table that DN &amp; DC were playing at. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[critikal]

I wasn't rooting for anyone at first, but now I'm rooting for DC. It seems like DN thinks that being ahead for the session automatically means that he is a better player. Also seems kinda annoying how he just leaves when DC goes on a rush and appears to retake a win. Looks like DN is afraid of booking a loss to keep his fans happy or something.

[kem]

[ QUOTE ]
dont worry we have enough $ to play these stakes. If we had only a mil we would probably not play 500-1k

Also, we do not share bankrolls, we just take 4ths of the action when it's 500-1000 and sometimes take pieces on the 3-6 game on ub.

-E


If we thought we had a .5bb/hr advantage on DN we would not play him. The advantage is much much higher. Just give it some time

[/ QUOTE ]

So you are a &gt; 0.5bb/hr advantage? What is that in bb/100? Because so far, looks like DN has won 73,233.50 in 2376 hands (link (http://fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forums/viewtopic.php?t=43372&amp;postdays=0&amp;postorder=asc&amp;sta rt=1840)). Works out to 3.08bb/100.

And if DN is really as much as a "ragdoll" as you say, you must realize that your variance goes down, right? Maybe if some of the crew are uncrunked at the moment, they can start trying to figure out how confident you guys really are...

Before these matches started, I'd have to say I was pulling for you. But I watched one, and you looked pretty dominated. Throw in the 5yr old behavior, and you weren't too impressive. But don't mind my opinion, just another railbird to ignore!

[TylerD]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Also, I am playing the matches at www.fullcontactpoker.com (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com) and you can watch them if you have a real money account.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sir, you are a money making machine. Not long after opening your site, you have set up a big battle against online "superstar" and there is lot of discussion about the match on every forum. Even in finnish poker forums.

I suppose at this point it won't matter if you won or lose, as you will get the moneys back with huge intrest anyway because of all the players joining FCP.

Well done.

KING

[/ QUOTE ]

i was waiting for someone to mention that. very shrewd move by dn IMO.

[Rosie5]

[ QUOTE ]
My thoughts are the same. I am quite disappointed in Daniel's behaviour. One would expect much much better from a guy as smart and as seemingly personable as Daniel.

Imagine that ESPN or whoever hires Daniel to be their color commentator for the next big televised tourney. They then do a feature for us entitled "Meet the real Daniel" wherein they go on to tell the world about his exchanges with this Dreamcloud (sic) character (all dressed up of course to make it interesting TV).

Momma Negreanu ain't gonna be too proud of her son.

Daniel, you could be one helluva great ambassador for the game of poker. Please eschew the WWF style behaviour.

[/ QUOTE ]

When you own your own television station, you can broadcast all the arguments on the internet that you want, but until then I doubt there's going to be a 60 minutes on dreamclown vs DN.

if you take banter on the internet as seriously as you sound like you do then step back for a minute please. They're just bsing. If you think THEIR poker table talk demeans poker then you should be petitioning the closure of most of the 2+2 forums because about a million more idiotic things have been said here

oh and if you didn't notice, the WSOP cover this year was 50% Zanyness and 50% poker. Whine to the producers at ESPN if you want to whine about class

[Zele]

[ QUOTE ]
Works out to 3.08bb/100

[/ QUOTE ]

More precisely, 3.08221801347bb/100.

[skp]

[ QUOTE ]
When you own your own television station, you can broadcast all the arguments on the internet that you want, but until then I doubt there's going to be a 60 minutes on dreamclown vs DN.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course not. DN can be thankful for that.

[ QUOTE ]
if you take banter on the internet as seriously as you sound like you do then step back for a minute please. They're just bsing. If you think THEIR poker table talk demeans poker then you should be petitioning the closure of most of the 2+2 forums because about a million more idiotic things have been said here


[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I only read about 5% of the posts on 2+2 because of all the goofy posts on here. But in any event, DN's place in the poker world is quite different from your average 2+2 poster. As I have already said, the guy is very smart, sports a great tournament record, and is actually quite personable and should strive to be an ambassador for poker. I would have thought that he was above such bsing. And if he were to engage in such bsing, one would think that he would try and be at least a little witty about it. The DN/DC dialogue that got posted in this thread is not witty in the least and is a just a notch above the "oh yeah...I did your mom last night" type of comments that one sees now and then when playing online.

[ QUOTE ]
oh and if you didn't notice, the WSOP cover this year was 50% Zanyness and 50% poker. Whine to the producers at ESPN if you want to whine about class

[/ QUOTE ]

Haven't seen any of the coverage. Besides, what makes you think I am whining? I like zaniness as much as the next guy but DN's behaviour that we are talking about is not zany - it's just juvenile.

[wheelz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yes you need to have a real money account to view real money tables, UNLESS you go through negreanu's pokerroom skin at www.fullcontactpoker.com. (http://www.fullcontactpoker.com.) they let you watch there.

he says they're about to start in 5 minutes, so anyone who wants to watch hit up his site.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually you do not have to deposit to FCP to watch their matches. Just login to any PokerRoom skin and watch the fireworks ...I have a FCP account, but I noticed I could see the same tables from my Eurobet account including the HU table that DN &amp; DC were playing at. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

they just changed it yesterday i think. bastards.

you can still view at another proom skin which i don't want to mention just in case they decide to do the same thing.

[worm33]

[ QUOTE ]
Daniel,

Please act like a "classy pro," or stop touting yourself as one, because it's making you look silly and foolish.

Just because Jimmy threw a snowball at Johnny doesn't mean Danny can throw a snowball too.

It is ridiculous how you make these pompous claims about how a pro should act, then say you don't need to act that way to DC.

What are you? A classy pro? Or has a 23 yr old really gotten underneath your skin that much?

[/ QUOTE ]


When this match started I was really cheering for Daniel, now I dont care...The most annoying part from daniel is the chat about how DC can't beat him and hes proven hes better. They have played like 6 total hours, and I keep seeing Daniel make 2 pair. Lets see what the match is like after 200 hours and then we can talk about how he owns him.

[freerollin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


If we thought we had a .5bb/hr advantage on DN we would not play him. The advantage is much much higher.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a funny guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

that is hilarious. to think that that they would "know" they have an edge that is "much much higher" on a world class player who has played successfully against the best players in the world just shows their arrogance and their ignorance. what are they basing their knowledge on? DN's television tournament appearances? LOL, i think they should keep their mouths shut, try to unstick themselves and realize that any edge they have would be slight, if at all, on someone with DN's experience.

and am i the only one who sees that DN's trash talk is being done for a reason? there's obviously some bad blood here and it's gotten personal. if the smack induces tilt and creates an edge, i'm sure DN would gladly take it. that's what it looks like to me and it looks like its working

[PokerPrince]

Off topic here, but I see you used the U.S. spelling of colour skp. Just wondering if you use that so as not to confuse americans or are you originally from the U.S.?

[skp]

Well, I did spend the '87/'88 college year in Toledo, Ohio...heh

Actually, I can never keep track of the US and Canadian spelling variants.

Same with dates: One version is 30/12/05 while the other is 12/30/05. Again, I have trouble remembering which is the US version and which is the Canadian. I just use them both interchangably.

The one thing I simply cannot understand is why our friends south of the border continue to eschew the metric system.

[Ryan11]

they are playing again right now

[Pov]

[ QUOTE ]
The one thing I simply cannot understand is why our friends south of the border continue to eschew the metric system.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're capitalists. We can sell twice as many tools this way.

[Clayton]

DC's up 30k right now.

[MyTurn2Raise]

did they start 100k v 50k?

for those watching later, it was negreanu sitting with 100k, Dreamclown with 50k

a few minutes of play reversed the positions